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Roguish Lawyer
06-03-2004, 17:14
What do you think about it? Are these people competent? Are they out of control? Tell your horror stories here or, if you want, talk about why you think airport security screeners are great Americans. LOL

The Reaper
06-03-2004, 17:31
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What do you think about it? Are these people competent? Are they out of control? Tell your horror stories here or, if you want, talk about why you think airport security screeners are great Americans. LOL

My, my, things must be slow down at the Barristers' Offices today.

I think we mainly hired a bunch of minimum wage personnel at an inflated salary.

Most of them strike me as lazy, ineffective, pompous bureaucrats with an overinflated sense of their own importance.

Frankly, shaking down a geriatric Medal of Honor winner and former Governor or a grandmother, while lacking the courage or ability to closely scrutinize young Arab men, particularly those from terrorist sponsoring countries strikes me as PC busy work, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

If I am out hunting bears, I would probably not track every deer, rabbit, and possum I run across.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

skipjack
06-03-2004, 17:34
Well, having gone through security a couple weekends ago... I would rate security a 2 out of 10.

This was at BWI in Baltimore. I noticed that the screeners were too social with other screeners. That they had a "keep moving..." attitude and that they were just unware of the situation.

I had to go through security 3 times since I was waiting for over an hour and the only book store was in another terminal. So I went through security for my terminal, then went back out my terminal through security of another terminal, then back out that terminal and back through security for my terminal. So, I spent a lot of time with the screeners....LOL.

Anyway, while I was going through with a single book (the one I just purchased) there was no one else in line, so I walked up to the screener and asked if I needed to put the book through the X-Ray machine. Since he was socializing, he didn't respond. So, I put the book through the X-Ray machine anyway and walked through the metal detector. After walking through the metal detector, without supervision, I was waiting for my book to pass through the X-Ray machine, since there was no one manning it. Once someone finally made it to the machine she looked at the book then said to me, "Is that all you had? You could've just walked through the metal detector!" At that point I wanted to jump over the machine and choke her. But, figured that might draw too much un-needed attention...lol.

So, the sum up... security still sucks!

IMHO

-skipjack

Roguish Lawyer
06-03-2004, 17:34
Originally posted by The Reaper
If I am out hunting bears, I would probably not track every deer, rabbit, and possum I run across.

You have a problem with deer, rabbit and possum? What about their civil liberties? LOL

Ambush Master
06-03-2004, 17:49
In the Industry, do you know what we say TSA stands for ??
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THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND !!!!

The Reaper
06-03-2004, 18:12
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
You have a problem with deer, rabbit and possum? What about their civil liberties? LOL

No, I said I was after bears.

Slow down and RTFQ, Sir.

TR

Roguish Lawyer
06-03-2004, 18:15
Originally posted by The Reaper
No, I said I was after bears.

Slow down and RTFQ, Sir.

TR

OK, FTPATD -- too much multitasking today.

You know what I meant, though: profiling bears is not nice, is it? LOL

The Reaper
06-03-2004, 18:23
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
OK, FTPATD -- too much multitasking today.

You know what I meant, though: profiling bears is not nice, is it? LOL

If I know bears killed my dogs, and I don't want them to do it again, what is the point in hunting the other animals right then?

Frankly, any bears I kill won't worry me too much, and if they decide to leave the area because I am putting them at risk, I really don't care.

Get my drift?

TR

Brother Rat
06-03-2004, 19:13
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What do you think about it? Are these people competent? Are they out of control? Tell your horror stories here or, if you want, talk about why you think airport security screeners are great Americans. LOL

Airport what? Security? Never seen it.:p

mffjm8509
06-03-2004, 19:17
I know a couple of guys that deployed last year, and slipped through the local (colorado springs) airport security with loaded 5.56 mags in thier carry on bags........they didnt realize it themselves until security in England caught it........

no confidence in them myeslf......

mp

Solid
06-04-2004, 03:58
Security in England seems to be better and, above all, expedient and polite. With a US passport the only place I get flak is at the damn immigration desk where I turn up with a big smile and a stamp that says 'citizen'.

