BATFE - Project Gunrunner [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

Paslode

02-01-2011, 05:30

by JACQUES BILLEAUD
Associated Press

PHOENIX -- A U.S. senator is examining a claim that two guns sold in purchases sanctioned by federal firearms agents were later used in a December shootout that left a Border Patrol agent dead near the Arizona-Mexico border.

Republican Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa said in a letter provided Monday to The Associated Press he had received information that appears to partially corroborate the claim received by members of the Senate Judiciary Committee about the guns.

"Members of the Judiciary Committee have received numerous allegations that the ATF sanctioned the sale of hundreds of assault weapons to suspected straw buyers, who then allegedly transported these weapons throughout the Southwest border area and into Mexico," reads a letter sent Thursday from Grassley to Kenneth Melson, acting director of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The letter does not elaborate on the role possible of federal agents in the sale of the guns, and it could not be determined if the purchases were part of a sting operation.

ATF spokesman Tom Mangan declined to comment. Grassley spokeswoman Beth Pellett Levine declined to comment on the senator's letter to Melson.

Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry was waiting with other agents on Dec. 14 in a canyon near the Arizona border city of Nogales when a shootout with bandits erupted.

Terry was part of an elite squad similar to a police SWAT team that was sent to the canyon 13 miles north of the border known for robberies, drug smuggling and violence.

No other agents were injured in the attack. The six suspects were being held on felony immigration charges and haven't been charged in Terry's death. All have made court appearances, but authorities declined to release their identities and hometowns.

FBI spokesman Manuel Johnson declined to comment on the investigation into Terry's death. The agency declined an earlier Freedom of Information Act request by The Associated Press to release reports and other records of the investigation.

Grassley said in a letter Thursday that a buyer purchased three assault rifles with cash more than a year ago in Glendale, Ariz., and two of those guns were used in the shootout in Arizona.

"These extremely serious allegations were accompanied by detailed documentation which appears to lend credibility to the claims and partially corroborates them," Grassley wrote.

In the follow-up letter to Melson, Grassley said an ATF manager in Phoenix questioned an agent who answered questions posed by Grassley staffers about the agency's initiative to reduce the flow of firearms to Mexico.

The manager accused the agent of misconduct for his contacts with the judiciary committee, Grassley said.

"This is exactly the wrong sort of reaction for the ATF," Grassley wrote. "Rather than focusing on retaliating against whistleblowers, the ATF's sole focus should be on finding and disclosing the truth as soon as possible."

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/31/2044011/senator-examines-gun-claim-in.html#ixzz1ChmzSkGG

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/31/2044011/senator-examines-gun-claim-in.html

*

sinjefe

02-01-2011, 07:31

The truth is that the we "spin" the numbers on seizures to make it look like the majority of weapons seized in Mexico are coming from the US. They are not, as only a fraction of the guns seized are actually ever traced:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/#

Almost 70% of seied guns are never traced by Mexican authorities. They only trace guns that, A) they believe have a nexus to cross border crime and, B) That they think they may be able to successfully prosecute. When compared with previous postings about Mexico's judicial system where only 2% of all crimes committed actually lead to a successful prosecution, one can see that these numbers (relating to US guns) is miniscule and worthless. Since I work with the Mexican Military, I have had the opportunity to informally query senior MX officers and their opinion, though anecdotal, is that the majority of the guns they seize are coming from Central America, leftovers from the Cold War conflicts in Guatemala and El Salvador. While I personally don't have any information one way or the other, one can only imagine why we would want to keep that one quiet.

Dusty

02-01-2011, 07:54

To state the obvious, if the press can get Americans to believe that nonsense, the gun control push is facilitated.

DaveMatteson

02-01-2011, 07:55

If you get a chance, watch National Geographic's Border Wars. It is a great look into what the Customs and Border Patrol guys have to deal with on a daily basis. One of the episodes in the first season was an encounter with the Mexican Army which one of the Border Patrol Specialists said could either go very good or very bad. One show talks about why they made stones deadly weapons.

On the funny side are episodes like the 300lb American man hiding his 200lb 4ft tall Mexican girlfriend under the bench seat of the small pick-up he is driving. She is packed in a tight ball under the seat he is sitting on. Then there are the idiots.

Customs Agent: Hey how are you today?
Idiot: Good, but its a hot ass day....
Customs Agent: Yeah, I have to wear this all daygotanypot?
Idiot: Yeah I got 60........shit.....

In most cases they show the drug sweeps and the illegals crossing. I think they did one show on a weapons seizure. Usually what ends up in the news ends up in an episode and you get to see, in some cases, what really happened.

Paslode

02-01-2011, 08:12

Usually what ends up in the news ends up in an episode and you get to see, in some cases, what really happened.

I kind of doubt that ATF Agents setting up straw purchases and a Border Agent getting killed from one of those ATF inspired straw purchased weapons finds it way to NatGeo.

DaveMatteson

02-01-2011, 09:04

I kind of doubt that ATF Agents setting up straw purchases and a Border Agent getting killed from one of those ATF inspired straw purchased weapons finds it way to NatGeo.

Whether they were a "straw purchase" or not I have no idea. I do know during a couple of the shows they had ATF working with CBP in Nogales-Mariposa Port of Entry. One of the grabs was a car carrying 15-20 AKs with about 100 magazines and something like 6000 rounds of ammo. The driver was a Mexican National who fled but was captured. The incident with Terry was aired as well as the search that ensued.

As for the dealer compliance inspections, I wonder if the ATF went back to X-Caliber?

Go Devil

02-01-2011, 15:21

Phoenix-area gun store, ATF sting may be linked to border shootout
Senator links gun buy to border agent's death

by Dennis Wagner - Feb. 1, 2011 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Bandits who gunned down a U.S. Border Patrol agent during a December firefight near Nogales may have been armed with assault rifles purchased from a Valley gun store in conjunction with a federal sting operation and subsequently smuggled into Mexico, according to a key member of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee.
In letters to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, suggests that negligence by federal agents who failed to keep the firearms out of Mexico may have played a part in the slaying of Agent Brian Terry, a member of the Border Patrol's elite tactical unit known as BORTAC.
Grassley said he had information that the AK-47s recovered at the shooting scene were traced to Project Gunrunner, an ATF program designed to stem the illegal flow of U.S. guns to Mexican narcotics cartels. It is not unusual for law-enforcement agents to allow illegal transactions to occur so that they can follow contraband, identifying ringleaders and key players in organized-crime organizations.
"Members of the Judiciary Committee have received numerous allegations that the ATF sanctioned the sale of hundreds of assault weapons to suspected straw purchasers, who then allegedly transported these weapons throughout the southwestern border area and into Mexico," the senator wrote in a letter Thursday to acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson.
"According to the allegations, one of these individuals purchased three assault rifles with cash in Glendale, Arizona, on January 16, 2010. Two of the weapons were then allegedly used in a firefight on December 14, 2010, against Customs and Border Protection agents, killing CBP Agent Brian Terry."
A source within the justice system familiar with the case confirmed to The Arizona Republic last week that one or two weapons recovered from the border shootout had been traced to Lone Wolf Trading Co., a Glendale gun store, but did not confirm they were part of Project Gunrunner.
Terry and his teammates were hunting for rip crews, robbers who target illegal immigrants and smugglers, when they spotted five armed men near Rio Rico. The Republic source, who requested anonymity, said BORTAC agents called out, "Policia!" and attempted to arrest the suspects. When the shooting started, the source said, agents returned fire with non-lethal bean bags, then bullets.
One suspect was wounded, but four others ran off in the confusion, disappearing into the night. Agents swarmed the area and conducted a search, locating several men who claimed to be illegal immigrants unconnected to the gunbattle. According to the justice-system source, FBI agents now believe that those detainees were telling the truth and that four assailants escaped across the border.
Six weeks after the murder, no one has been charged, although the source said an indictment was expected against the wounded suspect.
Grassley has requested a briefing from the ATF, adding that he had received documentation in support of the allegations.
"There are serious concerns that the ATF may have become careless, if not negligent, in implementing the Gunrunner strategy," he wrote.
ATF Director Melson could not be reached for comment Monday.
Tom Mangan, an ATF spokesman in Phoenix, said he was "unaware of any guns allowed to go south of the border," either intentionally or inadvertently. "I am not aware of any internal investigation that's going on regarding Project Gunrunner."
Manuel Johnson, an FBI agent in Phoenix, declined to comment, as did the U.S. Border Patrol.
At a Phoenix news conference last week, the ATF and the U.S. Attorney's Office announced indictments of 34 people in connection with firearms smuggling to Mexico. Bill Newell, ATF special agent in charge for Arizona, said five separate cases, all part of Project Gunrunner, demonstrate the corruptive reach of Mexican cartels using straw buyers to acquire guns in Arizona for illegal shipment south.
After the news conference, Newell was asked if agents purposely allowed firearms to enter Mexico as part of an investigation. He answered, "Hell no."
However, he said, suspects under surveillance sometimes elude agents, which could result in guns winding up in Mexico.
Although Grassley's letter does not specify which Glendale store sold the assault rifles used in the shooting, transaction details match information in a 53-count indictment against Jaime Avila, identified as the leader of one Arizona smuggling ring.
In a statement Monday, Lone Wolf owner Andre Hunter said he has been cooperating with authorities. "We have worked closely in conjunction with several federal agencies," Hunter wrote.

tonyz

02-10-2011, 16:06

This story could have been added to a number of threads on similar topics - mods please move if you prefer.

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
February 10, 2011 | 0951 GMT

Read more: Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth?utm_source=SWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110210&utm_content=readmore&elq=1221492b543844d6a22008b349cfa389

Excerpt:

By Scott Stewart

"For several years now, STRATFOR has been closely watching developments in Mexico that relate to what we consider the three wars being waged there. Those three wars are the war between the various drug cartels, the war between the government and the cartels and the war being waged against citizens and businesses by criminals.

In addition to watching tactical developments of the cartel wars on the ground and studying the dynamics of the conflict among the various warring factions, we have also been paying close attention to the ways that both the Mexican and U.S. governments have reacted to these developments. Perhaps one of the most interesting aspects to watch has been the way in which the Mexican government has tried to deflect responsibility for the cartel wars away from itself and onto the United States. According to the Mexican government, the cartel wars are not a result of corruption in Mexico or of economic and societal dynamics that leave many Mexicans marginalized and desperate to find a way to make a living. Instead, the cartel wars are due to the insatiable American appetite for narcotics and the endless stream of guns that flows from the United States into Mexico and that results in Mexican violence.

Interestingly, the part of this argument pertaining to guns has been adopted by many politicians and government officials in the United States in recent years. It has now become quite common to hear U.S. officials confidently assert that 90 percent of the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the United States. However, a close examination of the dynamics of the cartel wars in Mexico — and of how the oft-echoed 90 percent number was reached — clearly demonstrates that the number is more political rhetoric than empirical fact."

mark46th

02-10-2011, 17:05

After having worked in Mexico, I can verify the"It's not my fault" mentality.

Now following the logic of the United Sates being at fault for the drug wars because of drug use in the U.S., couldn't the same logic be applied to the Mexican appetite for fire arms?

incarcerated

02-10-2011, 19:04

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

From the article:

Paslode

02-13-2011, 09:46

The lot numbers of some of the grenades recovered, including the grenade used in the attack on Televisa, indicate that previously ordnance with these same lot numbers may have been sold by the USG [U.S. Government] to the El Salvadoran military in the early 1990s via the Foreign Military Sales program. We would like to thank AmEmbassy San Salvador for its ongoing efforts to query the Government of El Salvador as whether any of its stocks of grenades and other munitions have been diverted or are otherwise unaccounted for. [Emphasis added.]

There was some talk among [U.S.] task force members about a ... gun-making operation ongoing in or around Oxacha, Mexico, more like a “refurbish” type operation from old stored weapons from the old Contra days (1980-‘90 era). [There’s] a lot of those weapons still around Panama and El Salvador. I was told most of those old weapons were “burned out" and of not much value. However, if there was a supplier or someone who could retrofit these weapons [they] could be fixed and moved just about anywhere....

five top officials with a gun manufacturer called Sabre Defence Industries LLC stand accused of illegally trafficking gun parts, such as gun barrels and components, on an international scale.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2011/02/pentagon-fingered-source-narco-firepower-mexico

tonyz

02-13-2011, 10:15

DJ Urbanovsky

02-13-2011, 11:34

I'd be curious to know the stats on how many recovered firearms have their origins in the Eastern Bloc or China, but we'll probably never see those figures... :rolleyes: And nobody is talking about the weapons that Mexicans are smuggling into the US.

You can't even legally own a firearm in Mexico if it's chambered in a military caliber - that's why .38 super is so popular down there.

As has been said, this whole debacle is just an excuse to foist the blame for Mexico's problems upon the US, and an excuse for another attempted clamp down on the 2nd Amendment rights of US citizens.

Pete

02-17-2011, 06:13

“It’s unclear how cartels are getting military grade weapons,” the AP report states.

It is becoming abundantly clear (to any rationally thinking person) that the cartels are not obtaining military grade weapons from the mom and pop gun shops along the border. Substantial BATF resources being allocated to these US retailers is wasteful.

The Truth About Mexican Drug Cartels’ Arsenal: Follow the Grenades

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/02/robert-farago/the-truth-about-mexican-drug-cartels-arsenal-follow-the-grenades/

The story has pulled key messages from WikieLeaks on where some of the grenades came from - and they didn't come from Bob's Gun Shop down the block.

Most of the messages start with (S) so I'll not quote them here.

tonyz

02-17-2011, 08:17

Good post Pete - a great deal of information can be gleaned from the link that you provided - thank you.

Among the information was a press release - it appears that Feinstein and her ilk are using the violence in Mexico and along our border to float the idea of a return to a ban on certain firearms - what was it that we heard in the early days of the BHO administration - never let a crisis go to waste.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Tuesday, February 1, 2011
Senator Feinstein Urges President Obama to Prohibit Imported Assault Weapons

Washington, DC – U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein urged President Obama to prohibit the importation of military-style assault firearms that contribute to violence in the United States and Mexico.

Excerpts:

"I write to urge you to review enforcement of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) provision, 18 U.S. Code Section 925(d)(3), which prohibits the importation of firearms except those that are “generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.” Previous Administrations have used this authority to limit the importation of military-style assault firearms, and it could once again be a helpful tool in preventing the gun trafficking that is fueling the horrific gun violence in Mexico, the Southwest border region, and many cities and towns across our nation.

"Since the Clinton Administration’s efforts, the GCA’s prohibition against non-sporting firearms has not been aggressively enforced, and many military-style, non-sporting rifles have flowed into the United States civilian market."

"Regrettably, firearms trafficked from the United States help fuel the violence in Mexico. Of the firearms recovered by the Government of Mexico and traced through ATF in the past 4 years, more than 50,000 were manufactured in, or imported into, the United States prior to being recovered in Mexico. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and other federal, state and local law enforcement are working to stop this gun trafficking and related violence, but they need additional help. The Administration recently took an important step forward with ATF’s initiative to collect information on multiple sales of semi-automatic assault rifles from Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. I applaud you for this initiative. However, much more must be done."

"I urge you to review enforcement of the GCA and take any regulatory steps necessary to stop the both the importation of all military-style, non-sporting firearms, and the assembly of those firearms from imported parts. We must ensure that law enforcement has all the necessary resources and tools needed to stop the gun violence that is taking a deadly toll in Mexico and in our country. I look forward to working with you toward that goal. Thank you for your attention to this urgent issue."

http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=NewsRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=e1da8200-5056-8059-766c-e323f139589b

NRA response:

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6207

Excerpts:

Of course, while the BATFE deserves criticism for its repeated misinterpretations of the law, and Feinstein deserves criticism for encouraging yet another misinterpretation, the primary problem is the law's "sporting purpose" limitation. Imposed in 1968, in the pre-Right-to-Carry and pre-Heller days, when government enjoyed a near monopoly on the use of armed defense outside a person's home, the law is ripe for a remedy in Congress or the courts.

NRA members can help right now by sending their comments to the BATFE concerning its working group's proposal to ban the importation of shotguns that have magazines that hold over five rounds, rail systems for lighting devices, adjustable stocks, and other features listed in the group's report.

Comments should be sent to BATFE no later than May 1, 2011, at shotgunstudy@atf.gov, or by fax to (202) 648-9601. Faxed comments may not exceed 5 pages. All comments must include name and mailing address.

Chris Cram

02-24-2011, 19:57

I received the following link this afternoon… What a CF.
http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/2011/02.24.11%20alert.html

02.24.11 MAINSTREAM MEDIA FINALLY GETS IT.
CBS News has produced a segment on the outrageous and deadly actions of the BATFE who have been expediting the transfer of thousands of firearms to Mexican drug cartels.

Those weapons are now being used against US Agents on the border.

While we welcome any attention from the establishment media, we think it's essential that gun owners know who did the work that led to this story finally seeing the light of day.

It's been a long time coming, but the tireless and courageous efforts of Mike Vanderboegh of Sipsey Street Irregulars and our friend David Codrea of Gun Rights Examiner are behind this story finally getting some mainstream airtime.

Needless to say, the ATF will use whatever means and methods available to them to cover up the truth and intimidate the whistle blowers. But thanks to David and Mike, the truth is out there.

tonyz

02-25-2011, 10:33

High level corruption in Mexico does not bode well for BATF agents on the ground - in addition to the mess created by the thousands of walked guns.

This will get worse before it gets better.

Ex-Calderón guard leaked secrets to drug cartels
By Diana Washington Valdez / El Paso Times
Posted: 02/22/2011 12:00:00 AM MST

EXCERPTS:

“A Mexican officer assigned to guard President Felipe Calderón was accused of leaking information to drug cartels in exchange for bribes, training hit men through a private security firm, and supplying military weapons to groups like the Zetas, according to a U.S. diplomatic cable.

The document also said another official who worked for Calderón leaked a copy of the president's medical file to one of the cartels.

Concerning the accused military officer, "the cartels were using the information to avoid heightened security around the president, not to target him personally," said the document disclosed by online whistleblower WikiLeaks.”
“ICE Special Agent Victor Avila of El Paso was wounded, while ICE Special Agent Jaime Zapata of Brownsville died at the scene. They were assigned to liaison duties in Mexico.

Mexican and U.S. officials said their investigation into the roadside attack is ongoing.

Former ICE official Miguel Contreras said he was not surprised by the infiltration of cartel assets in Mexico's military and law enforcement.
"I was at a gathering in Mexico more than 20 years ago when the first commander of the Mexican Federal Judicial Police pulled out a copy of a DEA report that was about him and read it to us," Contreras said. "He told us he knew the DEA agent who wrote the report, and he also told us that 'whatever you do or write, we are going to know about it.' The DEA report he had was a sensitive document that someone had leaked to him."

The U.S. diplomatic cable dated Jan. 20, 2009, said that Mexican officials tried to downplay "the seriousness of the breach" related to the army officer's bribery case.

"The second unsettling aspect of the case is that González apparently had been on the cartel payroll since 2005, during which time he held different positions in the government," the U.S. cable said. "As he changed assignments, he was kept on as a cartel asset, and the nature of his involvement with the cartels changed."

http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_17442613.%C2%A0

http://www.wikileaks.ch/origin/68_0.html

incarcerated

02-27-2011, 11:25

I received the following link this afternoon… What a CF.
http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/2011/02.24.11%20alert.html

From the CBS web site:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/23/eveningnews/main20035609.shtml

Gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF

Program aimed at stopping the flow of weapons from the US to Mexico may have allegedly had the opposite effect
By Sharyl Attkisson
February 23, 2011
....In late 2009, ATF was alerted to suspicious buys at seven gun shops in the Phoenix area. Suspicious because the buyers paid cash, sometimes brought in paper bags. And they purchased classic "weapons of choice" used by Mexican drug traffickers - semi-automatic versions of military type rifles and pistols.

Sources tell CBS News several gun shops wanted to stop the questionable sales, but ATF encouraged them to continue.

Jaime Avila was one of the suspicious buyers. ATF put him in its suspect database in January of 2010. For the next year, ATF watched as Avila and other suspects bought huge quantities of weapons supposedly for "personal use." They included 575 AK-47 type semi-automatic rifles.

ATF managers allegedly made a controversial decision: allow most of the weapons on the streets. The idea, they said, was to gather intelligence and see where the guns ended up. Insiders say it's a dangerous tactic called letting the guns, "walk."

One agent called the strategy "insane." Another said: "We were fully aware the guns would probably be moved across the border to drug cartels where they could be used to kill."

On the phone, one Project Gunrunner source (who didn't want to be identified) told us just how many guns flooded the black market under ATF's watchful eye. "The numbers are over 2,500 on that case by the way. That's how many guns were sold - including some 50-calibers they let walk."

50-caliber weapons are fearsome. For months, ATF agents followed 50-caliber Barrett rifles and other guns believed headed for the Mexican border, but were ordered to let them go. One distraught agent was often overheard on ATF radios begging and pleading to be allowed to intercept transports. The answer: "Negative. Stand down."

CBS News has been told at least 11 ATF agents and senior managers voiced fierce opposition to the strategy. "It got ugly..." said one. There was "screaming and yelling" says another. A third warned: "this is crazy, somebody is gonna to get killed."

Sure enough, the weapons soon began surfacing at crime scenes in Mexico - dozens of them sources say - including shootouts with government officials.

One agent argued with a superior asking, "are you prepared to go to the funeral of a federal officer killed with one of these guns?" Another said every time there was a shooting near the border, "we would all hold our breath hoping it wasn't one of 'our' guns."

Then, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered. The serial numbers on the two assault rifles found at the scene matched two rifles ATF watched Jaime Avila buy in Phoenix nearly a year before. Officials won't answer whether the bullet that killed Terry came from one of those rifles. But the nightmare had come true: "walked" guns turned up at a federal agent's murder.

"You feel like s***. You feel for the parents," one ATF veteran told us.

Hours after Agent Terry was gunned down, ATF finally arrested Avila. They've since indicted 34 suspected gunrunners in the same group. But the indictment makes no mention of Terry's murder, and no one is charged in his death....

In a letter, the Justice Department which oversees ATF says the agency has never knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to suspected gunrunners.

Paslode

02-27-2011, 12:06

In a letter, the Justice Department which oversees ATF says the agency has never knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to suspected gunrunners.

Right, they never knew a thing...Plausible deniability...I love it! I wonder how the DOJ will handle this BATFE fiasco since they don't have a David Koresch or Randy Weaver to pin the blame on this time.

Pete

03-04-2011, 05:42

ATF let hundreds of U.S. weapons........

http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2976/

"Hoping to score a major prosecution of Mexican drug lords, federal prosecutors and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives permitted hundreds of guns to be purchased and retained by suspected straw buyers with the expectation they might cross the border and even be used in crimes while the case was being built, according to documents and interviews. ........"

And what we've known for a while.....

"..........In May 2010, a Customs and Border Protection agent confronted an armed band of gangsters along the U.S. side of the border. The suspects fled but some of the guns they left behind were traced back to weapons purchased by one of the suspects targeted in Fast and Furious, Dodson said.

Then in December, two weapons recovered at the scene of a murdered Customs and Border Protection agent, Brian Terry, were traced to the ATF operation, according to Sen.Grassley............."

Paslode

03-07-2011, 18:02

White House press secretary Jay Carney did not shed any light Monday on the allegations uncovered by CBS News that ATF intentionally let thousands of assault rifles and other weapons fall into the hands of Mexico's drug cartels. Insiders call the controversial practice letting guns "walk."

In the wake of our CBS News investigation, Mexico has asked the U.S. for more information. Two AK-47 type variant assault rifles that ATF allegedly let "walk" were found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry last December. Here's the excerpt from today's White House briefing:

CBS News chief White House correspondent Chip Reid: "Do you have any comment on the story and on these developments today?"

Carney: "I don't. Obviously, as the president pointed out when he spoke here with President Calderon, we take the issue of the flow of guns south very seriously, as we do the issue of the flow of drugs north. And -- but beyond that, I don't have any comment."

Reid: "Is he aware of this specific allegation..."

Carney: "I don't know."

Reid: "... that hundreds of guns went into Mexico with the knowledge of ATF?"

Carney: "I don't know."

Amazing how the Administration knows plenty about and has plenty of advice on and/or for Libya and all the other countries engulfed in these social networking revolutions that are making the rounds.....but they know little to nothing about our border.

Paslode

03-09-2011, 15:22

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, March 2009

"Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers and civilians. So, yes, I feel very strongly we have a co-responsibility."

President Obama said on April 16th 2009

"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States."

A major scandal is developing around a signature U.S. effort to track and stop the flow of illicit weapons to Mexico, as officials at the Department of Justice close ranks, hoping to cover up an investigation critics say is responsible for an untold number of dead.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/09/project-gun-runner-scandal-border/

Paslode

03-12-2011, 18:28

http://judiciary.house.gov/news/pdfs/HJC%20Gunrunner%20Letter.pdf

tonyz

03-12-2011, 19:37

That is an interesting letter to Holder - it may be more interesting to watch how he responds.

IMO, this may be one of those rare instances when it might be productive to name a special prosecutor to investigate this particular matter (fat chance).

Given the death of BATF personnel - allegedly involving BATF "walked guns" - I do not believe that an ordinary IG/AG investigation should be trusted to produce impartial results.

Considering the stakes involved - some might say that it is advisable for the AG to avoid even the mere appearance of impropriety - notwithstanding the fact that the AG may ultimately name the special prosecutor. After all, someone in power in DC must still have a shred of integrity left? - sorry - rhetorical question.

I have another idea...let's issue our guys on the border some bean bag guns...and nearly simultaneously walk some real good shit across that same border - while our politicians disingenuously scream bloody hell about scores and scores of US source firearms being used in violence along the border. Sometimes, I wonder whether the folks in DC are channeling Charlie Sheen for such hallucinatory insight. WINNING !

JJ_BPK

03-13-2011, 05:09

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, March 2009

"Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers and civilians. So, yes, I feel very strongly we have a co-responsibility."

President Obama said on April 16th 2009

"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/09/project-gun-runner-scandal-border/

These guys must be with ACORN??? Will they get a by from Holder..
:munchin

Columbus, NM Mayor, Police Chief Accused By Feds Of Buying Guns To Illegally Export To Mexico

http://www.kvia.com/news/27146962/detail.html

Update: Columbus, N.M., City Leaders Arrested In Federal Raid

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/27148177/detail.html

Or is Holder only after those that don't contribute VIG???

delta6

03-18-2011, 08:01

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, March 2009

"Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers and civilians. So, yes, I feel very strongly we have a co-responsibility."

President Obama said on April 16th 2009

"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/09/project-gun-runner-scandal-border/

It is the government's inability to curtail these alleged migrant weapons that end up with the drug cartel and other nafarious sorts, the bottom line is what the government really wants is gun control. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Paslode

03-18-2011, 14:38

It is the government's inability to curtail these alleged migrant weapons that end up with the drug cartel and other nafarious sorts, the bottom line is what the government really wants is gun control. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Correct.....the irony appears to be that the same Government that wishes to control the guns of private, law abiding US Citizens and condemned the US Firearms dealers......is the same Government that was/is actually assisting the drug cartels procurement of firearms, is guilty of providing weapons to falsely increase the numbers of weapons crossing the border to serve a political agenda and the weapons they have provided have been linked to MURDERS.

The mere association with the murders would for the commoner lead to a charge as an accessory to murder in the crime.......I doubt anyone at the DOJ, DHS or BATFE will receive such as harsh punishment.

tonyz

03-22-2011, 07:39

There are videos embedded in the full story contained in the link below.

One of the darkest periods in BATF history - this activity directly resulted in the death of at least one U.S. citizen while on duty.

I am generally not one to call for a lawsuit - but - if true, I hope that the family of the deceased sues and is awarded millions for this travesty. There has been a murder resulting from some very questionable policy decisions - should there also be a criminal investigation?

At a minimum some heads should roll - no pensions.

Excerpts:

March 21, 2011
ATF gunwalking scandal: Second agent speaks out
ATF allegedly encouraged U.S. gun sales to Mexican drug traffickers -- Now there's evidence other agencies knew about program

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/21/eveningnews/main20045609.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

(CBS News)

WASHINGTON - South of El Paso, Texas, on Mexico's side of the border, lies Juarez - the most dangerous city in the world. CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports ATF Special Agent Rene Jaquez has been stationed there for the past year, trying to keep U.S. guns from being trafficked into Mexico.

"That's what we do as an agency," Jaquez said. "ATF's primary mission is to make sure that we curtail gun trafficking."

That's why Jaquez tells CBS News he was so alarmed to hear his own agency may have done the opposite: encouraged U.S. gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexico's drug cartels. Apparently, ATF hoped that letting weapons "walk" onto the street - to see where they'd end up - would help them take down a cartel.

Gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF

Jaquez is so opposed to the strategy, he's speaking out. "You don't let guns walk. I've never let a gun walk."

