Trijicon puts Bible passages on it's sites

[Sdiver]

Don't know how well this is going to play out.

Wonder what you Gents, who use these sites, think of this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_military_weapons_bible_passages

Michigan defense contractor has God in its sights


WASHINGTON – Army officials said Tuesday they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with the contractor, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.

The references have stoked concerns by a watch dog group about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops. But military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the tens of thousands of telescoping sights that have already been bought.

Trijicon said it has been longstanding company practice to put the Scripture citations on the equipment. Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said the company has never received any complaints until now.

"We don't publicize this," Munson said in a recent interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.

Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.

"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.

Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the markings. But Army acquisition experts will determine if Trijicon violated any procurement regulations, he said.

Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

[Paslode]

MSNBC has a nice poll on the matter....lots of interesting comments

[C0B2A]

I will be happy to continue to buy products from Trijicon.. in fact I just made my way to there site to see if i happen to need anything right now. They have my full support and appreciation.

[nousdefions]

I saw this on another forum and couldn't help but smile.

"I hear each scope is equipped with “cross” hairs, too. Will these Christianists never stop?"

[Utah Bob]

I was on another forum and people got so crazy discussing it the moderators had to pull the thread.:rolleyes:

[longrange1947]

My first, second, and third impulse is to say "so what"? :munchin

The scripture quotes have been on those sights since day one.

[Ret10Echo]

I was on another forum and people got so crazy discussing it the moderators had to pull the thread.:rolleyes:

Like the front page of "The Onion" this week:

"Gay Teen Worried He Might Be Christian"

......But lately, a growing worry has begun to plague this young gay man. A gnawing feeling that, deep down, he may be a fundamentalist, right-wing Christian.

Boy I would hate to own an item produced by someone who holds true to what the Scriptures say...it might be purposefully built, perform well and be reasonably priced.

[Team Sergeant]

Here's the best reason to keep the sights the way they are:

Muslims Angry Over U.S. Military 'Jesus' Rifles

Muslim groups reacted angrily Wednesday after it emerged that the U.S. military is using combat rifle sights inscribed with coded Biblical references.

Army officials have said they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on the gun sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations on Wednesday said the continued use of the sights with the religious references would send a negative message to the Muslim world.

"The use of military equipment with hidden Bible references sends the false message to Muslims worldwide that we are at war with Islam," said CAIR Legal Counsel Nadhira Al-Khalili. "In addition, these sights are a potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces, endanger our troops and alienate our Muslim allies. They should we withdrawn as soon as logistically possible."

The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.

"If determined to be true, this is clearly inappropriate and we are looking into possible remedies," Commander Darryn James, a Pentagon spokesman, told AFP.

The references have stoked concerns by a watch dog group about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops. But military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the tens of thousands of telescoping sights that have already been bought.

The codes were used as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country," Trijicon said.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," a company spokesman said on condition of anonymity.

Trijicon said it has been longstanding company practice to put the Scripture citations on the equipment. Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said the company has never received any complaints until now.

"We don't publicize this," Munson said in a recent interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.

Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.

"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.

Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the markings. But Army acquisition experts will determine if Trijicon violated any procurement regulations, he said.

Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583508,00.html?test=latestnews

[MackallResident]

Leave it to CAIR to have something to say about this! I am so pissed, how you be a good American and a member/supporter of CAIR? YOU CAN'T! Why would an organization that is housed in AMERICA vie on the side of Muslims who have a problem with what our optics have on them? I have read about this on many forums, and I think that if you are in America, and not in our Armed Forces, or a supporter of our armed forces, then shut the fuck up or GTFO.

We protect the rights of CAIR, and I personally do so gladly, but when you raise concerns about the equipment used to keep your ass safe, then in my book, you are the enemy.

This Country was founded on the principals of Christianity, and as long as I am alive, I will attempt to live by those principals. May Trijicon continue to serve us and our enemies with the due respect deserved by both.

[pdorsey]

Perhaps US ammo manufactures will catch on to this idea and start putting scripture engravings on the bullets they send to Iraq and Afghanistan. That way when an insurgent gets shot it will hurt just a little bit more knowing he has a little piece of the Bible inside him. Heck on a 50 cal round you might be able to get a whole verse engraved on there. ;)

[dadof18x'er]

The codes were used as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country," Trijicon said.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," a company spokesman said on condition of anonymity.[/url]

every Army graduation I've been to has included prayer, will that be next?
our country has a Christian founding and tradition.... I personally love the God of the Bible, I wish the chaplains would end their prayer in Jesus Name.

