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NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 18:03
What about NAFTA? Good? bad?

Sdiver
07-11-2004, 18:17
For the Entertainment Bussiness it SUCKS. More and more work is going North of the border. One of course is cost. It's cheaper to film in Canada. You can take a 40 million dollar pic that's made here in the PNW and go up to Vancouver and make it for 28 million (US).

Sure it's a bussiness and it all revoles around the dollars and cents, but what hurts the people that work here in the States is the fact WE can't go over the Border to work. Only those in "Key" positions, (ie: Directors, Actors, DP's [Director of Photography] 1st AD's and other "Key" people), even then, the Canadain Flim Commission will want that project to use as many Canadaians as possible in those positions. But the Canucks can come down here and work on a project that was filmed up in Canada and then come down here to do some pick up shots. Then there is NO TARRIFF on the film going back over the Border into Toronto to be proccessed and developed, then released out of Toronto instead of L.A.

So for me, NAFTA is a mistake.

NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 18:22
I was thinking more strategically. LOL

Sdiver
07-11-2004, 18:29
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I was thinking more strategically. LOL

Oh Okay....sorry.

But I still don't like it....NAFTA that is.

The Reaper
07-11-2004, 19:35
If the LATAM economies weren't terminally depressed, it would be a much more symbiotic relationship for the US.

I suspect that we probably import at least three or four times more from LATAM than they import from us, particularly with oil imports included.

Canada is our largest trading partner, but it seems to be much more of a two-way street with them.

TR

myclearcreek
07-11-2004, 19:51
Living near the NAFTA highway :rolleyes: , there is regular discussion in this area. Most I have listened to think NAFTA benefits LATAM receives the bulk of the benefit currently, and that it will be decades before it approaches a two-way benefit. That seems to be accurate to date.

Roguish Lawyer
07-11-2004, 19:59
I like it. But I will concede that I have not studied the results at all since it was enacted. I just like free trade generally speaking.

NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 20:37
I looked for results this afternoon. Everything I could find was spun one way or the other.

Reaper, I have no doubt it has benefited Mexico more than the US, but that may not be such a bad thing in the long run for other reasons.

Canada appears to be the biggest beneficiary from what little I could find. Of course the corporations are making out like bandits because of lower per worker costs.

Roguish Lawyer
07-11-2004, 21:07
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Reaper, I have no doubt it has benefited Mexico more than the US, but that may not be such a bad thing in the long run for other reasons.

You say this only because you are focused on production rather than consumption. If we are buying their stuff, it's because we want to. It means we are happy doing it. As consumers, that is.

NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 21:10
True enough I guess.

The Reaper
07-11-2004, 21:21
The biggest export of Mexico right now is Mexicans.

The reason Mexicans come here illegally is not the cuisine, it is the jobs and money.

The quicker we can make Mexico a place where people can be employed at a decent wage, the sooner they will quit coming here illegally. We don't want to stop the immigration, as it would be bad for both countries, just reduce it to manageable numbers.

The rationale for crossing will largely disappear, and both nations will be better.

Of course, there is probably sufficient wealth in Mexico to create that situation right now, but it is not equitably distributed. The beauty of the illegals is that they generally send the money home to their families, who spend it and energize the domestic Mexican economy.

I suspect that the NAFTA income is not disseminated at quite as low a level, but it does provide significant domestic employment and income as companies seek lower wage laborers.

Just my .02.

TR

NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 21:23
Pretty much my thinking as well.

Roguish Lawyer
07-11-2004, 21:25
Originally posted by The Reaper
Of course, there is probably sufficient wealth in Mexico to create that situation right now, but it is not equitably distributed.

You made me a bit nervous with that one, TR! LOL :D

The Reaper
07-11-2004, 21:30
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
You made me a bit nervous with that one, TR! LOL :D

What do you think happens to the billions in oil PEMEX produces every year?

More specifically, look at how long before Fox the previous party had been in power, and how wealth in Mexico is distributed.

We don't want another Revolution, but they better realize the nature of the powder keg they are sitting on.

If we really closed the border, IMHO, Mexico would have a full fledged insurgency again within a year, and would depose their government and the wealthy within 36 months.

TR

Sdiver
07-11-2004, 21:42
TR....if the above senerio were to play out, could you see the US getting involved, militarily?

Just thinking waaaay outside the box here, but I think that the three countries become one....The United States of North America, with one currency. Any thoughts?

Pandora
07-11-2004, 22:20
Waiting with baited breath for responses to this one. If you assimilate us, do we get to keep our igloos? ;)

NousDefionsDoc
07-11-2004, 22:29
Originally posted by Pandora
Waiting with baited breath for responses to this one. If you assimilate us, do we get to keep our igloos? ;)

No, but you can keep the bacon, tastes too much like ham to me.