Yet ATF agents told us they were ordered to let thousands of weapons walk. Two of them, assault rifles, were later found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in Arizona last December. Another gunrunning suspect under ATF surveillance was linked to the shooting of Customs Agent Jaime Zapata. And sources say many more "walked" weapons turned up at Mexican crime scenes.

Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Jaquez said, "I think this incidence is probably one of the darkest days in ATF's history."

But ATF wasn't working alone on the case known as "Fast and Furious." Documents show ATF had conference calls with "DHS" (Homeland Security). "USMS" (U.S. Marshals) and DEA. An "ICE," or Customs agent, was on ATF's Fast and Furious team. They were advised by an "AUSA," or Assistant U.S. Attorney under the Justice Department.

AK47s vs. bean bags in border drug war

Justice Department head Eric Holder said the inspector general is investigating. "The aim of the ATF is to try to stop the flow of guns. I think they do a good job in that regard. Questions have been raised by ATF agents about the way in which some of these operations have been conducted. I think those questions have to be taken seriously, and on that basis, I've asked the inspector general to look at it."

Holder: Gunwalking is wrong

Jaquez is second sitting ATF agent to come forward and speak out to CBS News on the controversy.

Jaquez says one of the most difficult things for him is believing that his own agency inadvertently put innocent lives at risk. Jaquez has family - uncles, aunts, father and sister - living in Mexico. "Any one of us could have been shot with one of those guns."

Jaquez says he's left wondering whether runaway violence in Mexico can be partly blamed on the agency tasked with stopping it.

Paslode

03-26-2011, 15:29

One weapon linked to shootout in which eight people were killed
By SCOTT GORDON
Updated 10:00 PM CDT, Fri, Mar 25, 2011

Four Tarrant County men bought more than $100,000 in assault rifles over the past six months, including one that was used in a shootout in Mexico in which eight people were killed, according to a federal criminal complaint.

It is the third case in the past month in which guns purchased in North Texas have been linked to the drug war in Mexico.

The men, Reynaldo Bazan, Saul Bazan, Carlos Bazan and Obed Martinez, were arrested on Thursday by agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives.

It was not immediately clear if the Bazans are related.

The men face charges of conspiracy to deal in firearms without a license.

The complaint alleges they have bought 129 assault rifles since October, usually two at a time.

One of the weapons, purchased by Reynaldo Bazan, was used in an "altercation" with the Mexican Navy in which eight people were killed, the ATF said.

The complaint did not specify where it occurred, but the details match a shootout on March 1 in the city of Valle Hermoso, near Matamoros, which is across the border from Brownsville.

According to news accounts, it was a five-hour battle. Mexican marines killed eight suspected cartel gunmen. One marine was injured. The military unit came under fire after responding to a report of a suspicious convoy of SUVs and fought back, killing the gunmen.

In the SUVs, the marines seized 12 high-powered weapons, grenades, a grenade launcher and assorted ammunition.

The arrests in North Texas follow two similar high-profile busts in recent weeks.

Just two weeks ago, three illegal immigrants were arrested after managers at a Fort Worth gun store notified authorities about suspicious purchases. The guns were destined for the violent drug cartel known as the "Zetas," the ATF said.

On Feb. 28, three Lancaster men were arrested when a gun they allegedly purchased at a Fort Worth gun show was linked to the Feb. 15 shootings of two U.S. agents in Mexico.

One of the agents, Jaime Zapata, was killed. That incident also was linked to the Zetas.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/More-North-Texans-Linked-to-Drug-Cartel-Guns-118686294.html

Surf n Turf

03-26-2011, 15:30

Does anyone really think that the DOJ would engage in these deceitful practices :rolleyes:
SnT

How high up does ‘Project Gunrunner’ go? (Who knew what and when?)

The Project Gunrunner scandal took another step up the government food chain with last night’s disclosure in a CBS News interview with a former senior official with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that the operation was approved by someone in the Department of Justice “even higher than ATF Director Kenneth Melson.”
The question “Who knew what, and when” became part of the national lexicon during the Watergate investigation a generation ago. Now it may become part of the fabric of the Gunrunner probe.

In this morning’s Seattle PI.com, columnist Joel Connelly complained about the gun traffic to Mexico, and how efforts to stop the flood have been impeded by the “gun lobby.” Gun rights activists suggest he is directing his anger at the wrong people. Instead of railing about the gun lobby, perhaps he should be asking the ATF about all of those guns the agency allowed to cross the border, they contend.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/how-high-up-does-project-gunrunner-go-who-knew-what-and-when

Paslode

04-22-2011, 13:38

McClatchy Washington Bureau
Print This Article Print This Article

Posted on Thu, Apr. 21, 2011
Drug gangs help themselves to Central American military arsenals
Tim Johnson | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: April 22, 2011 12:47:18 PM

WASHINGTON — Crime groups in cahoots with venal army officers are looting military arsenals in Central America, giving them powerful weapons that allow them to outgun police and challenge the region's regular armies.

The weapons run the gamut from assault rifles to anti-tank missiles, some of which the U.S. supplied during regional conflicts more than two decades ago. The slippage from military armories occurs regularly.

The feared Mexican organized crime group known as Los Zetas has stolen weapons from military depots in Guatemala three times in recent years, Guatemalan Deputy Security Minister Mario Castaneda told an anti-narcotics conference in early April in Cancun, Mexico.

In February, U.S. prosecutors unsealed a five-count indictment against a retired army captain from El Salvador for allegedly selling or offering C-4 plastic explosives, assault rifles, grenades and blasting caps to undercover agents.

U.S. diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks and passed to McClatchy show that American envoys have repeatedly voiced concern over lax controls on military weapons depots in Guatemala and Honduras.

One cable from June 2009 carries a simple message line: "Rogue elements of Guatemalan military selling weapons to narcos."

The cable was sent after a narcotics raid on a warehouse south of Guatemala City on April 24, 2009, when agents clashed with "a number of heavily armed Zetas," leaving five agents dead. Inside the warehouse, the unit found 11 machine guns, a light antitank weapon, 563 rocket-propelled grenades, 32 hand grenades, eight landmines and abundant ammunition in crates with the seal of a Guatemalan military industrial facility.

U.S. defense analysts determined "with a high degree of confidence that many of these weapons and munitions came from Guatemalan military stocks," the cable said.

"The involvement of Guatemalan military officers in the sale of weapons to narco-traffickers raises serious concerns about the Guatemalan military's ability to secure its arms and ammunition," it added.

Moreover, it puts police tasked with confronting the cartels at a sharp disadvantage, the cable said, because they "now have to go up against weapons from Guatemala's own military."

Further piquing U.S. officials, Washington furnished some of the munitions.

That turned out to be the case in Honduras, where U.S.-supplied grenades and light anti-tank weapons turned up as far away as Ciudad Juarez, the narco-infested Mexican city on the border with Texas, and on Colombia's San Andres Island, an entry point for weapons going to drug-trafficking guerrillas.

The slippage prompted the Defense Intelligence Agency to publish a report entitled, "Honduras: Military Weapons Fuel Black Arms Market," an October 2008 cable said.

It noted that the Pentagon investigators determined from lot and serial numbers that six light anti-tank weapons found in Colombia "were part of a shipment of 50" sent to Honduras in 1992 under a U.S. Foreign Military Sales program.

U.S. diplomats were unhappy enough over "lax weapon control" to issue a formal diplomatic protest to the then-minister of defense, Aristides Mejia, another cable said.

Unsavory buyers sometimes approach guards at armories in El Salvador offering cash for weapons, Defense Minister David Munguia Payes said in an interview, but so far the losses haven't been great.

"What has been lost is little, maybe five or six rifles in the last three years. That is different from Guatemala's Mariscal Zavala depot, where almost the entire armory was cleaned out twice," Munguia said.

He said large stocks of munitions remain stashed around Central America from the 1980s and 1990s, when civil wars roiled the region.

"There are many grenades left over from the wars," Munguia said. "If you include all the years of conflict, about half a million grenades came in here."

Munguia's assertions of only minor losses do not do not help explain the case of Hector Antonio Martinez Guillen, a 32-year-old former Salvadoran army captain who was snared in a sting while allegedly offering U.S. undercover agents C-4 explosives, as many as 3,000 hand grenades and several Russian-made Sam-7 shoulder-fired missiles, apparently taken from unsecured military arsenals.

Martinez Guillen was lured to Washington and arrested in a parking lot near Dulles International Airport on Nov. 18. The Salvadoran, known as "El Capitan," had gone to Guatemala earlier in the year and trained with the Kaibiles, a Guatemalan special forces unit known to be infiltrated by the Los Zetas drug gang.

A Feb. 24 indictment against him says he believed he was dealing with a representative of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, guerrillas, and would be swapping weapons for cocaine.

The Justice Department in 1997 declared the FARC a terrorist organization, and if Martinez Guillen is convicted of arming terrorists, he could face life in a U.S. prison.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/21/112616/drug-gangs-help-themselves-to.html

Paslode

04-22-2011, 13:54

Mexican Narco Gangs appear to pick up some serious hardware South of the Mexican Border, likely far more than what trickles across their Northern Border, yet......Mexico wants to sue U.S. gun makers

April 21, 2011 4:19 PM
Mexico wants to sue U.S. gun makers

CBS News has learned that the Mexican Government has retained an American law firm to explore filing civil charges against U.S. gun manufacturers and distributors over the flood of guns crossing the border into Mexico.

Sources say Mexico's frustration with U.S. efforts to stop the flow of weapons has pushed them into this novel approach. The law firm is looking at charges that may include civil RICO. The contract was signed on November 2, 2010 by a representative of Mexico's Attorney General, at their Washington embassy.

On November 5, 2010 President Felipe Calderon expressed his frustration to CBS News correspondent Peter Greenberg: "We seized more than 90,000 weapons...I am talking like 50,000 assault weapons, AR-15 machine guns, more than 8,000 grenades and almost 10 million bullets. Amazing figures and according to all those cases, the ones we are able to track, most of these are American weapons."

According to sources, investigators will obtain makes and serial numbers of guns seized by Mexican authorities and trace them to their U.S. distributors and manufacturers.

Christopher Renzulli of New York, who has represented U.S. gun makers for fifteen years, says he believes this would be a difficult case for the Mexican government to win. "The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act would bar that kind of lawsuit from the start. The law, passed in 2005 has resulted in several lawsuits against gun makers being dismissed.

But sources familiar with the case say the law firm retained by Mexico - New York based Reid Collins & Tsai - believes the federal law won't stand in the way of their case.

According to the Mexican government database, there were 15,273 drug-related killings in 2010.Overall, a total of 34,612 people have died in drug-related killings in the four years since Mexican President Felipe Calderon declared a stepped-up offensive against drug cartels.

Richard Feldman, President of the Independent Firearms Association and former gun industry association executive said: "Maybe we should be suing the Mexican government for their failure to prevent drugs from coming into our country."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20056210-10391695.html

Reid Collins & Tsai.....

July 28, 2010
President nominates Marina Garcia Marmolejo (http://www.rctlegal.com/mmarmolejo.html) for Southern District bench

In a press release today from the White House, President Barack Obama announced his nomination of Marina Garcia Marmolejo (http://www.rctlegal.com/mmarmolejo.html), a partner in Reid Davis in San Antonio, as a judge for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas. “I am confident she will serve on the federal bench with distinction,” the president stated in the release. Marmolejo is Obama’s second judicial nominee for Texas. On July 14, he nominated Diana Saldaña for a Southern District bench in Laredo. According to the White House press release, Marmolejo joined Reid Davis in 2009 and previously was of counsel in the San Antonio office of Thompson & Knight. Prior to entering private practice, Marmolejo was an assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District, a post she held from 1999 until 2007. A 1996 graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, Marmolejo began her legal career as an assistant public defender, serving first in the Western District and later in the Southern District. U.S. Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, notes in an e-mail from his office that the Texas Democratic Delegation had recommended Marmolejo for a judicial nomination on May 13, 2009.
-- Mary Alice Robbins

incarcerated

05-05-2011, 15:23

Going on offense:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/03/issa-to-holder-on-gunrunner-were-looking-at-you-and-your-key-people/

Issa to Holder on Gunrunner: We’re looking at you and your key people

Published: 2:38 PM 05/03/2011
Rep. Darrell Issa, the California Republican who chairs the House Oversight Committee, was able to question Attorney General Eric Holder for the first time over the Project Gunrunner and Operation Fast and Furious scandal during a Tuesday morning hearing of the House Judiciary Committee. The scandal involves a sting operation conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in which American guns – including AK-47 assault rifles and military-grade, .50 caliber sniper rifles – were allowed to be smuggled into Mexico and sold to drug cartels, with the goal of tracking the weapons after they’ve been used.

At the hearing, Holder conceded to Issa that Congress has the authority to conduct investigations independent of the Justice Department. Holder also said the DOJ has 20 cases heading to trial in June on the subject. Issa doesn’t think much of those cases.

“Isn’t it true that those 20 cases going to trial in June are basically a bunch of meth addicts who were straw buying? You don’t have the kingpins,” Issa said. “What you have are the people you already had.”

Issa then asked Holder whether the Justice Department will cooperate with ongoing congressional investigations, which he says differ from the DOJ’s on who is being investigated. “We’re not looking at straw buyers, Mr. Attorney General, we’re looking at you,” Issa said. “We’re looking at you, we’re looking at your key people who knew or should’ve known about this.”

Holder said he’ll cooperate, but struck back against Issa’s charge of who’s responsible for wrongdoing with this program. “The notion that somehow or another that this Justice Department is responsible for those deaths, that assertion is offensive,” Holder said, referring to the deaths of American Border Patrol agents who may have been killed with American guns obtained through the program.

“What if it’s accurate, Mr. Attorney General?” Issa responded.

“What am I going to tell Agent Terry’s mother about how he died at the hand of a gun that was videotaped as it was being sold to a straw purchaser fully expecting it to end up in the hands of drug cartels?” Issa asked Holder.

Holder responded to Issa’s question by saying: “We’ll have to see exactly what happened with regard to the guns that are an issue there.”

Issa was referring to Brian Terry, a Border Patrol agent who was killed last December. At the scene of the crime, two AK47s that were purchased in America and distributed to drug cartels under Project Gunrunner and Operation Fast and Furious program....

tonyz

05-05-2011, 17:07

"Issa to Holder on Gunrunner: We’re looking at you and your key people."

As I may have suggested in previous posts here - an internally generated IG's report just will not be satisfactory for this one.

Heads at the top need to roll and the families compensated for this negligent bullshit - it was more than foreseeable for "walked guns" to wind up in the hands of the bad guys and then be pointed and fired at the good guys - it was predictable to a near certainty. The DOJ, ICE, Border Patrol, DEA, BATF, etc., and DHS readily admit they have little control over that border.

Given this early statement by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, March 2009...

"Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers and civilians. So, yes, I feel very strongly we have a co-responsibility."

...it may be interesting to watch and see if Hillary stands by that statement vis-à-vis the most recent revelations and Issa's involvement.

My guess is the press will give her a pass and not connect the dots.

JJ_BPK

05-05-2011, 17:17

I hope we can stay ahead of the shiite starting to pile up on the other side..

Big Sis and the Holder company is not doing their job..

Stand With Arizona (and Against Illegal Immigration)

As U.S. attention is focused overseas, one terror organization based in in the Mideast has established a 2nd home base across the border in Mexico. Hezbollah, responsible for hundreds of attacks - including the deaths of 241 U.S. servicemen in the 1983 Beirut bombing, has set up an elaborate network throughout Mexico. Will the U.S. ever wake up and secure the border before terrorists strike inside our nation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlZVvUZ8W0g&feature=channel_video_title

tonyz

05-05-2011, 17:35

JJ_BPK,

Thank you for sharing that video - it is very concerning - those tunnels always gave me great pause - never much of an explanation just a report that a tunnel had been found with some film footage. Very little information, if any, outlining the number, nature and extent of tunnels discovered. IIRC, each tunnel seemed to be treated by the press as an isolated event.

I would think that connecting those tunnels, the border violence issues and possible Hezbollah involvement should generate substantial concern - and action - maybe not until we get rid of Holder and this bunch.

incarcerated

05-05-2011, 22:57

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/04/1300-guns-bought-illegally-suspect-buyers-atfs-gunrunner-program/

More Than 1,300 Guns Were Bought Illegally by Suspect Buyers Under

ATF's 'Gunrunner' Program
By William La Jeunesse
Published May 04, 2011
FoxNews.com
It is the closest thing to a smoking gun congressional investigators have in their probe of Project Gunrunner -- a program that was intended to stop the flow of guns to criminals in Mexico but instead allowed those guns to be smuggled to Mexico instead.

An internal memo from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives shows that U.S. officials allowed criminals to buy 1,318 guns worth nearly $1 million, even after they suspected the buyers were working for Mexican drug cartels, and that the agency's effort to stop the guns had "yielded little or no results."

That memo came to light Wednesday at a Senate Judiciary Hearing and provided by Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa. The ATF memo shows a list of 15 suspects, all later indicted, who bought guns on behalf of Mexican cartels....

In a second, equally explosive disclosure, a law enforcement source tells Fox News, that ATF undercover agents were acting as the straw buyers and purchasing guns using government-issued false identifications and then providing those guns to cartel traffickers to gain credibility in their undercover roles. In that capacity, the ATF "provided 2, 50 cal. machine guns to traffickers that are loose in Mexico and unaccounted for," the source said.

Yet, the ATF and the Department of Justice did not shut down the operation.

According to Rep,. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., additional documents show:

-- U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona Dennis Burke was in full agreement with the investigative strategy of allowing the transfer of firearms from gun stores to straw buyers.

-- Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer knew about and even approved a wiretap application for suspects targeted in Operation Fast and Furious over a year ago. Issa on Wednesday released documents from Assistant Attorney General Breuer, head of the Criminal Division and a former White House counsel to President Bill Clinton that show he approved Operation Fast and Furious wiretaps.

A second document shows that Burke supported the strategy “to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place … in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of additional co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic firearms to Mexican [Drug Trafficking Organizations].”

"I am extremely disappointed in the Justice Department’s response to my inquiry," Grassley said Wednesday. "The ATF also clearly knew that these guns were being exported south of the border to Mexico."

Grassley has been dogged in his pursuit of Project Gunrunner since a single ATF whistleblower brought it to his attention in February following the death of Agent Brian Terry....

Paslode

05-06-2011, 09:55

Time for Daylight: U.S. Weapons Reaching Cartel Hands a Huge Scandal

Posted By Bob Owens On May 6, 2011 @ 12:00 am In Uncategorized | 23 Comments

The U.S. government is the top supplier of the most effective weapons in the narco-terrorist arsenal, a story that much of the U.S. media is trying hard to ignore.

Fox News has reported that the U.S. government is the ultimate source for the majority of cartel machine guns, as well as hand grenades and plastic explosives. These munitions have been used to kill law enforcement officers, government officials, and civilians. According to sources, the weapons get from our government to the cartels via three routes:

U.S. Defense Department shipments to Latin America, known and tracked by the U.S. State Department as “foreign military sales.”

Weapons ordered by the Mexican government, tracked by the State Department as “direct commercial sales.”

Aging but plentiful arsenals of military weapon stores in Honduras, Guatemala, and Nicaragua.

Firearms such as M16 and M4 assault rifles — real, selective-fire weapons that can fire as machine guns — are sold directly to cartels by corrupt soldiers in the Mexican military, some of the weapons in new or like-new condition. Anecdotal evidence suggests that at least some of these firearms are sold to the cartels by Mexican soldiers that have gone AWOL with individual weapons, but many more are coming directly from corrupt government and military officials with armory access.

Some AK-pattern rifles and other Russian-designed automatic weapons can be traced to Latin American nations where the U.S. provided the governments these weapons as military aid.

Many of the grenades recovered from the cartels came from U.S. military assistance to central American countries decades ago, where aging stockpiles are being sold to cartels.

American weapons in cartel hands range in age from decades-old to nearly new. The exact age and point of ingress for these weapons is generally obscured by the U.S. and Mexican governments, who would rather not reveal how and why these weapons are leaving government armories to arrive in extremely violent hands.

This reality is a far cry from claims made by the Obama administration and echoed by Mexican President Felipe Calderon, the false narrative dubbed the “90 percent lie.” President Obama has long pushed the fiction that U.S. gun stores catering to civilians in border states are responsible for supplying up to 90 percent of the firearms used by Mexican cartels. In this fantasy scenario, straw purchasers buy firearms by the gross from corrupt gun dealers and then ship them over the border to Mexico. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder peddled this tale as early as February of 2009, just one month after the president was sworn in.

The claim was quickly revealed to be an incontrovertible falsehood. Only eight percent of firearms recovered by Mexican authorities came from U.S. gun shops — it remains to be seen how many of those were a result of Holder’s Justice Department knowingly allowing thousands of weapons to be shipped to cartels as part of the ATF’s “Gunwalker” scandal. Two of the weapons the ATF allowed to enter Mexico were captured from Mexican cartel members in Arizona after U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned down in the line of duty.

“Gunwalker” has led to congressional inquiries and has inspired National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre to call for Attorney General Holder’s resignation: “When does it stop being law enforcement and start being a criminal enterprise? Innocent people are dying. It makes no sense at all.”

While Holder and Obama have been pushing the narrative that gun control is the solution to Mexican violence — and the ATF was ensuring the delivery of weapons to drug dealers to build a case for gun control — the federal government sold $177 million of weaponry to Mexico, including $20 million for small arms .

Any reasonable American now has to wonder if the legal weapons shipped by our government — and the illegal weapons shipped with government knowledge — will be used to kill American civilians and to prop up narco-terrorist gangs threatening our southern border.

The plan for a long gun registry is still one of the president’s goals, even as he creates the problem for which he proposes the solution. A virulent anti-gun radical since his days with the Joyce Foundation, Obama has previously stooped to despicable levels in order to pursue his gun control agenda. He now wants to use the bully pulpit of his office to play both arsonist and firefighter, and is willing to watch northern Mexico and the American southwest burn in order to restrict a constitutional right he has always abhorred.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-for-daylight-u-s-weapons-reaching-cartel-hands-a-huge-scandal/

Paslode

05-07-2011, 08:52

Progress?

Nearly five months after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned down near the Arizona-Mexico border, today a federal judge unsealed 14 count indictment charging Manuel Osorio-Arellanes and at least two others with Terry's murder.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20060619-10391695.html

But a Gunwalker Bird Dog says......

But now, after doing nothing but covering up for almost five months, the DOJ will say with this oh-too-convenient indictment, that it is a MURDER investigation that Issa and Holder are dabbling with so DOJ still can't cooperate with the subpoenas. What horseshit.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/05/finally-charges-in-terry-murder.html

tonyz

05-10-2011, 16:12

NRA Chief wants Holder to Resign - he called on Obama to order ATF and Justice Department officials to testify before Congress and disclose more details of their programs.

Excerpts:

“Mr. President, it’s time to come clean: stop the stonewalling and stop the lies because the lying is getting people killed every day,” LaPierre said. “Our government has been willing to let people die to advance their assault on the Second Amendment. Our southern border proves it.”

“Operation Fast and Furious may have gotten one or perhaps two federal agents killed, and countless other innocent victims have been murdered with the illegal guns that our own government allowed into Mexico all to advance a political agenda,” he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53994.html#ixzz1LzRF8ueP

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53994.html

Paslode

05-19-2011, 06:46

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/05/dea-phoenix-reported-to-have-stumbled.html

DEA Phoenix reported to have stumbled across 50-60 "Fast & Furious" Kalashnikovs. ATF scrambles to contain their gift that keeps on giving.

JJ_BPK

05-19-2011, 07:10

Is the WH going to Spike the Ball on this Fabulous event??

How many Navy SEALs did the hit take??

Headline News "ATF contributes to the 16 trillion deficit reduction by selling recycled AK-47's to Mexican Drug Dealers,, this effort is co-sponsored by the NAFTA Union(s) Pension Fund"

NAFTA ref: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tratado_de_Libre_Comercio_de_Am%C3%A9rica_del_Nort e

Paslode

05-19-2011, 19:01

CBS reports....DEA accidentally finds guns from ATF "gunwalker"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20064443-10391695.html

incarcerated

06-07-2011, 02:22

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/165031-subpoenas-are-coming-in-probe-of-gun-tracking-program

Subpoenas are coming in probe of Dept. of Justice gun-tracking program

By Jordy Yager - 06/06/11 08:19 PM ET
The chairman of the House Oversight Committee will use the power of the subpoena to learn if a federal gun-tracking program contributed to the killing of a Border Patrol agent.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) is planning to issue a number of subpoenas to federal officials with ties to the controversial program, which was run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

The move by Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, comes on the tail end of a series of interviews with government officials and witnesses that the panel’s investigators conducted last month. Sources said the interviews produced a plethora of new evidence and information regarding who gave the ultimate go-ahead for ATF’s “Fast and Furious” operation.

“Fast and Furious” was part of the five-year-old Gunrunner program. It authorized local U.S. gun stores to sell thousands of semiautomatic rifles to suspected and known straw-purchasers for Mexican drug cartels....

The subpoenas, which Issa said will be issued to key Washington-based government officials with ties to the operation, are slated to serve as a launching pad for a new series of hearings on the matter.

Issa has been critical of the Department of Justice (DOJ), which oversees the ATF, for not turning over all of the documents he’s requested and not making available all of the officials he’s wanted to interview, sometimes citing ongoing gun-tracking investigations and prosecutions.

“We have a slew of subpoenas we expect to be issuing for people here in Washington,” Issa said in an interview with Fox News on Sunday.

“What we haven’t gotten one bit of is — here in Washington, far away from the actual investigation and prosecutions that they seem to be using as a façade to protect them — here in Washington, they’re not making one agent available, one hierarchy available, and we will be issuing subpoenas because we have to,” Issa said.

Next Monday the committee is scheduled to hold a hearing titled “Obstruction of Justice: Does the Justice Department Have to Respond to Lawfully Issued and Valid Congressional Subpoena?”

Committee aides have not released a witness list yet, but confirmed that this was the first of several hearings on the matter.

Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) have led the congressional hunt for more information about the ATF operation and its approval. The lawmakers have said repeatedly that they are being “stonewalled” by DOJ.

Grassley — who does not have the same subpoena power as Issa — has vowed to hold up President Obama’s nominations in the Senate until he gets the documents and information that he has requested on the operation.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said that the Fast and Furious operation was first brought to his attention sometime around April. He quickly launched an Inspector General (IG) investigation into the matter earlier this year, and has deferred many questions about the operation until that probe is complete.

“The inspector general will be looking at who exactly was involved, what the level of knowledge was, who should be held accountable, if in fact there were mistakes that were made,” Holder said in testimony before the House Judiciary Committee in May.

“Under no circumstances in any investigation that we bring should guns be allowed to be distributed in an uncontrolled manner,” Holder said.

The DOJ did not respond to a request for comment.

Earlier this year, Issa subpoenaed the DOJ for documents relating to the operation. The day before Holder was set to appear before the House Judiciary Committee, the DOJ sent over about 20 percent of the requested documents and told the committee that the remaining documents — about 400 pages — could be made available for review, but could not be handed over to the committee because of their sensitivity.

There is still a large cache of requested documents that the DOJ has not produced for the committee.

rdret1

06-09-2011, 04:56

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/06/08/weapons-arsenal-found-in-mexico-contains-guns-from-us-probe/

Mexican police in late April raided a home in Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas. They reported finding a cache that included two dozen AK-47-style rifles, three antiaircraft machine guns, dozens of grenades and more than 26,000 rounds of ammunition.

I agree that the BATFE screwed the pooch big time on this operation, but in this entire article, there is only one mention of THREE AA GUNS! These guys had some sort of anti-aircraft capability and grenades and they are worried about a few semi-auto AK's?

Paslode

06-09-2011, 06:41

Wednesday, June 08, 2011
Chairman Issa Gears Up To Take On DOJ
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 12:21 AM

Congressman Darrell Issa was my guest in studio for the first hour of Tuesday's show, and the transcript provides a roadmap to where the House Governmental Affairs and Oversight Committee has been since Issa took the gavel and where it is going in the next few months. Read the whole thing, but if you haven't begun to study up on the DOJ/ATF operation branded "Fast and Furious," start now. The key excerpt on that investigation:

HH: "Fast and Furious." If you do not know this, this is going to be an enormous story. I was stopped by a young Mexican law student in Phoenix yesterday at the Alliance Defense Fund who said "Professor Hewitt, what do you think is going to happen in Mexico?" and I said we cannot allow a failed state to exist there. But Darrell Issa, this Fast and Furious program run by the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is just stunning. Would you explain to people what it is and what your committee is looking into?