Solid

Huey14
06-04-2004, 04:57
I've been through the AVSEC guys checkpoints here a number of times, not bad, was not impressed on one occassion though.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-04-2004, 08:13
I think airport security is a placebo for the American people. They are only checking small portions of the entire system (remember CARVER). Anyone that wants to take down a domestic airline has a variety of options. Anything man can devise can be bypassed and many of us have spent careers figuring out ways to do just that. Heretofore the bulk of airline security has been aimed at prevention of highjacks and that same mentality of finding that person(s) that is a threat before he/she boards the aircraft seems, on the surface, to still be guiding the effort. I am not totally convinced that an exhaustive and ongoing analysis of the threats are being conducted. There seems to be a sense of complacency that because we have "security" we are in fact "secure", but security has to be able to not only be in place to protect from the threat it has to be able to be able to detect the threat long before it can be used against the target. The long and the short of it is that it is not what security will do for you but what the lack of it will do to you.

Jack Moroney

Ghostrider
06-04-2004, 08:51
airport security=oxymoron w/HEAVY emphasis on moron.

Based on recent experience guarding a major airport during the New Year's week celebration, existing "security"is a band-aid measure meant to give the feeling of security. If it had been adequate or effective from the start there would have been no reason for my guys or me to be patrolling w/M 4's and M 9s. I won't even go into details on what I observed!:eek:

If you think about it, how could an agency that was formed so quickly properly screen and train effective employees? Overpaid and under-trained is a recipe for incompetence at best and sadly disaster in the worst case scenario.

Guy
06-04-2004, 09:47
You will definitely be waiting!

I need to go thru wearing shorts, t-shirts and flipflops and just carry my clothing on a hanger.

I was flying 1st Class from Amsterdam, already in the terminal ready to board and was pulled out of line.

DunbarFC
06-04-2004, 10:01
My dad who is 68 CONSTANTLY gets pulled out of line. It's become a joke that when he walks up to the gate he asks " Where should I go now ? "


I remember in the early post 9/11 hearings that one of the security firms at the airports said that basically they were competing with McDonald's for employees and that they were scraping the bottom of the barrell for what they used

Being from Boston and having a friends wife killed on flight 11, I'm for any changes they make

Granted a bloated useless government agency isn't what I have in mind but the pendulum had to swing to the opposite side. Now perhaps we can take a deep breath and come up with a real solution

The Reaper
06-04-2004, 10:23
Guy:

My checked baggage is well-worn black Cordura from Eagle, with AA Platinum tags and military business cards in my ID holders on the bags, with boots and uniforms inside, maybe a multi-tool and a folding knife inside, Zip Tie closures, and two times out of three when I recover my bags from the baggage claim these days, I have a blue TSA bust closure on my bag somewhere. Is an unarmed AD SF guy traveling on orders a real threat to security these days?

I am waiting for them to pull me out of line, when they do, I am going to take names and try to get some people fired.

Then they get angry because they want to unionize the screeners, and give them tenure like some other Federal employees.

Can you imagine if McDonalds gave their people a union and tenure? Do you think that would help?

I don't think so.

I overheard two baggage screeners talking out west, griping abou the fact that they were only making $38 an hour before overtime kicked in.

Incredible.

TR

DunbarFC
06-04-2004, 10:40
$38 an hour ?

Man what am I doing wrong................

The last time I was at Logan I was early getting my girlfriend from a flight and sat down to read a book near the TSA office or maybe it was the break room. Apparently a shift change was happening and ALL the screeners walked away from the gate area en masse to the office where they talked with what seemed to be there replacements for a few minutes and then the replacements walked over to the gates

In that time there was no one, and I mean no one watching the gate area.

This was the same terminal that American leaves from and the same terminal where Flight 11 left from

Made me glad I was just picking someone up that day

Guy
06-04-2004, 11:00
At $38/hr...I would have the majority of those fat f*cks standing in PT formation before there shift began.