[dr. mabuse]

Well, if it pisses off CAIR, then I need to grab a couple of ACOGS for good measure.:D

There'd be value in that even if I was an atheist.

[cszakolczai]

My first, second, and third impulse is to say "so what"? :munchin

The scripture quotes have been on those sights since day one.

I have to agree... "so what?"

When you say the scripture quotes have been on since day one... is that day one of the company, even before the wars in the Middle East? Or is that after the war in Afghanistan and Iraq?

If the scripture quotes have been on there since day one even before the current wars, then I do not see any possibilty of making the claim that this is a Christian-Islam war. I think if you wanted to, anyone can find some sort of ridiculous connection trying to create the idea that this is a holy war against Islam.

[craigepo]

I wish the chaplains would end their prayer in Jesus Name.

Kinda awkward for the Jewish guys though.

[nousdefions]

In keeping with the new "Green" initiatives, maybe we should go back to using pig fat as bullet lube .....

[PedOncoDoc]

Are soldiers not allowed to take Bibles or other holy writings on deployment? Can they keep a piece of paper with a Biblical quote on their person when down range as a faith reference? If these are allowed, the soldiers could argue the sight is their "field expedient bible" to aide in keeping their faith during stressful and dark times. Unless the soldeirs are going out of their way to show the Bible citations to the Iraqi's and Afgan's the go on to recite the chapter and verse referenced by the citation and explain the teachings contained within the particular passages cited I do not see this as proselytizing.

[Richard]

This could cause some real legal issues with local, state, and federal law enforcement agency regulations, too - a foolish act on the part of the Trijicon leadership.

Along those same lines - http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/burned-bibles/

Are soldiers not allowed to take Bibles or other holy writings on deployment?

A personal religious item carried by a service member does not infer an official government religious policy other than the freedom to practice one's personal religious beliefs - placing a quotation from a particular religious text upon an 'issued' item of government contracted equipment which one has to carry does. What's next - "Gott mit uns" belt buckles?

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[mojaveman]

I just read something on the internet that said the Army of New Zealand isn't too happy with their new Trijicon sights and that they're going to be removing the information.

[Rogue]

looks like Trijicon has bowed to the wishes of the powers that be....

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791

[Dozer523]

Are soldiers not allowed to take Bibles or other holy writings on deployment? Can they keep a piece of paper with a Biblical quote on their person when down range as a faith reference? If these are allowed, the soldiers could argue the sight is their "field expedient bible" to aide in keeping their faith during stressful and dark times.

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/cards.asp

They don't need a scrap of paper, they can always use their High Value Target or their vehicle ID deck of cards. They don't need some bible thumper telling them what bible verse to carry into combat.

I was never a verse guy anyway, I liked having a St. Christopher and a St. Michael the Arch-Angel medals around my neck and over my heart.

What's next - "Gott mit uns" belt buckles?

It worked out well for the last guys to use that one.

[cszakolczai]

Heres a picture of what some of the complaints were about.

[mark46th]

How about we take every piece of ordnance and put a dab of pig's blood on it as part of the manufacturing process...

[Richard]

How about we take every piece of ordnance and put a dab of pig's blood on it as part of the manufacturing process...

Personally, I think there's enough 'pork' involved in the whole process as it is without adding any more to it. ;)

And so it goes...

Richard

[Utah Bob]

Personally, I think there's enough 'pork' involved in the whole process as it is without adding any more to it. ;)

And so it goes...

Richard

Har! Ya got that right.

[PedOncoDoc]

I was never a verse guy anyway, I liked having a St. Christopher and a St. Michael the Arch-Angel medals around my neck and over my heart.

I'm with you on that one Dozer - I was gifted a St. Michael medal from a convent in northern Kentucky along with an old crucifix one of the sisters prayed with before going back to the source. I wear the medal everywhere - except when my son wants to borrow it - I'm all for him cultivating a fierce heart.