Pandora
07-11-2004, 23:28
No, but you can keep the bacon, tastes too much like ham to me.

Sure beats SPAM!

I know very little about economics - wouldn't the low wages in Mexico drive all of our wages down if there was a single currency?
An equalizing factor? What is the minimum wage in Mexico - if there is a minimum wage in Mexico. How do military wages and benefits compare across the borders, both northern and southern?

Roguish Lawyer
07-12-2004, 11:28
Originally posted by Sdiver
TR....if the above senerio were to play out, could you see the US getting involved, militarily?

Just thinking waaaay outside the box here, but I think that the three countries become one....The United States of North America, with one currency. Any thoughts?

During the cold war, I always thought annexing Canada would be a grand idea. We could move our ICBMs way closer to the Russkies, plus we get all that wood!

J/K LOL :p

The Reaper
07-12-2004, 11:36
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
During the cold war, I always thought annexing Canada would be a grand idea. We could move our ICBMs way closer to the Russkies, plus we get all that wood!

J/K LOL :p

And look how many independence minded French come with that deal.

No thanks.

TR

Pandora
07-12-2004, 12:49
*sniff* you don't want us just because of a few rabid francophiles? Picky, picky.

Roguish Lawyer
07-12-2004, 13:04
"Nous defions."

-- Frenchy Canadien de Quebec

LOL

Pandora
07-12-2004, 18:22
Ok, forget the phrench - would someone clever please educate me on:

1. why I personally would benefit from assimilation
2. what the impact would be economically if there was one currency for all of North America
3. we're NOT giving up our good beer - no matter how inviting you make the offer








(btw, born in *that* province - speak not a word of the other official language, but darn, before nuking the francophiles from the next province over, could you please save the Montreal Jazz festival?)

The Reaper
07-12-2004, 18:30
Pandora:

Don't take this personally, but we have all of the socialists we need in the U.S. right now, and do not want any more. I think you have even more entitlements per capita than we do. I would not want Canada as a part of my country without significant changes, and that would likely be a deal breaker. Firearms laws in Canada, for example, with a few exceptions, are intolerable to me. OTOH, you may not want to trade your beer for ours. Miller, Coors, and A-B would assimilate your breweries and change them within weeks.

The only recommendation I can make for it would be to form an economic bloc and pooling of resources to compete with the Euros or the Chinese.

I look at it this way. No matter how nice my next door neighbor seems to be, I am not sure that I would want him and his crew to move in with me and my family.

TR

Roguish Lawyer
07-12-2004, 20:04
I love Canada. Then again, I am a hockey player and fan. :)

We vacation often at our timeshare in Whistler.

Pandora
07-12-2004, 22:36
Don't take this personally, but we have all of the socialists we need in the U.S. right now, and do not want any more. I think you have even more entitlements per capita than we do. I would not want Canada as a part of my country without significant changes, and that would likely be a deal breaker. Firearms laws in Canada, for example, with a few exceptions, are intolerable to me.

No offense taken at all, Sir.

As much as I am oft accused of having views more liken to Americans politically, I have to admit that I must have some latent Socialist tendancies. I'm typically a hard-liner on what (little) I try to understand of world issues; I believe in an equally dirty fight on the war on terrorism, I believe WMD aside - Saddam had to go, I dislike my government's lax stance on immigration policies, and I have a deep frustration with welfare policies/abuses up here. Still, a liberal on some issues (see the abortion thread), but more often, most Canucks would toss me out due to my "non-peacekeeping" views. Diplomacy be damned! ;)


That said, the fact that I know for certainty that I have a higher percentage of disposable income at the end of the day than my parallel coworkers in any of 26 nations does reaffirm my allegiance to the Maple Leaf on a professional level. Not to imply we're worth anymore professionally up here for my industry (IT - software), but that I wish my coworkers had the same scaled pay - we all work our behinds off.

As well, the most notable of the entitlements is state-run health care. Let me preface my next argument by saying that there are exceptions to the benefits of this system, (i.e. long wait times for MRI's and new drugs, etc.), but overall, again, based on discussions with coworkers around the world, I'm relieved that lower rung employees up can get adequate medical care for their kids without shorting them on groceries. Sounds an awful lot like a liberal stance, but I prefer to view it as "care & feeding of coworkers I respect greatly."

The Gun Registry... I hope the other ladies of PS will forgive me for stating this so bluntly, but that just a C.F. if I ever saw one. You have my entire agreement on this issue, Sir. No contest. Abysmal failure on all levels. (insert your favorite image here of the Darwin award trophies).