At that rate...I'd work every holiday and you would never have to ask me to work overtime. Hell, I'd put a army cot in the breakroom with a poncho liner and tell them..."just call me when you need me or if someone calls in sick"!

No wonder airfares are so high!

lrd
04-10-2005, 06:42
TSA slated for dismantling
White House asks agency's director to step down

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
The Washington Post
Updated: 11:32 p.m. ET April 7, 2005

The Transportation Security Administration, once the flagship agency in the nation's $20 billion effort to protect air travelers, is now slated for dismantling.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7424844/

danjam
04-10-2005, 07:31
Not complaining, I get why they need to check however it was rather a site (people jaws hung) when flying out of Denver International, they had my 3 year old take her shoes off, stand with her legs/arms apart and wave the magic wand over her. Poor thing was so shocked she actually stood still. She was wearing loose clothes on, nothing you could hide on her... anyway, coming from where we do, we took it in good humour. By the way, she did not make the detectors ping at all, non of us did.

I am all for non-PC profiling.

504PIR
04-10-2005, 09:55
I'm always checked its, become a joke. All the fit, white guys with short to meduim hair, semi-well dressed who have multiple govt IDs, must fit some terrorist profile. In Amsterdam I was getting on KLM and because I had been in Iraq, Jordan and a visa for Afganistan-I had to talk to security as well.

My girlfriend who is a tall, attractive, thin blonde with big breasts IS ALWAYS SEARCHED!!

TSA is a bunch of fricking incompetents, who couldn't get a job at Burger King.

SP5IC
04-10-2005, 11:03
As bad as TSA is, they outclass the morons who proceeded them. One of those idiots walked off with a plastic tray containing my watch, ring & car keys. This was in Atlanta. Since I wear a DonJoy brace on my knee, I was isolated. I told the clerk who was watching me to stop that guy. Well, you know who caught shit. Me! There is some justice as those dipsticks are unemployed.

Trip_Wire (RIP)
04-10-2005, 12:56
As bad as TSA is, they outclass the morons who proceeded them. One of those idiots walked off with a plastic tray containing my watch, ring & car keys. This was in Atlanta. Since I wear a DonJoy brace on my knee, I was isolated. I told the clerk who was watching me to stop that guy. Well, you know who caught shit. Me! There is some justice as those dipsticks are unemployed.

I have to agree with the above statement on the ones who proceeded TSA. I also have to agree with Ambush Master's comment "THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND !!!!"

I get pulled out of line everytime I go through airport security. I have lots of metal in my left leg. I have a card from my doctor that says this; however, I don't even bother to show it. I do tell them, as soon as they send me to the people with the wand, but they keep running the wand over my leg and asking me if I have taken all the stuff out of my pockets and if they can feel my leg, etc.

On most occassions they ask me to take off my shoes. On a few of theses occassions there has been no chair for me to sit in when doing this. At my age, good balance on one leg, isn't one of my fine points. I have made them angry, whem I insisted on a chair before taking them off. This has gotten better lately there will be a chair.

Because I always get sent to the "Wand people" I now do not put my Rolex or Dive Computer watch or anything I care about in the plastic box, because if it's delayed or my wife is delayed it sits there for easy pickings for any theif to get. In one case they would not let my wife wait for my stuff, she had to leave the area. (To include carry on, etc.) on the other side of the line. The stuff just sat there, without anybody taking care of it. Normally, she will collect my stuff and secure it until I get through the gauntlet.

So far, TSA, has removed (stolen) an older Dive Computer watch that I had in checked luggage (LAX). On diving trips I NEVER put important/expensive things in my checkin luggage. (Regulators, Dive Computers and UW Cameras, etc.)

Also in my experience, like most things in life some airports seem to be better organized then others. The TSA employees seem to vary from airport to airport in age, ethnics/predominate race present and level of intelligence, in most cases this seems to be very low.

So far Dallas/Fortworth, Tx airport has been the most unorganized TSA operation I've been through.

