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Utah Bob
07-04-2009, 18:39
Just saw an AF Sgt singing the national Anthem at the Rockies game wearing what I assume is the new dress uni. Standing collar, no breast pockets, 9 button front.
Not attractive. Not at all. :eek:

AngelsSix
07-04-2009, 21:38
Did they look like these? One is the Marines, one is the "new" AF prototype

sf11b_p
07-05-2009, 03:14
Not everyone seems happy about it.

swpa19
07-05-2009, 05:56
The U.S.M.C blouse is tradition based. It is also a more considerate and fitting cut.

I dont recall the U.S.A.F. ever having a uniform with standing collar.

The A.F. Uni reminds me of the old E.German Volkspolizei. They would fold excess jacket materiel at the back of the uniform, then cinch it tightly with the belt. It looked good from the front.

Hostile0311
07-05-2009, 06:19
IMO it looks pretty ghetto, like a cheap sweatshop imitation of the USMC officers blouse. Will it serve as both the officers and enlisted alike dress blouse?

The Reaper
07-05-2009, 07:09
First bad copies of the Army tiger stripes, now a bad version of the Marines' Dress Blues.

Has General McPeake secretly been put back in charge of the Air Force again?

TR

lksteve
07-05-2009, 07:39
I dont recall the U.S.A.F. ever having a uniform with standing collar.WWI Army Air Corps...

swpa19
07-05-2009, 07:53
I dont recall the U.S.A.F. ever having a uniform with standing collar


WWI Army Air Corps...

The standing collar from the WW I tunic was worn by U.S. ARMYAir Service personell in the last 7 months of WWI.

The U.S.A.F. adapted U.S. Army uniforms (including the AF Blue Ike jacket) from 1949 to about 1964, when it adopted the "Bus Drivers" Dress Uniform.

Utah Bob
07-05-2009, 08:48
And the band has Daggers? (http://www.militarysabers.com/air-force-band-sword.html) DAGGERS? bet they won't be allowed near The One with those!:rolleyes:
What the hell is going on with the top brass of the airplane drivers association?:eek:
Reminds me of the nuttiness of the 70s when police departments started issuing blazers to replace uniforms because they looked friendlier and "less threatening".

Red Flag 1
07-05-2009, 09:12
Nearly every issue of the Air Force Times, over the past year, has had articles about uniforms, and uniform changes. One of the major complaints by USAF members has been all the recent uniform changes. All these recent , and proposed, uniform issues are flying in the very face of the word "uniform".

From the late 70's through the early 90's there was a stable uniform policy that made changes rarely and with seeming forethought. Today, that seems to gone out the window. The USAF seems to be thrashing about trying to figure out what it should look like; I have to wonder if this reflects a deeper crisis? Is the USAF becoming a democraticly run branch of our military?

I do not mean to bad-mouth the USAF. I retired from Tthe USAF in late 1990, and again after Desert Storm. I was proud of the USAF and am proud to have been a member of that branch. I do believe that the USAF mission to "fly and fight" remains intact. Those on the ground are among the best able to judge that. I do hope that the current uniform distraction gets put to bed soon; this thrashing about is a detractor and makes the USAF, a great arm of our military, look a bit silly.

My $.02.

:munchin

RF 1

Defender968
07-05-2009, 14:28
Nearly every issue of the Air Force Times, over the past year, has had articles about uniforms, and uniform changes. One of the major complaints by USAF members has been all the recent uniform changes. All these recent , and proposed, uniform issues are flying in the very face of the word "uniform".

Unfortunately the uniform changes that are occurring are not due to functionality or logical reasons, they're about ego. Some of the changes are AF Generals trying to make their mark on the AF, their legacy so to speak. Others are because they think these changes will make them warriors, not akin to giving all soldiers the black beret. What has always amused me is that they continue to disregard those out getting the work done and what they need. Like a "desert" uniform that was permanent press and twice as thick as a summer weight DCU, WTFO? They improve these new uniforms by placing 12 pen pockets on them and by making special buttons for headquarters poges, but at the same time won't let Airmen who go through Army schools like ranger or pathfinder to wear those badges, jealously anyone? It would be comical if it wasn't so sad.


I have to wonder if this reflects a deeper crisis? Is the USAF becoming a democraticly run branch of our military?

I don't wonder, you're spot on. It's a large part of why I left the AF after nearly 8 years (last year), you can look up some of my previous posts for the experience that junior officers are having today, as I've said before it's a broken organization.