[greenberetTFS]

Here's the best reason to keep the sights the way they are:

Muslims Angry Over U.S. Military 'Jesus' Rifles

Muslim groups reacted angrily Wednesday after it emerged that the U.S. military is using combat rifle sights inscribed with coded Biblical references.

Army officials have said they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on the gun sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations on Wednesday said the continued use of the sights with the religious references would send a negative message to the Muslim world.

"The use of military equipment with hidden Bible references sends the false message to Muslims worldwide that we are at war with Islam," said CAIR Legal Counsel Nadhira Al-Khalili. "In addition, these sights are a potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces, endanger our troops and alienate our Muslim allies. They should we withdrawn as soon as logistically possible."

The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.

"If determined to be true, this is clearly inappropriate and we are looking into possible remedies," Commander Darryn James, a Pentagon spokesman, told AFP.

The references have stoked concerns by a watch dog group about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops. But military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the tens of thousands of telescoping sights that have already been bought.

The codes were used as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country," Trijicon said.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," a company spokesman said on condition of anonymity.

Trijicon said it has been longstanding company practice to put the Scripture citations on the equipment. Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said the company has never received any complaints until now.

"We don't publicize this," Munson said in a recent interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.

Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.

"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.

Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the markings. But Army acquisition experts will determine if Trijicon violated any procurement regulations, he said.

Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583508,00.html?test=latestnews

I go along with TS and LG1947,especially since it pisses off the muslims.....:lifter:lifter:lifter

Big Teddy :munchin

[dadof18x'er]

Kinda awkward for the Jewish guys though.

whoops.. good point:o

[mark46th]

I would love to have one of those $3000.00 crappers.

[Danimal18C]

This boggles my mind,

I can see the concern if Trijicon was engraving the actual biblical verses on the side of weapon sight, but we're talking about a couple of letters and numbers that are part of the optic part number that have a biblical reference. I must concur with my brethen who first say " Who cares." But the nature of this argument is completely out of hand in the media. We as Americans must apologize for our way of life, for our traditions and cultures, in order not to offend people, while insurgents and terrorists scream "allah akbar" at the top of their lungs before killing anyone who isn't like them. I'm not saying we throw our culture or religious beliefs in other peoples' faces the way Muslims do, but there is nothing wrong with a Christian founded company incorporating a reference to their beliefs in the most subtle way on a part number. If the owner/operator of a trijicon product is that offended, he has the ability to take an angle grinder and manually strip that number off his personal optic.

Trijicon has built it's reputation on the quality of it's products. I personally appreciate their products as excellent weapon optics. I couldn't care less if it had a Qu'ranic reference, a Jewish reference or a Satanic Pentagram etched on the side. If Iraqis and Afghans are so upset with the Biblical reference, then they have the choice not to buy the products (by buy, I mean have US tax payers pay for them, and "Donated" to them). Hell, it's hard enough to get those guys to use their iron sights in a gunfight. And... If we are so concerned about offending our enemies, who wage war against us regardless of scriptual references on our optics, I can assure you that if that optic is employed correctly, an insurgent fighter won't be able to read the part number while lying face down, 400-600m away.

The whole arguement against these optics is people who want a seperation of church and government. Got it... I agree with you... and I agree that our secularism makes America the perfect conglomeration of all cultures. Every single culture on the planet is represented somewhere by someone in the United States. But it is pure hatred and ignorance on the part of our enemies that would dare refer to our current campaigns as "A Christian Crusade against Islam." We have a multi-cultural US military working with a Multi-national partnership, that trains and fights with Muslim jundies, that is sustaining (unfortunately) an Islamic regime in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have regulations that ban religious evangelism. We have US engineers and CA units building MOSQUES in both theaters. I'd certainly say we are doing our part to remain objective and not wave a banner of any one faith. The heart of the matter is people around the world, especially in our own country, feel we have to apologize for being who we are. It's Trijicon having to apologize for doing anything to celebrate it's roots of origin. Lets be honest... there would be no controversy if the spiritual reference on an optic was a Zen Buddhist one...

So until a Muslim company builds a better scope than Trijicon, I'll gladly use an ACOG, and should the day arrive that a Muslim company does make a better product with a Qu'ranic reference, i will gladly, and ironically use their scope to shoot religiously-motivated insurgents that fight against our great country.