Actually, I see no solution to this problem, given the people who take these jobs and the PC crap about no profiling. :mad:

AngelsSix
04-10-2005, 19:56
I have been frequently pulled out of line on several occasions by TSA in the past when I got a military fare on the airline. Since I stopped doing that, I no longer get the hassle; besides the AAA discount is better. Also, I have started to carry my sidearm on trips now. As soon as I get to the counter I let them know...I am always asked if I am LE.....I politely telll them military MP. No one really bothers me anymore......

The majority of folks working TSA were either kids (couldn't have been 21, some of them) or minorities. None of them were too bright, either. Why pay good folks good money when you can pay mediocre folks cheap to do the same job??

Razor
04-10-2005, 20:40
$38 an hour is cheap?

As an aside, I didn't realize military MPs were afforded carry privileges on airlines.

casey
04-10-2005, 21:41
Replacing TSA personnel with "security mannequins" would be just as effective and cheaper. I believe 99.9% of those assigned to checkpoints have no idea why they are removing your shoes, don't know the composition of Richard Rieds shoe bomb, nor understand any concept of why their magging and swipeing would be ineffective against similar TATP/HMTD IEDs.

Remember, Ramsi Yusef's device which killed the Japenese businessman would still get thru todays carry on screening process with no trouble.

Again, - seek the bomber - not the bomb . Its unlikely you'll find a good bomb.

NousDefionsDoc
04-10-2005, 21:47
I wonder how much the TSA experiment costs the tax payers? Think the TSA employees will pitch a fit if they have to go back to private sector?

lksteve
04-10-2005, 22:13
Think the TSA employees will pitch a fit if they have to go back to private sector?
depends...if they wind up at the local In-N-Out flipping burgers (for substantially less than $38/hr) i suspect they'll be sorely displeasured...

Gypsy
04-10-2005, 23:24
On most occassions they ask me to take off my shoes. On a few of theses occassions there has been no chair for me to sit in when doing this.

Just flew out of Midway/Chicago on Saturday (okay...I admit it was the first time I've flown since 9/11) and looks like they make everyone take off their shoes, no chairs for anyone to use until you went through the detector. I had open toed flat sandals on and even I was made to remove mine as well. But I did have my first In-N-Out Burger today. :lifter It was pretty good (Culver's is better) but the fries are awesome.

Smokin Joe
04-10-2005, 23:40
Just flew out of Midway/Chicago on Saturday (okay...I admit it was the first time I've flown since 9/11) and looks like they make everyone take off their shoes, no chairs for anyone to use until you went through the detector. I had open toed flat sandals on and even I was made to remove mine as well. But I did have my first In-N-Out Burger today. :lifter It was pretty good (Culver's is better) but the fries are awesome.

Next time get the double-double Animal style. :lifter

I'm glad to TSA go, they are nothing but a gaint pain in the ass. Everyone knows they are just a complete joke, that does very little to increase National Security.

AngelsSix
04-11-2005, 07:05
I put it in my carry on luggage, bu they always have to tag it "unloaded" before you get it on the plane...

Where is it written that they make $38 an hour??

Peregrino
04-11-2005, 10:41
I too will be glad to see them go. The Emperor has no clothes - and you will get your head chopped off for pointing that out. Just got back from CA last night. Every time I fly my tolerance for the agency and the "chicken littles" who are placated by it's mere existance decreases exponentially. It's a good thing I can't get a negative number that way. I'm guessing the more hassle and loss of freedom/dignity, the more secure we are, right? :confused: My .02 - Peregrino

jon448
04-11-2005, 12:10
I'm guessing the more hassle and loss of freedom/dignity, the more secure we are, right? :confused: My .02 - Peregrino

You would think that wold sort of make sense, if you're getting hassled and questioned about everythng that means security would be tighted. With these people its completely different. I mean everytime I go through an airport I get pulled aside by random security and questioned. I must look pretty damn suspecious, and the people who should be questioned in a more detailed way are whisked through security like they are royalty. Apperently it seems being PC these days is much much more important then actually being safer.