Those on the ground among are best able to judge that. I do hope that the current uniform distraction gets put to bed soon; this thrashing about is a detractor and makes the USAF, a great arm of our military, look a bit silly.

Unfortunately I don't think it will, too many cooks in the kitchen, none of which has any clue what meal they're making or who they're cooking for.

Just my .02

Red Flag 1
07-05-2009, 14:47
The standing collar from the WW I tunic was worn by U.S. ARMYAir Service personell in the last 7 months of WWI.

The U.S.A.F. adapted U.S. Army uniforms (including the AF Blue Ike jacket) from 1949 to about 1964, when it adopted the "Bus Drivers" Dress Uniform.


"Dress Uniform"? Class A , or Mess Dress??


The USAF class A uniform was intended to be a "business" uniform, not a bus drivers!. Adornments were down played by USAF regulations. Corps devices were limited to medical, pilot and chaplins. Finish was also a satin finish including the eagle hat device. While I wore the USAF uniform, no civilian ever asked me what bus line I drove for, most just thanked me for my service and wished me the best.

RF 1

greenberetTFS
07-05-2009, 15:21
"Dress Uniform"? Class A , or Mess Dress??


The USAF class A uniform was intended to be a "business" uniform, not a bus drivers!. Adornments were down played by USAF regulations. Corps devices were limited to medical, pilot and chaplins. Finish was also a satin finish including the eagle hat device. While I wore the USAF uniform, no civilian ever asked me what bus line I drove for, most just thanked me for my service and wished me the best.

RF 1

I stand by Jim,he sounds PO'd!!!! ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

steel71
07-05-2009, 17:54
Just don't mess with the midnight chow halls. The Army grunts need a decent place to eat... LOL

swpa19
07-06-2009, 09:19
Out of respect of our sister service and the three nephews I have currently serving in the AF, I'll gladly retract the "Bus Driver" statement and offer my humble apologies.

I dont want to be the cause of some "Army Grunt" missing a good meal.

Red Flag 1
07-06-2009, 18:25
Out of respect of our sister service and the three nephews I have currently serving in the AF, I'll gladly retract the "Bus Driver" statement and offer my humble apologies.

I dont want to be the cause of some "Army Grunt" missing a good meal.



Thank you Amigo!

My best to your kin in AF blue, whatever shade it may be today:D.

RF 1

armymom1228
07-06-2009, 20:11
WWI Army Air Corps...

NO, they looked much better. I am sitting here looking at a photo of my father in his WWII Army Air Force dress uniform..

New uniform is so far past ugly it transcends into just plain fugly.. :confused:

Trip_Wire (RIP)
07-06-2009, 20:20
I spent some time in both the Air Force Reserve and the Washington Air Guard. I can recall being issued a Kaki uniform that consisted of shorts w/stocking that came up to the knees, a bush jacket and pith helmet as a tropical summer uniform. I thought that was a little strange. :rolleyes:

In looking at the pictures of the high collar belted blouse, I wasn't impressed. Indeed it looked like something out of the WW I era. I just can't imagine why anybody would choose this blouse for a dress uniform. I didn't like the loose material at the belted waist much either! At least the WW I blouses were worn with a leather 'Sam Brown.'

Trip_Wire (RIP)
07-06-2009, 20:25
NO, they looked much better. I am sitting her looking at a photo of my father in his WWII Army Air Force dress uniform..

New uniform is so far past ugly it transcends into just plain fugly.. :confused:

The WW 1 uniform, IMO wasn't as nice as the 'Pinks & Greens' of the WW II Officers uniforms, especially the Army Air Corps with their '50 Mission crush,' hat.

In fact, I wish the US Army would have chosen the 'Pinks & Greens' of that era. instead of the Blues.

Utah Bob
07-06-2009, 22:15
The WW 1 uniform, IMO wasn't as nice as the 'Pinks & Greens' of the WW II Officers uniforms, especially the Army Air Corps with their '50 Mission crush,' hat.

In fact, I wish the US Army would have chosen the 'Pinks & Greens' of that era. instead of the Blues.

The WWI uniform looked like a horse blanket unless it was privately tailored. But of course it was a dress/combat uniform. The Army never got rid of the dress blues for ceremonial/formal dress. Blue has been the official Army color since the revolution.
The Pinks & Greens did look sharp though.

But that new AF thing......butt ugly.:D

AngelsSix
07-07-2009, 18:06
The AF has big problems all across the board, much of it points directly to the individuals that have managed to work themselves into leadership positions. Many of them are incompetent and no one wants to question anyone in the politically correct military anymore, so it's like a bunch of sheep running around aimlessly. I, for one, am tired of it and intend to finish my last couple of years and get gone.

