View Full Version : British sniper shoots dead two Taliban fighters... from more than 1.5 miles away
BrainStorm
05-02-2010, 12:40
British sniper shoots dead two Taliban fighters... from more than 1.5 miles away (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270414/British-sniper-sets-new-sharpshooting-record-1-54-mile-double-Taliban-kill.html)
A British Army sniper has earned a place in military history by killing two Taliban machine gunners from more than a mile and a half away.
Craig Harrison's record-breaking sharpshooting felled the insurgents with consecutive bullets - even though they were 3,200ft beyond the effective range of his rifle.
The Household Cavalry veteran's kills from a distance of 8,120ft eclipsed the previous sniper record by 150ft.
<snip>
greenberetTFS
05-02-2010, 13:27
British sniper shoots dead two Taliban fighters... from more than 1.5 miles away (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270414/British-sniper-sets-new-sharpshooting-record-1-54-mile-double-Taliban-kill.html)
I'm really interested on how our (forum) snipers address this one..........:cool:
Big Teddy :munchin
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/support-weapons/1459.aspx
Peregrino
05-02-2010, 15:49
.338 Lapua Magnum IIRC. The Canadians did theirs with a .50 BMG McMillan. The Rifle Gods smiled on him (or frowned on the Taliban, whichever you prefer). :D
BrainStorm
05-02-2010, 16:16
.338 Lapua Magnum IIRC. The Canadians did theirs with a .50 BMG McMillan. The Rifle Gods smiled on him (or frowned on the Taliban, whichever you prefer). :D
'Conditions were perfect, no wind, mild weather, clear visibility.
It would seem they were.
Utah Bob
05-02-2010, 18:05
Is that American miles or metric miles?:cool:
Could one of the LOONG barrel guys please educate this FOG.
I found this chunk of ballistic table for the 338 Lapua 250 Grain Black Hills ammo, that implies a drop of 3368 inch(280 ft) at 7500 ft (2500 yds).
http://www.vandykerifles.com/338blue.htm
Do the Brits use 6x6 blocks under the rear scope mount??
How does one hold over by a football field??
Inquiring minds want to know???
This is in no way a call out on the Brit Sniper, I just can't fathom the geometry.
longrange1947
05-02-2010, 20:09
The 338 Lapua has a max effective, under ideal conditions, of about 1200 meters, they are claiming 1500 meters in the article but their own doctrine claims harassing at 1500.
At the range of that target, a minute of angle equals about 29 inches. In all of the previous shots that I have read about, the sniper admits to aiming at a group or area target and hitting a point target after firing numerous rounds. I find this shot incredulous. To fire three shots and get three hits is beyond all wild expectations.
I have shot at targets at 2000+ meters and a one mph wind will blow you off the target at those ranges. His target was at about 2475 meters. I respect the .338 but not that much. Even the over touted Chey Tec shows groups bigger than that at their "long ranges".
ON the trig, you are right, I doubt that he could see the target at that range. There is not enough elevation in the scope to fire at that range, and if he was using all the elevation AND a Horus reticle, he would have a problem as the scope would have to be down powered to get that low in the Horus reticle.
Not calling him out, just suspect a bad range estimation on the final target range. These things snowball, especially when you have a former colonist shooting better then the Queen's own. Can't have that what. :munchin :D
My thoughts on the matter.
BrainStorm
05-02-2010, 20:41
At the range of that target, a minute of angle equals about 29 inches.
At 8,120 ft, 1 MOA = 28.34" to be precise. :lifter
craigepo
05-02-2010, 21:02
What about shooting downhill?
Interesting also, at that range, the bullet velocity and energy is less than a .22 at 100 yards. http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/22_longrifle_hivel.html
Peregrino
05-02-2010, 21:22
I just want one of those S&B scopes. Nothing I own (or could ever afford to own) would allow me to distinguish a threat at that distance; let alone hit it. Personal preference at that range - give me a spotting scope to see with and a 60mm mortar to "interdict" with and I'll be a happy camper.
Dozer523
05-02-2010, 21:53
. . . the sniper admits to aiming at a group or area target and hitting a point target after firing numerous rounds. I find this shot incredulous. To fire three shots and get three hits is beyond all wild expectations.
Here is what I find incredulous -- that there are people in this world so stupid that they STAND STILL while people near them are exploding.