DI: Well, Hugh, this is often called Project Gunrunner, because it was really about knowingly, deliberately letting guns be sold to straw purchasers who were going to supply them to the narco-terrorist groups on both sides of the border, and they did. And even at our discovery, our investigation, which is now, you know, 20 subpoenas, incredible amount of depositions, leading up to the office of the Attorney General, has shown us that this was authorized at the highest level. They regret that it went badly, that two American agents are now dead, and countless Mexicans are dead, and 2,000 weapons, 1,600 of them are still unaccounted for. They regret it, but they’re probably still doing similar programs. And that’s why this is such a big thing. If you think you can let guns walk in order to “lead to the bad guys”, you’re missing the whole point of law enforcement. You don’t let drugs walk, you don’t let the money walk, you don’t let guns walk. You do that, you’re part of the crime.

.[# More #]

HH: You know, there’s a tremendous novelist, lives maybe in your district, T. Jefferson Parker, and he has written a number of books, and I’ve interviewed him about the gun trade from north to south. It’s vicious, and it’s violent. But when did this Fast and Furious program start that countenanced, basically, Americans selling guns with the effort to sting someone on the other side? When did it start?

DI: It started with this administration.

HH: It is?

DI: It started with, literally, the political appointees, many of whom had to approve specifics of this, including funding. And understand, there were agents at the ATF who have testified that they believe this was a good program. And there are agents who gave up their careers, basically, by refusing to be involved in it. So it was controversial. But it’s not about the agents in Arizona, or a similar program in Texas. It’s about the approvals all the way back in Washington. This is the Iran Contra decision. The Iran Contra decision was made by people around the President in the White House. This decision was made at least by people in the Office of Attorney General Holder. And they’re hiding behind every delay tactic they can, claiming that we’re going to interfere with an investigation. I’ve got to tell you, Hugh, I don’t want anyone to walk because of our investigation. But if some meth addict doesn’t get a strong sentence for buying guns, that’s probably not the worst damage if this kind of program continues, and we believe it continues to today.

HH: Is there any evidence that Attorney General Holder approved the selling of these guns?

DI: There is evidence all the way up to Lanny Brewer in the office, a very famous name from the past. And he is an immediate assistant of Eric Holder. President Obama, as a good lawyer, used his terms very carefully. He said neither I nor Attorney General Holder authorized this program. There’s a long way between authorized and knew.

HH: Has Attorney General Holder appeared in front of your committee yet?

DI: He has not. As a matter of fact, they have been refusing to even go through depositions voluntarily. We had a deal with them, and candidly, they reneged on it the moment my plane was off the ground. So far, we have had to issue more subpoenas on this than all others combined in all other investigations. This has been the real investigation where you can see the stonewalling, and you can see it for a reason. People got people killed, and they were people who are appointed by this President.

HH: So American agents may have been murdered as a result of this program?

DI: Their guns were found, with those serial numbers, at the scene, and by the way, long time after emails indicate that they knew this program was out of control.

HH: And so in terms of that chain of command, have you subpoenaed the Attorney General yet to come?

DI: We have not. One of the natures of this investigation is we’re going through this step by step, because we want to understand is there a problem at Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire all the way up to Washington? Is there a problem at Justice? The one thing I can tell you today is this was a joint task force operation. So DEA, Justice Department, the U.S. attorney in Arizona, all these elements had to be part of it, which is what should really tell you there’s something wrong at the highest levels, but there may be something wrong in the ability for somebody at a operative level to pull the stop cable. It doesn’t appear as though we had it. And candidly, that’s what concerns me. There should be a culture in a law enforcement that says if something’s really wrong, you don’t just obey the orders.

HH: Now…I’m talking with House Committee Chairman Darrell Issa about the Oversight and Governmental Reform Committee, and the various investigations there. The Department of Justice has been a source of a lot of surprises, Darrell Issa, in the first two and a half years of the Obama administration, including the attempt to try terrorists in New York, including the attempt at closing Gitmo. Eric Holder was not in the Situation Room the night that bin Laden was killed. Were you surprised by that, that there was no DOJ official in the Situation Room?

DI: It’s pretty obvious that this administration did a U-turn and didn’t bother to use their turn signals. Guantanamo is still open, there’s a fine dead and execute order on an American citizen who’s a radical cleric in Yemen. Many of the things that would have been absolutely rioted over under Bush are commonplace under this administration. And it’s the hypocrisy that bothers me. I supported the Bush administration, didn’t always agree with them, but at least they were honest about what they believed and what they were doing. This administration does one thing, takes the Nobel Peace Prize, and then sends a billion dollars worth of missiles raining down on other people’s heads.

HH: But is the DOJ its most radical department? Are the ideologues congregated there to a greater extent than they are elsewhere?

DI: I think to a certain extent they are, although I don’t think they hold a candle to EPA. Very clearly, though, Eric Holder, Lanny Brewer, and these other political appointees, have a strong record of having justice be whatever the President wants.

HH: Now I have a question that is more in perspetive.

DI: …and by the way, not since Nixon has someone been able to say that and had no one argue back.

HH: Yeah, well that’s, it’s, that which is obvious is not arguable.

I also cover the debt ceiling and the House GOP's propensity to cave, Congressman Weiner, Elizabeth Warren, other czars, federal workforce reduction and the EPA among other subjects. Chairman Issa, like Budget Committee Chair Paul Ryan, shows the rest of the GOP leadership how to advance the agenda, which is long form interviews covering multiple subjects allowing for follow-up.

Every chairman as well as Speaker John Boehner, GOP Leader Eric Cantor and GOP Whip Kevin McCarthy ought to be seeking out the venues in which they can make their case, not waiting for the MSM to fairly and fully report the true nature and stakes of the debates underway --which is never going to happen.

http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/ce75cfb9-ac52-4686-b54c-0023c2ffb38e

rdret1

06-10-2011, 09:43

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/09/justice-officials-in-panic-mode-as-new-testimony-is-expected-to-reveal-depth/

It will be interesting to hear some of the testimony coming out of this, as well as the reasoning behind letting it go so far. I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder be replaced. Maybe some of the BATFE chain of command as well.

The Reaper

06-10-2011, 09:58

I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder be replaced. Maybe some of the BATFE chain of command as well.

Not going to happen to Holder. He is carrying the POTUS' water.

TR

rdret1

06-10-2011, 10:06

Not going to happen to Holder. He is carrying the POTUS' water.

TR

In this case though, he is going to be a lightening rod. How is he going to be able to justify knowing what the program was doing and still allowing it to continue? I am sure the family of those killed in connection with the trafficked guns will testify. He will be asked some tough questions he can't answer.

Streck-Fu

06-10-2011, 16:59

rdret1

06-11-2011, 01:55

incarcerated

06-14-2011, 14:24

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/06/14/obama_administration_may_be_held_in_contempt_of_co ngress

Obama Administration May Be Held in Contempt of Congress

June 14, 2011
Katie Pavlich
Presidential administration officials have been held in contempt only 12 times since Watergate in the 1970s, but number 13 may be on its way. Attorney General Eric Holder has refused to supply the House Oversight Committee with requested documents surrounding Operation Fast and Furious, the lethal and botched operation in which thousands of semi-automatic weapons were illegally sent over the border and into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. The operation resulted in the death of thousands of Mexican citizens and Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, and involved the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (a division of Holder’s Justice Department.)
Yesterday, during a hearing on Capitol Hill examining whether the DOJ must respond to a lawfully issued and valid Congressional subpoena, multiple witnesses confirmed that the DOJ is not above the law and must, in fact, comply with the subpoena. The witnesses, which included Commissioner on Wartime Contracting Professor Charles Tiefer, American Public Law Specialist at the Library of Congress Morton Rosenberg, and Legislative Attorney Todd Tatelman, confirmed it is a Constitutional duty for Congress to oversee and question executive branch activities.

“The Justice Department is not immune from these investigations,” Rosenberg said.

The hearing sustained that both the House and Senate Congressional Oversight Committees have the absolute right to pursue and obtain information surrounding actions taken by the executive branch, as was the Founding Fathers’ intention in limiting the size and power of the President and his administration. Legally, the executive branch can decline providing the Congressional Oversight Committees with requested documentation only when the President invokes a Privilege Law, which shields the release of certain information. In this case, President Obama has yet to do so, and at this point in time, the House Oversight Committee has full rights to the requested documents.

The Obama Justice Department has been stonewalling the House Oversight Committee for months, citing ongoing investigations within the DOJ surrounding Operation Fast and Furious, in addition to claiming the House Oversight Committee does not have the authority to access the requested information.

“As things stand now, they owe you the documents,” Professor Tiefer said while giving testimony, adding there is no Constitutional basis for the DOJ’s refusal.

The little documentation currently available for the Congressional Oversight Committee is only the information accessible by the general public, hundreds of pages of which have been so redacted that the Committee has been unable to obtain much useful information about the Operation. They have made little progress in getting to the bottom of the scandal, and there is no way the Committee can satisfy its Constitutional duty to oversee the executive branch when the only information presented is heavily redacted material.

“I don’t think it’s appropriate and I think it sends the wrong signal that there may be some things they [DOJ] don’t want you to see,” said Morton when answering a question about the validity of hundreds of redacted documents from the DOJ.

Congressman Darrell Issa’s attempts to look into operations conducted by the Obama Justice Department are nothing new. Congressional Oversight investigations are regular occurrences throughout U.S. history, including Watergate, Iran-Contra, the Tea Pot Dome Scandal, and the Bush Administration FBI informant program.

Issa’s requests are simple. He wants to know what happened, how high up in command the operation went, who ordered the operation, how the government can avoid this type of botched and lethal operation in the future and what the consequences of bad decisions made by officials in the DOJ have led to.

“Nobody wants to have to go to this step,” Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah said when commenting on whether the DOJ will be held in contempt. “But you have a president and an attorney general who claim to be oblivious to what went on.”

A second hearing is scheduled for tomorrow, when the family of murdered Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry will testify.

“I want the people who killed Agent Brian Terry to be tried and convicted.” –Rep. Issa

rdret1

06-14-2011, 18:23

If they haven't forced Geithner out out on the economy, this won't get Holder out of Justice.

Gunrunner timeline: LINK (http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/04/hillary-eric-wikileaks-and-batfe.html)

The main difference here is that no one has died as a direct result of the economy. Per Incarcerated's link, Congress is getting worked up about the oversight of the operation. IMO, this will be a major issue in the next couple of years with dire consequences for not only the ATF, but the DOJ as well. This may eventually be worse for Holder than Waco was for Reno.

scooter

06-14-2011, 18:50

I'm not sure if Holder will go down for this, bus someone is going to get caught without a chair when the music stops.

The President has made repeated claims that a large number of guns used in the violence down south came from the US. His administration is now found to be complicit in this, and has caused the death of US Border Patrol personnel. I don't think Congress, particularly the GOP, is just going to let this one slide.

Paslode

06-18-2011, 14:23

Melson is likely to be thrown under the bus, and Anti-Gunner Andy Traver is waiting in the hall........

WSJ: The Gunwalker Man headed for the door. Traver to replace him. More fun with hearings ahead. If Melson goes, Melson will roll. (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/06/gunwalker-man-headed-for-door-traver-to.html)

Iraqgunz

06-20-2011, 03:58

I want to know why the Demoncrats aren't screaming about this. Especially Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein who are always screaming about "evil firearms". They salivate at the mouth thinking about a day when they can enact gun control, portray gun owners as "irresponsible" and now we know that the BATFE faciliated the movement of weapons into Mexico which resulted in the death of a USBP agent and Mexican nationals.

Why are they so silent? Where is Mayor Bloomberg? He has the balls to send his stooges to Arizona and conduct "sting operations" so why isn't he demanding that those at the DOJ and BATFE be held responsible for their actions?

AG Holder knew what was going on and I am fairly sure so did the POTUS. I hope that Republicans follow through on this and DEMAND that we be given answers. The government endangered not only the lives of Mexican nationals, but American citizens as well.

rdret1

06-20-2011, 10:31

grog18b

06-20-2011, 16:24

God bless the family of the murdered Border Patrol agent, and, I hope all of those responsible are brought to Justice. Some might not have far to walk...

I hope BP Agent's family sues the HELL out of some of those named already.

Tress

06-20-2011, 16:38

CNN is presently reporting that Melson is going to resign.....

Washington (CNN) -- Kenneth Melson, acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, is expected to resign under pressure, perhaps in the next day or two, in the wake of the controversy over Operation Fast and Furious, two senior federal law enforcement sources said Monday.

In the operation, straw buyers were allowed to purchase illegally large numbers of weapons, some of which ended up in the hands of cartels in Mexico.

Attorney General Eric Holder will meet Tuesday with Andrew Traver, head of the ATF field office in Chicago, about possibly becoming the agency's acting director, according to senior federal law enforcement sources, who are familiar with the details of the controversy.

The Justice Department refused comment. White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters he had no new information on the issue.

The operation has come under intense criticism since the December killing of a U.S. Border Patrol officer.

Operation Fast and Furious was "a colossal failure of leadership," Peter Forcelli, a supervisor at the bureau's Phoenix field office, said recently.

The program focused on following people who legally bought weapons that were then transferred to criminals and destined for Mexico. But instead of intercepting the weapons when they switched hands, Operation Fast and Furious called for ATF agents to let the guns "walk" and wait for them to surface in Mexico, according to a report by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

The idea was that once the weapons in Mexico were traced back to the straw purchasers, the entire arms smuggling network could be brought down. Instead, the report argues, letting the weapons slip into the wrong hands was a deadly miscalculation that resulted in preventable deaths, including that of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Terry was killed last year north of the Mexican border in Arizona after confronting bandits believed to be preying on illegal immigrants. Two weapons found near the scene of the killing were traced to Fast and Furious.

"I was flabbergasted. I couldn't believe it at first," Terry's mother, Josephine, said when she learned the ATF may have let some of the guns used in the attack slip through its fingers. Terry's relatives said they want all those involved in his killing and who helped put the weapons in their hands to be prosecuted.

"We ask that if a government official made a wrong decision, that they admit their error and take responsibility for his or her actions," Robert Heyer, Terry's cousin and family spokesman, said in a hearing last week by the House panel.

The committee's chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-California, called the operation "felony stupid." As many as 2,000 semiautomatic rifles reached the hands of cartels as a result, and Issa said the top two ATF officials were briefed on the program regularly.

In Mexico, the case has drawn nationwide attention and sharp criticism from top officials, who have long stressed that U.S. weapons are fueling the country's drug war.

The Mexican attorney general's office demanded a quick U.S. investigation of the matter in March and said authorities must hold accountable anyone who was responsible for the operation.

"As the United States government has signaled, the government of Mexico was not informed of any operation that would include the controlled transport of weapons to Mexico," the office said.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/20/us.fast.and.furious/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

rdret1

06-20-2011, 16:44

CNN is presently reporting that Melson is going to resign.....

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/20/us.fast.and.furious/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

He is just the scapegoat getting thrown under the bus. I find it hard to believe that the decision to go ahead with this fiasco stopped at his desk.

Tress

06-20-2011, 16:58

Originally posted by rdret1:

He is just the scapegoat getting thrown under the bus. I find it hard to believe that the decision to go ahead with this fiasco stopped at his desk.

I agree completely that the Obama re-election campaign bus is about to turn Melson into scapegoat roadkill. But, does anyone else find it interesting or is surprised that the individual allegedly being talked to as Melson's replacement is from the "Chicago" field office?

Sigaba

06-20-2011, 17:32

"Chicago"I don't see a problem with this at all. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform video of hearings on Operation FAST AND FURIOUS are available. 13 June 2011 is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1wKawb6JI) and 15 June 2011 is there (http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1335%3A6-15-11-qoperation-fast-and-furious-reckless-decisions-tragic-outcomesq&catid=12&Itemid=20).

Paslode

06-20-2011, 17:50

I agree completely that the Obama re-election campaign bus is about to turn Melson into scapegoat roadkill. But, does anyone else find it interesting or is surprised that the individual allegedly being talked to as Melson's replacement is from the "Chicago" field office?

Traver is a big time anti-gunner. Most notably he is a member of the IACP which is sponsored by the Soros funded Joyce Foundation. He is a bad dude.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/07/no-wonder-mayor-daley-has-been-wearing.html

rdret1

06-20-2011, 18:11

Traver is a big time anti-gunner. Most notably he is a member of the IACP which is sponsored by the Soros funded Joyce Foundation. He is a bad dude.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/07/no-wonder-mayor-daley-has-been-wearing.html

Found my own answer.

sinjefe

06-20-2011, 18:35

I work as a Counter Narcotics / Terrorism advisor to the Mexican Army. To them, Project Gunrunner and its fallout is an ankle biter. I know I have said it before, but this whole thing about US guns flowing south is more a manufactured issue than not. Though anecdotal, the Mexican Officers I work with indicate that many of the illegal firearms they find are left overs from the Latin American cold war conflicts. There is no excuse for the handling of Project Gunrunner. However, the media is making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Mismanaged, yes, but straw purchases occur at the behest of law enforcement all the time in order to attempt to dismantle the entire operation. They do the same thing with drugs. It's easy to be critical with it being this administration (I don't like them either). Interested to see what LEOs that have experience in this have to say.

BigJimCalhoun

06-20-2011, 20:45

Paragrouper

06-20-2011, 22:04

incarcerated

06-23-2011, 00:01

Interesting article here, implying that the whole thing was an orchestrated attempt to create violence to promote the need for gun control.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mega-scandal-was-gunwalker-a-pr-op-for-gun-control/?singlepage=true

More on that theme:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=576172&p=1

Editorial: Was Fast And Furious A Gun-Control Plot?

Posted 06:47 PM ET
Scandal: Rather than a botched attempt to catch criminals, was the ATF program actually an attempt to advance gun-control efforts by an administration that has blamed Mexican violence on easy access to U.S. weapons?

If "Operation Fast and Furious" was merely a botched attempt at law enforcement, why was a supervisor of the operation, David Voth, "jovial, if not, not giddy but just delighted about" marked guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico, as career Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent John Dodson told Rep. Darrell Issa's House Oversight Committee?

Perhaps because all was going as planned until it was learned that two of the AK-47s recovered at the scene of the fatal shooting of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in December were bought in ATF's Operation Fast and Furious. That wasn't supposed to happen.

"Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals — this was the plan," Dodson testified to the panel. "It was so mandated."

ATF agent Olindo James Casa said that "on several occasions I personally requested to interdict or seize firearms, but I was always ordered to stand down and not to seize the firearms."

Yet, as we've noted, gun-tracking operations stopped at the border. That seems odd if the purpose was to catch gun traffickers and their drug-lord bosses. It makes sense, however, if the real purpose was to perpetuate, in the interests of pursuing the administration's gun-control agenda, what Bob Owens of Pajamas Media calls the "90% lie."

Unwilling to guarantee a secure southern border, and as part of a campaign to reinstate an expired assault weapons ban, the administration has charged that much of Mexico's gun violence is our fault. Both governments have pushed the myth that 90% of weapons confiscated by Mexican authorities originate in the U.S.

Fox News has reported that, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico sent about 11,000 guns to the U.S. for tracing in 2007-08, out of about 35,000 confiscated. Of that 11,000, 6,000 were successfully traced. And of that number, 5,114, or 90%, were found to have originated in the U.S.

Weapons that originated in foreign countries are not sent to the U.S. for tracing. Neither are weapons of Mexican army deserters or those stolen from armories.

Bill McMahon, ATF deputy assistant director, testified that of 100,000 weapons recovered by Mexican authorities, only 18,000 were made, sold or imported from the U.S. And of those 18,000, just 7,900 came from sales by licensed gun dealers. That's 8%, not 90%.

So why the lie and why create Fast and Furious, a program designed to put dangerous weapons into criminal hands? We forget that from 1994 to 2002 President Obama was a director of the Joyce Foundation, a progressive organization dedicated to "social justice" and eroding Second Amendment rights.

Obama has advocated what he called "sensible restrictions" on gun ownership and even thought the District of Columbia's total gun ban was constitutional before the U.S. Supreme Court ruled otherwise.

During the 2008 campaign, when Hillary Clinton attacked Obama's famous remark about bitter Pennsylvania townsfolk clinging to their guns, then-Sen. Obama dismissingly called her "Annie Oakley" and said she was pandering to gun owners.

Was Fast and Furious merely a poorly conceived scheme about which Attorney General Eric Holder and President Obama knew little or nothing? Or was it a deliberate attempt to inflate the embarrassingly low true number of guns traceable to the U.S.?

Was Watergate just a third-rate burglary?

rdret1

06-26-2011, 18:15

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/25/atf-director-melson-reportedly-resisting-pressure-to-step-down/?test=latestnews

Maybe if Melson holds out long enough, he might start squealing on some higher ups. He doesn't want to be the fall guy by himself.

sinjefe

06-27-2011, 12:58

I thought this appropriate for the discussion

Paslode

06-27-2011, 20:15

Assault weapons linked to ATF strategy turn up in Valley neighborhoods

Posted: 06/27/2011
Last Updated: 1 hour and 5 minutes ago

By: Lori Jane Gliha

PHOENIX - The ABC15 Investigators have uncovered new information showing weapons linked to a questionable government strategy are turning up in crimes in Valley neighborhoods.

For months we've been searching through police reports and official government documents to uncover whether assault weapons linked to a controversial ATF plan put Valley communities at risk.

Agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recently testified during a Congressional hearing, saying they knowingly allowed weapons to slip into the hands of buyers who would then distribute the weapons to known criminals.

The strategy was supposed to lead ATF officials to drug cartel leaders, but agents admitted they never followed the weapons to see where they went.

As a result, they testified, hundreds of weapons are now on the streets in the United States and Mexico, in the hands of criminals.

On Thursday, watch ABC15 News at 10pm to see the official documents that prove guns connected to the ATF strategy are in Valley neighborhoods.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/assault-weapons-linked-to-atf-strategy-turn-up-in-valley-neighborhoods

tonyz

06-28-2011, 06:45

'Project Gunrunner' Whistleblower Says ATF Sent Him Termination Notice
By Maxim Lott

Published June 27, 2011
| FoxNews.com

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/27/atf-to-fire-gunrunner-whistleblower/#ixzz1QZeeNEQW

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is being accused of retaliating against an agent who helped publicize the agency’s role in allowing thousands of guns to cross the U.S. border and fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs.

The agent, Vince Cefalu, who has spoken out about the ATF's so-called "Project Gunrunner" scandal, says he was served with termination papers just last week, and he calls the move politically motivated.

“Aside from Jay Dobyns, I don't know of anyone that's been more vocal about ATF mismanagement than me,” said Cefalu, a senior special agent based in Dublin, Calif. “That's why this is happening.” Dobyns, an ATF special agent based in Tucson, has appeared several times on Fox News to discuss the scandal.

ATF vince cefalu1

ATF agent Vince Cefalu ten years ago, dressed to go undercover and infiltrate motorcycle gangs.

Cefalu first told FoxNews.com about the ATF’s embattled anti-gun smuggling operation in December, before the first reports on the story appeared in February. “Simply put, we knowingly let hundreds of guns and dozens of identified bad guys go across the border,” Cefalu said at the time.

Since then, Cefalu’s claims have been vindicated, as a number of agents with first-hand knowledge of the case came forward. The scandal over Project Gunrunner led to congressional hearings, a presidential reprimand – Obama called the operation “a serious mistake” – and speculation that ATF chief Ken Melson will resign.

Yet last week, Cefalu, who has worked for the agency for 24 years, was forced to turn in his gun and badge. He can appeal but will be on “paid administrative leave” during the process.

Cefalu’s dismissal follows a string of allegations that the ATF retaliates against whistleblowers. When the Project Gunrunner scandal broke, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, wrote the ATF that an agent who had been giving his staff members information about the scandal had been "allegedly accused... of misconduct" by the agent’s boss for talking with Grassley’s staffers.

And two days before Cefalu was served with termination papers, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, sent a letter to the ATF warning officials not to retaliate against whistleblowers.

ATF spokesman Drew Wade denied in a statement to FoxNews.com that the bureau is retaliating, but he declined to comment about Cefalu's case. “ATF will not comment on specific, ongoing personnel matters. It is illegal to use disciplinary actions to retaliate against employees, and ATF does not engage in such improper reprisals.”

The ATF's termination letter to Cefalu, obtained by FoxNews.com, makes no mention of Cefalu’s role in the latest scandal.

“You think they would just come out and say that?” Cefalu said.

The letter instead says that Cefalu should be fired because he leaked documents on a website he helped create, CleanupATF.org, and showed a “lack of candor” on past projects, in particular a 2005 operation that Cefalu led. Cefalu admits he made information about the case public but says he did so only after redacting sensitive parts and exhausting internal channels.

In the 2005 case, local police wanted to wiretap a suspect to gather evidence, but Cefalu objected, saying it would be illegal to use wiretaps until all other options for gathering evidence had been tried.

Cefalu was then removed from the case. But he continued to speak out and file internal complaints about what he viewed as illegal ATF wiretapping. And that’s when his life became difficult.

“That was the beginning of the end,” Cefalu told FoxNews.com.

“I had never had a disciplinary action in 18 years. Outstanding evaluations -- above average -- and on the 19th year, when I filed a complaint, I get my first unsatisfactory evaluation ever.”

Cefalu showed a copy of his 2005 evaluation to FoxNews.com, in which his supervisor, Dennis Downs, noted: “Not only have you meet [sic] performance expectations, you have exceeded them.”

But that changed after 2005, Cefalu said. He received unsatisfactory evaluations complaining about his use of foul language. The termination letter also notes there were complaints about his smoking and “even your hygiene.”

Another ATF agent, who requested to remain anonymous but who has provided accurate information on the Project Gunrunner case to FoxNews.com in the past, discussed what he knew about Cefalu.

“Common knowledge in the agency is that Cefalu outed an illegal wiretap quite some time ago, and he has been in the crosshairs since,” the agent told FoxNews.com. “My impression of him is that he has probably ruffled lots of feathers and delicate egos in his time. He is very direct and honest.”

But this agent said he'd “prefer that to a ‘go along to get along’ type."

"We don't avoid or learn from mistakes if we just lie to each other about how we never do anything wrong -- which is pretty much standard operating procedure from what I have seen of our HQ people," the agent said.

Cefalu said his work on the Project Gunrunner scandal likely was the last straw for his bosses.

“I think it’s obvious why they’re doing this. It was my willingness to expose (Project Gunrunner) and support other people to come forward,” Cefalu said.

Paslode

06-28-2011, 07:05

In my mind the highligted areas depict how out of touched and/or F'd up the Federal Government is. Our Representatives, the ones we elect and send to DC to watch out for the best interest of the Nation have to make a deal or BRIBE each other to get to the bottom of a potential criminal act and a threat to the nation.

Obama Gun-Sting Breakthrough
Thanks to a clever bipartisan deal, embattled ATF chief Kenneth Melson will testify before Congress about his role in the bungled Fast and Furious gun sting—possibly revealing who on Obama’s team was in on the scheme.
by John Solomon | June 27, 2011 4:52 PM EDT

The head of the embattled federal agency that combats gun trafficking has agreed to talk with Senate investigators, a potentially important breakthrough as Congress tries to determine whether higher-ups in the Obama administration knew about a controversial sting that let assault weapons flow across the border into Mexico’s drug wars.

The testimony—expected next month from Kenneth Melson, the acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives—was brokered as part of a deal between Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and the committee’s top Republican, Iowa's Charles Grassley. Grassley and his fellow Republicans were given full access to ATF documents, Melson, and other key witnesses; and in return, Grassley agreed to release three Obama administration nominees he had been blocking, according to correspondence obtained by NEWSWEEK and THE DAILY BEAST.

Grassley had been fighting to get full access for months. He finally got it with a letter Leahy wrote to Attorney General Eric Holder requesting access for both his staff and Grassley’s investigators to the evidence and witnesses in the gun-sting investigation. In return, Grassley agreed to let proceed the nominations of Jim Cole to be deputy attorney general, Lisa Monaco to be assistant attorney general for national security, and Virginia Seitz to be head of the Office of Legal Counsel, the letter shows.

ATF has acknowledged it knowingly allowed more than 1,700 weapons—most of them semiautomatic assault weapons like AK-47s—to be sold by cooperating U.S. gun dealers to suspected straw buyers for the Mexican cartels during a 15-month sting in Arizona known as Operation Fast and Furious. Melson is the highest-known official to date to acknowledge approving a strategy to build criminal cases against Mexican drug cartels by allowing assault weapons to flow from U.S. gun stores through straw buyers and across the border. Officials said his testimony is considered a key piece of evidence, and Grassley’s investigators plan to interview him by the middle or end of July.

The revelation of the botched sting has generated outrage in both the United States and Mexico. Nearly half the weapons were later recovered at crime scenes on both sides of the border, including two at the murder of U.S. border agent Brian Terry last December and more than 300 at Mexican crime scenes. In recent days, evidence has emerged in the investigations conducted by Grassley and House Oversight and Government Reform Committee chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) that the deputy attorney general’s office inside the Justice Department encouraged a new gun-fighting strategy in October 2009, just days before ATF started the Fast and Furious operation.