Richard
07-07-2009, 19:13
When things get boring - the bored need a distractor and repetetively seem to focus on inconsequential matters - like uniforms - your typical piss ant and june bug foofarah over nothing. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

afchic
07-08-2009, 08:28
My opinion, the new uniform discussion is a brilliant tactic by the AF leadership. :rolleyes: As it was when McPeak was at the helm.

The AF has huge problems right now. What better way to keep the rank and file preoccupied with something other than the true issues, than to give them another shitty looking uniform to complain about.

This was first being "tested" when Gen Mosley was the CSAF, pictures got leaked of him wearing it, and it wasn't flattering. I heard a couple of folks got fired over the "leak".


The new uniform board results came out a couple of weeks ago, and if I remember correctly, there was nothing about the new service dress in it.

Hopefully I will be retired before the new uniform becomes mandatory.

Utah Bob
07-08-2009, 08:53
The AF has big problems all across the board, much of it points directly to the individuals that have managed to work themselves into leadership positions. Many of them are incompetent and no one wants to question anyone in the politically correct military anymore, so it's like a bunch of sheep running around aimlessly. I, for one, am tired of it and intend to finish my last couple of years and get gone.

The same can be said about many organizations (and I assume you use the term "work themselves" loosely into leadership positions" loosely. );)
Right now it seems to be the AF's turn.
I had a police chief who would re-design the badge or give us a new hat when morale got low. He'd introduce the new shiny thing with appropriate fanfare and bombast. Unfortunately for him most of the troops were a tad more educated than the natives who sold Manhattan for some beads. He eventually got politically guillotined.


And nothing wrong with being mistaken for a bus driver. It's an honorable profession.:D:D

Monsoon65
07-08-2009, 15:31
Everyone in the AF is having fits about the new uniforms. No one liked the first model (the blue Tiger Stripes). And what was funny was that this was to be a "garrison only" uniform; if you deployed, you were to wear either woodland BDUs or DCUs.

When they came out with the ABU, I think the common thought was, "Hey, isn't that what the Army is wearing?"

AF actually had a good idea and put out a survey on the likes/dislikes of the ABU. Everyone wanted pockets on the sleeves, and no one liked the green boots. Guess what? No pockets and green boots.

I'm not impressed with either of the new Blues they are pimping to us now.

Red Flag 1
07-08-2009, 15:49
In the early 90's, around 1993, there was a class A uniform that was nearly the same as Naval class A's. Same shade of blue, no shoulder rank....piping on the cuff for rank. Was silly, and the officer corps had to pay out of pocket for the uniform change.

In the end, this all slight of hand. As afchic noted, there are tons of issues the USAF leadership has to come to grips with. Seeing a combat wing go uncertified for nuke violations last year is the tip of the iceberg. There was also a senior JAG officer that spent his entire career as a USAF Jag officer with no active license to practice, had been disbarred in Texas in fact.

I do hope the USAF can find reason to return to simpler times. It really is unfortunate to see all this going on, especially with a war to prosecute.

My $.02.

RF 1

Richard
07-08-2009, 16:41
In the early 90's, around 1993, there was a class A uniform that was nearly the same as Naval class A's. Same shade of blue, no shoulder rank....piping on the cuff for rank. Was silly,..

That was Tony McPeak - and his TAC-umsizing the Air Force initiatives. :rolleyes: He was not a popular guy around the USAFE/17th AF AO during those times.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Defender968
07-09-2009, 17:35
That was Tony McPeak - He was not a popular guy around the USAFE/17th AF AO during those times.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

He wasn't popular and still isn't around any part of the AF, up until the day I left less than a year ago I still heard MSgt's cursing him.

Red Flag 1
07-09-2009, 17:52
He wasn't popular and still isn't around any part of the AF, up until the day I left less than a year ago I still heard MSgt's cursing him.

Guess I was lucky. Things had not yet begun to spool out of control until I left..........hmmmmmmmm:cool:

RF 1

Sigaba
07-09-2009, 19:04
The USAF seems to be thrashing about trying to figure out what it should look like; I have to wonder if this reflects a deeper crisis?
RF-1

IMHO, this observation is brilliant. :lifter I've been shaking my head in green-eyed admiration since I read it.

Your musing could be a line of departure for a study linking cultural history, social history, aerospace history, and military history.

Unfortunately, this crisis is happening in the here and now, while the country is at war. Thus, while academic part of me wants sit back in contemplation of your observation, the civilian part of me is leaning forward with deep concern.