Dragbag036
05-02-2010, 22:32
When it comes to distance and shooting...the math gets a little hazy for some. I can see having a modern day hero for the Brits...but this is just a bit too inflated. I would like to see that replicated. I understand we will not get all the environmental elements the same, but the distance should be attainable. At any rate, more dead bad guys....good on em'
"Mr. Tom Irwin, a director of Accuracy International, the British manufacturer of the L115A3 rifle, said: “It is still fairly accurate beyond 1,500 m (1,640 yd), but at that distance luck plays as much of a part as anything.”
D
Here is what I find incredulous -- that there are people in this world so stupid that they STAND STILL while people near them are exploding.
:D Maybe they were at a prayer meeting and just took the people exploding as a "sign"...
BrainStorm
05-03-2010, 04:43
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
BrainStorm, you are still new here on the boards. Those who post and read here for a while get to know the other posters.
If you don't know "who is who" maybe you need to read more - and read some of the profiles.
Peregrino
05-03-2010, 06:25
BrainStorm, you are still new here on the boards. Those who post and read here for a while get to know the other posters.
If you don't know "who is who" maybe you need to read more - and read some of the profiles.
What Pete said - Profiles and posts/threads. Knowing something about who you're conversing with will significantly improve your PS.com experience.
longrange1947
05-03-2010, 06:27
What about shooting downhill?
Interesting also, at that range, the bullet velocity and energy is less than a .22 at 100 yards. http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/22_longrifle_hivel.html
Even with downhill, the range is so great that the angle would be minimal. I doubt you would get much over 15 degrees at that range, and even so the bullet still has to fly that distance, the angle woudl just compound the difficulty.
Brainstorm, been doing it for a little while. :munchin :D
Buffalobob
05-03-2010, 06:48
Here is some information concerning a few points that have been raised.
I do not know what ammo he was shooting but if it was the 250 grain bullet then it goes subsonic at about 2K, give or take some depending on barrel length, atmospheric pressure etc. This is not the kiss of death but just a notable fact as some bullet designs survive the transition well and some do not. Sometimes a particular bullet will survive and sometimes a particular rifle and spin will help it stay on course. The old 308 Lake City Match FMJ used in RVN was very accurate beyond transition.
What does it take to kill a person- not much. However energy is a poor indicator of killing ability at extreme range. Momentum, which give equal priority to bullet weight, is a better indicator and then the heavy bullet seems more able to do what needs to be done. Impact energy of the 250 grain bullet at that range would be the same as a .40 pistol point blank so you can take it for what it’s worth.
Optics are always the heart of every long range rifle. People spend all of their money on a custom rifle and then go to Kmart and get a piece of junk glass for it and do not have any money left for a spotting scope. They then wonder why the gun shoots like junk. I do not use S&B so I will not speak to those. I use several Nightforce scopes in either 22X or 32 X top end. The 22 X has 100 MOA of vertical adjustment and the 32 X has about 55 or so. Both of them have reticles with an additional 20 MOA below zero and 10 above. I can see to shoot at a given lethal spot on a target to at least 3K under reasonable light conditions. I can and have used the combination of dial to max elevation and then use the reticle to get more. This is a very common ability and is nothing tricky or difficult if you know your optical equipment. For the shot by the British sniper he would have needed 150 MOA adjustment if working from a 100 yard zero. If he ran out of adjustment and reticle, he can still use the body size to help with holdover in the bottom of the scope and shoot accurately. I have seen that done by my own snipers so it is not impossible to do.
What is not mentioned anywhere is a spotter. Did he have a spotter and a spotting scope and rangefinder? With military laser rangefinders, which have a capability far beyond the commercially available ones you can take the guess work out of ranging at those distances, so what you are working with is wind, ammo MV SD, and barrel accuracy.
I put up a couple of videos a few weeks ago about a shot I took at 2100 yards on an antelope. This was a 338 Lapua necked down to 7mm and improved. It is shooting a special 200 grain bullet with a G1 BC of about 0.8 with a MV of 3350fps. The rifle is built using a competition Nesika action and has a 8-32X 56mm Nightforce on it. What you saw was that I am using a Swiss Wild rangefinder from WWII era for when the civilian Swaro laser will not give me a range. If I had a military laser I would not have missed even shooting over three terrain features in a 5mph wind. The only point of the videos is that the distance and wind can be overcome if you have the right equipment and a spotter is really helpful.