Holder, the attorney general, has denied knowing about the controversial ATF sting, which ran from November 2009 to February 2011, and he has ordered an internal investigation. President Obama has said he believes serious mistakes may have been made. Since the controversy erupted this spring, ATF and federal prosecutors have been ordered to stop all guns flowing to straw buyers. Frontline ATF agents have testified they strongly objected to the agency’s decision to “let guns walk,” meaning allowing straw buyers to buy guns with ATF’s knowledge and letting the weapons leave federal monitoring without being interdicted, the normal practice. Cooperating gun dealers also expressed concerns about the tactic.

“

“Instead of tracking and making every effort to interdict guns, agents were being ordered to let criminals walk away with them.”
”

Congressional investigators in both chambers want to know whether Melson discussed or sought approval for the strategy from Holder or his top deputies, the White House, or other senior law-enforcement officers. They also want to know whether Melson’s agency has run into roadblocks or poor information sharing in its efforts to combat larger gun trafficking.

As head of the agency that conducted the controversial sting, Melson has faced calls for his resignation. But in private conversations with congressional investigators in recent days, Melson has indicated he does not believe he did anything wrong because he carried out his bosses’ wishes and is eager to testify to describe the full picture, according to sources familiar with those conversations.

Issa, who is among those to previously call for Melson’s ouster, is hopeful the acting ATF director can answer crucial questions about what was known above him. “Director Melson has had a long and distinguished career at the Department of Justice. But in the eyes of the public he is, so far, the highest-ranking official who [knew] about gun walking,” Issa told THE DAILY BEAST over the weekend. “[But] I don’t believe he was the highest-ranking official at Justice who knew about or authorized this operation.

“He may still have an opportunity to set the record straight for his agency and get away from being the focus of demands for accountability. We certainly want to hear his full story and see all the evidence about what happened,” Issa said.

Melson would also have the opportunity to clarify for investigators what exactly he told members of Congress, including Issa, during an April 2010 classified briefing on efforts to combat Mexican gun trafficking. News stories and Democrats have alleged that Issa was specifically briefed on Operation Fast and Furious, an allegation Issa has disputed. Two people familiar with the briefing, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the details, told THE DAILY BEAST that during the briefing a year ago, held in a congressional skiff—a secure location for briefings—ATF officials described several ongoing cases for Issa, Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.), and other staff.

One of those mentioned was the Fast and Furious operation, though the briefers never specifically revealed the code name, the sources said. Instead, they said there was an investigation ongoing in Arizona in which more than 1,300 weapons had passed into the hands of suspected straw buyers and into the marketplace, according to the sources. The briefers explained that the goal of the investigation was to track the guns to the larger cartels so a bigger case could be made, and that three of the most popular weapons that had been trafficked included an AK-57 variant known as the 7.62, .50-caliber weapons, and an AR semiautomatic variant known as the 5.56. The briefers also mentioned a recovery of a weapon in Mexico and a specific amount of money used to buy the guns, according to the sources.

However, the briefers, including Melson, did not mention several of the most controversial topics uncovered recently by congressional investigators, including the name Fast and Furious, or the fact that ATF agents and even gun dealers had reservations about the tactics, the sources said.

A spokesman for Issa told THE DAILY BEAST that the congressman was briefed on ATF efforts to combat gun trafficking but remembers it being more general. “They offered a short and broad overview of ATF efforts along with some information about the reliability of statistics on Mexican crime guns that originated in the United States. What they certainly did not say was the controversial truth about one particular operation: instead of tracking and making every effort to interdict guns, agents were being ordered to let criminals walk away with them,” spokesman Frederick Hill said.

Before the deal with Leahy, Grassley had faced limited cooperation from the Justice Department even as he raised questions about the tactics used by ATF, in part because Republicans are in the minority in the Senate. Issa’s committee has subpoena authority with Republicans in control but also has complained of foot-dragging on the production of documents and witnesses in the investigation.

June 27, 2011 4:52pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/27/atf-head-kenneth-melson-to-testify-before-congress-on-operation-fast-and-furious.print.html

tonyz

06-29-2011, 11:54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99Hg9EWFYQ&feature=player_embedded

tonyz

07-01-2011, 11:23

Weapons linked to controversial ATF strategy found in Valley crimes
Friday, July 1, 2011
ABC15 Investigators
By: Lori Jane Gliha

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/weapons-linked-to-controversial-atf-strategy-found-in-valley-crimes

Excerpts:

"Weapons linked to the strategy have been turning up at dangerous and deadly crime scenes near both sides of the border, including the murder scene of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed last December.

The ABC15 Investigators uncovered documents showing guns connected to at least two Glendale criminal cases and at least two Phoenix criminal cases also appear in the ATF’s Suspect Gun Database, a sort-of watch list for suspicious gun sales.

All four cases involve drug-related offenses. In one Glendale police report dated July 2010, police investigators working with DEA agents served search warrants at homes near 75th and Glendale avenues in Glendale, and 43rd and Glendale avenues in Phoenix as part of a “large scale marijuana trafficking” investigation.

Police investigators reported they “obtained information that members of the (trafficking) organization were using the homes…as stash houses used to store large amounts of marijuana temporarily.”

They reported finding hundreds of pounds of marijuana, more than $63,000 in U.S. currency and three guns inside the homes. One of the recovered weapons, a Romarm/Cugir WASR-10 rifle, appeared in an official ATF Suspect Gun Summary document in November 2009, proving agents knowingly allowed the suspicious gun sale, months before the weapon turned up at the crime scene.

In a separate Glendale Police Department case, dated November 2010, detectives discovered “bulk marijuana and weapons” inside a residence near 75th Avenue and Bethany Home Road in Glendale. Investigators recovered nearly 400 pounds of drugs and several firearms from the home.

One of the recovered weapons, another Romarm/Cugir WASR-10 rifle, appeared in an official ATF Suspect Gun Summary document in February 2010.

PHOENIX CASES

The two Phoenix cases, also connected to drugs, occurred in March and August 2010.

In the August case, Phoenix officers conducted a traffic stop near 83rd Avenue and McDowell Road in Phoenix. They discovered marijuana and an AK-47 in the driver’s trunk as well as other weapons.

One of the suspects explained he purchased the Romarm/Cugir Draco weapon for $600 on the street, but he wouldn’t reveal from whom he purchased the gun. ATF documents show the weapon had been entered into the ATF Suspect Gun Database in January 2010.

Officers recovered an FN Herstal Five-Seven weapon in the March case. During that ongoing drug investigation, near 43rd Avenue and Camelback Road in Phoenix, officers had been conducting surveillance after receiving information that a suspect was selling methamphetamine and marijuana.

CONGRESSIONAL LEADER RESPONDS

“With people like you down there in Arizona investigating this,” said Sen. Chuck Grassley, (R-Iowa), “and with Congressman Issa and this Senator on the case, they know we’re not going to give up.”

Grassley has been demanding information from ATF leaders, trying to determine who had knowledge of the controversial strategy and when they knew."

Team Sergeant

07-01-2011, 11:40

Ret10Echo

07-01-2011, 12:49

I heard that the Department of Justice now wants to allow the straw purchase of anti-aircraft missiles & tactical nuclear weapons (5-10 Kt) to militant Sunni islamist groups in the middle east just to see where they will end up......:munchin

They should get with the Phrench...who are lobbing them out of aircraft to the "civilians" on the ground...

A technique I suppose.

Badger52

07-05-2011, 07:00

House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform video of hearings on Operation FAST AND FURIOUS are available. 13 June 2011 is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1wKawb6JI) and 15 June 2011 is there (http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1335%3A6-15-11-qoperation-fast-and-furious-reckless-decisions-tragic-outcomesq&catid=12&Itemid=20).To dot i's & cross t's, the online Committee .pdf of the agent testimony here. (http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Reports/ATF_Report.pdf)

tonyz

07-06-2011, 07:53

This could get interesting.

Featured Videos
Fox News
'Fast and Furious' Infuriates Mexico
Jul 5, 2011

Mexican lawmakers want to extradite U.S. officials responsible for botched anti-gun trafficking operation

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1039041448001/fast-and-furious-infuriates-mexico/?playlist_id=87485

Paragrouper

07-06-2011, 10:18

The plot thickens...Link (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/06/justice-department-obstructing-fast-and-furious-gun-probe-atf-director-says/)

Justice Department Obstructing 'Fast and Furious' Gun Probe, ATF Director Says
By William Lajeunesse

Published July 06, 2011

FoxNews.com

The Justice Department is obstructing the congressional investigation of a U.S. law enforcement operation intended to crack down on major weapons traffickers on the Southwest border, according to the embattled leader of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Ken Melson, the acting director of the ATF, lobbed the accusation when he sneaked in for an interview with congressional investigators on July 4, two days ahead of his scheduled interview with the inspector general about the operation known as "Fast and Furious," Fox News has learned.
"If his account is accurate, then ATF leadership appears to have been effectively muzzled while the DOJ sent over false denials and buried its head in the sand," Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said in a letter Tuesday to Attorney General Eric Holder. "That approach distorted the truth and obstructed our investigation."

The Justice Department is reportedly looking to oust Melson, who has been acting ATF director since April 2009, as the agency deals with its biggest scandal in nearly two decades. Andrew Traver, who was tapped in November by President Obama to become the permanent ATF director, could be named as acting director until the Senate acts on his nomination, sources have said.

In a separate development, congressional sources have learned that not only was U.S. taxpayer money being used to buy guns that were later sent to Mexico, but the main target of the investigation was actually a FBI informant and former drug dealer who had been deported years ago.

"Fast and Furious" has been at the center of an investigation by Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa. The operation began in the fall of 2009 as an effort to trace and stop the trafficking of illegal guns on the Southwest border, but instead allowed thousands of guns to get into the hands of Mexican cartel members.

The two say they learned about the program after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed in December 2010. At the crime scene were two guns linked to the "Fast and Furious" operation.

At an Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing last month, three federal firearms investigators testified that they wanted to "intervene and interdict" loads of guns, but were repeatedly ordered to step aside to allow suspected smugglers to carry the weapons over the border.

Issa and Grassley have urged Holder to cooperate and turn over subpoenaed records that would reveal the scope of the government coverup.

The alleged coverup involves three law enforcement agencies: the ATF, FBI and the DEA, or Drug Enforcement Administration.

According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."

The confidential informant is a former high-level drug dealer who had been deported by the DEA. The FBI, however, recruited him as a counter-terrorism informant, providing information on potential dirty bombs or Al Qaeda suspects moving through the border region.

The FBI informant was picked up on a DEA wiretap, and forwarded to the ATF.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/06/justice-department-obstructing-fast-and-furious-gun-probe-atf-director-says/#ixzz1RLHpIpe4

Badger52

07-06-2011, 12:50

Last to sing finds no chairs left.

rdret1

07-06-2011, 12:55

Paslode

07-06-2011, 14:27

Oh, the tangled web we weave. After all of the catastrophes and lesser messes we have gotten into due to the lack of cooperation and intelligence sharing between the FBI, CIA, ATF, DEA, NSA and any other alphabet soup governmental agency; you would think that ONE DAY, they would learn to play nice and talk to each other a bit. They might actually find and fix something for a change.

If you haven't yet looked at the past couple days on the Sipsey Street Irregulars (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/) website you should, there are several intersting articles.......including this translation from a Mexican bewspaper:

The U.S. sells us arms, admits El Mamito

The drug dealer Jesus Rejon affirms that the cartel buys drugs in Guatemala, and then they cross the river

Raul Flores Martinez

Mexico City, July 6, 2011 The arms used by the criminal group The Zetas were bought in the United States including those sold by authorities of the United States government, according to the account of Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, El Mamito.

Last Sunday, elements of the Federal Police arrested El Z-7, one of the principal leaders and founders of The Zetas who in his initial statement affirmed that there are entities of the government of the United States that are furnishing arms to the Mexican cartels.

In an interview released by the Federal Police with El Mamito, indicated that the arms that are purchased cross over the International Bridge and thus cross the river.

“The arms bought in the United States – there was a time that the buyers, because they were not with us, were buyers on the other side – said that even the American government itself sold them.”

Furthermore, the arms trafficking from the American Union to Mexico took place in periods of 20 days, a month or month and a half, according to the review and operation that the federal authorities carried out. The transport of armaments were facilitated for the Gulf Cartel by having an agreement with the authorities, said Rejon Aguilar in his initial statements.

“We cannot overlook the reason for the success of this operation; we can deduce that it is impossible to be buying arms much less take them in the trunk of a car and be able to freely pass, well there had to have been a treaty or something, I don’t know, one can suppose that there had to have been a treaty with the government, I don’t know.”

Regarding drug trafficking, the central base is Guatemala. Everything is purchased in that Central American country.

“Drugs are controlled by a group of accountants, they direct everything in private, so it is a closed circle, and they know how it is being done.”

Meanwhile, the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) applauded the capture of Rejon Aguilar for whom there is an warrant in the United States for the distribution of cocaine and marijuana.

“This significant arrest is testimony to the commitment of President Filipe Calderon to defeat the dangerous and violent drug cartels that operate in Mexico,” indicated the Agency.

http://www.excelsior.com.mx/index.php?m=nota&id_nota=750721

Badger52

07-07-2011, 07:51

If you haven't yet looked at the past couple days on the Sipsey Street Irregulars (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/) website you should,...Indeed. A friend sends this AM news of another ATF operation (CASTAWAY) run out of Tampa (by the previous Phoenix Div SAC) to get US firearms into Honduras. (An attempt to close the loop on the previous dispute to the source of ordnance in Mexico? Time & testimony may tell.)

Worth checking out.

Paslode

07-07-2011, 14:06

An excerpt from todays New York Post:

Law-abiding gun owners and dealers think they already know. With the Obama administration wedded to the fiction that 90 percent of the guns Mexican cartels use originate here -- they don't -- many suspect that "Fast and Furious" was a backdoor attempt to smear domestic gun aficionados as part of its stealth efforts on gun control by executive fiat.

"I just want you to know that we're working on it," Obama was quoted as saying to gun-control advocate Sarah Brady in March. "We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar."

Unfortunately for the administration, this one's out in the open no

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/fast_furious_gets_hotter_for_holder_wDCoBUrOxYF8r1 GobKS89M#ixzz1RS4iWVqe

Surf n Turf

07-07-2011, 17:31

Fast & Furious, part deux ?
SnT

Source claims ATF's Tampa SAC walked guns to Honduras
Part of 'Operation Castaway'?

Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Tampa Field Division, ran a gun-running investigation that was walking guns to Honduras using the techniques and tactics identical to Fast and Furious, it was reported to these correspondents this evening via private correspondence from a proven credible source.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/breaking-news-source-claims-atf-s-tampa-sac-walked-guns-to-honduras#ixzz1RStI5XeZ

Paslode

07-09-2011, 07:20

Mark Steyn's comments on Operation Fast & Furious:

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/federal-307529-news-gun.html

consider the dark suspicion of many American gun owners – that the real reason the feds embarked on this murderous scheme was to plant the evidence that the increasing lawlessness on the southern border is the fault of the gun industry and the Second Amendment, and thereby advance its ideological agenda of ever greater gun control.

Investors Business Daily on Eric Holder:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/577800/201107081902/The-Stimulation-Of-Murder.htm

Holder told the audience: "Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner. DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion."

tonyz

07-09-2011, 09:34

'Fast & Furious' gets hotter for Holder...but not hot enough YET for that pusillanimous POS, Holder.

Paslode

07-12-2011, 11:43

We have recently learned that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has afforded potential witnesses for the Committee's investigation into Operation Fast and Furious access to a shared drive on its computer system replete with pertinent investigative documents, including ATF e-mails. Although our staff has been advised the Department has since terminated access to this document cache, we write to seek additional information relating to this egregious decision. We also ask that you promptly self-report this matter to the Office of Inspector General (OIG).

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/2011-07-11_DEI__Grassley_to_Holder-DOJ_-_ATF_witness_shared_drive_access_due_7-18.pdf

Badger52

07-12-2011, 13:07

I suspect their public rationale ("hey, you asked us to collect information & respond to a Congressional inquiry!") might be publicly defensible, although they were restrained from this very thing on the record. But I also wonder if the potential witness list was small enough that - by word of this reaching the committee & generating an admonishment - a further source inside is now compromised.

Paslode

07-13-2011, 17:07

Interesting email...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PF-7aYe5wHU/Th4WfT5EvpI/AAAAAAAAI1Y/bJ7jH1ai1JY/s1600/chaitemail.png

incarcerated

07-13-2011, 21:39

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=578184&p=1

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/171255-gop-votes-to-block-funding-for-new-gun-sale-requirements

tonyz

07-14-2011, 09:16

And while most of our main stream media and pseudo-intellectuals focus on non-substantive gaffes by the likes of Bachmann and Palin (YAWN) - BHO and ag Holder were arguably complicit in a foolish and ill-conceived program that resulted in MURDER, damage to foreign relations and the creation of unreasonable risk to US citizens and Mexican nationals, alike.

Excerpt from link posted by incarcerated below:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...?id=578184&p=1

"The president has directed us to take action to fight these cartels," Ogden begins, "and Attorney General Holder and I are taking several new and aggressive steps as part of the administration's comprehensive plan."

At the president's direction, Ogden said, the administration's plan included DOJ's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives "increasing its efforts by adding 37 new employees in three new offices, using $10 million in Recovery Act funds and redeploying 100 personnel to the Southwest border in the next 45 days to fortify its Project Gunrunner," of which Operation Fast and Furious would be a part.

As we have noted, Attorney General Eric Holder himself gave a speech to Mexican authorities in Cuernavaca, Mexico, on April 2, 2009, taking credit for Gunrunner as well as Fast and Furious for himself and the Obama administration.

Holder told the audience: "Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner."

sinjefe

07-14-2011, 09:52

DOJs latest "edict" on border gun sales

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/12/justice-departments-new-rule-on-border-gun-sales-gets-mixed-reviews/

Paragrouper

07-14-2011, 13:45

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=578184&p=1

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/171255-gop-votes-to-block-funding-for-new-gun-sale-requirements

Gotta Love C-SPAN!

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc)

tonyz

07-14-2011, 15:55

An interesting take on this ongoing fiasco from attorney David Hardy's blog - there are links to the federal statute and Department of State's guidelines on Hardy's blog page:

Did Fast & Furious violate the Arms Export Control Act?
Posted by David Hardy · 12 July 2011 07:51 PM

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2011/07/did_fast_furiou.php

First, the Arms Export Control Act, 22 USC §2778.. It authorizes the President to define defense articles and regulate their export. In so doing, he must consider the possibility that export could "support international terrorism, increase the possibility of outbreak or escalation of conflict..."

Those defense articles may not be exported without a permit, issued by the Secretary of State (Department of State guidelines), "except that no license shall be required for exports or imports made by or for an agency of the United States Government

(A) for official use by a department or agency of the United States Government, or
(B) for carrying out any foreign assistance or sales program authorized by law and subject to the control of the President by other means."

The firearms involved here were not being exported for official use by an agency, nor as part of foreign aid. This a lot narrower than the GCA exception for acts by a government agency, and for good reason: the purpose of this statute is to control executive agency actions. No gun running to foreign governments or persons without a paper trail (and in cases of large transactions, a prior request for Congressional approval).

Any person who willfully violates these provisions "shall upon conviction be fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

There have been some reports of agents having directly transferred firearms to drug cartel buyers, in order to boost their "street creds." That'd clearly be a violation. In other situations, the person who actually exported the firearms would be in clear violation. But what of those government supervisors who allowed the arms to flow -- especially the cases where a protesting FFL was told to sell the guns anyway?

18 U.S. Code §2 provides:

"§ 2. Principals

(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.

(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal."

I enjoyed this comment on the blog page - sort of says it all.

Posted by: James N. Gibson at July 12, 2011 10:08 PM

Can we cut these guys some slack? After all, all they did was help the wrong side in the war between the Mexican government and the drug cartels, infuriate the government of a neighbor nation, furnish the means to get multiple people killed, give material aid to terrorist organizations, and arm Arizona criminals with weapons that will probably still be in circulation 100 years from now, and then try to cover the whole thing up. Who would care about a little thing like that?

rdret1

07-14-2011, 17:09

This administration has amply demonstrated their contempt for existing law and the constitution. Nothing they do surprises me. 2012 baby! 2012.

Paslode

07-14-2011, 18:33

Democrats to Introduce Gun Control Legislation Tomorrow
By Katie Pavlich
7/14/2011

Democrat Representatives Maloney, Cummings and McCarthy, all members of the Minority on the House Oversight Committee chaired by Republican Congressman Issa, plan to hold a press conference tomorrow to announce new gun control anti-gun trafficking legislation in light of Operation Fast and Furious. The "Stop Gun Trafficking and Strengthen Law Enforcement Act," is designed to "keep high powered firearms out of the hands of dangerous criminals, including Mexican drug cartels."

U.S. Representatives Carolyn B. Maloney (D-NY), Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD), ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) will join other members and a leading law enforcement organization for an event Friday, July 15th, 11:00 a.m. at the House Triangle to introduce the “Stop Gun Trafficking and Strengthen Law Enforcement Act,” which establishes a dedicated firearms trafficking statute to empower law enforcement to keep high-powered firearms out of the hands of dangerous criminals, including Mexican drug cartels.

So let me get this straight, democrats want to punish law abiding Americans and impede on Second Amendment rights with new legislation "to prevent gun trafficking to Mexico," however, aren't willing to focus on the ATF and DOJ's role in deliberately putting high powered firearms into the hands of criminals including Mexican drug cartels? It doesn't matter how many gun control laws we have on the books if the federal government is willing to break them to push a political agenda, however, this is not surprising.

FLASHBACK:

“Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals, this was the plan. It was so mandated.” –Special Agent John Dodson ATF Phoenix Field Division.

Damning new evidence from Capitol Hill shows that ATF Directors and Justice Department Officials knew about and encouraged the purposeful trafficking of thousands of weapons across the southern border, despite strong objections from ATF agents. Thousands of innocent lives were taken as the result, including those of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jamie Zapata.

The announcement of new legislation comes just a day after Townhall obtained emails showing Operation Fast and Furious was designed to promote gun control and four days after the DOJ Deputy Attorney General James Cole, who is under investigation for his involvement in the scandal, released new reporting requirements for multiple sales of certain semi-automatic rifles.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/07/14/democrats_to_introduce_gun_control_legislation_tom orrow

rdret1

07-14-2011, 18:53

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/07/14/democrats_to_introduce_gun_control_legislation_tom orrow

What a bunch of idiots. The BATFE and DOJ screw the pooch and these mooks think they need to attack the average gun owner.:rolleyes:

GratefulCitizen

07-14-2011, 20:41

If the president wants to hurt the gun industry, he needs to lose the next election.
He is the best gun salesman the nation has ever known.

tonyz

07-19-2011, 10:58

Somehow I don't see Scott Pelley pushing this story line on the CBS evening news...

Excerpts / link below:

Part I of an in-depth investigative series

Obama’s Watergate

Canada Free Press online

Doug Hagmann Monday, July 11, 2011

Just after 10:00 a.m. on March 23rd, 1973, John Dean, White House counsel to former President Richard M. Nixon advised Nixon of “a cancer within-close to the presidency, that’s growing. It’s growing daily.” Within the same breath, he advised Nixon that “people are going to start perjuring themselves very quickly that have not had to perjure themselves to protect other people and the like.” That cancer became known as “Watergate,” and eventually led to Nixon’s resignation.

Nearly forty years later, another “scandal,” exponentially larger than Watergate, has the potential to bring down the occupant of the oval office along with other high ranking officials. While no one was murdered as a result of Watergate, two law enforcement officers are dead because of the current “scandal” that is leading closer and closer to the highest levels of the Obama administration, including the Department of Justice and the U.S. State Department.

Obama’s “war on guns”
After taking office, Barack Hussein Obama began a coordinated effort with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to control the purchases and ownership of guns in the United States. To justify the implementation of tougher gun control laws and in a direct assault on the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, this administration cited a statement made to Congress by William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations for the BATFE on February 7, 2008. According to that report, 90 percent of the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels were purchased from or originated from the U.S.

That stunning revelation empowered the Obama administration to solicit public support for banning so-called assault weapons in the U.S., and calling for tougher gun control laws. The problem, however, is that the 2008 statement is disingenuous at best.

First and perhaps most transparent, it has been noted that only 1 in 5 guns that have been recovered in Mexico actually underwent any form of tracing, leaving 80% untraced. Accordingly, the 90 percent figure is already factually inaccurate.

Secondly and perhaps the most scandalous of all is that all figures cited by this administration pertaining to weapons tracing include weapons sold to the Mexican military via U.S. arms-trading policies under programs such as Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) initiatives. The fact is that the bulk of the arms used by the Mexican drug cartels did not - and do not originate from gun shop sales in the U.S., but from U.S. government sponsored programs that sell weapons and ammunition to the Mexican military as well as other third-world nations.

Many of the weapons used in Mexico and counted in border violence statistics actually arrived in that area from Central American countries involved in U.S. government sanctioned programs administered by the Pentagon and with the knowledge and imprimatur of the U.S. State Department.

Interestingly, confirmation of the government’s programs and knowledge by government officials, particularly Hillary Clinton, was made public by the recent release of State Department cables published by Wikileaks. The cables prove that the U.S. State Department and Hillary Clinton knew the origins of the bulk of the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels, although kept this information secret for the greater agenda of U.S. gun control.

Meanwhile, it appears that the Obama administration via Eric Holder, used various weapons tracking programs already implemented to inflate the statistics involving guns originating in the U.S. to advance even tougher gun control measures.

Research and investigation indicates that a series of programs implemented under the umbrella of a government sanctioned program known as “Project Gunrunner” were purposely exploited with the knowledge and consent of government officials at the highest of levels.

Much bigger than being reported
Unfortunately, the arguably illegal and certainly ill advised methodology implemented by the BATFE is not limited to the Project Gunrunner offshoot of “Operation Fast & Furious.” Other similar operations, each with the apparent knowledge and approval of the U.S. Justice Department, began to spring up elsewhere. There was also Operation Castaway in Tampa, which mirrored the methods of lack of interdiction as Operation Fast & Furious.

According to several agents who are now ready to offer testimony, each operation where weapons were allowed to “walk” into Mexico from the U.S. was approved at the highest levels of the United States Department of Justice and the U.S. Department of State. Some believe that operations of this magnitude could not have been possible without the knowledge and approval of Obama himself.

Almost 40 years after the biggest scandal to rock the nation, it is again time to ask the question to Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama under oath and in front of congress: What did you know and when did you know it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/38374

Team Sergeant

07-19-2011, 16:09

There must be a "secret" agreement that the FBI doesn't arrest agents of the ATF or Dept of Justice for murder or gross negligence.

Personally I think arrests should be made in this case, but no one is going to make them.

Signal to the public, the government can and will break the law up to and including murder and there ain't nothing you can do about it.

That just doesn't sit well with me.

rdret1

07-19-2011, 16:35

tonyz

07-19-2011, 16:52

Agree 100%. Here is another take on GW and Obama's attempt at another "Executive order".

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7891

Agreed.

From the buckeye report cited above..."A president who attempts to pass laws on his own is dangerous to the nation."

And I might add, a president and ag who arguably ignore laws and obstruct justice are also dangerous to the nation.

However, the combination of passing some laws (by executive fiat) and ignoring others - to advance their own personal political agenda against otherwise lawful gun owners (and to the obvious detriment of the lives and safety of our citizens) is unconscionable.

tonyz

07-21-2011, 07:03

Gun-smuggling cartel figures possibly were paid FBI informants
Probe reveals that the U.S. agency running the 'Fast and Furious' anti-gun-trafficking operation didn't know about the alleged FBI informants. Congressional investigators are looking into the matter.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cartel-guns-20110717,0,6972222.story

Los Angles Times - online
By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau

July 17, 2011
Reporting from Washington— Congressional investigators probing the controversial "Fast and Furious" anti-gun-trafficking operation on the border with Mexico believe at least six Mexican drug cartel figures involved in gun smuggling also were paid FBI informants, officials said Saturday.

The investigators have asked the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration for details about the alleged informants, as well as why agents at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the Fast and Furious operation, were not told about them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR THE RECORD:
Drug cartel slaying: An article in the July 17 Section A about questions surrounding the shooting death of U.S. immigration agent Jaime Zapata in Mexico said that Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), who is investigating the case, was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Grassley is the ranking Republican on the committee; Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) is the chairman. —

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The development raises further doubts about the now-shuttered program, which was created in November 2009 in an effort to track guns across the border and unravel the cartels' gun smuggling networks. The gun tracing largely failed, however, and hundreds of weapons purchased in U.S. shops later were found at crime scenes in Mexico.

