View Full Version : Joint Russian-US narcotic raid in Afghanistan
http://en.rian.ru/world/20101029/161131625.html
Interesting, didn't think this would actually happen.
Here is a clip from the raid ( Sorry but there is no English translation ).
http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=305257&cid=1
ProdigalSon
10-31-2010, 00:05
"Karzai says, 'Not so fast my friend.'"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11659814
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has criticised the first joint operation by Russian and US agents to destroy drug laboratories in his country. Mr Karzai said he had not been informed of Russia's participation - a sensitive issue in Afghanistan ever since the Soviet occupation ended 21 years ago. He called it a violation of Afghan sovereignty and international law. Russia said more than a tonne of heroin and opium, with a street value of $250m (£157m), was destroyed in the raid. Officials in Moscow have in the past accused coalition forces in Afghanistan of doing little to tackle drugs, and thereby helping to sustain the estimated 2.5 million heroin addicts in Russia.
'No authorisation'
Viktor Ivanov said that along with 932kg (2,055lb) of high-grade heroin and 156kg (345lb) of opium, a large amount of technical equipment was destroyed. But in a strongly worded statement on Saturday, President Karzai's office alleged that Russian military personnel had taken part in the "illegal" raid.
"While Afghanistan remains committed to its joint efforts with the international community against narcotics, it also makes it clear that no organisation or institution shall have the right to carry out such a military operation without prior authorisation and consent of the government of Afghanistan," it said. "Such unilateral operations are a clear violation of Afghan sovereignty as well as international law, and any repetition will be met by the required reaction from our side," the statement added. Mr Karzai said Afghanistan wanted friendly ties with Moscow, but that the relationship had to be based on mutual consent.
A senior source in the delegation of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who is currently on a visit to Vietnam, told the AFP news agency on Sunday that Kabul's reaction to the anti-drug operation was "simply surprising and incomprehensible" because "the Afghan interior ministry participated in this operation".
The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Kabul says Afghanistan's elite counter narcotics force did participate in the operation but it appears that the president's office was not informed of who would accompany them. Afghanistan's interior ministry said it thought that only Russian observers rather than Russian troops were to take part, our correspondent adds. The president's national security adviser, Rangin Dadfar Spanta, said Nato officials had apologised in private but that he wanted a public declaration.
On Friday, the head of Russia's drug control agency said its agents had taken part in an operation on Thursday to destroy a "major hub" of drug production about 5km (three miles) from the Pakistani border, near the city of Jalalabad.
Of course he is upset. Those are his laboratories. It would be funny if I was joking.
aegisnavy
10-31-2010, 16:07
From the RIA Novosti article:
' Ivanov said approximately 65% of Afghanistan's opium crops are grown in the Helmand Province, one of the most volatile regions in the country, adding that farmers make "around $70 a year by cultivating opium, much more than for growing wheat." '
I knew the farmers made very little, of course, but it is amazing to see how little.
"An estimated 90 percent of heroin consumed in Russia is trafficked from Afghanistan via Tajikistan and Uzbekistan."
I understand why Russia wants to be involved, but it seems like a very sharp two edged sword for ISAF/NATO/DEA efforts. An example of the strategic shift of the war, and the US efforts to mend relations with Russia.
greenberetTFS
10-31-2010, 16:14
Of course he is upset. Those are his laboratories. It would be funny if I was joking.
Dead right,that's exactly why he wasn't informed!................;)
Big Teddy :munchin
DevilSide
10-31-2010, 19:15
Why not grow more wheat to feed the people instead of growing opium to feed junkies? I know thats how alot of the farmers make their living but damn...think I already know the answer to that question anyway.
The Reaper
10-31-2010, 19:35
Why not grow more wheat to feed the people instead of growing opium to feed junkies? I know thats how alot of the farmers make their living but damn...think I already know the answer to that question anyway.
Tell you what, do a quick calculation of crop yield per acre times market price for wheat vs. opium and tell me why people there do not do as you suggest.
TR
Im not an expert here but isn't working with Russia in Afganistan a bit counterproductive to our goal of winning the trust of the Afgan people? I have no problems with the raid per say but come on folks we helped kick the Russians out of there in 1989 is our memory that short or does the pentagon and other people in the puzzle palace just that damn stupid?
A reasonable question, while there is likely latent sensitivity to Russian involvement, is it possible before we can win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people we need to curtail the power of the Taliban, and the poppy fields are their capital base?
If it is true 90% of the heroin consumed in Russian comes from this area their security and police forces are likely well informed and motivated allies against a common enemy. I wonder what percent of the financing and guerilla personnel for the Chechens and other breakaway republics Moscow is conflict with come from Afghanistan?