Whether the guy did or did not make three consecutive hits at that range I do not know because I was not standing there. What I do know is that I have seen unbelievable shots made by one of my snipers with a M21 beyond subsonic range.
My credentials are in my profile. You can also check my pulse to find out if I was good enough at it to make it back alive.
In another fora, A Brit said:
The 8.9x70mm L115A3 rifle is fitted with the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII scope.
With a listed price of 3600 USD, I can understand why EVERYONE might not have one..
http://www.schmidtbender.com/PMspecs5_25x56LP.htm
5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP
True 2000-meter capability. Unlike most long-range variables that offer only a 4x magnification multiple, the 5-25 x 56 provides a full 5x and a wider field of view. Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity.
The illuminated reticle has 11 graduated settings offering precise control relative to ambient light. The scope includes Schmidt & Bender's unique color-coded "Double Turn" elevation knob that gives the shooter instant reference to where the elevation is set. The entire 100-minute adjustment range can be covered in just two turns of the knob. The user will never become "lost" within the adjustment range.
The 5–25 x 56 is offered with 56 MOA of 1/4 MOA clicks, or 273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks. Your choice of P3 or P4 reticles. Specifications
1.5mm or 1.5mi - good on 'em!
Richard's $.02 :munchin
longrange1947
05-03-2010, 09:37
That S&B scope is what we have been trying to get the army to use on our weapons. They keep defaulting to Night force though.
I agree, he got two bad guys and that is good.
Question was our thougths on the stated range. I believe it to be a bit over stated. :munchin
Buffalo Bob the S&B scope he used has 26 mils in the scope and 8 mils in the reticle at max magnification or a total of 116 moa, a bit short of the required 150 moa. The missing moa of 34 moa is equivalant of about 964 inches or 80 feet, if my math is working today. At a lower power seeing the target would be a real pain.
Again my thoughts.
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
While your out giving suggestions - I HIGHLY suggest that you go back and make an introduction post like you were instructed to do when you signed up.
Buffalobob
05-03-2010, 10:20
Buffalo Bob the S&B scope he used has 26 mils in the scope and 8 mils in the reticle at max magnification or a total of 116 moa, a bit short of the required 150 moa. The missing moa of 34 moa is equivalant of about 964 inches or 80 feet, if my math is working today. At a lower power seeing the target would be a real pain.
I would not dispute that at all. That is why I use a 32X for extreme ranges. One trades target resolution for vertical adjustment and it is not a real good trade either way.
Being short 34 MOA is a lot to make up and still make a first round hit.
Team Sergeant
05-03-2010, 10:23
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
You made me laugh with the above post, I will not ban you today.
I am a Special Forces trained sniper and you do not get my opinion.
I'd refrain from insulting the Special Forces soldiers on here, that is if it's your desire to stay and ask more silly questions.
You've now got our attention.
Team Sergeant
neecheepure
05-03-2010, 11:10
My hat is off to this fellow and his assumed spotter. In my limited experience, a first round lethal hit at half the range he was shooting at is high-five worthy; although I can't ever remember shooting in "perfect" conditions.
Nice shooting, range be damned.
Dozer523
05-03-2010, 15:14
While your out giving suggestions - I HIGHLY suggest that you go back and make an introduction post like you were instructed to do when you signed up. And he's STILL sporting "Asset"? You made me laugh with the above post, I will not ban you today. . . Team Sergeant
Oh. . . lucky you. The day TS scheduled his annual good mood.
Dragbag036
05-03-2010, 19:12
Question was our thoughts on the stated range. I believe it to be a bit over stated. :munchin
Again my thoughts.
All I can say is....Trunk slammer:lifter
What I am curious about is shooter positioning at that distance. Also, even in a perfect condition there would still have to be some type of hold based on the distance that is stated and that the rifle/scope combo accuracy range. Depending on the time he was in over-watch, his observer would have had the time to create a range card to make the task less stressful.
My creds...I know Longerange1947...osmosis:D
D
Animal8526
05-03-2010, 20:29
pretty fuggin wild to be aiming at a hillside somewhere about 80ft above your target to make a hit. I was shooting at a 1' square steel at 440yds this past weekend... I'm going to have to work at hitting the same target at twice the distance, never mind 4-5X.