The scandal has angered Mexican officials and some members of Congress. Investigators say nearly 2,500 guns were allowed to flow illegally into Mexico under the ATF program, fueling the drug violence ravaging that country and leading to the shooting death of a U.S. border agent.

In a letter to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, the investigators asked why U.S. taxpayers' money apparently was paid to Mexican cartel members who have terrorized the border region for years in their efforts to smuggle drugs into this country, and to ship U.S. firearms into Mexico.

"We have learned of the possible involvement of paid FBI informants in Operation Fast and Furious," wrote Rep. Darrel Issa (R-Vista), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Sen. Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. The two have been the leading congressional critics of the program.

"At least one individual who is allegedly an FBI informant might have been in communication with, and was perhaps even conspiring with, at least one suspect whom ATF was monitoring," they wrote.

The FBI and DEA did not tell the ATF about the alleged informants. The ATF and congressional investigators learned later that those agencies apparently were paying cartel members whom the ATF wanted to arrest.

"Operation Fast and Furious was conceived to get some of the bigger fish down there," said one official close to the congressional investigation, who asked not to be identified because the probe is ongoing. "Then it turned out that some of the ones they were zeroing in on actually, mostly likely were paid informants."

The official said at least half a dozen cartel figures were being paid by one U.S. law enforcement agency while they were being targeted by another.

"We are learning more about them, and there are six so far that we know about. It's multiples, for sure," the official said.

The official declined to identify the six, but said the individual cited in the letter to the FBI operated along the Texas border with Mexico.

"This guy could die if it got out who he is," the official said. "He'd be killed."

The FBI and DEA referred queries Saturday to the Department of Justice. Officials there said they cannot talk about paid informants, but are attempting to answer the questions from Issa and Grassley.

They noted that they already have provided thousands of pages of documents to Congress, and have answered questions in sworn depositions and open hearings.

"We have been cooperating, and we will continue to cooperate," said an Obama administration official. "We want to learn as much as we can about Fast and Furious, just as they do."

The ATF ran the Fast and Furious operation out of its field office in Phoenix until early this year. The idea was to monitor illegal purchases in federally licensed U.S. gun shops, but allow the illicit buyers to walk away with the weapons, giving ATF agents the opportunity to learn how the guns are smuggled across the border.

But many of their gun tracing efforts failed, and hundreds of firearms purchased under the program were used to commit crimes in Mexico.

In addition, two AK-47s purchased during the operation were found at the scene last December where U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry was shot to death near Tucson, allegedly by a Sinaloa cartel member.

A second U.S. immigration agent, Jaime Zapata, was slain in a cartel ambush in February in Mexico, and investigators now are trying to determine whether Fast and Furious weapons were used to kill him as well.

In the letter to Mueller, the senators asked if Zapata was armed when he was killed and "if not, why not?" They also asked if his vehicle was bulletproof, and if so, "how was he killed inside of the vehicle?"

They also asked how many cartel members were paid, if any of the informants had been deported from the United States, and if FBI personnel in Arizona knew of the informants.

The Republican leaders asked to see all "emails, documents, memoranda, briefing papers, and handwritten notes" from and to FBI and DEA field supervisors and agents in Phoenix, Tucson, Nogales and Yuma in Arizona, and in El Paso, Texas.

They are seeking the same material from the FBI case agent investigating Terry's death.

Zapata's family also is seeking answers. Relatives of the slain immigration agent sent a letter June 14 to the U.S. attorney's office in South Texas, the top FBI official in San Antonio, and several U.S. immigration officials, "requesting information about the specific circumstances of Jaime Zapata's death."

richard.serrano@latimes.com

tonyz

07-26-2011, 03:32

JOINT STAFF REPORT
Prepared for
Rep. Darrell E. Issa, Chairman
United States House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
&
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Ranking Member
United States Senate
Committee on the Judiciary
112th Congress
July 26, 2011

http://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/07/26/National-Politics/Graphics/ATF%20Fast%20and%20Furious%20-%20Fueling%20Cartel%20Violence.pdf

Excerpt:

The previous joint staff report entitled The Department of Justice’s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF Agents chronicled Operation Fast and Furious, a reckless program conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), and the courageous ATF agents who came forward to expose it. Operation Fast and Furious made unprecedented use of a dangerous investigative technique known as “gunwalking.”

Rather than intervene and seize the illegally purchased firearms, ATF’s Phoenix Field Division allowed known straw purchasers to walk away with the guns, over and over again. As a result, the weapons were transferred to criminals and Mexican Drug Cartels.

This report explores the effect of Operation Fast and Furious on Mexico. Its lethal drug cartels obtained AK-47 variants, Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifles, .38 caliber revolvers, and FN Five-seveNs from Arizona gun dealers who were cooperating with the ATF by continuing to sell to straw purchasers identified in Operation Fast and Furious.

tonyz

07-26-2011, 10:43

This hearing took place this morning - the witness statements are in links below - some of the statements are quite powerful.

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1385%253A7-26-11-qoperation-fast-and-furious-the-other-side-of-the-borderq&catid=12&Itemid=1

Washington DC-- On Tuesday, July 26th, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee will convene a hearing as part of the ongoing investigation into the Department of Justice's Operation Fast and Furious, a tragically flawed effort that is connected to deaths on both sides of the U.S./Mexico border.

The Committee’s task today is serious, and the Administration’s effort to impede this investigation slows our work to make public the truth of an acknowledged—and failed—operation. The Acting Director of the ATF, in a transcribed interview with investigators, has said that the Justice Department is trying to push all of this away from its political appointees. That is not the response this Committee, Congress and the public, should expect from the ‘most transparent Administration in history.’

In this hearing, lawmakers will hear firsthand from field agents who have worked in Mexico for years and who were systematically kept in the dark by officials in Phoenix and at headquarters about the real nature and scope of “Operation Fast and Furious.” The Committee will also hear testimony from ATF supervisors who chose to allow weapons to flow from illegal sales in the United States directly into the hands of Mexican drug cartels—without interception or interdiction.

To date, President Obama has been keen to talk about who didn’t know about the program and who didn’t authorize it. These answers will not suffice. The American people have a right to know—once and for all—who did authorize it and who knew about it.

Working with our counterpart in this investigation, Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the Committee will remain focused on these basic questions and pursue the trail of truth to the highest levels of government. We owe the men and women in law enforcement nothing less because it is their lives on the line.

Operation Fast and Furious: The Other Side of the Border
Full Committee, Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, July 26th in 2154 Rayburn House Office Building.

Witness statments at links below

Witnesses
Mr. Carlos Canino
ATF Acting Attaché to Mexico

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/7-26-11_Carlos_Canino_FF_Testimony.pdf

Mr. Darren Gil
Former ATF Attaché to Mexico

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/7-26-11_Darren_Gil_FF_Testimony.pdf

Mr. Jose Wall
ATF Senior Special Agent
Tijuana, Mexico

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/7-26-11_Jose_Wall_FF_Testimony.pdf

Mr. Lorren Leadmon
ATF Intelligence Operations Specialist

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/7-26-11_Leadmon_FF_Testimony.pdf

Mr. William Newell
Former ATF Special Agent in Charge
Phoenix Field Division

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Testimony/7-26-11_Newell_FF_Testimony.pdf

Mr. William McMahon
ATF Deputy Assistant Director for Field Operations
(West, including Phoenix and Mexico)

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/7-26-11_McMahon_FF_Testimony.pdf

incarcerated

07-26-2011, 23:41

....To date, President Obama has been keen to talk about who didn’t know about the program and who didn’t authorize it....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20083772-10391695.html

ATF Manager says he shared Fast and Furious Info with White House

By Sharyl Attkisson
July 26, 2011 5:02 PM
At a lengthy hearing on ATF's controversial gunwalking operation today, a key ATF manager told Congress he discussed the case with a White House National Security staffer as early as September 2010. The communications were between ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office, Bill Newell, and White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O'Reilly. Newell said the two are longtime friends....

tonyz

07-27-2011, 05:32

The communications were between ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office, Bill Newell, and White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O'Reilly.

So, this man, William Newell, former Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive’s Phoenix Field Division emailed this man, Kevin O'Reilly, US Foreign Service, Director of North American Affairs, US National Security Council, about Fast and Furious and guns being moved to Mexico -- because Mr. O'Reilly was requesting information on guns illegally being moved to Mexico..."you didn't get this from me..."

Good on the CBS reporter for pursuing this story...that prime table at the WHCA (WH Correspondent's) dinner just got moved to the back of the bus, er room.

From the WH web page...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/nsc/

National Security Council
The National Security Council (NSC) is the President's principal forum for considering national security and foreign policy matters with his senior national security advisors and cabinet officials. Since its inception under President Truman, the Council's function has been to advise and assist the President on national security and foreign policies. The Council also serves as the President's principal arm for coordinating these policies among various government agencies.

The NSC is chaired by the President. Its regular attendees (both statutory and non-statutory) are the Vice President, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Defense, and the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the statutory military advisor to the Council, and the Director of National Intelligence is the intelligence advisor. The Chief of Staff to the President, Counsel to the President, and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy are invited to attend any NSC meeting. The Attorney General and the Director of the Office of Management and Budget are invited to attend meetings pertaining to their responsibilities. The heads of other executive departments and agencies, as well as other senior officials, are invited to attend meetings of the NSC when appropriate.

The National Security Council was established by the National Security Act of 1947 (PL 235 - 61 Stat. 496; U.S.C. 402), amended by the National Security Act Amendments of 1949 (63 Stat. 579; 50 U.S.C. 401 et seq.). Later in 1949, as part of the Reorganization Plan, the Council was placed in the Executive Office of the President.
.

tonyz

07-27-2011, 07:25

It might be worth watching the short video below illustrating the contrasting testimony of two BATF agents yesterday - the entire video is worth a look, however, at approximately 4:07 SAC Newall states that he communicates 3 or 4 or more times a year with WH NSC member Kevin O'Reilly - or whenever Mr. O'Reilly "reaches out" to Newhall.

Will Scott Pelley ever ask the question - what did the WH know and when did they know it? Is the NSC, by definition, an extension of the WH? ...fat chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDent41xV0U&feature=player_embedded

At the very end of the video above - Newall exhibits his tendency throughout the process to channel Bill Clinton (depends on what the definition of "is" is) when he says that he did not talk about the "specifics" of the "specific" case. In other testimony Newall corrects members of congress that F & F is not "a case" or not "a program" but that it is an investigation. This guy Newall is a weasel of the first degree - on display for all to see. He is either incompetent or unduly evasive or both - none of which IMO serves the BATF, the mission, the agents or the country very well.

Here is another video - be prepared to be stunned by the Clintonesque weaselness - by the way, Mr. Newall is SES (senior executive service) at BATF - reportedly once considered to be a rising star (maybe still? until house cleaning at BATF) in management at BATF. In this video, Newall admits that guns where let loose to travel to Mexico but initially fails to recognize that such an act is considered by most to be "walking guns." FWIW, it is my general understanding that when BATF broke off surveillance of the "straw purchaser" (by definition a "straw" is breaking the law) in the US with reasonable suspicion that the firearms purchased by the "straw" will end up in Mexico and such firearms will be resold to criminals, that is generally considered to be "walking guns."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6vrRco01XA

Badger52

07-27-2011, 13:43

(re Newell) He is either incompetent or unduly evasive or both - none of which IMO serves the BATF, the mission, the agents or the country very well.Maybe he's not completely satisfied with his level of "protection" yet - chairs available when the music stops are getting very scarce, though.

tonyz

07-27-2011, 14:12

Maybe he's not completely satisfied with his level of "protection" yet - chairs available when the music stops are getting very scarce, though.

You're probably right - and IMO Newell (and those involved) do not deserve protection based on what I have read and observed.

Newell is, however, a relative peon in this investigation - can you imaging the questions that Bush would have endured by now had this happened on his watch. The double standard is well known but that does not make it any more palatable - this administration has enjoyed a "pass" from most of the main stream media that may finally be expiring. I think Obama is lucky that the debt ceiling crisis is taking the bulk of media attention right now. That cat (Obama) sure has nine lives.

tonyz

07-28-2011, 17:06

One of the video clips in post # 116 above unfortunately ends just as Newell is being asked whether he has talked with WH NSC member O'Reilly about F & F - I found the transcript and posted a small part below - it picks up below just after the video stops.

LABRADOR: How many times did you talk to him about this case?

NEWELL: The specifics of this case? I don't think I I mean I don't think I had one specific conversation with him about the specifics of this case.

LABRADOR: OK. Who ...

ISSA (?): Would the gentleman allow me to help him a little? Not that you need it, but could you take the word specific out and and answer the general did you talk to him about this case?

NEWELL: I might have talked to him about this case. Yes, Sir.

ISSA(?): Do you know when that was?

NEWELL: It was probably I as I recall I think it was during the summer it might have been the summer or early fall of 2010.

Newell is a lying, obfuscating POS on the taxpayer payroll – and the crying shame is that he is not really that unique of a species in many bureaucracies.

IMO, our government employees are supposed to be the good guys. That is, the agency employee is assumed to be honest and forthright at least while cloaked with the agency's imprimatur - something is terribly wrong.

These Newell types don't have the balls to admit a bad decision or the class to commit seppuku - so they self-perpetuate. It would truly be a shame if he (and the other relatively low level folks) were the only ones to take the fall for this fiasco.

Ret10Echo

07-28-2011, 18:23

IMO, our government employees are supposed to be the good guys. That is, the agency employee is assumed to be honest and forthright at least while cloaked with the agency's imprimatur - something is terribly wrong.

Actually the oath taken by Federal employees is as follows:

Oath

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

5 U.S.C. §3331

(From the U.S. Office of Personnel Management Website)

It is why I keep a copy of the Constitution on the wall of my office. I love it when people look at it and ask "Why?"

It is far too easy to lose track of what your purpose is. IMHO, most become so entrenched in the system that they begin to believe that they ARE the government....and that their existence is simply to perpetuate their own legacy.

As a society we have lost track of what "faith" "allegiance" and "obligation" are. With little accountability, the same attitudes have become part of the Civil Service mentality.

badshot

07-29-2011, 02:37

It is why I keep a copy of the Constitution on the wall of my office. I love it when people look at it and ask "Why?"

It is far too easy to lose track of what your purpose is. IMHO, most become so entrenched in the system that they begin to believe that they ARE the government....and that their existence is simply to perpetuate their own legacy.

As a society we have lost track of what "faith" "allegiance" and "obligation" are. With little accountability, the same attitudes have become part of the Civil Service mentality.

Nice to see when someone does their job for the right reasons.

This quality is too often few and far between in many professions.

Thank you sir

tonyz

07-30-2011, 14:58

Issa Introduces Legislation to Honor Fallen Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry

Facility Located in District of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords

http://republicans.oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1401:issa-introduces-legislation-to-honor-fallen-border-patrol-agent-brian-terry&catid=22:releasesstatements

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) – The Border Patrol station in Bisbee, Ariz., will be renamed to honor the memory of agent Brian Terry who died December 15, 2010 after being shot in the line of duty. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, introduced the bill in the House of Representatives July 27.

"Our nation's Border Patrol agents have a distinguished history of working to protect our borders. Agent Terry, who served our nation through his military service and his career with the Border Patrol, gave his life defending this country. Naming the Bisbee station in his honor recognizes his sacrifice, service and heroism," Issa said.

"In the past half-century, 70 U.S. Border Patrol agents – including Agent Terry – have been killed while protecting our nation," said Pia Carusone, chief of staff for Rep. Giffords (D-Ariz.), whose office worked with Issa on the legislation. "Congresswoman Giffords has led the fight for increased border security so Agent Terry and others will not have died in vain."

Terry's family issued a statement, saying, "From the very start, Brian loved his job as a Border Patrol agent and loved his fellow agents. The new Naco Station named in Brian's honor will serve as a lasting memory for all those who knew Brian."

In December 2010, Agent Terry was shot and killed while on patrol 14 miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border near Rio Rico, Ariz., during an armed confrontation with suspected criminals. Prior to joining the U.S. Border Patrol, Agent Terry served in the U.S. Marine Corps and served as a police officer in Michigan.

Agent Terry's murder is linked to Operation Fast and Furious, a reckless program where federal law enforcement agencies knowingly allowed the trafficking of illegally purchased weapons into Mexico, arming drug cartels. The Oversight and Government Reform Committee is conducting an ongoing investigation to determine which U.S. officials are responsible for creating and authorizing the deadly program.

The bill, H.R. 2668, the "Brian A. Terry Memorial Act," has 52 Democratic and Republican cosponsors including principal cosponsor Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), Ranking Member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

The station, located at 2136 S. Naco Highway, is located in the district of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and is only the second border patrol station to be named for a fallen agent. The Border Patrol's Murrieta, Calif., station is named in honor of Agents Theodore L. Newton, Jr. and George F. Azrak, two agents killed on duty in 1967, by an earlier act authored by Rep. Issa.

tonyz

08-02-2011, 18:14

The spending problems and negotiating taking place in DC have understandably dominated the recent headlines but - IMO, the death of a border patrol agent and the cover up occurring in DC are also indicative of problems with our current political leadership. While there have always been financial and accounting gimmicks in DC - it is particularly distasteful to watch an administration, to date, participate in a cover up that involves murder.

In light of recent hearings before the House Oversight Committee - where SA Newell helped put some names and faces to this fiasco - it is interesting to go back and look at what BATF published back in 2010. I went back over the document and below are a few snips and a link to the document itself.

The sleight of hand and contortions required by politicians (and agency heads) to explain and interpret this document, given some of the inconvenient facts that we now know, could get interesting if more members of the main stream press would dig a little and investigate. To date, most have showed more interest in Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.

IMO, it appears from the BATF document (and recent testimony, among other things) that Justice, BATF HQ and the WH seem to be deeply involved in F & F and other similar investigations - can State be far behind? Hillary is already on record, stating that she has no interest in serving a second term if Obama were to be reelected. Recall, in the past, the press has proven that while the chosen one gets a pass - Hillary does not.

Finally, let us not forget:
• December 14th 2010 - US Border Patrol Agent Brain Terry was MURDERED with an AK-47 smuggled into Mexico with the help of BATF.

• June 6, 2011 - CBS News confirms that guns - illegally purchased in the US with the help of the BATF, and then smuggled into Mexico - were used to shoot down a Mexican military helicopter.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Field Operations

UNCLASSIFIED//LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE

Project Gunrunner – A Cartel Focused Strategy

September 2010

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Cartel_Strategy.pdf

Page 2 - paragraph 5 of Executive Summary:

"Over the past few years the White House, the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security and even the U.S. Northern Command have developed various strategies and policies designed to leverage the full capabilities of the U.S. government in this effort. It is essential that our efforts support the strategies and policies of the President and the Attorney General and where possible, complement the strategies of other agencies.“

Page 5 - last paragraph

“Furthermore, over the past few months enforcement strategies (and other guidance) that address firearms trafficking to Mexican cartels have been developed and released by the White House and the Department of Justice. It is essential that ATF efforts support strategies promoted by the White House and Department of Justice. An examination of these and other strategies reveals similarities among the strategies, but also suggests that some revisions to ATF’s current strategy are necessary.”

Page 7 - paragraph 3

"This document recognizes that Project Gunrunner is both an ATF strategy and a component of a larger U.S. government counter narcotics strategy."

Page 10 - paragraph 2

“On January 7, 2010, the Department of Justice reemphasized its commitment to combating firearms trafficking to Mexican cartels and the use of the OCDETF program as a means of disrupting the cartels by releasing its own strategy. The strategy is premised on the notion that a significant share of the violence, drug trafficking and corruption along the Southwest border is perpetrated by a relatively small number of hierarchical criminal organizations. The DOJ strategy concludes that “the most effective mechanism to attack those organizations is the use of intelligence-based, prosecutor-led multi-agency task forces that attack all levels of, and all criminal activities of, the operations of the organizations.” A significant component of the DOJ strategy pertains to attacking the southbound flow of firearms. The strategy states that “given the national scope of this issue, merely seizing firearms through interdiction will not stop firearms trafficking to Mexico. We must identify, investigate, and eliminate the sources of illegally trafficked firearms and the networks that transport them.” The DOJ strategy calls for closer collaboration between ATF and the efforts of multi-agency drug task forces along the border, including OCDETF strike forces. All ATF field divisions with an OCDETF strike force must consider assigning a complement of special agents to the multi-agency strike force and/or establishing a collocated ATF-led OCDETF group within the strike force.”

Page 17 - paragraph 1

“ATF is in the process of revising Bureau policy pertaining to cases deemed significant/sensitive and those with national implication. Existing criteria for such cases include investigations with potential for diplomatic or international implications and investigations that are likely to cause contact with headquarters by the news media and/or a major political figure.”

Page 17 - paragraph 2

]“To ensure that this strategy is properly implemented and coordinated, ATF headquarters is establishing a mechanism to monitor and, where appropriate, coordinate investigations [/B]targeting Mexican cartels.”

Page 18 - paragraph 3

]“The controlled movement of firearms[/B], ammunition, explosives, explosives devices, and/or components or non-functional “props” of such items across the U.S.-Mexico border from the United States shall be coordinated with and approved in advance by Bureau headquarters and the MCO.”

Page 25 - paragraph 1

“Although it is expected that cases investigated as part of this strategy will be prosecuted by the appropriate local United States Attorney, DOJ has shown interest and support of the approach outlined in this document and has designated a Criminal Division attorney to serve as the Department’s liaison to ATF.”

BOfH

08-04-2011, 22:58

Two words: Fire Holder :lifter

https://www.nra.org/fireholder/Default.aspx

tonyz

08-05-2011, 09:13

Brian Terry: Semper Fidelis & Honor First

The Brian A. Terry Memorial Act - HR 2668 - will honor the service and sacrifice of fallen Border Patrol Agent Terry, who died protecting Americans and securing the border on December 15, 2010. Semper Fidelis & Honor First.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0jTJq_VfS8

BigJimCalhoun

08-05-2011, 19:31

I am confused. :confused:The government allowed guns to be purchased by cartels (maybe even hand-delivered) but earlier this week busted a group of food-terrorists at gunpoint for trafficing in raw milk.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033221_Rawesome_Foods_raw_milk.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/04/the-rawesome-raid-and-raw-milk-controversy/

For those that are interested in gunwalker, David Codrea (waronguns.com) has a daily radio show in Phoenix with daily archives covering the gunwalking story.

tonyz

08-09-2011, 09:47

The F&F story has some legs over at the Huffington Post - but fails to recognize that this is not just a political problem - but that's a start.

The Huffington Post contributor clearly has issues with this administration's handling of the F&F investigation.

Obama's Growing Gun Problem
Adam Winkler. Professor of Law, UCLA
Posted: 8/3/11 10:39 AM ET
Huffington Post

Full article here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/obamas-growing-gun-proble_b_917104.html

EXCERPTS:

Now that Republicans in Congress won important concessions from President Obama in the debt ceiling debate, the next partisan battle is likely to be over what promises to be the first major scandal of the Obama administration: the botched gun sting known as "Operation Fast and Furious." The administration should waste no time and come clean about what happened, who approved it, and how it can be avoided again.

Unfortunately, the early signs are that Obama is going to handle this controversy as poorly as he handled the debt ceiling debate.

When Sen. Grassley asked ATF if the guns that had been "used" in the killing of the border agent were part of the Fast and Furious operation, the bureau said no. The bureau failed to acknowledge, however, that two of the guns found at the scene were indeed part of the program on the shaky grounds that the evidence didn't conclusively show the Fast and Furious guns fired the fatal shots.
That kind of logic may work for a lawyer in a court of law, but won't work for politicians in the halls of Congress.

The administration claims there are current law enforcement efforts that require secrecy. Yet those reasons shouldn't prevent disclosure of information about the planning of the sting.

The administration's stalling is also likely to impede its efforts to adopt new gun control. Efforts to shore up the background checks required for many gun purchases and a proposal to restrict high-capacity ammunition clips won't go anywhere so long as Republicans in Congress can point to the ATF scandal. Nor will the administration gain confirmation of its new choice to head ATF so long as Melson is seen as a whistleblower.

Obama took office promising unparalleled transparency, yet top officials have been anything but with regard to Fast and Furious. Instead of addressing the questions head on, which might end the controversy quickly, the administration is guaranteeing that the investigation will drag on and on. Soon it will develop into a full-blown political scandal and Obama will wish that instead of ignoring this controversy, he'd dealt with it fast and furious.

Surf n Turf

08-16-2011, 09:25

219seminole

08-16-2011, 10:21

After they received the good news of promotions, they realized the Metro DC housing market is different than Phoenix.:eek:

One guy becomes a special assistant, another guy is transfered to tobacco, and 3rd guy gets to investigate unprofessional conduct...not too hard to read between the lines.:munchin

tonyz

08-16-2011, 10:59

"Hush money" ?
SnT

ATF promotes supervisors in controversial gun operation

The ATF has promoted three key supervisors of a controversial sting operation that allowed firearms to be illegally trafficked across the U.S. border into Mexico.
The three supervisors have been given new management positions at the agency's headquarters in Washington
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-atf-guns-20110816,0,3762843.story?track=rss

Carrying the water for a corrupt administration appears to have paid off - paid off - these pigs should review their taped testimony before the House Oversight Committee - have they no shame - these guys probably hit the peter principle about 4 positions ago - in DC they may rise to politician.

Badger52

08-17-2011, 08:01

One guy becomes a special assistant, another guy is transfered to tobacco, and 3rd guy gets to investigate unprofessional conduct...not too hard to read between the lines.:munchinOne step in the game of obfuscation. The longer they can dissemble, and the longer key people can be sitting an a position un-related to what they were doing before, the easier it is to testify:

"I'm sorry Senator, it's been awhile since I've even been in Arizona (or Florida or Texas or Int'l Falls, MN), let me just check my notes and refresh my memory so that we're giving you the most accurate picture of the events that may or may not have transpired during a time I might have been in a position to, perhaps, have had some level of awareness of things that might have been out of my jurisdiction." (covers mic, confers with attorney)

rdret1

08-17-2011, 19:26

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/17/guns-from-fast-and-furious-sting-linked-to-11-more-violent-crimes/?test=latestnews

This hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper. It makes you wonder just how many crimes have been committed on American soil with the weapons these bozos allowed to get across the border. Hopefully, we will see some real consequences for those who originated and supervised this fiasco.

tonyz

08-18-2011, 08:02

Anyone who watched Newell's testimony before the House Oversight Committee can guess what a big help Newell will be in his new position - and now he is in a prime blocking position "...we did not let guns walk."

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

Joseph Goebbels

ATF Responds to Inaccurate News Reports Regarding "Fast and Furious" Personnel

WASHINGTON, Aug. 17, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following statement is from Scot Thomasson, chief, Public Affairs Division, Office of Public and Governmental Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF):

"Recent media reports have inaccurately characterized personnel changes involving ATF agents associated with the Fast and Furious operation as promotions. Special Agents Voth, Newell and McMahon were laterally transferred from operational positions and moved into administrative roles, they were not promoted. They did not receive salary or grade increases nor did they assume positions with greater responsibility.

On May 13, 2011, Deputy Assistant Director McMahon, Field Operations was reassigned to a position within the Office of Professional Responsibility and Security Operations back filling a position that had been vacant for over a year. His transfer was one of six other transfers announced on that day involving various other positions.

On August 1, 2011, Special Agent Newell, who had been selected as Country Attache Mexico City, was reassigned to the Office of Management to assist with the OIG investigation and Congressional inquiry.

Furthermore, Special Agent Voth was reassigned to a headquarters position, a lateral move into a program area.

These transfers/reassignments have never been described as promotions in any of the documents announcing them."Contact: Public Affairs Division

(202) 648-8500

SOURCE Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

WASHINGTON, Aug. 17, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/atf-responds-to-inaccurate-news-reports-regarding-fast-and-furious-personnel-127966138.html

Badger52

08-18-2011, 08:55

On August 1, 2011, Special Agent Newell, who had been selected as Country Attache Mexico City, was reassigned to the Office of Management to assist with the OIG investigation and Congressional inquiry.
Actually that sounds like punishment; if someone told me I couldn't work with Soldiers any more and, instead, was now HMFIC of Powerpoint production or some such krap the grape smoke would be filling the halls.

'Course after they get him in the room with Agent K and the neuralyzer all will be well.

tonyz

08-18-2011, 09:38

Actually that sounds like punishment...

That's probably what ATF senior management will claim in all seriousness when the truth comes out..."hey, he's already been punished."

Damn bureaucracies.

tonyz

08-30-2011, 10:22

Gunwalker scandal: ATF director out of top job
CBS News - online
Sharyl Attkisson
August 30, 2011 11:13 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20099228-10391695.html?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson is being moved out of the top job at the Bureau, ATF Special Agents in Charge announced during a conference call with reporters today. He will transfer to the Justice Department and assume the position of senior advisor, Office of Legal Programs.