The world has also obviously changed since 1980, the Soviet Union is gone, along with the current threat for opportunistic Soviet expansion. In contrast Russia is struggling to retain population and congruency instead of sharing the fate of the Soviet Union. If republics in the Russian Federation continue to break away, or oil prices drop Russia is in deep kim chee.
mark46th
11-01-2010, 12:56
Maybe they can be persuaded to not grow opium. There are soil sterilants available for those that don't feel like cooperating.
If I had my way, I would load up every C130 in the inventory with Roundup then fly 'em in formation wing tip to wing tip down the Andes over any area the Coca plant is grown. Then, when they start complaining, I would tell them if we see one more coca plant growing, the next pass will have a 3 year soil sterilant. Screw the potato crop, too bad if you get hungry, do what we tell you or we will return....
aegisnavy
11-01-2010, 13:22
A quick Google search of TR's direction found that in 2008 wheat prices were increasing enough, due to drought and other factors, to cause some of the farmers to stop cultivating poppies and start growing wheat.
So, at least the economic factor for the farmer on the ground is within reason for the difference between dope and wheaties. On the other hand, when you make 50 bucks a year a 40% pay increase to 70 bucks is a huge motivator. In addition, there are obviously other motivating factors such as a tango's AK in your back.
Brings new meaning to the cliche "It's a rough row to hoe."
The Reaper
11-01-2010, 15:45
IMHO, wheat production is only really viable for large tracts and with mechanization.
It can be viable (barely) on smaller farms with extremely low labor costs, especially when there are penalties for growing poppies. A certain percentage of these farms will fail in any given year.
What does the farmer and his employees do when he fails?
TR
zuluzerosix
11-01-2010, 16:37
Tell you what, do a quick calculation of crop yield per acre times market price for wheat vs. opium and tell me why people there do not do as you suggest.
TR
Sir,
May we compare? The going rate for a pound of weed here in my town this season is roughly $2000 (outdoor) and $2300 -2400(indoor). Since the DA Merith Lintott (up for reelection) agreed not to prosecute cases involving 99 punds or less you can have that much-
99 lbs at $2K/lb=$198,000
99lbs at $2.4K=$237.6K
Many folks have suggested that pot growers switch to grapes. The math does not work for them.
If you grow indoors you can reasonably get up to 3 crops per year.
Here is something more realistic-
23 plants (indoor) this is the city ordinance limit
yield 1 lb per plan (conservative)
23 lbs at $55,200 x 3 crops = $165,600
The grower has chemical and soil expenses and he has to pay trimmers to trim the pot. Costs are probably about $10,000 per year.
What is not factored here, is the B Grade stuff, Buds too small to use or left over timmings and the stms and such that are used to make concentrate (Hash) that stuff can go for $500-$1000 per pound.
Of course where there is pot, there is cash, weapons and meth. We have problems with addiction, crime and violence.
Same problem, different part of the world. We need help.
Such is the People's Republik of kalifornia.
99 lbs at $2K/lb=$198,000
99lbs at $2.4K=$237.6K
Many folks have suggested that pot growers switch to grapes. The math does not work for them.
Man...sorry...Dude, that looks pretty good!
I would suggest that the "farmers" who are reluctant to switch to growing grapes watch a few episodes of the "old" HBO series "Oz". Scared Straight works!
zuluzerosix
11-01-2010, 18:28
Man...sorry...Dude, that looks pretty good!
I would suggest that the "farmers" who are reluctant to switch to growing grapes watch a few episodes of the "old" HBO series "Oz". Scared Straight works!
You don't quite understand the drug trade here. In my post, I stated that the DA will not prosecute cases involving less than 99 pounds. The growers are not afraid of the cops. Yes, there are seizures for the production of marijuanna
for sale, but you don't think these folks get hard time do you?
The wife of our public defender was caught for transporting a helluva lot of pot processed for retail sale. All she got was probation.
Many of the growers have better weapons, night vision and commo than the local LEO's. They pay police insiders for intelligence (and they pay well). They hire former soldiers to keep watch on their grow sites and for protection (and they pay well).
DevilSide
11-01-2010, 22:10
Tell you what, do a quick calculation of crop yield per acre times market price for wheat vs. opium and tell me why people there do not do as you suggest.
TR
I cant find anything on market price, but here is what I did find out.
Last year Afghanistan suffered a drought, and the wheat production fell about 55%. But this season was expected to rise in productions by 127% at 3.4 billion tons. But the crop yield for cannabis was 145Kg per hectare and the farmers get paid $40-95 million USD, and thats only 15% of whats paid for opium *$438 million
I'm not sure if the above is true, but to me it looks like the drug producers are doing better than the wheat farmers. Never doubted that at all, just think if they are making all this money on something that does the world harm, should'nt they atleast buy more food if they cant grow it as well as opium and cannabis?