BrainStorm
05-03-2010, 21:19
While your out giving suggestions - I HIGHLY suggest that you go back and make an introduction post like you were instructed to do when you signed up.
It was post #1 for me. If it's not there, someone made it disappear.
I'm afraid to say more as TS will pull the trigger and I'll be lost forever.
It was post #1 for me. If it's not there, someone made it disappear.
I'm afraid to say more as TS will pull the trigger and I'll be lost forever.
Your 1st post was not your intro..... :eek:
Your first post was on 03-20-2010, 02:38
I wrote this in another forum under a different name. Hopefully you will find it useful here. I reference Dr. Vail, who we all know as SwatSurgeon here.
Step back and regroup and follow instructions:lifter.
Dozer523
05-04-2010, 06:31
it's a conspiracy (ask Hitler about The Reaper)It was post #1 for me. If it's not there, someone made it disappear.
I'm afraid to say more as TS will pull the trigger and I'll be lost forever. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Lighten up.
It was post #1 for me. If it's not there, someone made it disappear.
BS,
You obviously failed to start at the beginning of this BB or else you would have found this:
Attention...BEFORE POSTING HERE!!
Everyone does not need their own personal thread for introductions.
To keep this manageable (can you imagine trying to sort through 10,000 member intros?), everyone who is planning on posting needs to fill in their profile and post an introduction on the not too deceptively titled thread, Introductions IV BEFORE POSTING ANYWHERE ELSE. It is normally one of the top threads in this forum, but some people are failing to find it.
Again, individual introduction threads are NOT to be started.
Those who do not comply will be identified as FTFSI.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11578
Clicking on the Introductions IV link would have taken you here ( http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22472 ) and you should have followed these directions:
Introduce yourself with your first post. (Click on "Post Reply" below.)
When you come into our house we'd like to know a little about you. This assists in framing a response to post from a Professional Soldiers.com ® member.
You have elected to become the 25m target - now...either you comply or accept the consequences for willful noncompliance. FTFSI is not an SQI to be proud of on this forum.
Welcome to PS.Com...and have a very SF day. ;)
Richard
LongWire
05-04-2010, 07:26
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
WOW.......Really????? :eek:
At 8,120 ft, 1 MOA = 28.34" to be precise. :lifter
You are in rare form, if you are correcting Longrange...........How you dialing that 28.34????
BrainStorm
05-04-2010, 07:36
How you dialing that 28.34????
I teach an MOA method to assess improvement in smooth trigger pull to my CCW students. I published a short note on the rather simple mathematics involved to help their understanding. Until now, no-one has questioned my math. If you want a copy of my note, PM me. If you find an error in my math, I would be grateful if you would let me know, especially since my education was as a mathematician.
ZonieDiver
05-04-2010, 07:50
It is almost 24 hours since these two posts.
While your out giving suggestions - I HIGHLY suggest that you go back and make an introduction post like you were instructed to do when you signed up.
You made me laugh with the above post, I will not ban you today.
I am a Special Forces trained sniper and you do not get my opinion.
I'd refrain from insulting the Special Forces soldiers on here, that is if it's your desire to stay and ask more silly questions.
You've now got our attention.
... almost 11 hours since this post.
It was post #1 for me. If it's not there, someone made it disappear.
I'm afraid to say more as TS will pull the trigger and I'll be lost forever.
... almost 8 hours since this post.
Your 1st post was not your intro.....
Your first post was on 03-20-2010, 02:38
Step back and regroup and follow instructions.
... about 1 hour since this post.
You have elected to become the 25m target - now...either you comply or accept the consequences for willful noncompliance. FTFSI is not an SQI to be proud of on this forum.
Welcome to PS.Com...and have a very SF day.
... and minutes ago he posts THIS.
I teach an MOA method to assess improvement in smooth trigger pull to my CCW students. I published a short note on the rather simple mathematics involved to help their understanding. Until now, no-one has questioned my math. If you want a copy of my note, PM me. If you find an error in my math, I would be grateful if you would let me know, especially since my education was as a mathematician.
Well, speaking of "trigger pull" - IMHO it is time someone pulled it!