Melson's move is another in a number of high-level personnel shifts, as the Inspector General continues investigating the so-called gunwalker scandal at the Justice Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Follow up to add Politico story that names successor to Melson.

By JENNIFER EPSTEIN |
8/30/11 12:21 PM EDT

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62320.html#ixzz1WXAKWSFC
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62320.html

Melson’s replacement is B. Todd Jones, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Minnesota. Jones “is a demonstrated leader who brings a wealth of experience to this position,” Holder said. “I have great confidence that he will be a strong and steady influence guiding ATF in fulfilling its mission of combating violent crime by enforcing federal criminal laws and regulations in the firearms and explosives industries.”

BOfH

08-30-2011, 15:15

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20110830/effe6f64-021c-4c82-b31e-eda6412a2d38

Should really be one resignation, Melson was "reassigned".

tonyz

08-30-2011, 16:05

And the saga continues...a resignation, a few reassignments and a few lateral transfers later we still have no real answers.

Like rats from a sinking ship...they move before that important 2012 election.

Obama shakes up gun agency over botched Mexico sting

By Jeremy Pelofsky | Reuters – 35 mins ago..

http://news.yahoo.com/atf-chief-reassigned-botched-sting-161949768.html

Excerpts:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration announced on Tuesday a major shake-up of the U.S. agency that botched an attempt to track weapons smuggled to drug cartels in Mexico after guns were allowed to flow freely over the border.

Kenneth Melson who has been acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives since 2009, was reassigned after admitting mistakes in the sting operation meant to try to crack down on weapons reaching violent drug gangs from U.S. gun stores. In further fallout from the operation, the U.S. attorney for Arizona, Dennis Burke, has resigned effective immediately after acknowledging mistakes in the operation. The lead prosecutor on the case, Emory Hurley, has also been reassigned, an Obama administration official said.

U.S. ATTORNEY ADMITS MISTAKES

Burke was interviewed by congressional investigators on August 18 and said he was unaware of the tactical details of the sting and acknowledged that he and his team made mistakes, including not adequately supervising the case.

"It should not have been done the way it was done, and I want to take responsibility for that, and I'm not falling on a sword or trying to cover for anyone else," Burke told them, according to excerpts of his testimony released by Democrats on the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight.

Some 42,000 have died since 2006 as a result of the turf wars. The congressional investigation has turned up evidence that guns sold in the sting have been found at numerous crime scenes in the United States and Mexico.

U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry died in a December 2010 shootout on the American side of the border and two guns found there have been traced to the sting. It is not known if those guns were used to fire the fatal shots.

Some of the weapons recovered at crime scenes include powerful AK-47s and .50 caliber rifles.

Republicans in the U.S. Congress have been demanding the Obama administration explain who knew what and when about the ATF program, which was conceived of and run out of the agency's Phoenix division.

Obama will need to nominate someone to fill the U.S. Attorney's post. Burke previously served as chief of staff to Janet Napolitano when she was Arizona governor.

Melson was interviewed on July 4 by congressional investigators. At that time he acknowledged mistakes had been made and other law enforcement agencies had had critical information they did not share about their targets.

Paslode

08-30-2011, 16:09

tonyz

08-30-2011, 16:14

What tell you see who will replace Melson..........My money is on Anti-Gun Andy Traver.

No doubt we'll get "a demonstrated leader" under this administration.

Meh.

The Reaper

08-30-2011, 17:12

Melson=Fall Guy for Holder and the POTUS.

Stonewalling will continue.

TR

tonyz

08-31-2011, 07:29

Audio of interview with MPR in the linked story below - some generic background on the acting director BATF - he will remain United States Attorney for the District of Minnesota, while serving as acting director.

New acting director of ATF B. Todd Jones will tackle "lack of stability"
Steven John, Minnesota Public Radio,
Sasha Aslanian, Minnesota Public Radio
August 30, 2011

St. Paul, Minn. — Minnesota's U.S. Attorney B. Todd Jones will take over as acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Attorney General Eric Holder announced Tuesday.

Jones, who was serving his second stint as U.S. Attorney, will take over an agency that has been receiving heavy criticism over the past few months.

The former head of the ATF, Kenneth Melson, was criticized for a botched sting operation that resulted in guns getting into the hands of violent criminals in Mexico.
The southwest border operation aimed at busting gun traffickers failed to account for missing weapons. Three top leaders were replaced by the Justice Department today.

Jones says he plans to take the pulse inside the agency, refocus its energy on law enforcement priorities, and bring stability to the agency.

"They haven't had a confirmed director at ATF in almost six years," Jones said. "I will be the fifth acting director at ATF and that lack of stability takes its toll on an organization and I go into this knowing full well that there's a lot of work to do."

Jones will continue his duties as Minnesota's US attorney while serving as acting director of the ATF.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/08/30/b-todd-jones-interview/?refid=0

B. TODD JONES

Age: 54, born in Cincinnati

Education: Bachelor of arts, political science, Macalester College in St. Paul; law degree, University of Minnesota .

Military: Served active duty in the Marines until 1989; recalled in 1991 as a Marine Corps Reservist during first Persian Gulf war; commanded the 4th Marine Division's Military Police Company.

Professional: Senior associate attorney, Oppenheimer, Wolff & Donnelly in Minneapolis, 1989-92; managing partner, Greene Espel in Minneapolis, l994-97; assistant U.S. attorney for Minnesota, 1997; U.S. attorney for Minnesota, 1998-2001; partner, Robins, Kaplan, Miller & Ciresi in Minneapolis, 2001-08; U.S. attorney for Minnesota, 2009-present.

http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_18792428?source=rss

B. Todd Jones

President Barack Obama formally nominated B. Todd Jones for the position of United States Attorney for the District of Minnesota on June 4, 2009, and he was confirmed by the U.S. Senate on August 7, 2009. United States Attorneys serve as the nation's principal litigators under the direction of the Attorney General, and each is the chief federal law enforcement officer of the United States within his or her particular jurisdiction. Attorney General Eric Holder also has appointed Jones to serve as Chair of the Attorney General Advisory Committee (AGAC). This body, consisting of 18 United States Attorneys from around the country, is responsible for advising the Attorney General on a broad array of Department of Justice policy issues.

Prior to becoming U.S. Attorney, Jones was a partner with a major national law firm in Minneapolis, where his practice focused on complex business litigation. He has represented a number of organizations and individuals in both criminal and civil regulatory matters. Jones is a fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers. He also has served as special counsel to various boards of directors of public and privately held companies. In that capacity, he has led internal investigations and provided guidance on compliance and governance issues.

This is the second time Jones has served as United States Attorney. President Clinton appointed him to the position in 1998 and he served in that capacity until January 2001. Jones also has served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the District of Minnesota. During his initial tenure as a federal prosecutor, Jones conducted grand jury investigations and was the lead trial lawyer in a number of federal prosecutions involving drug trafficking, financial fraud, firearms, and violent crime.

Jones received his Juris Doctor from the University of Minnesota Law School in 1983. Following admission to the Minnesota bar, he went on active duty in the United States Marine Corps, where he served as both a trial defense counsel and prosecutor in a number of courts martial proceedings. In 1989, he and his family returned to Minnesota, where he developed a civil litigation practice encompassing a wide variety of legal matters, ranging from products liability defense and insurance coverage disputes to environmental and labor and employment controversies in both a private and public sector setting.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/meetattorney.html

Paslode

08-31-2011, 13:42

An interesting tidbit from the recent Wikileaks debacle regarding Mexico and Guns..

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/08/sipsey-street-exclusive-wikileaks-cable.html

tonyz

09-02-2011, 06:09

Oh what a tangled web BATF and DOJ may weave…

Cover-up in ATF gunwalker case? DUH !
September 1, 2011 6:20 p.m

By Sharyl Attkisson – CBS News online

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20100687-10391695.html

Congressional investigators tell CBS News there's evidence the U.S. Attorney's office in Arizona sought to cover up a link between their controversial gunwalking operation known as "Fast and Furious" and the death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Terry was murdered in Arizona near the US border last December. Two assault rifles ATF had allegedly allowed onto the street without interdiction were found at the scene.

But the US Attorney's office working both the Terry murder and the "Fast and Furious" operation did not immediately disclose the two had any link. Two Republicans investigating the scandal, Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) say there's evidence that officials at ATF and the US Attorney's office sought to hide the connection.

In a letter, Grassley and Issa say the lead prosecutor on Fast and Furious, Assistant US Attorney Emory Hurley, learned almost immediately that guns allowed onto the street in his case, had been recovered at Terry's murder. "(I)n the hours after Agent Terry's death," says the letter from Grassley and Issa, Hurley apparently "contemplated the connection between the two cases and sought to prevent the connection from being disclosed." The Justice Department recently transferred Hurley out of the criminal division into the civil division.

An internal ATF email dated the day after Terry's death reveals the quick decision to not disclose the source of the weapons found at the murder scene: "... this way we do not divulge our current case (Fast and Furious) or the Border Patrol shooting case."

Another ATF email indicates that the justification both offices used to not charge the suspect with crimes related to the murder scene "was to not 'complicate' the FBI's investigation."

ATF whistleblowers revealed the link between the two cases to Congressional investigators and CBS News, saying their supervisors were attempting to cover it up.

Today's letter from the Congressional Republicans also criticizes Hurley's boss, US Attorney Dennis Burke. It says Burke denied a connection between Fast and Furious and Terry's murder in court, but recently "readily admitted the connection" in an interview with Congressional investigators. Burke resigned from his job on Tuesday.

The Justice Department had no immediate comment. Burke and Hurley were not immediately reachable for comment.

Badger52

09-02-2011, 07:50

Oh what a tangled web BATF and DOJ may weave…
evidence ... An internal ATF email dated the day after Terry's death reveals... Another ATF email indicates... ...the link... Burke denied a connection between Fast and Furious and Terry's murder in court, but recently "readily admitted the connection" in an interview with Congressional investigators. I recall LTC North discussing his advice-seeking of Bill Casey RE tradecraft in setting up the arms/money/movement operation. Mr. Casey began to expound while LTC North pulled out pen & notebook. Casey exclaimed,

"Put that away, you idiot! You don't write this kind of stuff down!"

Don't ya just love record-keepers?
;)

grog18b

09-02-2011, 17:22

Today's letter from the Congressional Republicans also criticizes Hurley's boss, US Attorney Dennis Burke. It says Burke denied a connection between Fast and Furious and Terry's murder in court, but recently "readily admitted the connection" in an interview with Congressional investigators. Burke resigned from his job on Tuesday.

Sounds to me like Accessory to murder charges should be filed... This is WAY beyond a botched "investigation". Clear evidence they tried to hide their conduct... They knew they were responsible for Agent Terry's death. Indirectly, but still responsible. Were is one of us, we'd be in the gray bar motel.

tonyz

09-02-2011, 17:31

Sounds to me like Accessory to murder charges should be filed... This is WAY beyond a botched "investigation". Clear evidence they tried to hide their conduct... They knew they were responsible for Agent Terry's death. Indirectly, but still responsible. Were is one of us, we'd be in the gray bar motel.

Criminal charges should be filed and a special prosecutor should be appointed - that is why I have been on this like white on rice - never forget - (at least) one of ours has died because of direct bureaucratic incompetence - lord knows how many Mexican nationals have died (will die) because of this.

All the while, Holder farts in our oolong and calls it bubble tea.

Iraqgunz

09-05-2011, 13:29

Paslode

09-05-2011, 18:38

I predict that jack shit is going to happen. I keep hoping that something will but as the time goes by it seems to be all but forgotten. I was really hoping that the hearings being held by Issa and Grassely would put the nail in the coffin.

Before it all gets swept under the rug, they will throw a few more folks under the bus....but I highly doubt anyone of any significance will receive the justice they deserve.

rdret1

09-08-2011, 00:38

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/07/holder-denies-prior-knowledge-fast-and-furious/

Holder has said repeatedly he was not aware of the operation as it was unfolding, and others have said no one at the Justice Department in Washington was informed of it, but Issa insists Holder at least "should have known."

Considering the size and scope of "Gunrunner"; the costs involved with manpower, logistics and the fact that established laws were intentionally ignored; there is no way in hell you are ever going to convince me that approval was not sought from higher than a district office. Any lower level supervisor would have had to ensure this operation would have been reviewed by not only his superiors, but probably by several department attorneys.

These people couldn't tell the truth if their asses were on fire!

Ret10Echo

09-08-2011, 04:41

Before it all gets swept under the rug, they will throw a few more folks under the bus....but I highly doubt anyone of any significance will receive the justice they deserve.

That is the way D.C. functions. There is always a bus with your name on it out there...sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don't. Usually it's the poor bastard who doesn't know the whole picture, he's just working in his little chunk of reality.

1stindoor

09-09-2011, 06:34

New on FOX News.

Authorities confirm a weapon from the failed ATF program 'Operation Fast and Furious' was found at a violent crime scene in Maricopa, Ariz. in 2010. This is the latest in a series of cases where Fast and Furious guns have been linked to violent crimes across the U.S. and Mexico.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/08/weapons-linked-to-fast-and-furious-found-at-violent-arizona-crime-scene/#ixzz1XSSlClPj

LongWire

09-19-2011, 16:51

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september182011/fast-furious-ns.php

Sep-18-2011 16:36
A Story about the System

By Nancy Slaff The Alpine Sun
U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel - before they separated from the Mexican Army.

(SAN DIEGO) - Normal functioning humans, working for any government bureaucracy, often undergo a mystical transformation upon entering their workplace. They change into dysfunctional beings. “The system” makes this occur randomly or all the time.

Almost everything has been said and written about “Operation Gun Walker” or “Fast and Furious”; the latest government ‘snafu’ where government agents became creative in a way to “catch” cartel folks. Each day the story seems to grow and branch in a different direction.

Credit to this becoming public information is largely due The Salem-News and one of its investigative reporters, Tim King (Salem-News.com; July 14, 2011 – Report on Eric Holder & U.S. Weapons smuggling program to Mexico Making Rounds. A break in secrecy also belongs to a few brave ATF&E (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) employees, knowing that their jobs are in jeopardy and/or their lives. Many of these men and women are dedicated law enforcement personnel who had to leave their personal beliefs at home because “the system” demands it.
Fast and Furious may have inadvertently caused the deaths of thousands of human beings – not just Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and Special Agent Jaime Zapata. One of the guns found at the scene of Agent Brian Terry’s body was a first indicator. A clue something had gone wrong in the system. Several high-ranking government folks claim no knowledge of the plan, but acknowledge that Cartels kill people; often with a gun. Notably, the origin of guns for all cartel killings is unknown, only that ATF&E-supplied-guns are in cartel hands.

The loss of U.S. agents in this program was apparently not considered up front even though allowing guns into the hands of cartels would almost surely result in the death of a human being; perhaps centered around other warring cartel members. Some ATF&E agents had already considered that Cartels and Border Patrol agents operate simultaneously along the same border and feared for fallout from “the program ”. “The system’s” guns were not manufactured in America, but sold in America. “The story” developed after federal agents were killed, not before that while picking up body parts on the streets of Nuevo Laredo or Juarez.

As information grows we learn that ATF&E agents would follow locally purchased guns to the buyers home. The guns would then be moved from that house to a car. Paid US informants or cartel personnel would move the guns to Mexico. But agents were advised to “stand down and surveil”. For more information read the report released through the Associated Press by Pauline Arrillaga’s “What led to Project Gunrunner?”
The degree of responsibility varies, but, to be expected, lower-level federal agents are being “thrown under the bus”. Those higher up the chain of events run fast and furious proving that amnesia can come and go at will, and others are expendable, just as those innocents who may have been killed with fast and furious guns. As the story grows, the multiplicity of fault grows with it.

According to news reports, for years the Mexican government has pleaded with the U.S. government to restrict the flow of guns into Mexico. It appeared the Mexican government blamed the American people. Certainly the American anti-gun lobby took that position. Some American gun shop owners, certainly in the Phoenix, Arizona and likely El Paso Texas area, sold multiple assault weapons to legitimate buyers at 20-40 assault weapons at a time. Now ATF&E has sent demand letters to firearms retailers in border states ordering they must begin reporting multiple sales of any semi-automatic rifle larger than .22 caliber and capable of accepting a detachable magazine. In response, the Firearms Industry has filed suit against ATF&E.
U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel, suspected of firing the shots at our agents. Although they were not cartel members at that time, this previous military training is a part of “the story”.

Guns used in Mexico’s cartel wars come from a variety of sources around the world – a part of our global economy that involves many players with a variety of agendas. Most certainly not all guns used in the killing of innocents belong to Fast and Furious. The gist of “the story” involves plans to actually place guns in the hand of cartels, and now no one knows for sure where all the unconfiscated guns are.

“The story” expands. According to KSAT.com (El Paso Texas) DPS authorities are gearing up for Cartel wars along the U.S. border. There is growing fear that cartel wars may disrupt Mexico’s election cycle in 2012. Drug Cartels now operating inside Texas and other states in North America are suspected of hoarding high-powered weapons that could become a factor in any coming revolution that – according to Texas authorities - will likely spread into U.S border states…and possibly beyond.

Meanwhile another case appears, in defense of a Sinaloa Cartel member. According to Diana Washington Valdez of The El Paso Times: Documents: Feds allegedly allowed Sinaloa cartel to move cocaine into U.S. for information. CIA agents purportedly allowed cocaine to be smuggled into the U.S by the Sinaloa cartel for information on other cartels
The general American public can’t do anything about “the system”. The system works in mysterious ways. Making deals for information goes back a very long time. But now, one allows for guns to be walked out of the United States. Then it likely allows drugs to be walked into the United States. “The system” convolutes where the blame truly lies…but is a fact of life. And that’s the story. For now anyway.

greenberetTFS

09-19-2011, 17:30

U.S. Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, initially trained members of the Los Zeta’s Cartel, suspected of firing the shots at our agents./Quote/LongWire.

I totally agree with LW,WTF is going on?.......:confused: Anyone know if this is really true?.......:eek: If not,than that reporter should be taken to task for not validating her sources............:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Paslode

09-19-2011, 17:37

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september182011/fast-furious-ns.php

I believe the Los Zetas thing has been discussed on this board before, and it is likely that the media is telling only a portion of the facts to divert attention from the real problems.

The Reaper

09-19-2011, 17:51

Trust me, we do not just "decide" to train anyone.

We are placed under orders to do so, by our civilian leadership.

Over the years, I believe we have trained most of our enemies and former enemies.

Iranians, Nicaraguans, Panamanians, Venezualans, Colombians, Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc., etc.

TR

Peregrino

09-19-2011, 20:11

A small number of Mexican service members who trained at FBNC as part of an OVERT program later left the Mexican military and went to work for the cartels. It happens. We did not train cartel members and the Mexican military can hardly control what former members do with their training. Every military in the world suffers similar problems with ex-soldiers. By suggesting the link, the reporter is being disingenuous. Reportorial ethics is a much greater oxymoron than military intelligence ever has been. I have spoken with several Mexican officers about the issue in years past; trust me when I say they are far more upset about the "betrayal" than we will ever be.

greenberetTFS

09-19-2011, 20:22

Reportorial ethics is a much greater oxymoron than military intelligence ever has been. Peregrino

Concur :D:D:D

Big Teddy :munchin

Badger52

09-20-2011, 11:22

By Nancy Slaff The Alpine Sun

Credit to this becoming public information is largely due The Salem-News and one of its investigative reporters, Tim King (Salem-News.com; July 14, 2011 –
HORSEHOCKEY!

sinjefe

09-21-2011, 18:44

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/21/audio-tapes-reveal-more-details-in-fast-and-furious-gunrunner-scandal/

This just gets worse and worse. IF true, unf------ believable!

tonyz

09-22-2011, 07:48

FWIW, copies of an email (intending to skewer a whistleblower) but, instead, resulting in as much as BATF admitting that “walking” guns was not unknown to high ranking folks at BATF - below.

In light of this email discovery (if true) - it is interesting to go back and review the tapes posted in the link where SA Newell test-a-lies, uh, I mean testifies before the House Oversight Committee, suggesting that he/BATF NEVER, NEVER allowed guns to walk…probably thinking to himself that those guns in question were driven across the border -- hell -- some might have even watched them being driven -- but they NEVER, NEVER, walk.

From the article:

A Gun Rights Examiner/Sipsey Street Irregulars exclusive
Examined objectively, Rubenstein admitted guns were purposely allowed to walk, that walking guns to a foreign country must be hidden from the public, and that if the Mexicans found out about it, cooperative law enforcement efforts would be jeopardized.

A just-uncovered January 5, 2011 email to former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Acting Director Kenneth Melson from Stephen R. Rubenstein, Chief Counsel, ATF, responded to a request by Melson for information regarding allegations on whistleblower website CleanUpATF that walked guns were linked to the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, and indicated this was a violation of ATF Orders and Standards of Conduct.

Copies of the email and Melson’s reply are posted in this correspondent's Scribd account and included in the sidebar slideshow accompanying this article.

Snip from the email:

“The disclosure of this information has a potential deleterious effect on ATF's undercover operations,” Rubenstien continued. “In that regard, suspects may alter their behavior if they know that law enforcement is allowing certain firearms to 'walk' into Mexico. In addition, public knowledge of this type of operation potentially places informants and undercover agents in jeopardy. Finally, public disclosure of such information could ATF's working relationship with Mexico.”

Link below to Sipsey Street Irregulars and David Codrea’s work and copy of email:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/09/codreavanderboegh-exclusive-atf-counsel.html

219seminole

09-22-2011, 09:22

I watched the ATF testimony before Rep Issa's committee and I have to say that Bill Newell, formerly SAC in Phoenix and now reassigned out of harm's way in DC, is one of the true villians in this matter. He can find more ways to parse a phrase and protect his butt.

When asked several times what he would do differently today, he said he would "do more risk assessment".

Newell is a real piece of work and is the kind of guy who rises to the top in a ridged, top-to-down, organization. The video linked below is more than 4 hours but it is worth watching. Newell's prepared testimony begins at 37:30 and at 1:06:30 Rep Burton questions him.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/300716-1

tonyz

09-22-2011, 12:29

Thank you for that link 219Seminole.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/300716-1

I half listened to part of the testimony (again) for approx. 2 hrs in between morning meetings and lunch today.

While the entire keystone cop segment starring SA Newell is “riveting” - if time is limited - about 30 minutes of particular note are identified below - and should be sufficient for one to develop a sense of how the testimony proceeded.

1. When you watch the tapes and see Newell on display - cloaked with the imprimatur of the BATF - ask yourself - did he appear forthright and direct - or did he exhibit the characteristics of one trying HARD to obfuscate the truth?

Then,

2. Given the email disclosure yesterday - which IMO is tantamount to acknowledging that guns did “walk” and high level folks knew of and used the term “walk” w/r/t guns - now consider this information in light of Newell’s testimony…it's like the middle man in the illegal gun deal saying that while they might have committed the overt acts sufficient for the crime - they never intended or considered themselves to be a “straw…”

1:18-1:27 SA Newell - stonewalling.

1:28:04 a minute or so - Lorren Leadmon, BATF Intelligence Operations Specialist, BATF…his take on situation is that agents walked away from trafficked guns.

1:30 Rep Trey Gowdy entire approx. 5 minute questioning of Newell on “straw purchasers.”

1:43:16 and on for a few minutes - Testimony of Carlos Canino – BATF acting representative to Mexico…”…inconceivable to follow known gun traffickers and walk away…”

1:55:42 and for approx. 5 minutes - ISSA questioning Newell… “…you’ve been here as a paid nonanswerer…” ”you’re entitled to your opinion not to your facts…”

Badger52

09-26-2011, 11:48

LINK to story (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/26/us-government-bought-and-sold-weapons-during-fast-and-furious-documents-show/)

U.S. Government Bought and Sold Weapons During 'Fast and Furious,' Documents Show
By William Lajeunesse
Published September 26, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

Operation Fast and Furious began in October 2009. In it, federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives encouraged guns stores to sell weapons to an arms smuggling gang, then watched as the guns crossed the border and were used in crimes. Each month, the agency allowed hundreds of guns to go south, despite opposition from some agents.
All told, the gang spent more than $1.25 million for the illegal guns.

In June 2010, however, the ATF dramatically upped the ante, making the U.S. government the actual "seller" of guns.

According to documents obtained by Fox News, Agent John Dodson was ordered to buy six semi-automatic Draco pistols -- two of those were purchased at the Lone Wolf gun store in Peoria, Ariz. An unusual sale, Dodson was sent to the store with a letter of approval from David Voth, an ATF group supervisor.

Dodson then sold the weapons to known illegal buyers, while fellow agents watched from their cars nearby.

This was not a "buy-bust" or a sting operation, where police sell to a buyer and then arrest them immediately afterward. In this case, agents were "ordered" to let the sale go through and follow the weapons to a stash house.

According to sources directly involved in the case, Dodson felt strongly that the weapons should not be abandoned and the stash house should remain under 24-hour surveillance. However, Voth disagreed and ordered the surveillance team to return to the office. Dodson refused, and for six days in the desert heat kept the house under watch, defying direct orders from Voth.

A week later, a second vehicle showed up to transfer the weapons. Dodson called for an interdiction team to move in, make the arrest and seize the weapons. Voth refused and the guns disappeared with no surveillance.

According to a story posted Sunday on a website dedicated to covering Fast and Furious, Voth gave Dodson the assignment to "dirty him up," since Dodson had become the most vocal critic of the operation.

"I think Dodson demanded the letter from Voth to cover both himself and the FFL (Federal Firearm Licensee). He didn't want to be hung out to dry by Voth," a source told the website "Sipsey Street Irregulars."

Subsequent to this undercover operation, sources told Sipsey: "Dodson just about came apart all over them (his supervisors). In a 'screaming match' that was heard throughout the Phoenix office by many employees, Dodson yelled at Voth and Assistant Special Agent in Charge George Gillett, 'Why not just go direct and empty out the (ATF) arms room?" (to the cartels), or words to that effect.'

After the confrontation, ATF managers transferred Dodson to a more menial job. Months later, after the death of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, Dodson blew the whistle and went public about the federal government's gunrunning operation.
------------
Couple of footnotes, in the interest of being fair & balanced, dontcha know:

The "documents obtained by Fox News" are, of themselves, nothing new. That ATF leadership explicitly ordered off surveillance in progress of straw-bought guns is long known from the earliest disclosures. But that a mainstream outlet is trying to peddle faster to keep up with this scandal is a good thing.
SSI is not "dedicated to covering Fast and Furious" - it just happens to be a monster issue that's right in the wheelhouse of their core mission. And kudos to Fox for actually mentioning the website (and thereby the work done by David Codrea and Mike Vanderboergh) to begin with - that almost never happens. SSI's coverage in this area has been somewhat larger of a thorn to the administration and has probably provoked more than one witch hunt. The access that must be had by people who freely furnish info to SSI probably drives them nuts on the order of a Sarah Palin mania. I'm sure now that, in the DoJ, it only takes a toggle switch to add another level to the conspiracy of 'under-performing malcontents interacting with the blogosphere'. Adding Fox News is a default layer for them so that's easy. The water's fine, Fox; keep paddling, you're in good company.

rdret1

09-26-2011, 12:32

Paslode

09-26-2011, 14:08

Eventually, this will be traced to the very top. I firmly believe Holder was fully in the loop, as well as BHO. There is no way a regional office could give approval of an operation that was so clearly against ATF regs and NFA laws.

Considering that back in 2009 BHO and Holder (along with Clinton and Napolitano) were out promoting the idea that 90% of the Mexican weapons came from US sources and pushing for additional weapons laws......it is not only quite likely it went top, but they may also have committed fraud, intimidated witnesses, been accessories to murder and conspired to usurp US Law.

It is sad.

Badger52

09-26-2011, 14:28

afchic

09-26-2011, 14:49

Just read a news report on Fox where they claim to havee paperwork that shows taxpayer money was being used to purchase weapons.

The Reaper

09-26-2011, 18:41

Badger52

09-27-2011, 07:18

Just read a news report on Fox where they claim to havee paperwork that shows taxpayer money was being used to purchase weapons.Yes ma'am. That story is right back there, at post #164.

tonyz

09-27-2011, 09:08

Considering that back in 2009 BHO and Holder (along with Clinton and Napolitano) were out promoting the idea that 90% of the Mexican weapons came from US sources and pushing for additional weapons laws......it is not only quite likely it went top, but they may also have committed fraud, intimidated witnesses, been accessories to murder and conspired to usurp US Law.

It is sad.

Spot on - and it is what I have believed from the beginning - that Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and thousands of other innocents (mostly, but not all, Mexican Nationals) died partly because of THIS REGIME'S political objectives regarding its anti-2A stance.

If true, being thrown out of office is the least that should happen. And yes, the WH, DOJ and State need to be examined closely. The walking of guns in the manner that has been described in public hearings, suggests, to me, a wanton disregard for human life.