Now then, to the important stuff - YOU WILL NOT CHANGE OUR BREWING STANDARDS. :D Our under-paid, under-equippped, under-acknowledged lil' ole military will pelt you into submission with timbits before that's going to happen. And I don't even drink beer often. But when I do, it better have bite, eh?

I look at it this way. No matter how nice my next door neighbor seems to be, I am not sure that I would want him and his crew to move in with me and my family.

Reasonable, but I sure hope y'all take me in when they kick me out because I like Bush. :D

Edit to add: I think Moore is an idiot, Kerry scares me, and I like grits. My paper money is prettier and easier to calculate rapidly on quick view of the wallet, I miss $2 dollar bills (what is this Looney business?), Whistler is amazing, but if I win the lotto I will be found in Scottsdale, AZ if they let this socialist/Conservative in.

Pandora
07-12-2004, 22:42
for RL:

Top Ten Perks of Canadian World Domination

10. Votes are taken in the senate by hockey fights.
9. Too busy fighting with Quebec to care what the rest of the world is doing.
8. Three words: Planetary Hockey League.
7. Honour, colour, favour will be spelled correctly!
6. Moosehead & Molsen at domestic prices!
5. It would be a polite takeover.
4. Hell freezes over, making a really nice ice hockey rink.
3. Curling will replace NFL on Monday nights.
2. Finally get those damn Americans to use the metric system.
1. Civil disputes are to be settled by a single overtime period a shootout at the defendants discretion.

Pandora
07-12-2004, 22:56
I still would still like someone to edumacate me on the repercussions of a single NA curreny - please/thanks?

Sdiver
07-12-2004, 23:16
Originally posted by Pandora
for RL:

Top Ten Perks of Canadian World Domination

10. Votes are taken in the senate by hockey fights.
9. Too busy fighting with Quebec to care what the rest of the world is doing.
8. Three words: Planetary Hockey League.
7. Honour, colour, favour will be spelled correctly!
6. Moosehead & Molsen at domestic prices!
5. It would be a polite takeover.
4. Hell freezes over, making a really nice ice hockey rink.
3. Curling will replace NFL on Monday nights.
2. Finally get those damn Americans to use the metric system.
1. Civil disputes are to be settled by a single overtime period a shootout at the defendants discretion.

ROTFLMMFAO
I'm dying here !!!!
That's Great.:D

Pandora
07-12-2004, 23:27
I feel hours of pain, abuse and bashing coming on, but if you enjoyed that, then you are sure to have laughs here (http://cwd.ptbcanadian.com/direct.html). If you read nothing else, you have to check this link (http://cwd.ptbcanadian.com/chickenberr.htm).

Enter at your own risk. You WILL be assimilated.

I swear, I was really hoping to learn something in this thread before it went SOUTH.

:munchin

The Reaper
07-13-2004, 08:58
Hating America
Friday, July 09, 2004
By Bill O'Reilly

Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly. Thank you for watching us tonight.

Hating America. That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo." According to a new poll, 40 percent of Canadian teenagers think America is an evil country. Among French-Canadian teens, the number jumps to 64 percent. Those numbers can be laid right on the doorstep of the Canadian media and government

As you may know, the FOX News Channel is not allowed in Canada, but CNN is. Fair and balanced? You decide.

The USA takes a relentless pounding from many Canadian news organizations and from the liberal government. So, what can we expect from the kids? They're not getting a full picture. And neither is most of the world.

Increasingly, the bully America is being portrayed as the devil. And the far left in this country is gleefully piling on. Guys like Michael Moore [are] running around the world telling everybody what a bad place America is. Moore and his enablers should be very proud of themselves

For the benefit of the Canadian kids, let's take a look at the record:

•The foreign and defense policies of Ronald Reagan (search) resulted in the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the freeing of approximately 122 million people in Eastern Europe.

• The state of Israel would cease to exist if not for American protection, and about 5.5 million Jews would be in grave danger.

• Nearly 23 million Taiwanese would be denied freedom if not for American protection. More than 48 million South Koreans would be living under a dictatorship if not for American protection. USA action led to the removal of the Serbian dictator Milosevic (search), who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Balkans.

• The USA and Britain removed the Iraqi dictator Hussein, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East. And we have also removed the terrorist Taliban government in Afghanistan.

• America is sending $15 billion to Africa to help victims of AIDS. We were unable to find out how much France contributes, if anything. To be fair, Canada sends $270 million, which is substantial.

• American action in Central America, Grenada (search), and Haiti (search) has kept millions of people out of totalitarian regimes. Of course, all of this has cost every American taxpayer big. And thousands of American servicepeople have lost their lives protecting people overseas.

It is insulting and dishonest for Americans and Canadians and Europeans to condemn this country because they don't like certain policies. Dissent is good. Slander is unacceptable.