BrainStorm
05-04-2010, 08:04
[COLOR="Lime"]BS,
<snip>
Perhaps I misconstrued your salutation. On reflection I see it could either be short for BrainStorm, or it could be calling my post B---S--t. I reacted as if it were the latter. I now hope it was the former.
longrange1947
05-04-2010, 08:12
I teach an MOA method to assess improvement in smooth trigger pull to my CCW students. I published a short note on the rather simple mathematics involved to help their understanding. Until now, no-one has questioned my math. If you want a copy of my note, PM me. If you find an error in my math, I would be grateful if you would let me know, especially since my education was as a mathematician.
No one was questioning your math, only that the difference was not important in sniping as no one can shoot the difference a that range.
Pull your head and ego back in and take a breath. You are attempting to get out of a hole, but you have not yet stopped digging it. :munchin
The Reaper
05-04-2010, 08:29
So much for the gray man approach.:rolleyes:
Would you like a larger shovel?
TR
Perhaps I misconstrued your salutation. On reflection I see it could either be short for BrainStorm, or it could be calling my post B---S--t. I reacted as if it were the latter. I now hope it was the former.
BS,
Correct.
BS! = BullS***
BS = BrainStorm as in my previous posting.
Now...in terms a self-declared mathematical-computer-sniper guru should comprehend...how about reposting that Intro we've discussed? :confused:
And so it goes...
Richard
PS - pink font = sarcasm in these forums.
Justinmd
05-04-2010, 09:40
The above quips from Brainstorm remind me of a movie, "The Big Lebowski". Donny, you are (WAY) out of your element.
I got quite a laugh out of some random guy calling people out on an SF forum.
To be fair, maybe Brainstorm is used to forums where he, being a software engineer and civilian pistol instructor, possesses a relatively high level of knowledge compared to the rest of the inhabitants. ARFcom anyone?
As far as the original topic, even if they added 1k to the shot, it's still a good shot and I'm happy to read it. I've shot a 18"x20" steel plate at 1 mile (1600m) and got 3 hits out of 10. That was after some warmup shots to dial in the elev, haha. In fact, it was so difficult to spot and adjust that we had to send a guy down near the target area to call the impacts. And, as LR said, 1mph off on your wind call = miss. It would be damn tough to do at that range but I can't say it didn't happen and I'm glad to hear about it if it did,
Justin
Utah Bob
05-04-2010, 09:49
Time to take a knee, Brainstorm. Trust me on this.
LongWire
05-04-2010, 11:11
I teach an MOA method to assess improvement in smooth trigger pull to my CCW students. I published a short note on the rather simple mathematics involved to help their understanding. Until now, no-one has questioned my math. If you want a copy of my note, PM me. If you find an error in my math, I would be grateful if you would let me know, especially since my education was as a mathematician.
No one was questioning your math, only that the difference was not important in sniping as no one can shoot the difference a that range.
Pull your head and ego back in and take a breath. You are attempting to get out of a hole, but you have not yet stopped digging it. :munchin
Rick (Longrange to You) had it right. I didn't have my slide rule out on the math. Although MOA to CCW holders seems like it may be a Fascinating topic, I was asking how, in regards to sniping, you would dial that in.
My Name is Scott, I like windy walks, holding LBG's hands from time to time, and sniper rifles. I am no way an expert on the subject and am always willing to learn.
It doesn't take a degree in Rocket Science to figure out that Your Situational Awareness (SA) is seriously lacking. We don't have to introduce ourselves as SME's (Subject Matter Experts) since we pretty much know who knows what around here. You Sir are the one that is an unknown.........Think before you post.
By the way maybe you should read the rules.....this is an Special Forces (SF) website. The guys with Quiet Professionals under their logon name are vetted US Army Special Forces members and Veterans. We do not have to run Bona Fides through You.
Have an SF day, and Thank a Veteran!!!!!!
BrainStorm
05-04-2010, 11:38
how about reposting that Intro we've discussed?
Done!
BrainStorm
05-04-2010, 11:41
Thank a Veteran!!!!!!
I go out of my way to do so.
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
Roguish Lawyer
05-04-2010, 13:02
I go out of my way to do so.
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
How about you be quiet for a while before someone gets mad?
ZonieDiver
05-04-2010, 13:14
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
Though it may be a popular bumper sticker, your use of it in this situation is very "snarky" - especially considering to whom it is directed.
LongWire
05-04-2010, 13:17
I go out of my way to do so.
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
Sir, you really are showing your lack of understanding of what SF guys do, which goes back to SA.