Considering the sounds that were emanating from the very top of those ivory towers regarding US guns fueling border/Mexican violence - Obama, Holder and Hillary (and their staffs) were either complicit in walking guns across the border or stupid and unacceptably naïve.

The main stream media has also been complicit by not drilling down to pressure this regime to investigate and release every detail possible without endangering lives.

Now the regime has Solyandra…half a billion very green dollars up in smoke later - luckily no one died - but they "didn’t know"…again. And, Solyndra also fit this regime’s very specific political agenda.

Either this regime is one of the more corrupt - ever - or arguably one of the more incompetent administrations - ever. Maybe both.

Roll on November 6, 2012.

tonyz

09-28-2011, 07:38

Sen. Chuck Grassley interview w/Greta in case some missed it..."...wouldn't surprise me if this goes to the top..."

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1184288127001/how-taxpayers-paid-to-arm-mexican-drug-cartels/

Paslode

09-28-2011, 10:49

The main stream media has also been complicit by not drilling down to pressure this regime to investigate and release every detail possible without endangering lives.

That is what they get paid to do.

Now the regime has Solyandra…half a billion very green dollars up in smoke later - luckily no one died - but they "didn’t know"…again. And, Solyndra also fit this regime’s very specific political agenda.

Either this regime is one of the more corrupt - ever - or arguably one of the more incompetent administrations - ever. Maybe both.

From insider trading and Donor/Supporter payoffs, that happens on both sides of the Red/Blue fence in a big way and is the status quo in DC.

Roll on November 6, 2012.

Well I hope we get there, but when ideas like this (Dusty's thread (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35248)) keep popping up....Alex Jones may beat the odds be proven correct. And if we do make it 11/6 and BHO is kicked to the curb....there is a growing chance of street party with chains and ax handles.

tonyz

09-28-2011, 11:30

From insider trading and Donor/Supporter payoffs, that happens on both sides of the Red/Blue fence in a big way and is the status quo in DC.

Agreed. The status quo (in DC) needs to go.

Allen West, Marco Rubio (and others that I am not as familiar with) are a strong start for some real change in DC.

Odds are, despite the noise, we will make make it to November 6, 2012.

Then, the real work begins - IMO, the deep cutting that must be done in DC will be necessary, but quite painful. But, that's for another thread.

Those currently in DC who are responsible for this fiasco must be held to answer for their apparent negligence in this matter.

Keep the faith.

Surf n Turf

09-29-2011, 11:51

This might “force” some congressional action.
SnT

MEXICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: "OBAMA MORE INVOLVED IN FAST & FURIOUS THAN ADMITTED!"

In a statement released by Mexican Attorney General Marisela Morales, she called Operation Fast and Furious “an attack on Mexicans’ security.
Morales told Mexican reporters that she is demanding a full and honest explanation from the United States government especially since evidence is being gathered that reveals the Obama administration was more involved in Operation Fast and Furious than top officials admitted in their sworn statements.
Morales said that if U.S. federal officials were involved, it would be a “betrayal” of Mexico.
Tens of thousands of Mexicans have been killed since the "war on drugs" began in 2006. Almost weekly, Mexican authorities are finding mass graves of those murdered by the cartels.
http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/News/National_News/MEXICAN_ATTORNEY_GENERAL_OBAMA_MORE_INVOLVED_IN_FA ST_FURIOUS_THAN_ADMITTED/51146

Mycroft

09-29-2011, 13:24

Forbes now has a 6 page breakdown of Operation Fast and Furious with a decent explained timeline of events.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2011/09/28/fast-and-furious-just-might-be-president-obamas-watergate/

rdret1

09-29-2011, 18:18

BigJimCalhoun

09-29-2011, 18:23

Ironically, no outrage yet from the Brady people or the Violence Policy Center. If it really was about violence, they would care...

Paslode

09-29-2011, 19:56

Nice to see others in the media taking on the story, however this paragraph is BS.

the National Rifle Association has been on top of this story from the beginning.

It is widely beleived that it was the BLOG CleanupATF.org that got this ball rolling and it has been BLOGGERS most notably David Cordera and Mike Vanderboegh were the on top of this from the beginning (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker). The NRA didn't even recognize the story until Friday, March 25, 2011 (http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/03/25/nra-boss-unveils-shocking-news-on-radio/).

And by chance Mr. Vanderboegh set a few facts straight today (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/09/truth-media-bias-and-collectivist.html) in a related topic.

Pete

10-01-2011, 03:29

New Fast and Furious docs released by White House

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20114184-10391695.html

"WASHINGTON - Late Friday, the White House turned over new documents in the Congressional investigation into the ATF "Fast and Furious" gunwalking scandal.

The documents show extensive communications between then-ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office Bill Newell - who led Fast and Furious - and then-White House National Security Staffer Kevin O'Reilly. Emails indicate the two also spoke on the phone. Such detailed, direct communications between a local ATF manager in Phoenix and a White House national security staffer has raised interest among Congressional investigators looking into Fast and Furious. Newell has said he and O'Reilly are long time friends....................."

What did "HE" know and when did he know it? Seems to be the key question these days.

Paslode

10-01-2011, 09:44

"WASHINGTON - Late Friday, the White House turned over new documents in the Congressional investigation into the ATF "Fast and Furious" gunwalking scandal.

CBS: White House does Friday night document dump! Admits more contacts between O'Reilly and Newell. Once again, Sipsey Street sources are dead on! (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/09/cbs-white-house-does-friday-night.html)

Paslode

10-01-2011, 11:02

More interesting BATFE rumors..

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf/page/full/preview

Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. ATF agents wouldn’t be reassigned to other positions, just simply let go. Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.

Last week, ATF offered 400 agents buy outs to avoid budget cuts and is expecting 250-275 agents to take the offer through Voluntary Early Retirement. These buyouts come at a convenient time for the Justice Department, which can eliminate ATF, then say it’s because of budget cuts, when really, it’s to cover their tracks (http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=48854&oref=todaysnews)

The early retirement discussion goes back to May 23, 2011 (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/why-is-atf-considering-early-outs-for-experienced-employees)

Animal8526

10-01-2011, 21:28

Shoot, I'd light up my senators and reps phones to make that move.

Team Sergeant

10-02-2011, 10:30

More interesting BATFE rumors..

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf/page/full/preview

Last week, ATF offered 400 agents buy outs to avoid budget cuts and is expecting 250-275 agents to take the offer through Voluntary Early Retirement. These buyouts come at a convenient time for the Justice Department, which can eliminate ATF, then say it’s because of budget cuts, when really, it’s to cover their tracks (http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=48854&oref=todaysnews)

The early retirement discussion goes back to May 23, 2011 (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/why-is-atf-considering-early-outs-for-experienced-employees)

Yeah, let's add the TSA and DHS to that list of "No Longer Needed Federal Agencies".....

What the people need now is a "Less Federal Government Czar".

Paslode

10-02-2011, 11:43

Yeah, let's add the TSA and DHS to that list of "No Longer Needed Federal Agencies".....

What the people need now is a "Less Federal Government Czar".

I am inclined to have those same feelings/ideas, but I come back to the question if the BATFE is dissolved what will we get from the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Obama, Holder, Napolitano and Clinton) in return.

Will the dissolved agency and it's regulations be absorbed into another agency or agencies? Will the dissolved agencies regulations become void? If the regulations become void, how will that be handled..........maybe a Gun Czar, another agency with a whole new set of rules and regulations or maybe another Edict from the DC Messiah?

Ret10Echo

10-02-2011, 18:21

Will the dissolved agency and it's regulations be absorbed into another agency or agencies?

Nothing in DC REALLY goes away...it just gets reflagged and redesignated.

The machine keeps churning.

Jefe

10-03-2011, 07:31

"What the people need now is a "Less Federal Government Czar".
__________________

LOL, agreed wholeheartedly. We are the only country I know of with something like 40 different Federal Law Enforcement Agencies rather than 1 or 2. 14 Intelligence Agencies and the GOVs answer to bring Unity of Effort is to create more agencies.

Like CIA was supposed to field all intel but that didn't work so lets create another office like DNI.

tonyz

10-03-2011, 18:41

There are videos and links to documents embedded in the full story.

October 3, 2011 5:59 PM

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

By Sharyl Attkisson
CBS News – online

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20115038-10391695.html?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

On May 3, 2011, Holder told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."

Yet internal Justice Department documents show that at least ten months before that hearing, Holder began receiving frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious.

Yet internal Justice Department documents show that at least ten months before that hearing, Holder began receiving frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious.

The documents came from the head of the National Drug Intelligence Center and Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer.

In Fast and Furious, ATF agents allegedly allowed thousands of weapons to cross the border and fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

It's called letting guns "walk," and it remained secret to the public until Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered last December. Two guns from Fast and Furious were found at the scene, and ATF agent John Dodson blew the whistle on the operation.

Ever since, the Justice Department has publicly tried to distance itself. But the new documents leave no doubt that high level Justice officials knew guns were being "walked."

Two Justice Department officials mulled it over in an email exchange Oct. 18, 2010. "It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but is a significant set of prosecutions," says Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division.

Deputy Chief of the National Gang Unit James Trusty replies "I'm not sure how much grief we get for 'guns walking.' It may be more like, "Finally they're going after people who sent guns down there."

The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General. And tonight they tell CBS News, Holder misunderstood that question from the committee - he did know about Fast and Furious - just not the details.[/

Paslode

10-03-2011, 20:31

There are videos and links to documents embedded in the full story.

It would be nice to see, better yet a good start to see Holder and Breuer get smoked over this.

greenberetTFS

10-04-2011, 04:36

Eventually, this will be traced to the very top. I firmly believe Holder was fully in the loop, as well as BHO. There is no way a regional office could give approval of an operation that was so clearly against ATF regs and NFA laws.

I believe your right on target and eventually it will all come out on both of them........:mad::mad::mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

glebo

10-04-2011, 06:10

I believe your right on target and eventually it will all come out on both of them........:mad::mad::mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Yeah, probably true...but what do you think will come out of it??...nothing!!

They'll get scolded, people will forget, and it will be history before ya know it...

Badger52

10-04-2011, 07:40

What the people need now is a "Less Federal Government Czar".I'd be behind that if it's first priority would be the removal of all current Czars & Czarinas.

This would require someone with a background in doing quality mentoring, in a hostile environment, with a tolerate no slackers approach, and at a professional level that would eventually work themselves out of a job, leaving a smaller but sustainable organism behind. You probably know of a few qualified for that role...
:D

Sidenote: Can't recall exactly from work desk, but thought there was a DoJ appropriation in recent last-minute budget that had a prohibitive clause inserted that prevents any appropriations during FY12 from being used to eliminate or transfer the roles of ATF. So reports (and wishes) that ATF could be eliminated may be premature and would require bigger level of effort than just buyouts of career folks. May have been SSI that had that link.

tonyz

10-04-2011, 09:38

Despite the BATF rumors firearms will be regulated in some form and fashion by the feds - even if that responsibility rolls up to, for instance, Homeland Security and big sis - or is transferred to some new or even an existing bureaucracy.

Moreover, if a change occurs to BATF during this administration it will not benefit lawful firearm owners.

Holder and Clinton have a well-known agenda and are carrying the water for Obama and the left.

Some of the politically astute career bureaucrats at BATF and other places have supported - and are supporting - that agenda.

Whether intentional or not - BATF’s contribution to this fiasco by flooding the border with US firearms provided Obama, Holder, Clinton, Boxer, et al, an opportunity to make substantial inroads - intending, I believe, to at a minimum breathe life back into the expired assault weapons ban.

I suspect that some bureaucrats knew full well what this administration wanted in terms of story line - and gave it to them.

************

Below is a partial transcript and a link to an interview between Hillary and Greta from March 2009.

************

VAN SUSTEREN: When you were in the United States the other day, you said something about the co-responsibility. It's rubbed some people the wrong way, as though that's a blame. I take it, having known you for years, that what you're sort of doing when you talk about how the money -- the drugs are here in Mexico. The market is in the United States with the money, and then the guns come back across the border, that it wasn't necessarily a blame, but rather to sort of identify the different parameters so we know how to deal with the problem. I mean, is that...

CLINTON: That's exactly right. I mean, I think it's -- it would inaccurate to absolve ourselves of responsibility or to absolve the Mexicans of responsibility. This is a shared responsibility. We share the border. And as you rightly said, the demand for illegal drugs is what keeps these guys in business. And it's a, you know, multi-billion-dollar, $25-plus billion industry.

The guns that are sold in the United States, which are illegal in Mexico, get smuggled and shipped across our border and arm these terrible drug-dealing criminals so that they can outgun these poor police officers along the border and elsewhere in Mexico.

VAN SUSTEREN: And they desperately need more funding because they have some presence here in Mexico under the agreement, and every time that there is a bust here of huge weapons, they track down where these weapons are from. They go in there with the cooperation of the Mexicans. And the ATF has told us these weapons, these automatic weapons that go right through these -- you know, right through police officers here, are coming from the United States.

CLINTON: There's no doubt about it. And you know, Greta, I remember 15 years ago, the reason the assault weapons ban was passed is because police chiefs in America begged for it. They said, I'm sending my guys out onto the street, they're being outgunned. The criminals, the gang members, they have automatic weapons, military assault rifles. Get them off the street. Give our guys a fighting chance.

And there's no doubt in my mind that the 10 years we had an assault weapons ban in America was one of the tools that helped to drive down the crime rate. And we've been really fortunate. We changed our policing techniques, which we're sharing with the Mexicans. We put in more technology, which we're advising the Mexicans about. But getting those assault weapons off the streets was really helpful. We also began to better arm our own police.But if Americans will just think back, those of us old enough to remember, what it was like 15, 20 years ago when our own police were facing those assault weapons, and now, unfortunately, the Mexican police are.

So we have to take our share of the responsibility because they're bought by straw purchasers. They are smuggled across the border. And then they are used to, as you point out, you know, kill a brave policewoman who was doing her job.

VAN SUSTEREN: And it's the ATF here who told us, We need help. You know, it's not the Mexicans, it's our people here in New Mexico that told us...

CLINTON: Well, and the ATF guys are doing everything they can do, but we want to give them some more authority. You know, they need some help tracking down the illegal guns and where they came from. And we've got to give them, you know, more authority. You know, if you're the strongest pro-gun person in America, you have to stop and ask yourself, OK, we want those guns in our country. But another country just across our border has different laws. So why should we be the source of their problems?

If we want to have them in our country, fine. That's -- you know, that's for us to decide. But the Mexican police and people have decided they don't want them in their country, and we're facilitating by our inability to stop the illegal sale and smuggling of these guns.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/2009/03/27/secretary-state-clinton-confronts-problems-mexico-and-north-korea

Mycroft

10-04-2011, 11:27

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/04/house-republicans-to-request-special-counsel-to-probe-holder-on-fast-and/

And a special counsel is now being requested to investigate Holder for lying to congress.

Now the only question is if he will fall on his sword or take everyone with him.

Dusty

10-04-2011, 12:42

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbs-news-reporter-says-white-house-screamed-swore-her-over-fast-and-furious_595011.html

Badger52

10-04-2011, 12:56

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbs-news-reporter-says-white-house-screamed-swore-her-over-fast-and-furious_595011.html
Finally, Attkisson notes that the White House is claiming that a thorough investigation of the scandal is unwarranted:

"[The White House and Justice Department] will tell you that I'm the only reporter--as they told me--that is not reasonable. They say the Washington Post is reasonable, the LA Times is reasonable, the New York Times is reasonable, I'm the only one who thinks this is a story, and they think I'm unfair and biased by pursuing it."There's alot of kool-aid at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave apparently.

tonyz

10-04-2011, 13:22

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbs-news-reporter-says-white-house-screamed-swore-her-over-fast-and-furious_595011.html

I know that the cited article says screaming - but I think Attkisson probably meant squealing…like when a pig is frightened. It couldn't happen to better people - socialist MFs.

http://www.junglewalk.com/Asounds/pig_scared.wav

“Ingraham: So they were literally screaming at you?

Attkisson: Yes. Well the DOJ woman was just yelling at me. The guy from the White House on Friday night literally screamed at me and cussed at me. [Laura: Who was the person? Who was the person at Justice screaming?] Eric Schultz. Oh, the person screaming was [DOJ spokeswoman] Tracy Schmaler, she was yelling not screaming. And the person who screamed at me was Eric Schultz at the White House."

BOfH

10-04-2011, 13:39

Typical, and sadly the sheeple buy it.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJ_0RC29mA0_cz7UXWAE_y2dWikA?docId=09d6fa8b4 c7a44089382e04b303ad45c

AP sources: Bush-era probe involved guns 'walking'

WASHINGTON (AP) — The federal government under the Bush administration ran an operation that allowed hundreds of guns to be transferred to suspected arms traffickers — the same tactic that congressional Republicans have criticized President Barack Obama's administration for using, two federal law enforcement officials said Tuesday.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and other Republicans have been hammering the Obama Justice Department over the practice known as "letting guns walk," or leave law enforcement custody to trace their sales. Their target has been Operation Fast and Furious, which was designed to track small-time gun buyers at several Phoenix-area gun shops up the chain to make cases against major weapons traffickers.

When Bush, a Republican, was president, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Tucson, Ariz., used a similar enforcement tactic in a program it called Operation Wide Receiver. The fact that there were two such ATF investigations years apart in separate administrations raises the possibility that agents in still other cases may have allowed guns to "walk" rather than seizing them.

Federal law enforcement officials familiar with the matter say Operation Wide Receiver began in 2006 after the agency received information about a suspicious purchase of firearms. The investigation concluded in 2007 without any charges being filed.

After Obama took office, the Justice Department reviewed Wide Receiver and discovered that ATF had permitted guns to be transferred to suspected gun traffickers, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the practice is under investigation by Congress and the Justice Department inspector general's office.

In a statement, Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said that "whether it's Operation Fast and Furious, Operation Wide Receiver, or both, it's clear that guns were walked, and people high in the Justice Department knew about it. There's no excuse for walking guns, and if there are more operations like this, Congress and the American people need to know."

Following the discovery that agents in Tucson let the guns "walk," a tactic which has long been against Justice Department policy, the department under Obama decided to bring charges against those who had come under investigation in 2006.

To date in Wide Receiver, nine people have been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms. Two of the nine defendants have pleaded guilty and a plea hearing is scheduled for Oct. 13 for two other defendants.

Last October, a Justice Department lawyer, Jason Weinstein, raised concerns about investigative methods in Operation Wide Receiver and about the timing of announcing indictments in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious.

"It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked, but it is a significant set of prosecutions," Weinstein wrote in a Justice Department email turned over to Congress, which released the document.

Weinstein raised the question in asking whether Lanny Breuer, the assistant attorney general who runs the Justice Department's criminal division, should participate in a news conference when indictments in Fast and Furious and the case resulting from Wide Receiver were unsealed.

The two federal law enforcement officials said Weinstein's language about "a tricky case" referred to Wide Receiver, not Fast and Furious.

In an emailed reply to Weinstein, James Trusty, at the time deputy chief in the gang unit at the Justice Department, said "it's not going to be any big surprise that a bunch of US guns are being used in MX (Mexico), so I'm not sure how much grief we get for 'guns walking.' It may be more like, 'Finally, they're going after people who sent guns down there."

The two law enforcement officials said the language of Trusty's email also refers to the Tucson case, not Fast and Furious.

Trusty's email adds "I think so" on the question of whether Breuer should participate in a press conference, but Trusty adds that "timing will be tricky too."

It continued: "Looks like we'll be able to unseal the Tucson case sooner than the Fast and Furious (although this may be just the difference between Nov and Dec). It's not clear how much we're involved in the main F and F case, but we have Tucson and now a new, related case with (deleted) targets."

The Justice Department blacked out the number of targets in this apparent related third case before turning the email over to congressional investigators on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

Fast and Furious was a response to longstanding criticism of ATF for concentrating on small-time gun violations and failing to attack the kingpins of weapons trafficking. A congressional investigation of the program has turned up evidence that ATF lost track of many of the more than 2,000 guns linked to the operation.

Operation Fast and Furious came to light after two assault rifles purchased by a now-indicted small-time buyer under scrutiny in the operation turned up at a shootout in Arizona where Customs and Border Protection agent Brian Terry was killed.

Copyright © 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Badger52

10-04-2011, 14:10

Deny all, admit nothing, make counter accusations. This was a good (from their view) smoke pot to light. If the committee and the testimony already on the record is given its due it will illuminate the diff between the program that was (which seized straw buyers & got the guns back) and the current F&F program post- early SECSTATE visit to Mexico.

In the trenches, it requires those who've been following it from the start to give the "rest of the story" when a Bush-basher steps up quoting this pablum.

Have they blamed Pearl Harbor on Bush yet?

Dusty

10-04-2011, 14:18

I still blame Clinton for stuff. Difference is, I'm right.

tonyz

10-04-2011, 14:31

LOL – misdirection ! Hide the pea !!!

Am I mistaken or has it been for nearly 3 years on Holder’s and Obama’s watch.

The cry of “…Bush’s fault…” must be getting old - even for Obama ideologues and senior editors - these guys really are a one trick pony. Misdirection is basically all that this administration has available to them.

And, while misdirection has worked to date - like most any marketing campaign - 3 years into it - it is growing a bit old and tired. But, they are going to trot this dog and pony show out until it fails.

It would not surprise me if some investigations might actually straddle administrations. But, this is, and has been for nearly 3 years, Holder’s and Obama’s watch and they can run but they can't hide.

Moreover, the bulk of the main stream media has ignored the F & F story until things begin getting a bit warm for the current administration. When they finally report on the matter, it is interesting to observe the spin they place on it.

Because the main stream media has been so crucial in the election of this administration - they will do most anything - by either act or omission - to assist this regime. That has already been proven.

Bottom feeding wastes of air time - but it was the usual play out of their playbook.

BOfH

10-04-2011, 15:37

About F#$&kin time! Of course Zero and Co. are going to spin it as a GOP attack to deflect from "real" issues

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/04/house-republicans-to-request-special-counsel-to-probe-holder-on-fast-and/

House Republicans Request Special Counsel to Probe Holder on 'Fast and Furious'

EXCLUSIVE: House Republicans are calling for a special counsel to determine whether Attorney General Eric Holder misled Congress during his testimony to the House Judiciary Committee on Operation Fast and Furious, Fox News has learned.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, R-Texas, was sending a letter to President Obama on Tuesday arguing that Holder cannot investigate himself, and requesting the president instruct the Department of Justice to appoint a special counsel.

The question is whether Holder knowingly made false statements of fact under oath during a Judiciary Committee hearing on May 3. At the time, Holder indicated he was not familiar with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives program known as Fast and Furious until about April 2011.

"I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks," Holder testified.

However, newly discovered memos suggest otherwise. For instance, one memo dated July 2010 shows Michael Walther, director of the National Drug Intelligence Center, told Holder that straw buyers in the Fast and Furious operation "are responsible for the purchase of 1,500 firearms that were then supplied to the Mexican drug trafficking cartels."

Other documents also indicate that Holder began receiving weekly briefings on the program from the National Drug Intelligence Center "beginning, at the latest, on July 5, 2010," Smith wrote.

"These updates mentioned, not only the name of the operation, but also specific details about guns being trafficked to Mexico," Smith wrote in the letter to Obama.

"Allegations that senior Justice Department officials may have intentionally misled members of Congress are extremely troubling and must be addressed by an independent and objective special counsel. I urge you to appoint a special counsel who will investigate these allegations as soon as possible," Smith wrote.

House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member John Conyers, D-Mich., said he had not been informed of the reqeest before it was sent to the president.

This is the third time in two years the Judiciary Committee chairman has called for a special counsel. In October 2009, Smith asks for a special counsel to investigate the now defunct community organizing group ACORN. In July 2010, Smith asked the Obama administration for a special counsel to investigate voter intimidation charges against the New Black Panther Party.

In response to the release of the memos, a Justice Department official said that the attorney general "has consistently said he became aware of the questionable tactics in early 2011 when ATF agents first raised them publicly, and then promptly asked the (inspector general) to investigate the matter."

The official added that in March 2011, Holder testified to a Senate Appropriations subcommittee of that development, and regularly receives hundreds of pages, none of which contained information on potential problems with Fast and Furious.

"The weekly reports (100 + pages) are provided to the office of the AG and (deputy attorney general) each week from approximately 24 offices and components. These are routine reports that provide general overviews and status updates on issues, policies, cases and investigations from offices and components across the country. None of these reports referenced the controversial tactics of that allowed guns to cross the border," the official said.

"(House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell) Issa of all people, should be familiar with the difference between knowing about an investigation and being aware of questionable tactics employed in that investigation since documents provided to his committee show he was given a briefing that included the fast and furious operation in 2010 – a year before the controversy emerged," the official continued.

Issa, R-Calif., told Fox News on Tuesday that Holder saying he didn't understand the question rather than he didn't know of the program is not a successful defense to perjury.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, added that months before Holder testified -- on Jan. 31 -- he came to Grassley's office, where Grassley gave him a letter detailing the investigation of Fast and Furious.

"If he read my letter, he knew on January 31," Grassley told Fox News. "He probably actually knew about it way back in the middle of last year or earlier.

Grassley said since he's not a lawyer he's not going to make a judgment on whether Holder committed perjury.

"But I can tell you this. They're doing everything they can, in a fast and furious way, to cover up all the evidence or stonewalling us. But here's the issue, if he didn't perjure himself and didn't know about it, the best way that they can help us, Congressman Issa and me, is to just issue all the documents that we ask for and those documents will prove one way or the other right or wrong."

Smith said he was not suggesting that Holder committed perjury, per se.

"I am suggesting there is a conflict between what the attorney general told us and what these documents that were just released show us. ... We need to find out what's behind that ... and give the attorney general the opportunity to tell the truth," Smith told Fox News.

Fox News' Chad Pergram contributed to this report.

Badger52

10-06-2011, 06:45

$.02, the timing of their use of the in-vogue "reset button" plea translates to "please let us look like we're cleaning our house so this can all go away."

LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/05/new-atf-head-weve-got-to-hit-reset-on-investigative-moves-in-wake-fast-and/)

New ATF Head: ‘We’ve Got to Hit Reset’ on Investigative Moves in Wake of Fast and Furious
By Mike Levine

Published October 05, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Hoping to chart a new path forward in the wake of the controversial "Fast and Furious" investigation, the newly assigned head of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Wednesday that "everything is under review" in the way of investigative practices and processes at the agency.

“We've got to hit the reset button and move forward," acting director B. Todd Jones said.

The furor over "Operation Fast and Furious" focuses on tactics used by ATF investigators in Arizona to target major gun-runners. Launched in late 2009, the investigation planned to follow gun purchasers in hopes that suspects would lead them to the heads of Mexican cartels. But high-powered weapons tied to the investigation ended up at crime scenes in Mexico and the United States, including the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry late last year.

On Wednesday, Jones said there is now a "heightened awareness" throughout ATF over "the appropriateness" of such techniques.

"These have been some difficult times for everyone at ATF because of a case in a division that is getting a lot of attention," Jones told reporters at ATF headquarters in Washington. "But there is much good work being done around the country by the 25 field divisions that constitute ATF.”

The new ATF head announced nearly a dozen personnel changes within ATF leadership, including two associated with "Fast and Furious." Mark Chait, a top-ranking official in ATF's Office of Field Operations since May 2009, will become the head of the ATF's Baltimore field office. William Hoover, ATF's deputy director since 2009 whom Jones called "the point" on "Fast and Furious," will become head of the ATF's Washington field office.

Sen. Chuck Grassley issued a statement regarding the restructuring saying, "The reassignments are positive, especially in the case of Tom Brandon who I hope can help lead this agency out of its troubles. But, I caution that rearranging the chairs on the deck, won’t make Fast and Furious go away."

Grassley also questioned the timing of the announcement, suggesting it was an effort by the Justice Department to spin developments regarding statements made by Attorney General Holder to the House Judiciary Committee and stated that many questions remain unanswered.

Jones said the changes "reflect a certain level of accountability," adding that people in leadership positions "understand" they sometimes get credit for things they may not be responsible for, and sometimes they get blamed for things they may not be responsible for.

Nevertheless, Jones said ATF still faces legal obstacles in its effort to stop "straw purchasers," those who legally purchase guns for the purpose of then trafficking them to others.

"There are vulnerabilities in the law that make it challenging for us sometimes to do more fulsome investigations," said Jones, who’s doing double-duty as U.S. Attorney in Minnesota.

In one instance during "Operation Fast and Furious," a suspected gun-runner bought 20 AK-47 type rifles, but he "maintained" to law enforcement the weapons "belonged to him," according to a recent filing to Congress by Bill Newell, the head of the Phoenix ATF office at the time. The suspect "was not prohibited by law from purchasing or possessing the firearms," so ATF agents felt they did not have "lawful authority to seize the weapons," according to Newell.