AngelsSix
04-15-2005, 22:35
Reports: Airport Screeners Still Do Poorly

25 minutes ago Politics - U. S. Congress


By LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Two upcoming government reports will say the quality of screening at airports is no better now than before the Sept. 11 attacks, according to a House member who has been briefed on the contents.

The Government Accountability Office the investigative arm of Congress and the Homeland Security Department's inspector general are expected to soon release their findings on the performance of Transportation Security Administration screeners.

"A lot of people will be shocked at the billions of dollars we've spent and the results they're going to see, which confirm previous examinations of the Soviet-style screening system we've put in place," Rep. John Mica (news, bio, voting record), R-Fla., told The Associated Press on Friday.

Mica chairs the House aviation subcommittee and was briefed on the reports.

The TSA won't comment on the specifics of the reports until they are released, said spokesman Mark Hatfield Jr.

"When the political posturing is over, rational people will see that American screeners today are the best we have ever had and that they are limited only by current technology and security procedures that are significantly influenced by privacy demands," Hatfield said.

Improving the ability of screeners to find dangerous items has been the goal since the government took over the task at about 450 airports in early 2002 and hired more than 45,000 workers. But earlier investigations showed problems persist.

On Jan. 26, Homeland Security's acting inspector general, Richard Skinner, testified that "the ability of TSA screeners to stop prohibited items from being carried through the sterile areas of the airports fared no better than the performance of screeners prior to Sept. 11, 2001."

Skinner told the Senate Homeland Security Committee that the reasons the screeners failed undercover audits had to do with training, equipment, management and policy.

A year ago, Clark Kent Ervin, then-inspector general of Homeland Security, told lawmakers the TSA screeners and privately contracted airport workers "performed about the same, which is to say, equally poorly."

When Congress created the TSA it stipulated that privately employed screeners be used at five airports to serve as a measuring stick for the federal screeners.

Screeners are tested by the inspector general's undercover agents, who try to smuggle fake weapons and bombs past security checkpoints. Their performance also is measured by the Threat Image Projection system, which puts images of threat objects on X-ray screens while the screeners are working and identifies whether they identify the threats.

Oregon Rep. Peter DeFazio (news, bio, voting record), the ranking Democrat on Mica's subcommittee, also was briefed on the two upcoming reports. He said they draw different conclusions about the relative performance of government screeners and those who work for private companies.

"The common finding is that no set of screeners, private nor public, is performing anywhere near the level I think we need," DeFazio said.

Screener performance won't be acceptable "until these people have state-of-the-art technology," he said.

DeFazio is especially critical of the X-ray machines used to screen passengers' baggage in most airports. Much better equipment is already available and in use on Capitol Hill and in the White House, he said.

The TSA, which did not immediately return telephone calls seeking comment, has said in the past that the tests used to measure screener performance are much more rigorous than they were before the Sept. 11 hijackings.

Before the attacks, the Threat Image Projection system only used images of about 200 items. Now the TSA uses more than 5,000 images, Hatfield said.

Screeners have been much more aggressive about seizing prohibited items than their predecessors, the private screeners who worked for companies employed by airlines. Each month, screeners take from passengers about a half-million things, including 160,000 knives, 2,000 box cutters and 70 guns.

___

Sweetbriar
04-16-2005, 09:31
I don't know if its American political correctness or what, but the thing that always gets me about the Israelis (who do an excellent job) and the Americans (who don't do so well) is not the technology they use. It's the people and their people skills. The screeners in Israel are extremely interactive with passengers - always asking questions and looking at you full in the face at every turn. They have great technology, but those people own their airport. Every one is nice and respectful, far more so than in America, yet the entire atmosphere is that they are determined to protect their passengers and their country.

Perhaps instead of trying to fix all airport screening at once, we should start with only one airport and and transform the screening and passenger interaction there first. As Americans we like to do things big and fast. You can't grow people skills by throwing money at it. If you only transformed one airport's operation at a time every six weeks, still, after almost three years you'd at least have the major international airports working better. JMO.