If its just the same to You though I'll thank Mom( she's a retired Teacher before you snark or snipe again) the next time she gets her call, even though its not necessary.
You still have much to learn...............That's not intended to be patronizing, it's reality.
I go out of my way to do so.
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
Please excuse me for one little second here, but, "You go out of Your way???WTF does that mean??? I for one am offended by your remarks, and the insinuation that real MEN, like Brave SF soldiers, should take any advise from us lowly civilians about reading comprehension is horse manuer!!!
IMH-Guest-Opinion!:rolleyes::mad:
Holly...I know..I know...
Please excuse me for one little second here, but, "You go out of Your way???WTF does that mean??? I for one am offended by your remarks, and the insinuation that real MEN, like Brave SF soldiers, should take any advise from us lowly civilians about reading comprehension is horse manuer!!!
IMH-Guest-Opinion!:rolleyes:
Holly...I know..I know...
I dido the above but I wouldn't say it in such a nice manner. I think the only reason the SF members of this board have let him go on posting this long is for pure amusement. But if this is the way you carry yourself in the likes of this group I would surely not trust you to be my instructor or pilot for anything or go anywhere. Think you need to find your way to the door Sir.
My two cents,
greenberetTFS
05-04-2010, 14:24
I go out of my way to do so.
And if you can read, Thank a Teacher. (This is not snarky, it's a popular bumper sticker.)
BS,
I can READ!........:( Even though I'm an old codger I wouldn't have the cohonies to second guess LG 1947....... You sir are an asshole!........ :mad: Your also going to get me in trouble with TS,TR and also probably Richard for treating you in this manner but I've taken all I can stomach........ Go find another forum........... :mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
Dozer523
05-04-2010, 15:12
Pissed off Teddy, Zonie (two of the nicest guys here) AND Holly.
opps
robert2854
05-04-2010, 15:27
WHAT A SHOT-I don't care if it was half a mile off. Being 64YOA I wish I could hit the toilet. RATHER BE TRIED BY TWELVE THAN CARRIED BY SIX
Peregrino
05-04-2010, 15:29
OK guys (You too, Echo) - Your friendly neighborhood ADMINs are on the job. This has been addressed on the intro thread and in PMs. Move along now, there's nothing to see here. Peregrino.
For those of you offering opinions on the validity of the claims, it would be helpful if you would identify yourselves as sniper qualified or not.
Oops! I think I'll turn around and head back to General Discussion :D
brokenvan
05-04-2010, 16:01
Hmmm...
Another article on the original topic, with a bit more info on the shot:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Afghanistan-Sniper-Corporal-Of-Horse-Craig-Harrison-Sets-Record-After-Killing-Taliban/Article/201005115624184?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15624184_Afghanistan%3A_Sniper_Corpora l_Of_Horse_Craig_Harrison_Sets_Record_After_Killin g_Taliban
According to this article, "To compensate for the spin and drift of the bullets as they flew the length of 25 football pitches, Cpl of Horse Harrison reportedly had to aim 6ft high and 20ins to the left."
Then I found this article after reading about it in Soldier of Fortune: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/15/british-sniper-shoots-and-kills-taliban-warlord-one-mile-away-115875-21597649/
“We were observing down the valley and I saw a group of five Taliban. I identified one straight away as the commander because I watched him through the scope giving all the orders. I have to admit the first round landed next to him. I was so far away he didn’t even realise he was being shot at.
“I changed aim and after taking into account all the different factors including trajectory my gun scope was actually aiming at the top of a doorway. I fired and the bullet went off, coming down and hitting him in the chest. He dropped straight away into the arms of a fighter behind him.” Corporal Reynolds
Putting these two stories side by side raised some questions. I really don't know ballistics well (not a sniper) aside from basics, but after thinking about it a bit it's not sitting right with me. Am I correct in being skeptical of Corporal Harrison's shot?
LongWire
05-04-2010, 16:08
On the original topic, I will remain skeptical. Even with one hell of a range card it's still a lucky shot with what he was working with.
Even if you had a PDA, range finder, and your Bore's muzzle velocity down to a C-hair, that would have to be a well supported position with a well calculated hold over/under from a known location with targets that moved into an unknown, add whatever your cold bore is to that......and shoot through all boil? Crossing low values that cancelled each other out maybe, but all boil......I'm a skeptic.