Of nearly 2,000 weapons sold to suspected straw purchasers over several months, the ATF was notified ahead of time to monitor the purchase of only about 300 firearms, Newell said. In fact, of the 2,000 weapons sold to suspects, as many as 400 of them were sold before "Fast and Furious" ever launched. Still, Newell acknowledged ATF "was able to proactively and lawfully" seize only a fifth of the nearly 300 weapons under ATF surveillance.

Many Mexican officials have expressed dismay over the investigation, particularly for allegedly being left in the dark about it. Asked how it all has affected U.S. law enforcement's relationships with their Mexican counterparts, Jones said that is "something we're going to have to rebuild," and, "We know we have work to do."

He said U.S. attorneys along the Southwest border have already met with Mexican officials to help repair any damage.

"Operation Fast and Furious" was not the only investigation during which ATF's Phoenix office let guns allegedly "walk." From 2006 to about the end of 2007, under the Bush administration, "Operation Wide Receiver" investigators "permitted guns to be transferred to suspected gun traffickers and had not interdicted them," according to a current Justice Department official.

The investigation was initiated after ATF "received information about a suspicious purchase of firearms," the official said. But the controversial tactics were only discovered in 2009 after prosecutors began reviewing the case for possible prosecution, resulting in two sets of indictments, according to the official.

On Wednesday, Jones said he is not aware of any other ATF investigations involving alleged "gun walking." He noted he's only been on the job for about 30 days, but he said he "would be surprised" if there were any other cases.

The House Oversight Committee, led by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif, has launched an investigation into "Operation Fast and Furious," and Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee are now calling for a special counsel to investigate statements by Attorney General Eric Holder. A Justice Department spokeswoman insisted Holder has been "consistent and truthful."

Meanwhile, the Justice Department's internal watchdog, the Office of the Inspector General -- or OIG -- has also launched an investigation into the matter.

While announcing the latest personnel changes Wednesday, the ATF said in a statement that "additional staff reassignments may be warranted at the conclusion of the OIG's report."

Pete

10-06-2011, 07:06

One of two things is very clear.......

1. Holder is quilty as Shit of perjury to congress.

or

2. He is too stupid to hold the position he does.

JJ_BPK

10-06-2011, 08:00

One of two things is very clear.......

1. Holder is quilty as Shit of perjury to congress.

or

2. He is too stupid to hold the position he does.

3. All of the above...

:mad:

Team Sergeant

10-06-2011, 10:29

"Front-runner for most corrupt AG in U.S. history
claims he didn't know what he knew when he knew it."

Fast, Furious and false

By Boston Herald Editorial Staff | Wednesday, October 5, 2011

So what did Attorney General Eric Holder know about the controversial Fast and Furious operation that put thousands of U.S. guns in the hands of Mexican drug lords and when did he know it?

Holder told the Judiciary Committee May 3, “I’m not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.”

But in a newly discovered July 2010 memo Michael Walther, director of the National Drug Intelligence Center, told Holder that straw buyers in the Fast and Furious operation “are responsible for the purchase of 1,500 firearms that were then supplied to the Mexican drug trafficking cartels.”

Congressional investigators believe Holder began receiving weekly briefings on the program from that day on. The program didn’t become a matter of public knowledge until a Border Patrol agent was killed and two of the U.S.-supplied guns were found at the scene. A spokesperson for the Justice Department now insists that Holder simply misunderstood the committee’s question, which seems lame in the extreme.

There is, of course, an easy way to clear things up, and that’s for Holder to come before the committee again and correct the record, to disclose at what point he realized that guns were “walking” across the border never to be seen again, and why this idiotic effort wasn’t halted sooner.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view.bg?articleid=1371056

Paslode

10-06-2011, 17:58

Mike at Sipsey Street has a new direction in the F&F scandel.......the State Department.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/10/sipsey-street-exclusive-in-at-beginning.html

Streck-Fu

10-12-2011, 09:46

Subpena issued: LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/12/issa-issues-subpoena-to-holder-in-fast-and-furious-investigation/)

Issa Issues Subpoena to Holder in Fast and Furious Investigation

Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, sent a subpoena Wednesday to Attorney General Eric Holder as part of his investigation into the gun trafficking operation known as "Fast and Furious."

"Top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Holder, know more about Operation Fast and Furious than they have publicly acknowledged," the California Republican said in a statement. "The documents this subpoena demands will provide answers to questions that Justice officials have tried to avoid since this investigation began eight months ago. It's time we know the whole truth."

The subpoena seeks, among other things, all communications regarding the operation from 16 top Justice officials, including Holder, his chief of staff, Gary Grindler, and the head of the department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, as well as correspondence on specific dates to and from the former head of the ATF's Phoenix field division, William Newell.

It also asks for all documents and communications referring or relating to the murder of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, including any correspondence outlining the details of Zapata's mission at the time he was murdered.

Congressional investigators are demanding information regarding the investigation into the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. Two guns found at Terry's crime scene were linked to the failed operation that allowed more than 2,000 weapons to "walk."

The subpoena also asks for correspondence that Justice Department officials had with the White House about the gun trafficking operation, as well as what information was shared by Justice officials in Mexico.

This second subpoena follows the first one issued in March to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Asked about the development Tuesday, Holder said his department "will undoubtedly comply with them," noting that Justice officials have already sent "thousands of pages of documents up to the Hill."

But Holder wouldn't answer whether he or anyone else at the department knew about the controversial tactics.

Holder addressed the matter at the end of a press conference about an alleged Iran-tied terror plot foiled by U.S. investigators. "What I want the American people to understand is that in complying with those subpoenas and dealing with that inquiry, that will not detract us from the important business that we have here to do at the Justice Department, including matters like the one that we have announced today," Holder said.

The new subpoena follows a week of back and forth between congressional investigators and Justice Department officials of "who knew what, when." Under scrutiny was Holder's testimony from May 3 when he told Issa that he "probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."

Fox News obtained documents addressed to Holder as early as nine months before that, which described the concept of Fast and Furious.

In addition to the congressional investigation being led by Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, R-Texas, is calling for a special counsel to look into the matter.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/12/issa-issues-subpoena-to-holder-in-fast-and-furious-investigation/#ixzz1aaCjOOX5

rdret1

10-12-2011, 09:56

This thing is going to be drug out more than Whitewater was. They will release only as much as they think they can get away with for the foreseeable future.

Ret10Echo

10-20-2011, 04:57

So the Senate has to legislate this? Transferring guns to drug cartels is bad?

Really???

Senate votes to end DoJ's 'Fast and Furious' gun program

By ANDREW TAYLOR
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate voted Tuesday to effectively block the Justice Department from undertaking gun-smuggling probes like the flawed "Operation Fast and Furious" aimed at breaking up networks running guns to Mexican drug cartels but that lost track of hundreds of the weapons, some of which were used to commit crimes in Mexico and the United States.

The 99-0 vote would block the government from transferring guns to drug cartels unless federal agents "continuously monitor or control" the weapons. The amendment's sponsor, Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, called the vote "just the first step towards ensuring that such a foolish operation can never be repeated by our own law enforcement."

The Justice Department has already stopped the program.

Full story here (http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=489&sid=2597964)

Badger52

10-20-2011, 05:47

So the Senate has to legislate this? Transferring guns to drug cartels is bad?

Really???I get the impression they were defunding a budget line-item, which is their equivalent of a spanking, but also their way of sending a message. 99-0 ? The current pretenders to Despot of the Year should notice their boss' coat-tails getting shorter...

tonyz

10-27-2011, 08:30

Issa, Grassley Press for Additional Information on Death of ICE Agent Zapata, Tactics Used in Texas

WASHINGTON – Congressman Darrell Issa and Senator Chuck Grassley are pressing for additional information into the murder of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata and the tactics used while conducting surveillance on known straw purchasers, raising concerns similar to policies of Operation Fast and Furious out of the Phoenix office.

The letter explains the inconsistent statements by the Justice Department regarding Otilio Osorio, his brother Ranferi Osorio, and Kelvin Morrison. The three straw purchasers were known to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF, long before one of the guns purchased by the brothers was linked to the murder of Agent Zapata.

To make matters worse, Grassley and Issa wrote in their letter that documents indicate the ATF failed for more than three months to create a Report of Investigation on the November 9 transfer of firearms between the brothers and Morrison and a confidential informant, witnessed by ATF agents. The report was finally written on February 25, 2011—the same day the ATF received the report tracing the Zapata murder weapon back to the purchase by Otilio Osorio.

Grassley and Issa said that documenting investigative steps three months after the fact and only after a trace returned to the murder of a federal agent raises red flags about the nature of ATF’s investigation.

Here is a copy of the text of today’s letter from Grassley and Issa, and here is a signed copy of the letter. Also, click here to read Grassley’s March 4, 2011 letter and here to read the March 28, 2011 letter. Here is a copy of the Justice Department’s latest response.

10/26/11 press release

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1489:issa-grassley-press-for-additional-information-on-death-of-ice-agent-zapata-tactics-used-in-texas&catid=22:releasesstatements

10/25/11 letter

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Letters/2011-10-25_DEI__Grassley_to_Holder-DOJ_-_Zapata_ATF_Fast_and_Furious_Osorio_Brothers_due_1 1-8.pdf

03/04/11 letter

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/Judiciary-ATF-03-04-11-CEG-letter-to-ATF-Zapata-gun-purchasers-2.pdf

03/28/11 letter

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/Judiciary-ATF-03-28-11-Follow-up-letter-to-Melson-Zapata-gun-purchasers-3.pdf

10/11/11 DOJ response

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/judiciary/upload/ATF-10-11-11-DOJ-Response-to-CEG-03-28-11-letter-on-Zapata.pdf

Badger52

10-27-2011, 09:54

It is time to get past the 1m40s bites during the evening execsum in TV-land followed by 7m30s of commercials. Someone needs to, ala GlennBeckish Gantt chart if needed, spend an hour on a major network telling the American people about these thugs.

Iraqgunz

10-27-2011, 10:10

rdret1

10-27-2011, 12:43

Can someone explain to me how the BATFE can get away with requiring dealers in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and Arizona to report multiple long gun sales. It is my understanding that the mutliple handguns things is from the 1968 Gun Control Act- which was approved by Congress.

What protections are in place to ensure that the BATFE is not going to abuse the information? Where is the money coming from for this mandate?

As with most events related to this abortion, the ATF and DOJ are walking the jagged edge of legality IMO. Holder is using every trick he can to get around existing law, congress, and the constitution. There are many groups asking the same question.

tonyz

10-27-2011, 18:13

More video testimony from F&F - Janet Napolitano - the saga continues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJlcsqR66Vo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAs1va7Nug&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Iv76RrcSjM&feature=relmfu

Paslode

10-29-2011, 13:16

An interesting article from PJM with some timelines and other information.

It starts with:

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/smoking-gun-most-gunwalker-guns-targets-of-ban-efforts-but-not-wanted-by-cartels/?singlepage=true#

tonyz

10-30-2011, 12:08

Some links and additional information in the full story at link below. Might be worth a look to see if Holder continues with the Sergeant Hans Schultz defense.

Eric Holder to testify on Fast and Furious – December 8th

CBS News By Sharyl Attkisson
October 28, 2011 2:05

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20127178-10391695/atf-gunwalker-update-eric-holder-to-testify-on-fast-and-furious/

Excerpt:

CBS News has learned Attorney General Eric Holder has agreed to appear before the House Judiciary Committee regarding "Fast and Furious." The hearing will take place Dec. 8th.

Judiciary Committee member and head of the House Oversight Committee Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) had requested that Holder appear, in part to dig deeper into when-he-knew-what about ATF's so-called "gunwalking" operation Fast and Furious.
In May, Holder testified that he only first heard about Fast and Furious a few weeks before. However, as CBS News reported, documents and memos indicate he had been sent multiple briefings mentioning Fast and Furious in 2010.

Holder later explained in a letter to Congress that he didn't read those memos, and that in any event, nobody at the Justice Department who knew of Fast and Furious was aware of the specific "gunwalking" tactics used.

tonyz

11-08-2011, 09:15

Badger52

11-08-2011, 09:23

Holder being questioned live today - the tap dance continues.

“Oversight of the U.S. Department of Justice”

Senate Judiciary Committee
Full Committee
DATE: November 8, 2011
TIME: 10:00 AM
ROOM: Dirksen 226

http://judiciary.senate.gov/resources/webcasts/livewebcast.cfmOpening statement for the record at this moment; deploying anti-nausea Rx...

X-lation: "Ultimately, I want Sen. Feinstein to buy me dinner when I throw the Constitution into the Potomac and register-then-confiscate every gun in the country, from every citizen - except all my minions who owe me."
Insert appropriate cliche RE resisting that effort.

Edit: Leahy (retch) applies more deflection going immediately to discussion of anti-terror provisions of a current Def Auth bill pending. (gives chance for STASI chief to look wise)

He is a lying despotic thug.

tonyz

11-08-2011, 09:29

Leahy is obviously carrying the water for the Obama administration in the hearing today.

Badger52

11-08-2011, 09:59

Tony has it right RE Leahy.

1558Z: heading off to puke.

Holder doesn't get it, whether he didn't know, or didn't because his "staff" didn't pass stuff on. He's responsible. Any decent commander knows that it's HIS/HER responsibility to set the tone and provide guidance/intent as to those things which automatically require rising to his awareness, or which may even require him being awakened. (In the Army these are called CCIRs.) So he's both a despot, and incompetent to be in a position requiring the maintenance of an oath. Not without precedent; the world is full of both despots and despots who are in the same moment incompetent to practice their craft.

tonyz

11-08-2011, 10:19

Listening to Feinstein - Holder walks on water.

Listening to Schumer...requires a shower.

Hand

11-08-2011, 10:58

Wow! So in closing Mr Holder - nobody knew nuttin, and youre gonna twy and find those wascally villains right? Fine, thank you, I look forward to working with you to get my state some more money for cops.

Hand

11-08-2011, 11:05

"The uhhh decision we made to uhhh decide not to do anything was ahhhh the right one."

Badger52

11-08-2011, 11:36

Easy on a poker table. When he's comfortable with a softball Q, he's quite articulate (ala Teleprompter in Chief). A pointed question returning to Gunwalker redlines his eyeblink tachometer.

Hand

11-08-2011, 12:47

Easy on a poker table. When he's comfortable with a softball Q, he's quite articulate (ala Teleprompter in Chief). A pointed question returning to Gunwalker redlines his eyeblink tachometer.

Even in his responses, he really does nothing but reword the question/statement.
He also does a direct dive down to the left with his face when he's thinking of how to reword his previous statements so that he doesn't look like such a guilty b@stard.

Stargazer

11-15-2011, 15:29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO6dNBESTK8&feature=youtu.be

Congressman Allen West calls for Eric Holder to resign. I support him in this endeavor. It is about time, individuals within this administration are held accountable for actions that have occurred under their watch.

tonyz

11-15-2011, 16:07

Paslode

11-27-2011, 09:57

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/11/12/20111112atf-gun-probe-operation-fast-and-furious-fall.html

Many have suggested that the ATF should be abolished.

Codrea and Vanderboegh say that last option would be a mistake because firearms enforcement might become the province of a larger, more powerful agency such as the FBI -- difficult to attack politically.

"I very much prefer the devil that I know in rehab to the devil that I don't know," Vanderbeogh says.

Dobyns says the ATF is filled with good agents, and he's hoping the new acting director, B. Todd Jones, will clean house by removing all of the top management.

Cefalu sees major reforms. "Change is coming," he wrote in a recent blog. "THAT IS EXACTLY what we have been asking for. ... Take a deep breath and let's see where they are going to take our bureau."

Harry L. Wilson, director of Policy and Opinion Research at Roanoke College, says political motivations in a scandal often generate unsupported conspiracy theories and unwanted results.

"It was botched incredibly badly," he says of Fast and Furious. "But I can't imagine anybody was intentionally putting guns into Mexico as a ploy to regulate firearms in the U.S. To me, that is just beyond paranoia. ... The issues are always more complicated than what they appear to be, and than how partisans on both sides make them out to be."

Wilson, who wrote the book, "Guns, Gun Control and Elections: The Politics and Policy of Firearms," says attempts at secrecy undoubtedly conflated the controversy over Fast and Furious.

"Cover-ups often are worse than what you were trying to cover up, whether it's Watergate or 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman,' " he said. "You can never separate out political motives. If you look at Watergate, were Democrats after Richard Nixon? Yeah, but there was a reason to be after him. It's the perfect scenario: Go after the bad guy and do yourself good at the same time.

"At the end of all this, where does it stop? Nobody knows."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/11/12/20111112atf-gun-probe-operation-fast-and-furious-fall.html#ixzz1evB4aQAJ

A conspiracy.........I don't know, but Holders statement (below) complaining about a lack of effective tools and a need to restrict multiple rifle purchases is absolute horse hockey and lead to conspiracy. Maybe Holder and Jan the Man ought to consider enforcing the Laws on the books and assist States trying to enforce the Laws instead of suing them.

In a letter to Congress last month complaining about "political posturing," Holder said authorities are "severely impaired by a lack of effective law enforcement tools." The penalty for straw purchases is so weak, he argued, that trafficking is not deterred and agents have no leverage to flip suspects into informers. Holder also lamented the lack of laws restricting multiple rifle purchases.

Pete

11-27-2011, 10:09

Well, at least they're not going after Chore Boy Scrub Pads yet.

Oh, wait...............

greenberetTFS

11-27-2011, 14:05

Very well said Congressman West.

:lifter

:D ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

steel71

11-28-2011, 00:11

Nothing much will happen, they'll throw a couple agents under the bus, while the real criminals get away. The military does the same, throw a couple of low raking enlisted or low grade officers under the bus, and cover for the higher ups. It's the SOS, just another day in the perverted/ homo empire.

Badger52

11-28-2011, 11:09

Harry L. Wilson, director of Policy and Opinion Research at Roanoke College, says political motivations in a scandal often generate unsupported conspiracy theories and unwanted results.

"It was botched incredibly badly," he says of Fast and Furious. "But I can't imagine anybody was intentionally putting guns into Mexico as a ploy to regulate firearms in the U.S. To me, that is just beyond paranoia. ...
Horsehockey, and a failure of the imagination.

Well, at least they're not going after Chore Boy Scrub Pads yet.

Oh, wait...............I just finished firelapping my last .45 Colt Ruger & getting the cylinder just the way I want; so I should hide the tools?

dr. mabuse

11-28-2011, 21:39

Even in his responses, he really does nothing but reword the question/statement.
He also does a direct dive down to the left with his face when he's thinking of how to reword his previous statements so that he doesn't look like such a guilty b@stard.

And his mouth tightens, like Obama whistling his "c" and "s" when he's on the spot.

The glance to the left could be an incomplete tell fragment of a deception cluster depending on if he is left handed or right handed. ;)

tonyz

11-28-2011, 21:58

Holder has a 'tell' alright - like his boss - when he is being deceptive his lips are moving.

N.B. the lack of pink font.

Badger52

11-30-2011, 14:09

'Fast and Furious' Whistleblowers Struggle Six Months After Testifying Against ATF Program

By William Lajeunesse
Published November 30, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Some selected excerpts; the full story at Fox is HERE. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/30/fast-and-furious-whistleblowers-struggle-six-months-after-testifying-against/)

* The administration denied it at the time and questioned the agents' integrity. The men were nervous and scared. They said they feared for their careers, their reputation and their families.

* And while President Obama has said the operation was a mistake and that "people who screwed up will be held accountable," the record so far does not bear that out. Those in charge of the botched operation have been reassigned or promoted, their pensions intact. But many of those who blew the whistle face isolation, retaliation and transfer.

* Here's what has happened to the managers of the operation:

-- Acting ATF Chief Ken Melson, who oversaw the operation, is now an adviser in the Office of Legal Affairs. He remains in ATF's Washington, D.C., headquarters.

-- Acting Deputy Director Billy Hoover, who knew his agency was walking guns and demanded an "exit strategy" just five months into the program, is now the special agent in charge of the D.C. office. He, too, did not have to relocate.

-- Deputy Director for Field Operations William McMahon received detailed briefings about the illegal operation and later admitted he shares "responsibility for mistakes that were made.” Yet, he also stays in D.C., ironically as the [B]No. 2 man at the ATF's Office of Internal Affairs.

* -- Group Supervisor David Voth managed Fast and Furious on a day-to-day basis and repeatedly stopped field agents from interdicting weapons headed to the border, according to congressional testimony. ATF boosted Voth to chief of the ATF Tobacco Division, where he now supervises more employees in Washington than he ever did in Phoenix.

* Special Agent Jay Dobyns, who is suing the agency for breach of contract, is skeptical.

"These guys are protected. They're insulated. They're all part of a club," Dobyns said, alleging that the ATF has a history of retaliating against its own who speak up.

* Dodson continued to challenge Voth, saying the operation was killing people in Mexico and suggested it was only a matter of time before a "border agent or sheriff's deputy" would be killed by one of the guns they let go.

"If you're going to make an omelet, you've got to scramble some eggs," Voth replied, according to a congressional report.
---------------
The tale of what has happened at the field-agent level...? another story further down in the article. (and I'm no ATF fan to begin with)

:mad:

steel71

11-30-2011, 14:36

Obama Admin Seals Records of Murdered Border Patrol Agent Implicated in Fast and Furious

And to think that Attorney General Eric Holder is getting testy about congressional calls for his resignation. After all, the Justice Department has nothing to hide, right?:

The Obama Administration has abruptly sealed court records containing alarming details of how Mexican drug smugglers murdered a U.S. Border patrol agent with a gun connected to a failed federal experiment that allowed firearms to be smuggled into Mexico.

This means information will now be kept from the public as well as the media. Could this be a cover-up on the part of the “most transparent” administration in history? After all, the rifle used to kill the federal agent (Brian Terry) last December in Arizona’s Peck Canyon was part of the now infamous Operation Fast and Furious. Conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), the disastrous scheme allowed guns to be smuggled into Mexico so they could eventually be traced to drug cartels.

Link via Judicial Watch. The murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent is related to the Justice Department willingly turning over thousands of guns to Mexican criminal gangs, and Obama administration is hiding information about his death from the public. Amazing.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-admin-seals-records-murdered-border-patrol-agent-implicated-fast-and-furious_610783.html

Paslode

12-07-2011, 17:46

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

More Fast and Furious coverage:
Memos contradict Holder on Fast and Furious
Agent: I was ordered to let guns "walk" into Mexico
Gunwalking scandal uncovered at ATF

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

The Gun Dealers' Quandary

Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.

Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

Read the email

In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

Read the email

ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."

Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

"It's like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back," says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. "It's a circular way of thinking."

The Justice Department and ATF declined to comment. ATF officials mentioned in this report did not respond to requests from CBS News to speak with them.

The "Demand Letter 3" Debate

The two sides in the gun debate have long clashed over whether gun dealers should have to report multiple rifle sales. On one side, ATF officials argue that a large number of semi-automatic, high-caliber rifles from the U.S. are being used by violent cartels in Mexico. They believe more reporting requirements would help ATF crack down. On the other side, gun rights advocates say that's unconstitutional, and would not make a difference in Mexican cartel crimes.

Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic, greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable magazine.

On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially by drug gangs."

Reaction

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us.

"In light of the evidence, the Justice Department's refusal to answer questions about the role Operation Fast and Furious was supposed to play in advancing new firearms regulations is simply unacceptable," Rep. Issa told CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

tonyz

12-08-2011, 08:52

Holder testifying live on Fast and Furious

Thursday, December 8, 2011

9:30 a.m.
2141 Rayburn
Full Committee

Hearing on: Oversight Hearing on the United States Department of Justice
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calweek.html

and televised live on C-SPAN3

9:30 a.m. Full Committee
12/8/2011 Hearing on: Oversight Hearing on the United States Department of Justice

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/

Hand

12-08-2011, 11:35

Why is he blathering on and on about how 'exceptional' his response to the subpoena was?

tonyz

12-08-2011, 11:40

Why is he blathering on and on about how 'exceptional' his response to the subpoena was?

Self-serving obfuscation – he is suggesting that he and his agency have gone above and beyond in response to requests for production of documents.

Simply stated IMO he is covering his ass.

Streck-Fu

12-08-2011, 13:03

Holder testifies again today: LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/08/holder-suggests-fast-and-furious-guns-will-be-used-in-crimes-for-years-to-come/)

I didn't know anything until it went public.
I never lied.
I stopped it and won't let it happen again.
Congress needs to give us more power.

:middlefinger:

Sarski

12-10-2011, 00:10

Hypothetical spin here:

Lets say for a moment that none of this came to light. Fast and Furious was a success in the eyes of all those who designed and implemented it, and a change to the 2nd Amendment was being brought forth (which supposedly was an intended result of the weapons slipping unknowingly into cartels hands).

Then, once that change is in place it would set precedence to change other Amendments?

What I'd like to know is, would this be the easiest way to attack or change the US Constitution (not just the 2nd Amendment, but other parts as well)? Or is this already happening and these kinds of approaches and tactics are not needed to make such changes?

The Reaper

12-10-2011, 09:40

Actually, the credit for exposing this little scheme belongs to the good agents at BATFE who are being punished for their honesty, in violation of the whistleblower protection laws.

It does make me feel better to know that there are some people who still understand the concept of right and wrong who will stand up at the appropriate time to speak truth to power, regardless of the consequences.

I do not count President Obama or AG Holder among them.

TR

tom kelly

12-11-2011, 08:55

I agree with TR, However it was not an elected politican nor a cabinet appointee who exposed this UNLAWFUL foolhardy scheme, They are trying to cover it up or blow it off as some minor set-back in their mind what was a good operation to catch bad guys. E H is the one more imbecil than we counted on. What I want to know is when it became legal and moral to enforce the law by breaking the law. I hope this does not go away without E H being held accountable, The POTUS should fire him or better have him arrested as an accessory for the murder of the Border Patrol Agent. I do not see this happening because BHO has no chacter or backbone to do the RIGHT thing....Regard's, TK

Ret10Echo

12-11-2011, 15:15

What I want to know is when it became legal and moral to enforce the law by breaking the law.

As the bumper sticker states: "Legalize the Constitution"

:munchin

MR2

12-12-2011, 02:43

Coming up next: Operation Foolish Fusion where the DOJ gives nuclear weapons to terrorists in order to track them...

tonyz

12-16-2011, 08:42

Officials cover up culpability for gun smuggling and murder

Washington Times - online

KUHNER: Obama’s Watergate

Thursday, December 15, 2011

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/15/obamas-watergate-758295296/

Excerpts:

A year ago this week, U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered. He died protecting his country from brutal Mexican gangsters. Two AK-47 assault rifles were found at his death site. We now know the horrifying truth: Agent Terry was killed by weapons that were part of an illegal Obama administration operation to smuggle arms to the dangerous drug cartels. He was a victim of his own government. This is not only a major scandal; it is a high crime that potentially reaches all the way to the White House, implicating senior officials. It is President Obama’s Watergate.

Mr. Holder and his aides have given misleading, false and contradictory testimony on Capitol Hill. Perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power - these are high crimes and misdemeanors. Mr. Holder should be impeached. Like most liberals, he is playing the victim card, claiming Mr. Issa is a modern-day Joseph McCarthy conducting a judicial witch hunt. Regardless of this petty smear, Mr. Holder must be held responsible and accountable - not only for the botched operation, but for his flagrant attempts to deflect blame from the administration.

Mr. Holder is a shameless careerist and a ruthless Beltway operative. For years, his out-of-control Justice Department has violated the fundamental principle of our democracy, the rule of law. He has refused to prosecute members of the New Black Panthers for blatant voter intimidation that took place in the 2008 election. Career Justice lawyers have confessed publicly that Mr. Holder will not pursue cases in which the perpetrators are black and the victims white. States such as Arizona and Alabama are being sued for simply attempting to enforce federal immigration laws. Mr. Holder also opposes voter identification cards, thereby enabling fraud and vote-stealing at the ballot box. What else can we expect from one who, during the Clinton administration, helped pardon notorious tax cheat Marc Rich and Puerto Rican terrorists?

Mr. Holder clearly knew about Fast and Furious and did nothing to stop it. This is because the administration wanted to use the excuse of increased violence on the border and weapons-smuggling into Mexico to justify tighter gun-control legislation. Mr. Holder is fighting ferociously to prevent important internal Justice documents from falling into the hands of congressional investigators. If the full nature of his involvement is discovered, the Obama presidency will be in peril.

Fast and Furious is even worse than Watergate for one simple reason: No one died because of President Nixon’s political dirty tricks and abuse of government power. But Brian Terry is dead; and there are still 1,500 missing guns threatening still more lives.

What did Mr. Obama know? Massive gun-smuggling by the U.S. government into a foreign country does not happen without the explicit knowledge and approval of leading administration officials. It’s too big, too risky and too costly. Mr. Holder may not be protecting just himself and his cronies. Is he protecting the president?

Jeffrey T. Kuhner is a columnist at The Washington Times and president of the Edmund Burke Institute.