Last thought: if a simple reference on a part number is enough to piss off the whole Islamic world... I see it fit that they return every piece of the BILLIONS of dollars in US Currency that states "IN GOD WE TRUST." Yeah... they aren't so easily offended when they are taking our money.

[Ret10Echo]

Wonder if some entrepreneur will design and produce a "stick on" Bible verse that looks like the Trijicon reference and sell it as an appliqué.....

Hmmmmmm


:munchin

[armymom1228]

BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474268.stm)

US firm to remove Biblical references on gunsights


Soldiers are concerned the markings could put them at risk if captured
A US military contractor has said it will stop engraving Biblical references on rifles used by the US army.

The markings, in the form of coded references, have been appearing on products made by the US firm Trijicon, based in Michigan, for decades.

But on Thursday, US military chief Gen David Petraeus, said the practice of scripture references was "disturbing" and "a serious concern". With al due respect Sir, dont you have better things to do like fighting a war?


The firm also sells the gunsights to Australia, New Zealand and the UK.

The inscriptions - which include "2COR4:6" and "JN8:12", relating to verses in the books of II Corinthians and John - appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number.

The company pledged to remove the inscription reference on all products destined for the US military yet to be shipped and ensure all future procurements from the department of defence are produced without scripture references.


Religious sensitivities

It also said it would provide 100 modification kits to forces in the field to remove the references. "Trijicon has proudly served the US military for more than two decades, and our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," the firm, founded by a devout Christian, said in a statement released on Friday.
oh great, at more cost to the taxpayers. Just leave the sights alone have shipped and let the soldiers suck it up and deal with it. Some might actualy want it to remain. I can see it now, the weapons guys with thier dremels running around grinding off some letters.. how dumb.

The references - first reported on by ABC News - had raised concerns that they broke a US rules barring troops proselytising in the predominantly Muslim countries of Afghanistan and Iraq, where they are widely used by both the US and British military. Ah well, there ya go, PC MSM, gotta find something to bitch and moan about.

Gen Petraeus, head of the US Central Command, said: "Cultural and religious sensitivities are important considerations in the conduct of military operations."
I will give you that one Sir, but why not just say, oops, we didnt' know it was there. No more will be shipped with it on it and life will go on.
kindal like me not telling the kids to NOT write on each other with magic marker and having two kids covered in drawings. Hey that is not cool, don't do it again! and get on with life.


In a letter sent to the US president on Thursday, the head of the Interfaith Alliance said the gunsights "clearly violate" the rule.
WTF are they? the pc police?

"Images of American soldiers as Christian crusaders come to mind when they are carrying weaponry bearing such verses," Welton Gaddy said.

Earlier in the week, the Church of England told the UK's Guardian newspaper: "People of all faiths and none are being killed and injured in these *conflicts, on all sides, and any suggestion that this is being done in the name of the Bible would be deeply worrying to many *Christians."
And whom did you poll for that comment Sir? Dont' think many in my world would agree with you.


On Thursday, New Zealand's defence ministry said it was in talks with Trijicon about the best way to remove the markings without damaging the sights.

Australia too is reportedly assessing how best to respond



Marcus Aurelius wrote, "there are but two rules, to keep an untroubled spirit and to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

Honestly who cares what a Christian owned company that makes really good sights puts on them does as long as they do the job they were intended on doing?
I bet no one would be complaining if the playmate of the year were stamped on the gunsights right?

Apologies if I offend. But I think that the MSM is making to much of this. It could be argued that the letters are the company's trademark .. now if they had copyrighted it on thier sights, it might be a trademark violation.. no idea but any agruement is worth a shot.

[ApacheIP]

Wonder if some entrepreneur will design and produce a "stick on" Bible verse that looks like the Trijicon reference and sell it as an appliqué.....

Hmmmmmm


:munchin

What is your intellectual property fee?;)

[rltipton]

The thus far unmentioned irony of it all is that if Trijicon truly "practiced what they preach" they'd tell the press and the gubmint to pound sand. They'd continue tooling the sights the way they always have and tell the customers to remove it themselves if they don't like it or buy them from someone else.