The truth is that the USA has freed more human beings in 230 years than the rest of the world combined. France has freed almost no one. Ditto Canada.

So, pardon me as I object to the Michael Moores of the world — and that man is too cowardly to come in here, all right? Pardon me as I object to the anti-American foreign press and bums like Chirac in France and Chretien in Canada.

America has a provable history of freeing oppressed people all over the world in fighting evil dictators. Canada should be ashamed that so many of its young people are flat out ignorant. And Americans should wise up and realize we are living in a changing world. Old friends are not necessarily true friends.

And that's "The Memo."



FYI, France has actually freed millions when their colonies revolted or were dumped. Let us review their history in Africa and SE Asia to add to the legacy of "Vichy France".

TR

The Reaper
07-19-2004, 11:44
Originally posted by Pandora
Ok, forget the phrench - would someone clever please educate me on:

1. why I personally would benefit from assimilation
2. what the impact would be economically if there was one currency for all of North America
3. we're NOT giving up our good beer - no matter how inviting you make the offer


HAHAHA!!! All your bases are become us!!

Source: Coors, Molson in Merger Talks
Monday, July 19, 2004

NEW YORK — Adolph Coors Co. (RKY), the No. 3 U.S. brewer, is engaged in talks to merge with Canadian brewing company Molson Inc. (search), hoping to create a more powerful rival to market leaders SABMiller and Anheuser-Busch (BUD), sources close to the situation said Monday.

The talks remain tenuous and could break down at any time, the sources said. Still, if successful, the deal would solve expansion issues for both companies, which have watched larger rivals snatch up competitors around the globe the past few years.

Denver-based Coors, in particular, has struggled of late to overcome a health-conscious shift away from beer to wine and distilled spirits. Unlike other brands, Coors has yet to introduce a successful low-carbohydrate beer and the company's Coors Light brand is losing share to SABMiller's Miller Lite and Anheuser-Busch's Bud Light.

Molson, Canada's oldest brewer, has been searching for ways to gain a leg up on rival Labatt, owned by Interbrew. The company bought Brazil's Kaiser brewery in 2002 in an effort to expand its reach into South America, but the venture has proved to be a drain on its profits.

Both Coors and Molson did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Coors and Molson already have joint ventures to distribute each other's products in the United States and Canada so it is hard to see how a combination would benefit them, said Benj Steinman, editor of industry trade newsletter Beer Marketer's Insights.


"It makes them bigger on the global scene," Steinman said. "But no major synergies are immediately apparent."

Others agreed that while the combination would provide added heft, the deal seemed to provide little growth momentum.

"There would be some short-term cost synergies but long term strategic benefit I don't see a lot of change from the status quo," said Michael Van Aelst, analyst with CIBC World Markets. "They both already have significant relationships with each other in North America, I don't see strategic benefit to this type of a merger."

Several obstacles remain that could prevent the merger from happening, the sources said. The most important perhaps is who would run the combined company.

Coors' founding family controls about one-third of the company's voting stock. But after four generations of being family run, the chain was disrupted recently by Chairman Peter Coors' (search) declaration that he would run for a U.S. Senate seat.

Molson's leadership status is equally in flux. The 218-year old company saw deputy chairman Ian Molson quit in June after a dispute with the company's chairman and his cousin, Eric Molson, splitting the Molson family in two.

Coors shares climbed $3.67, or 5 percent, to $76.69 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange on word of the talks, first reported in the Wall Street Journal. Molson shares climbed 90 cents to C$33.50 on the Toronto Stock Exchange.

Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2004, 12:43
I love that deal! Molson knows how to brew good beer, and Coors does not. Just my opinion.

The Reaper
07-19-2004, 15:48
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I love that deal! Molson knows how to brew good beer, and Coors does not. Just my opinion.

I think you are reversing the likely outcome.

Remember Lowenbrau?

TR

Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2004, 16:07
Originally posted by The Reaper
I think you are reversing the likely outcome.

Remember Lowenbrau?

TR

I remember the beer. What ever happened to it?

The Reaper
07-19-2004, 17:08
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I remember the beer. What ever happened to it?

Used to be German, bought out by Miller to be their premium, manufacture moved to the U.S., taste changed to Miller, brand killed (at least here in the U.S.). Brew probably knows more about it than I do.

What do you think Coors will do with Molsen?

TR

Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2004, 17:11
Originally posted by The Reaper
Used to be German, bought out by Miller to be their premium, manufacture moved to the U.S., taste changed to Miller, brand killed (at least here in the U.S.). Brew probably knows more about it than I do.

What do you think Coors will do with Molsen?

TR

Ugh. That would be just awful. :(