Lucky shot Lads...........Good on Ya!!!
........“I changed aim and after taking into account all the different factors including trajectory my gun scope was actually aiming at the top of a doorway. I fired and the bullet went off, coming down and hitting him in the chest. He dropped straight away into the arms of a fighter behind him.” ................
Must have been a tall door - and a short fall into the guy's arms.
TheSiatonist
05-14-2010, 08:18
At the range of that target, a minute of angle equals about 29 inches. In all of the previous shots that I have read about, the sniper admits to aiming at a group or area target and hitting a point target after firing numerous rounds. I find this shot incredulous. To fire three shots and get three hits is beyond all wild expectations.
....
LongRange, I was wondering if you had considered this update when you posted this?
I realize you posted earlier than when this update came out but I assume you guys have access to the AARs (if there was one for this incident)
"IMPORTANT UPDATE: In a subsequent BBC Interview, Harrison reported it took about NINE shots for he and his spotter to initially range the target successfully. Then, he reported, his first shot “on target” was a killing shot. That makes the story more plausible."
From here: May 3rd (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/05/brit-sniper-makes-double-kill-at-1-54-miles-with-338-lapua-mag/)
I'm also curious: at that range, would the second guy have heard the report of the first shot right before the second bullet smacked him dead?
Bill Harsey
05-14-2010, 08:33
LongRange, I was wondering if you had considered this update when you posted this?
I realize you posted earlier than when this update came out but I assume you guys have access to the AARs (if there was one for this incident)
From here: May 3rd (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/05/brit-sniper-makes-double-kill-at-1-54-miles-with-338-lapua-mag/)
I'm also curious: at that range, would the second guy have heard the report of the first shot right before the second bullet smacked him dead?
Sand Man,
Just a heads up on this conversation, LongRange does a lot of consideration when he posts here and has plenty of other work to do besides tracking an event he was not involved in.
The Reaper
05-14-2010, 08:34
I'm also curious: at that range, would the second guy have heard the report of the first shot right before the second bullet smacked him dead?
Do you think he missed the sound of the first nine ranging shots fired?
TR
TheSiatonist
05-14-2010, 09:30
Sand Man,
Just a heads up on this conversation, LongRange does a lot of consideration when he posts here and has plenty of other work to do besides tracking an event he was not involved in.
Understood.
Do you think he missed the sound of the first nine ranging shots fired?
TR
Reaper, I guess I wasn't thinking clearly when I typed that. More properly stated, at that distance, I was wondering on the time delay the report of the shot would be heard by an observer close to the target right after bullet impact.
More of a rhetoric question, really...
Bill Harsey
05-14-2010, 09:42
Sand Man,
Not knowing the air temp the day the shots were made I based a rough calculation on 80 degrees F and it looks like about 7 seconds for the sound of a shot to reach the location of impact if the bullet travelled 1.5 miles.
Any corrections welcomed.
TheSiatonist
05-14-2010, 09:51
Sand Man,
Not knowing the air temp the day the shots were made I based a rough calculation on 80 degrees F and it looks like about 7 seconds for the sound of a shot to reach the location of impact if the bullet travelled 1.5 miles.
Any corrections welcomed.
Bill, I'll take your word for it. 7 seconds. Damn. That is a long time!
LongWire
05-14-2010, 09:52
Sand Man,
Not knowing the air temp the day the shots were made I based a rough calculation on 80 degrees F and it looks like about 7 seconds for the sound of a shot to reach the location of impact if the bullet travelled 1.5 miles.
Any corrections welcomed.
Sounds about right to me, but there would be 2 sounds..........the sound of the inbound bullet, and the sound (report) produced from the originating rifle.
Crack....................thump.............
Of course at that distance, I cant say how much of a crack the inbound bullet would make as it would surely be slowing down considerably.
Things to consider.................
I'm sure Adam and Jamie could find a way to shed some light on this.
Buffalobob
05-22-2010, 18:31
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/support-weapons/1459.aspx
Apparently they come with a suppressor.
The round is subsonic by the time it gets there.
JME, at ranges of a mile a combat soldier will not notice the report even without a silencer. Once the round goes subsonic there is no longer the sonic crack as it goes by. They will hear the sound of the impact of the bullet but it takes some time before they figure out what the noise means.