Sources:
http://www.pecad.fas.usda.gov/highlights/2009/06/Afghanistan/
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LD20Df02.html
blacksmoke
11-04-2010, 06:56
What about Afghanistans mineral wealth? Will production of that ever come on line or will they continue to export poisons to the world? IMO, the farmers who can't get by on wheat should have to option to switch to marijuana, but not opium. Of course land that will not support much wheat also may not support marijuana.
What companies are going to mine minerals there? Who is going to provide security?
DevilSide
11-04-2010, 16:53
What companies are going to mine minerals there? Who is going to provide security?
Or the construction and utilities needed to transport the workers and materials, thats very rough terrain.
The Reaper
11-04-2010, 17:40
The Chinese.
TR
GratefulCitizen
11-04-2010, 19:44
What about Afghanistans mineral wealth? Will production of that ever come on line or will they continue to export poisons to the world? IMO, the farmers who can't get by on wheat should have to option to switch to marijuana, but not opium. Of course land that will not support much wheat also may not support marijuana.
The existence of minerals does not imply mineral wealth.
It is the hand and mind of man which turns that dirt into wealth.
That stuff is not ore to companies which act safely and treat employees well; it's just dirt.
As TR implied, it might be ore to China.
China isn't quite as restrained as other nations when it comes to mining.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/weekinreview/20mcneil.html?_r=3&scp=1&sq=The%20Curse%20of%20Plenty&st=cse
Because it takes up to 20 years for a mine to start earning profits and Afghanistan has been a battleground for 31 years, “no mining company in its right mind would go into Afghanistan now,” said Murray W. Hitzman, a professor of economic geology at the Colorado School of Mines.
<snip>
Compared with those countries, Afghanistan is at disadvantage, mining experts said. Even for $1 trillion, its riches may not be worth digging up.
Compared with oil drilling, minerals mining is extraordinarily expensive and time-consuming. As everyone from Jed Clampett to BP has discovered, a bubblin’ crude can emerge under its own pressure as soon as the earth’s surface is pricked.
Diamond mining is also comparatively cheap — diamonds are formed in pipes of softer kimberlite pushed up by volcanoes and usually mined in open pits or dug out of the beds of rivers that washed the volcanoes away. After that, they are simply sorted out of the gravel.
But gold, silver, copper and other minerals are usually locked in ore that must be tunneled down to, blasted out by the ton, carried to the surface, and ground into powder for processing. Digging the shafts and building elevators, processing plants, railroads and tarmac roads “can cost hundreds of millions to billions for a single mining operation,” said Roderick Eggert, director of the economics division at the Colorado School of Mines. “Even a small gold mine is $100 million.”
And while an oil well can go from discovery to production in two or three years, “it would take 5 to 15 years to go from where most of Afghanistan is now to an operating mine,” he said.
After that, added his colleague Dr. Hitzman, “even with a good mine, it takes 5 to 10 years to recoup your investment. What’s Afghanistan going to be like in five years?”
Also, someone must provide security, and 20 years of security by the United States military would cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
England, Holland, Spain, Portugal and Japan all discovered that the costs of policing empires outweighed the financial gains and that it was more practical to let private companies shoulder the risks. Mineral prices fluctuate wildly, and $1 trillion today may soon be much less. Gold broke the $1,000-an-ounce barrier for the first time last year. But it had hit $873 in 1980 — the equivalent of $2,300 today — and then languished under $500 for years.
Additional reading for those who are really bored:
(Scroll down and you can read the online version for free).
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12034
Dozer523
11-21-2010, 07:59
Does anyone know if the Spetsnaz will play a role? It would be interesting to see our SOF work with them. Interesting in what way? I can't imagine any scenario where working with Russians in Afghanistan would be beneficial to anyone. One is judged by the company they keep.
Dozer523
11-21-2010, 08:11
Joint raids, perhaps? I mean I guess they are involved now. Might as well utilize them. After what the Russians did to Afghanistan during the 70's and 80's? You need to do a little research.
Dozer523
11-21-2010, 08:21
Sir I am very aware of their history there. I just figured that times are different now. And why in the world would you -- who is "very aware of their history there" --think that?
Did you miss this in the original article? "Afghan President Hamid Karzai has criticised the first joint operation by Russian and US agents to destroy drug laboratories in his country. Mr Karzai said he had not been informed of Russia's participation - a sensitive issue in Afghanistan ever since the Soviet occupation ended 21 years ago. He called it a violation of Afghan sovereignty and international law.
Sounds like you just like the sound of things going "Boom".