But...the fat $$$$$$$$$ contract won over principles. Piss on Trijicon for folding. :munchin

[Ret10Echo]

What is your intellectual property fee?;)

Go for it...

Call it Optiverse..........:D

[armymom1228]

The thus far unmentioned irony of it all is that if Trijicon truly "practiced what they preach" they'd tell the press and the gubmint to pound sand. They'd continue tooling the sights the way they always have and tell the customers to remove it themselves if they don't like it or buy them from someone else.

But...the fat $$$$$$$$$ contract won over principles. Piss on Trijicon for folding. :munchin

Yeah, but then they would lose the $$ they will make by selling "removal" kits.

[dadof18x'er]

Yeah, but then they would lose the $$ they will make by selling "removal" kits.

any soldier who is also a spiritual warrior will have the Word deep in his heart safe from any man (or demon's) reach, nobody can remove God's Word..just ask Mao, Nero, Hitler, Stalin and so on.:munchin

[Box]

I carried an ACOG on the top of my rifle during the course of six deployments in support of the global war on terrorism (now referred to as OCO as we pander to those poor muslim sensibilities by not calling it a war)...

Kept my shot groups tight. Never let me down. Never once did my Jesus gun cause me to twitch with the uncontrollable urge to proselytize my beliefs to muslims that were quite comfortable at proselytizing their beliefs to me...

It does my heart good to know I was given the opportunity to shoot a "Jesus gun" at those radical, hateful nut jobs...


meh

[Richard]

"...spiritual warrior..." a clearly misunderstood concept.

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin

[dadof18x'er]

"...spiritual warrior..." a clearly misunderstood concept.

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin

I agree, here's a few of the best concepts...

[PedOncoDoc]

If the PC police want to get their panties in a bunch over proselytizing, why don't we - or even better yet, the UN - send said PC police and a crapload of lawyers into the desert to round up and convict the insurgents for proselytizing during the war? I see this as a potential win-win situation, no offense to present company. :D

[Marina]

We were directed to and pulled the ACOGs from inventory last week. Certified up the chain - no Jesus guns.

:(

[greenberetTFS]

I go along with TS and LG1947,especially since it pisses off the muslims.....

Big Teddy :munchin

I don't get it,it really "upsets the muslims"(pisses them off),so lets not upset the muslims! :confused: WTF !!!!! :mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

[Papa Zero Three]

I hope none of the people bitching about this get the chance to look through one of these optics. Next thing you know they'll be claiming its still a jesus gun because the lines inside it form a cross.:rolleyes:

[wet dog]

I don't get it,it really "upsets the muslims"(pisses them off),so lets not upset the muslims! :confused: WTF !!!!! :mad:

Big Teddy :munchin


It's not the Muslim's who are upset, it's the Liberals who are upset thinking we might be upsetting someone else.

I'm offended by those easily offended.

If we can not have religious symbols on US property, I guess we better take the 'Cross' and 'Star of David' out of Arlington, or the word Catholic off of Dog Tags.

Soldiers better not have any tattoos that might offend a Liberal.

[Richard]

The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it. It is not disbelief that is dangerous to our society; it is belief.
- George Bernard Shaw

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[Razor]

Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.
- Alexander Hamilton

[Team Sergeant]

The next one that posts a bible passage is going to get banned.

This is not a "Christians R Us" website. Save the bible quoting for those websites.

This thread is closed.

Team Sergeant

[Richard]

RE: Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.
- Alexander Hamilton

:confused:

The attributions to Alexander Hamilton for this quote are all over the Web, but there is no hard evidence anywhere linking it to him. On the other hand the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations says that the British journalist Alex Hamilton said 'Those who stand for nothing fall for anything', in a 1978 radio broadcast which was subsequently transcribed in the journal The Listener.

In a 1997 court case which entirely hinged on the authorship of the line 'You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything', the defence showed that similar lines had been used by {US Senate Chaplain} Peter Marshall in 1947, by Ginger Rogers in 1978, by the British Alex Hamilton in the same year, and by unnamed writers to newspapers in 1989 and 1990; also that it had been ascribed to both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. Despite the amount of research that must have gone into amassing those citations, no mention was made of Alexander Hamilton.

http://forum.quoteland.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=586192041&f=099191541&m=474104316&r=474104316
And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin