View Full Version : Obama May Not be a US Citizen?
Lawsuit demanding a teste copy of his birth certificate filed in court.
www.obamacrimes.com
If this is true, it will turn the Presidential Race on it's head!
:rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I believe there is another thread with this assertion. It is quite the tinfoil hat question, but then again, Obama has tied up both lawsuits that have been brought. Apparently, taking legal action to tie up these lawsuits until after the election is much easier than providing a birth certificate to a neutral third-party? :confused:
longrange1947
10-17-2008, 12:04
And that is what does not make sense.
The TRUTH is always answered simply.....
If he were truly a natural born citizen, then a truthful direct answer would be simple.............
His feet dragging speaks volumes......
My Dad was born in Oklahoma and the doctor wasn't able to register his birth until several weeks after the fact. My grandmother recorded his birthdate in the family bible which contains the birthdates of all his siblings. After his father's death when he was five, the family moved back to Texas where my grandmother remarried and the family moved to California. My father never had a birth certificate, served in the PTO in the Navy in WW2, and always celebrated his birthday as recorded in the family bible, his school and college records, his 'official' military records, his SSA records, etc.
Several years after I retired and moved to Texas, my father came to visit. We took a 'road trip' to visit some of our Texas relatives and the town of his birthplace--Wewoka--and then on to Oklahoma City where we obtained an 'official copy' of his birth certificate as registered by the doctor; the date of birth was 8 days later than the date my grandmother had written in the bible.
My father is deceased and the date of birth as posted on his death certificate is the one claimed by my grandmother and taken from my father's SSA files, and is not the one from his 'official' birth certificate from Oklahoma.
Makes me wonder what foofarah the e-snoops and political tin hats would come up with on him if he was the one running for office today. :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
dividebyzero
10-18-2008, 18:47
My Dad was born in Oklahoma and the doctor wasn't able to register his birth until several weeks after the fact. My grandmother recorded his birthdate in the family bible which contains the birthdates of all his siblings. After his father's death when he was five, the family moved back to Texas where my grandmother remarried and the family moved to California. My father never had a birth certificate, served in the PTO in the Navy in WW2, and always celebrated his birthday as recorded in the family bible, his school and college records, his 'official' military records, his SSA records, etc.
Several years after I retired and moved to Texas, my father came to visit. We took a 'road trip' to visit some of our Texas relatives and the town of his birthplace--Wewoka--and then on to Oklahoma City where we obtained an 'official copy' of his birth certificate as registered by the doctor; the date of birth was 8 days later than the date my grandmother had written in the bible.
My father is deceased and the date of birth as posted on his death certificate is the one claimed by my grandmother and taken from my father's SSA files, and is not the one from his 'official' birth certificate from Oklahoma.
Makes me wonder what foofarah the e-snoops and political tin hats would come up with on him if he was the one running for office today. :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I feel like this post is extremely worthy of note. Without tipping my hand as to who I'm planning on voting for, it certainly makes me wish that BOTH parties would have a more substantive discussion of the issues facing this country rather than continuing to employ personal attacks that at best cheapen political discourse and at worst absolutely destroy it.
dividebyzero
10-18-2008, 19:12
what are the issues?
A worldwide financial crisis, how best to utilize American power, education, etc? I hear an awful lot of platitudes and rhetoric from each candidate in the debates, but very little substantial information.
Both candidates have been asked questions about all of those issues...
They both prefer to dance around an honest answer, so without a straight answer we may as well entertain ourselves with more entertaining issues like John McCains mavericky VP, Obamas sleeper cell connections with domestic terrorists, Joe Biden's oratory skills or McCains poor grades at the academy or even why Coca-Cola took "new coke" off the market.
...and since hanging chads seem to be a bigger voter fraud issue than the straight arrow practices of ACORN I am not really sure what else we should discuss.
...how 'bout them Phillies?
Bill Harsey
10-18-2008, 19:24
Perhaps this has already been discussed here and NO I did not try and use the search function first but speaking of documentation relating to the job applied for...
...after birth certificates how would he do getting a security clearance especially after admitting who he has kept company with?
A worldwide financial crisis, how best to utilize American power, education, etc? I hear an awful lot of platitudes and rhetoric from each candidate in the debates, but very little substantial information.
As I recall, Chairman Bernanke required a quick briefing to understand the rudiments of CDOs. They, along with other derivatives, lie at the heart of the financial problem. Do the candidates have a deep understanding of the issue? Do the voters? If not, how can worthwhile dialog be pursued?
How best to utilize American power? Perhaps this includes military power. Are the voters prepared to educate themselves in depth on the issues?
The same applies to education. We speak of standards and accountability; but within the field of education, current research suggests underlying problems with existing measures. Is the public aware of the literature? Do the voters understand (and have access to) current research?
So...what substantive information do we expect from the candidates? And, with a few exceptions duly noted, who would understand it, even if they did provide it?
I think the simplicity of the quest & answer:
Q: show us your birth certificate
A: here is the original
Begs to ask,, why spend $$$$$ on lawyers to suppress,,
when the answer can be FREE???
This needs watching,, but at arms length.
Personally,, I keep my tin foil for the BBQ,, don't want to waste it..
alright4u
10-19-2008, 07:36
I propose all seeking public office have to pass a NAC plus a full BI and be subjected to the suitability evaluation board for any alleged misconduct.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081025/D941NCJG0.html
PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's qualifications to be president.
U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick on Friday night rejected the suit by attorney Philip J. Berg, who alleged that Obama was not a U.S. citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency. Berg claimed that Obama is either a citizen of his father's native Kenya or became a citizen of Indonesia after he moved there as a boy.
Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother and a Kenyan father. His parents divorced and his mother married an Indonesian man.
Internet-fueled conspiracy theories question whether Obama is a "natural-born citizen" as required by the Constitution for a presidential candidate and whether he lost his citizenship while living abroad.
Surrick ruled that Berg lacked standing to bring the case, saying any harm from an allegedly ineligible candidate was "too vague and its effects too attenuated to confer standing on any and all voters."
troubleshter77
10-25-2008, 23:18
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
troubleshter77,
Last time I checked the US Constitution is hardly a superficial matter. You do not need to be a Natural Born citizen to be a Senator, you do however, have to meet this requirement for POTUS. All BHO would have to do is the exact SAME thing McCain did when this SAME question was asked of him. Funny how the media wasn't downplaying this matter when McCain was the one in question :confused:
- Doc Z
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
OK, fine! What agency is tasked with vetting candidates running for the House, Senate or POTUS? Which candidate has been deemed unfit by that agency? I'm just curious.
Pat
LongTabSigO
10-26-2008, 05:44
The only reason why this rumor/allegation/serious question has festered so long is that the BHO Campaign refuses to actually produce the document.
Methinks they protest too much.
One would think that this sort of thing is vetted on hour one/day one of filing your "intent to seek election" application process. And yet, the question remains...
The lack of media curiosity about this, coupled with the fact that Mr. McCain actually had to get a court ruling to verify his eligibility cause me to at least wonder about the validity of BHO's quals.
The Reaper
10-26-2008, 09:13
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
Do you presume to lecture us on politics, and what to believe or not believe?
How long was it before Hillary released her financial records?
If this was as plain as you seem to think, then he would have already delivered the documentation. Not a conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of unanswered questions here that Obama seems to be ducking, and I would like to see them answered before the election. I do not want to make someone the leader of the free world only to find that he is unqualified. Frankly, I do not want to see President Joe Biden either.
TR
Do you presume to lecture us on politics, and what to believe or not believe?
How long was it before Hillary released her financial records?
If this was as plain as you seem to think, then he would have already delivered the documentation. Not a conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of unanswered questions here that Obama seems to be ducking, and I would like to see them answered before the election. I do not want to make someone the leader of the free world only to find that he is unqualified. Frankly, I do not want to see President Joe Biden either.
TR
T'is the Rub, who is this man, Barak Obama?
troubleshter77
10-26-2008, 12:12
TR:
Do you presume to lecture us on politics, and what to believe or not believe?
Rather, it seems more expedient at this point in the discussion as to who will be the next POTUS, to focus on HOW the policies of BO or JM which if we are fortunate, (as a nation), will serve to extricate us from this quagmire that we presently find ourselves as a nation.
The realities of our collective existence have LITTLE to do with what "we" as soldiers and men believe. Fore, at the level at which we “operate” policy decisions have already been established, rationalized, and justified and made. “We” are those that “actualize” and manifest the dogma associated with those “political decisions”. I would not presume to attempt the fruitless.
The next POTUS MUST, be a man of keen Intellect, balanced passion, developed common sense, and determination enough to rise above the partisan nonsense that has kept this nation deadlocked in policies that have stunted our growth on several levels. I leave it to the voters to decide which one of the two candidates is better prepared to move this great nation truly forward.
IMHO debating the “validity” BO’s birth certificate seems a little futile at this point in the process.
I think Ralph Waldo Emerson says it better than I could ever so I leave you with this...
"Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.":):):):)
...will serve to extricate us from this quagmire that we presently find ourselves as a nation......
Which "quagmire" are you talking about?
Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
TR:
IMHO debating the “validity” BO’s birth certificate seems a little futile at this point in the process.
Might be futile, but if true it would be an outright assault on the US Constitution and US Law, which shows less than honrable intentions on his part and a flaw in character IMHO.
Subversion of that type if allowed would make the US Constitution and The Bill of Rights meaningless paper and ink.
As many have stated, He could have put this to rest in short order and he has not.
blue02hd
10-26-2008, 13:19
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
Troubleshter77, now let me help YOU. This thread, if read from start to finish is more about the lack of a straight answer to a simple question. Now, I know you are experienced enough to understand that people will disagree from time to time and that disagreement is a good thing, but lets not take an authoritive tone with friends in here. I am quite certain the gentlemen in here have an excellent grasp of their capacity, and that is just plain rude to suggest otherwise. PERIOD. Considering the audience that you have here, it might not be received well if you are to inform us as to what is worth pondering and what is not. Respect is a funny thing in here, it is freely given, but once lost, almost impossible to get back.
That being said, you can quote Emerson, Thoreau, and Charlie Brown for all the good it will do, the primary question this thread has produced remains: Why fight this in Court?
As for your reverence of the Senate, does the bridge at Chappaquiddick ring any bells? It seems if you look, the Senate has a track record of overlooking some pretty signifcant details.
Just my 02. Period.
troubleshter77
10-26-2008, 14:12
Gents:
Don't get me wrong. Heated discussion sometimes serves to clear the cobwebs.
And the last time I checked we are in various "quagmires" both at home and abroad because of the "cobwebs" clogging up the "cerebral functioning of some of our most powerful "elected" leaders. My intention is not to offend or sound condescending; however if my comments offend or are interpreted as such I offer this; perception is a wonderful thing when balanced with reason and intellect.
Quite frankly I agree with most if not all of the points made regarding "verification". It seems however that this particular discussion will not have an effect on or changethe results of the election. As for issue of the character BHO I still contend that his place of birth has been resolved long before his candidacy got to this point.
:D:D:D
Well said, Paslode.
The questions raised on this thread and elsewhere on this forum are especially relevant since the Democrats have hammered at the Bush administration for the alleged overuse of 'executive privilege'. If the Democrats can argue that an administration should turn over documents when asked, what does it say of a candidate who has made a habit of secrecy and obstructionism before he's even taken the oath of office?
One can contrast Senator Obama's stance with that of President Reagan who, upon leaving office, wanted every piece of paper in the White House declassified and immediately available for public inquiry.
And as Hollis points out, the central question remains: who is Senator Obama?
Might be futile, but if true it would be an outright assault on the US Constitution and US Law, which shows less than honrable intentions on his part and a flaw in character IMHO.
Subversion of that type if allowed would make the US Constitution and The Bill of Rights meaningless paper and ink.
As many have stated, He could have put this to rest in short order and he has not.
Red Flag 1
10-26-2008, 16:11
TR:
Rather, it seems more expedient at this point in the discussion as to who will be the next POTUS, to focus on HOW the policies of BO or JM which if we are fortunate, (as a nation), will serve to extricate us from this quagmire that we presently find ourselves as a nation.
The realities of our collective existence have LITTLE to do with what "we" as soldiers and men believe. Fore, at the level at which we “operate” policy decisions have already been established, rationalized, and justified and made. “We” are those that “actualize” and manifest the dogma associated with those “political decisions”. I would not presume to attempt the fruitless.
The next POTUS MUST, be a man of keen Intellect, balanced passion, developed common sense, and determination enough to rise above the partisan nonsense that has kept this nation deadlocked in policies that have stunted our growth on several levels. I leave it to the voters to decide which one of the two candidates is better prepared to move this great nation truly forward.
IMHO debating the “validity” BO’s birth certificate seems a little futile at this point in the process.
I think Ralph Waldo Emerson says it better than I could ever so I leave you with this...
"Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.":):):):)
" we as soldiers and men"?
"The next POTUS must be a man"?
You seem to be removing women for some reason. I did not see any military service mentioned in your bio.
Your claim to be convinced BHO was born a US citizen is based on what solid evidence that you have seen, and can reproduce.?
Nice Emerson quote; just how does it fit here? The truth is what the truth is, no doubt. So what is the truth here?
RF 1
..And the last time I checked we are in various "quagmires" both at home and abroad because of the "cobwebs" clogging up the "cerebral functioning of some of our most powerful "elected" leaders....
This is getting old. I asked you what "quagmire" you were talking about. Now you say we are in various "quagmires".
Now once again, what are you calling a "quagmire"? And since you brought it up - who do you think put us in the "quagmires"?
Not a U.S. citizen, but to me it's plain and simple - being born outside the U.S. would immediately disqualify a presidential candidate from the race. What really throws me off is that Obama hasn't been FORCED to provide this info to both the gov. and the public by now.
Though not constructive to the argument, I feel this image is appropriate for Troubleshooter.
Blitzzz (RIP)
10-26-2008, 17:21
It's a good thing we're not talking religion too.
As to the Obama birth, the nly thing representing a birth certificate was a copy and it was "doctored".
The Quagmire we suffer today began some 40 years ago with Dems congress and senate with the exception of 4 years just recently. God fobid A democratic House, Senate and President> God bless us all. :eek: Blitzzz
Not trying to start anything but I also hear from a Quiet Professional that he also could not get into the army because of his background.
The Reaper
10-26-2008, 17:46
Not trying to start anything but I also hear from a Quiet Professional that he also could not get into the army because of his background.
Substance abuser, Yes.
Criminal associates, Yes.
Member of organizations advocating the violent overthrow of the US government, Yes.
If he could get a clearance, it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork.
TR
Red Flag 1
10-26-2008, 18:29
Substance abuser, Yes.
Criminal associates, Yes.
Member of organizations advocating the violent overthrow of the US government, Yes.
If he could get a clearance, it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork.
TR
After watching our present Congress in action, I am begining to wonder if serving in Congress would be a dq for a clearence.
RF 1
http://patdollard.com/2008/10/philip-j-berg-is-appealing-his-obama-case-to-the-scotus/
http://patdollard.com/2008/10/philip-j-berg-is-appealing-his-obama-case-to-the-scotus/
Interesting.......
According to Judge Surrick, we the people have no right to police the eligibility requirements under the U.S. Constitution.
What's that old saying......."People should not be afraid of their Governments...Governments should be afraid of the people."
Here's wishing Mr. Berg, the best of Luck.
Defender968
10-26-2008, 21:28
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator.
Troubleshter77, there is nothing more legitimate than asking for simple verification that he is a US citizen, you may be content to believe that it's been vetted but I as a citizen have a right IMHO to see the proof especially when there is a question about it. With the exception of deploying I have never resided outside the US, yet to get a security clearance for my current military position as well as a clearance for a Federal LEO job I've applied for I must PROVE citizenship and have it and my background investigated. With that being said I can in 3.7 seconds produce an original notarized copy of my birth certificate issued within days of my birth, and as I said I'm not in the most powerful and exclusive club on the planet, why can someone as powerful as a senator not figure out how to get a notarized copy and provide it to put this quote on quote rumor to rest as others have suggested.
Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
As for the above statement, regardless to the merit of the question, if you don't want to "ponder" it then don't, but don't presume to tell others what they should or should not think or talk about, that is a matter of freedom, and is a matter for which each member of the military has sacrificed for, many of whom, especially members of this board, have sacrificed greatly. I assure you that any assaults on freedom are not something I and others who wear this nation’s military uniforms take lightly, be they foreign or domestic, so tread lightly because intended or not you're coming across wrong.
Lastly while you can think and say anything you want, as guaranteed by the constitution that I took an oath to defend, I would suggest you watch your tone and analyze your audience before hitting submit reply, because while freedom of speech is guaranteed your membership on this board is not. So you don’t interpret it as such I’m not threatening anything, I’m a guest here as are you, I've just been here a little longer, consider it a little free advice from one cop to another.
It occurs to me that actions by BO have guaranteed that his citizenship - and hence his constitutional eligibility to be president - will always be open to question. Some portion of the population will always question his legitimacy, no matter what he does now. Even if he produced all the documentation first thing in the morning, the question would remain - were the documents quickly faked?
Whatever the case may be, his actions have (in my opinion) undermined his future leadership potential to some degree. Since either he or his advisers must surely recognize this, I cannot help but wonder at his fitness to lead. If he faces a crises, as predicted by several, he will do so under a cloud of doubt. A small cloud, perhaps - but a cloud nonetheless.
I begin to think that his victory, should it occur, will be quite divisive. That's unfortunate, because I think we will need wise leadership over the next four years.
Why seal your birth certificate? How many times have we shown our birth certificate when applying for a job?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELECTION 2008
Obama's birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Gov. Linda Lingle, R-Hawaii
HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.
The governor's office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.
"It does not appear that Dr. Corsi is within any of these categories of persons with a direct and tangible interest in the birth certificate he seeks," wrote Roz Makuala, manager of constituent services in the governor's office, in an e-mailed response to a WND request seeking the information.
Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or "registrant" according to the legal description from the governor's office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.
(Story continues below)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
Substance abuser, Yes.
Criminal associates, Yes.
Member of organizations advocating the violent overthrow of the US government, Yes.
If he could get a clearance, it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork.
TR
TR Sir,
Hope to not get flamed for asking this, but have thought about the above post since it was written...
How could an individual that is a "No-Go" for Armed Forces Service, due to security clearance issues, be CIC of said Armed Forces?
Maybe I am missing something here...:confused: & :mad:
Holly
The Reaper
10-27-2008, 12:25
TR Sir,
Hope to not get flamed for asking this, but have thought about the above post since it was written...
How could an individual that is a "No-Go" for Armed Forces Service, due to security clearance issues, be CIC of said Armed Forces?
Maybe I am missing something here...:confused: & :mad:
Holly
The same way he can receive sexual favors from a very junior subordinate, in his government office, and not be prosecuted.
This is a violation of several articles of the UCMJ, as well as sexual harrassment laws.
Compare that to the treatment of conservative figures with scandals (or alleged scandals) in their closets.
If the media doesn't make an issue of it, most of the population does not care.
TR
Team Sergeant
10-27-2008, 12:31
This is getting old. I asked you what "quagmire" you were talking about. Now you say we are in various "quagmires".
Now once again, what are you calling a "quagmire"? And since you brought it up - who do you think put us in the "quagmires"?
He must be taking notes from the obama camp and will not answer a "direct" question.
troubleshter77,
It's time for you tread a little softer hence we will find you a new home. Your talk of quagmires irritates the living hell out of me, do you even know what it means? And if so please do tell us to what quagmires you are referring to?
You'll not be asked again.
Team Sergeant
The same way he can receive sexual favors from a very junior subordinate, in his government office, and not be prosecuted.
This is a violation of several articles of the UCMJ, as well as sexual harrassment laws.
Compare that to the treatment of conservative figures with scandals (or alleged scandals) in their closets.
If the media doesn't make an issue of it, most of the population does not care.
TR
TR Sir,
This concept is just hard to grasp. Come on America!
WTH?! :mad:
Holly
longrange1947
10-27-2008, 19:28
I am beginning to believe that Trouble whatever is an Obamanation person that runs around throwing crap into the game to confuse and obscure. Take a look at his totally outlandish and egoistical quote that something is beyond our little brains to doubt. oh yes PERIOD. And do not forget the lifters. :mad:
Personally I just ignore those type declarations as Bulls**t PERIOD! :lifter :D
troubleshter77
10-27-2008, 20:26
My, My, I seem to have it several nerves. Quite unintentional I assure you gentlemen.
Spirited discourse is fundamental to full appreciation of, "freedom of Speech.
I appreciate all of the "advice" given from new found collegial intellects and fellow warriors. In earnest my intention is not to irritate; however I learned early in my career that if everybody is happy and you haven't pissed someone off today than, perhaps you are doing something wrong and clearly have not done a good job of preserving anybodys freedoms; especially ones own.
At the end of the discussion I fully agree that documents should be authenticated. Including that of the next POTUS. Period.
Yes indeed a spirited and passionate debate. You are the caliber of gentlemen that this country needs more of. Unfortunately, MEN of true character and Integrity are rare indeed. Warriors of Integrity are indeed rarer...
As for the reference to being an OBAMAnic or however it was couched.... Politics and political choices especially Presidential choices are CONFIDENTIAL.
As you were Gents....
How about them Giants?????? :):):)
troubleshter77
10-27-2008, 20:37
I am beginning to believe that Trouble whatever is an Obamanation person that runs around throwing crap into the game to confuse and obscure. Take a look at his totally outlandish and egoistical quote that something is beyond our little brains to doubt. oh yes PERIOD. And do not forget the lifters. :mad:
Personally I just ignore those type declarations as Bulls**t PERIOD! :lifter :D
Longrange1947
Respect for you Sir, Nothing but Respect. PERIOD.
blue02hd
10-27-2008, 20:38
Troubleshter77
"De Oppresso Liber"
???????
if everybody is happy and you haven't pissed someone off today than, perhaps you are doing something wrong and clearly have not done a good job of preserving anybodys freedoms; especially ones own.
:):):)
Troubleshooter, I may be out of my lane on this post and if that's the case, I apologize to the admin board. You joined this site and immediately start posting with complete arrogance.
Many of us joined PS.com for the information and the chance to receive guidance/experience from the type of warriors that we might not otherwise have a chance to meet. At least that is the case with me. Since I was joining a site that had its own culture, I read for months without offering my opinion on a thing. Once I felt I had the "pulse" I started offering my thoughts or news that I thought would add to PS.
You, however, speak without knowledge and talk down to the members here. If there is something about your background that justifies you being pompous, then please add it to your profile so we will all know that we should defer to you. :rolleyes:
I'm done.
My, My, I seem to have it several nerves. Quite unintentional I assure you gentlemen.
Spirited discourse is fundamental to full appreciation of, "freedom of Speech.
I appreciate all of the "advice" given from new found collegial intellects and fellow warriors. In earnest my intention is not to irritate; however I learned early in my career that if everybody is happy and you haven't pissed someone off today than, perhaps you are doing something wrong and clearly have not done a good job of preserving anybodys freedoms; especially ones own.
At the end of the discussion I fully agree that documents should be authenticated. Including that of the next POTUS. Period.
Yes indeed a spirited and passionate debate. You are the caliber of gentlemen that this country needs more of. Unfortunately, MEN of true character and Integrity are rare indeed. Warriors of Integrity are indeed rarer...
As for the reference to being an OBAMAnic or however it was couched.... Politics and political choices especially Presidential choices are CONFIDENTIAL.
As you were Gents....
How about them Giants?????? :):):)
Fellow Warriors? Your profile does not list you as having ever Served in the military.... Have You?
You are a guest here in our house and we do love a good exchange of Ideas but NEVER TELL US "AS YOU WERE" You are not our CDR of SGM you are a guest.
I would recommend that you reread our post and head our recommendations.
blue02hd
10-28-2008, 03:55
troubleshter77,
You have been asked direct questions by PSM, TR, Pete, SF BHT, and have even drawn the attention of Team Sgt. Perhaps you should consider answering those questions before posting again. It is becoming more and more apparent that your decision to leave these direct questions unanswered goes hand in hand with the topic of this thread.
I have taken exception with your use of the motto "De Oppresso Liber". If you like, I can show you some Air Soft sites that would appreciate your ease of the use of the Special Forces motto, but it's use here will be questioned unless you can demonstrate your qualifications.
You have the freedom to say or do whatever you want. Your problem in here is that you are being called out for it, and you are failing to respond. This says volumes about you. I am just wondering how long TS and TR will put up with it.
greenberetTFS
10-28-2008, 15:07
troubleshter77,
You have been asked direct questions by PSM, TR, Pete, SF BHT, and have even drawn the attention of Team Sgt. Perhaps you should consider answering those questions before posting again. It is becoming more and more apparent that your decision to leave these direct questions unanswered goes hand in hand with the topic of this thread.
I have taken exception with your use of the motto "De Oppresso Liber". If you like, I can show you some Air Soft sites that would appreciate your ease of the use of the Special Forces motto, but it's use here will be questioned unless you can demonstrate your qualifications.
You have the freedom to say or do whatever you want. Your problem in here is that you are being called out for it, and you are failing to respond. This says volumes about you. I am just wondering how long TS and TR will put up with it.
blue02hd,
+1
GB TFS :munchin
Bill Harsey
10-28-2008, 19:51
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
trouble,
That last line bothers me. The gentlemen whom you are addressing make a living by questioning simple things that may have complicated or catastrophic consequences for not just themselves but this nation and others.
Gentlemen let me help you. This MAN belongs to the most EXCLUSIVE club on the Planet. THE United States, (of America), SENATE.
Do you really think he would have gotten this far on a legitimate course for POTUS if his "pedigree" and "birth right" were not ALREADY thoroughly, VETTED. The man is a UNITED STATES CITIZEN by BIRTH and United States Senator. Check the motivation; motivating this pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering.
This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.
:lifter:lifter:lifter:lifter
I can remember people saying no one would ever dare attack US soil, we're to far away, no one has the capacity, we have security to prevent attacks etc...etc...etc. Right, wrong or indifferent those that choose not to doubt, those that choose ingnore, those that refuse to imagine, those that think it could never happen, they are the ones lacking capacity.
H.G. Wells, Gene Rodenbury, MLK, Hitler, Pol Pot and Osama Bin Laden.....all had the ability to see what others couldn't, and many said it could never happen, yet many of those dreams have come true.
Never say it can't happen. All it takes is imagination and a desire.
There are no qualifications that merit anyone being a pompous ass. Troubleshooter77 should take a little lesson in humility.
troubleshtr77,
You have asserted several times in your replies that you did not mean any disrespect, yet your choice of words and overall tone suggest otherwise e.g. "As you were gents...", "My, My, I seem to have it several nerves [sic]", "This one is beyond your capacity to seriously, question. PERIOD.", etc. The very fact that you do not seem to see the arrogance that is implied in your posts, intentional or not, speaks of your character. In short, some humility would better suit you.
You also seem to be backpedaling. In your later posts you said that you agree "documents should be authenticated", yet your first reply to this thread states that this subject is a "pointless line of inquiry and find smoething else to spend time Pondering [sic]". Which is it?
Sir, I suggest that the tone of your posts is not working for you.
"Pissing" people off is not a sustainable tactic but a form of conduct that appears to be part of a larger maladaptive behavioral pattern.
Your statement of your intent does not square with your conduct. It is my observation that you are intent on controlling conversations rather than contributing positively.
You are getting positive guidance on how you might acquit yourself better on this forum, in particular from Defender, and especially from the QPs. To refer to this guidance as "'advice'" suggests you are not going to make the most of the opportunity.
"As you were gents" is simply condescending. Your continued refusal to answer all of the direct questions placed by the QPs is outrageous.
My, My, I seem to have it several nerves. Quite unintentional I assure you gentlemen.
Spirited discourse is fundamental to full appreciation of, "freedom of Speech.
I appreciate all of the "advice" given from new found collegial intellects and fellow warriors. In earnest my intention is not to irritate; however I learned early in my career that if everybody is happy and you haven't pissed someone off today than, perhaps you are doing something wrong and clearly have not done a good job of preserving anybodys freedoms; especially ones own.
At the end of the discussion I fully agree that documents should be authenticated. Including that of the next POTUS. Period.
Yes indeed a spirited and passionate debate. You are the caliber of gentlemen that this country needs more of. Unfortunately, MEN of true character and Integrity are rare indeed. Warriors of Integrity are indeed rarer...
As for the reference to being an OBAMAnic or however it was couched.... Politics and political choices especially Presidential choices are CONFIDENTIAL.
As you were Gents....
How about them Giants?????? :):):)
Team Sergeant
10-29-2008, 10:51
My, My, I seem to have it several nerves. Quite unintentional I assure you gentlemen.
Spirited discourse is fundamental to full appreciation of, "freedom of Speech.
I appreciate all of the "advice" given from new found collegial intellects and fellow warriors. In earnest my intention is not to irritate; however I learned early in my career that if everybody is happy and you haven't pissed someone off today than, perhaps you are doing something wrong and clearly have not done a good job of preserving anybodys freedoms; especially ones own.
At the end of the discussion I fully agree that documents should be authenticated. Including that of the next POTUS. Period.
Yes indeed a spirited and passionate debate. You are the caliber of gentlemen that this country needs more of. Unfortunately, MEN of true character and Integrity are rare indeed. Warriors of Integrity are indeed rarer...
As for the reference to being an OBAMAnic or however it was couched.... Politics and political choices especially Presidential choices are CONFIDENTIAL.
As you were Gents....
How about them Giants?????? :):):)
You refuse to answer any questions put forth and instead you have decided to make an ass out of yourself.
Not here little man, not on these boards. We don't take to kindly to internet trolls.
Now you are gone.
As NDD would say, "Have a very SF day".
Team Sergeant
Bill Harsey
10-29-2008, 11:54
Team Sergeant, Thank you.
Back to the discussion, just heard over the radio Uncle Rush say that the governor of Hawaii has sealed Senator Obama's birth records.
The senator must have done more in the islands than just visit his sick grandmother.
The Reaper
10-29-2008, 12:14
Team Sergeant, Thank you.
Back to the discussion, just heard over the radio Uncle Rush say that the governor of Hawaii has sealed Senator Obama's birth records.
The senator must have done more in the islands than just visit his sick grandmother.
Not to put on my tinfoil hat, but the thought occured to me that burning almost two days of late election campaigning to visit a sick racist grandmother smacked of incredible arrogance, or something more going on than meets the eye. Hawaii is one of the most solidly Dim states in the Union, and needed no campaigning or bolstering. Good to know that the Dims have locked that issue down. Wonder if the Honolulu Advertiser ran birth notices in the paper back when Obama was alleged to have been born, and if so, if he was in it?
TR
Defender968
10-29-2008, 13:29
Not to put on my tinfoil hat, but the thought occured to me that burning almost two days of late election campaigning to visit a sick racist grandmother smacked of incredible arrogance, or something more going on than meets the eye. Hawaii is one of the most solidly Dim states in the Union, and needed no campaigning or bolstering. Good to know that the Dims have locked that issue down. Wonder if the Honolulu Advertiser ran birth notices in the paper back when Obama was alleged to have been born, and if so, if he was in it?
TR
TR I guess I'll have to get a tinfoil hat as well, cause why else would they seal the record, it's not like anyone is going to try to steal his identity? :confused: Why not just put this to rest, get 10 notarized copies, I mean he was in Hawaii it would have taken 30 minutes, have a press conference when you get back show them and then distribute them, case closed, rumors ended, no sweat, what's the big deal, it isn't like there's anything on a Birth Certificate that you couldn't find on the internet with enough looking. Unless of course it did prove he wasn't born in the US or his father was somebody else, etc. There is no reason not to release it. Sealing it just propagates the theories, and what good does that do for his campaign? It's like he's just doing the Jedi mind trick and half the country is buying it.
I suspect he got some sort of statement - audio, video, written, or some combination - from his grandmother. Then, if some uncomfortable truth emerges, he can argue that the records are in error due to a clerical error. He will then, if necessary, produce the statment from his grandmother to bolster his arguments. Should his aged and infirm relative pass away, he will still have the statements in hand.
As I mentioned once before, any potential leader that creates a situation so certain to create bitter, angry division brings his fitness to lead into question. In my opinion.
Team Sergeant
10-29-2008, 14:19
So much for transparency.
I don't wear tinfoil hats, but, what the hell is the big deal with the birth certificate?
Show the stupid people the birth certificate already!
Why the hell not???? It shows a name, a place and your mom and dad.....
Well that is of course it has someone elses name as mother or father on it, ouch......
SEAL THOSE RECORDS!
TS
Defender968
10-29-2008, 14:19
I suspect he got some sort of statement - audio, video, written, or some combination - from his grandmother. Then, if some uncomfortable truth emerges, he can argue that the records are in error due to a clerical error. He will then, if necessary, produce the statment from his grandmother to bolster his arguments. Should his aged and infirm relative pass away, he will still have the statements in hand.
As I mentioned once before, any potential leader that creates a situation so certain to create bitter, angry division brings his fitness to lead into question. In my opinion.
+1 I think you're 100% on target.
Wonder if the Honolulu Advertiser ran birth notices in the paper back when Obama was alleged to have been born, and if so, if he was in it?
TR
I'm not saying one way or the other, and am not trying to make an argument, since I agree with everyone here. I am linking this article for discussion purposes only, and to (maybe) answer the above question.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Following the link on the site to the Honolulu Advertiser we can see the primary source, which comes from a Clintonite. So we have to take it for what it's worth. There is a much better copy of the "certificate of live birth" on the Politifact.com link down at the bottom.
I don't think this fully answers the question if Obama was born in the US, but it touches upon the question quoted above.
SR
Red Flag 1
10-29-2008, 15:32
Not to put on my tinfoil hat, but the thought occured to me that burning almost two days of late election campaigning to visit a sick racist grandmother smacked of incredible arrogance, or something more going on than meets the eye. Hawaii is one of the most solidly Dim states in the Union, and needed no campaigning or bolstering. Good to know that the Dims have locked that issue down. Wonder if the Honolulu Advertiser ran birth notices in the paper back when Obama was alleged to have been born, and if so, if he was in it?
TR
Trolling for any bleeding heart sympthay vote out there, me thinks:rolleyes:.
He was visiting his "ill" grandmother after all.
Did he not throw her under the bus a few months ago? Well of course she would be ill.
RF 1
I'm not saying one way or the other, and am not trying to make an argument, since I agree with everyone here. I am linking this article for discussion purposes only, and to (maybe) answer the above question.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Following the link on the site to the Honolulu Advertiser we can see the primary source, which comes from a Clintonite. So we have to take it for what it's worth. There is a much better copy of the "certificate of live birth" on the Politifact.com link down at the bottom.
I don't think this fully answers the question if Obama was born in the US, but it touches upon the question quoted above.
SR
While those are very nice images, I find myself wondering about a couple issues.
First, I notice the connection between Fact Check and The Annenberg organization; however, the Annenberg foundation seems to have connections to Obama, Ayers, and Rezko. Google provides some suggestive links, although nothing definitive.
Second - if the material is already online, already available, already visible - then why bother sealing the records? Why not get the copies mentioned earlier and pass them out to anyone and everyone?
:confused:
While those are very nice images, I find myself wondering about a couple issues.
First, I notice the connection between Fact Check and The Annenberg organization; however, the Annenberg foundation seems to have connections to Obama, Ayers, and Rezko. Google provides some suggestive links, although nothing definitive.
Second - if the material is already online, already available, already visible - then why bother sealing the records? Why not get the copies mentioned earlier and pass them out to anyone and everyone?
:confused:
+1
Citizen or not, sealing the records only adds to the speculation. Something that came to mind with Obama trip to see Grandma, I was surprised (considering Obama loves photo ops) not to see any press footage of his trip especially his return....waving at the crowd at the arrival gate or informing the crowd about dear Grandma.
Just picked this up over at Pat Dollards:
http://thevalleytruth.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/the-supreme-court-and-obamas-birth-certificate/
If the article is true, The One will be required to provide a birth certificate and all this can come to an end........maybe.
EDIT: Obama is not required to provide a Birth Cert, be he must respond to SCOTUS by 12/1 at which time they will make some type of decision.
http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/
:munchin
Guess we will see if the system forces the issue.
I just can not see why you would not show it unless you were hidding a secret.. Just stupid...
Guess we will see if the system forces the issue.
I just can not see why you would not show it unless you were hidding a secret.. Just stupid...
I agree, and though I wouldn't put it past 'The One' to try and get something past the masses....it has that tinfoil feeling to it, but then again I can't see the SCOTUS getting involved unless there might be something too it.
I just don't know what to think:confused:
I just don't know what to think:confused:
Well...as they say in politics, a photo op is worth a million votes or so. :rolleyes: Where's Denny Crane when we need him? :p
Richard's $.02
I made a photo like that one above, and showed it to a dimocrat friend of mine and he flipped.
This issue has struck a nerve with me as well during the election season. A retired CWO I know wrote in to a local paper about it as well.
http://www.ozarkcountytimes.com/exec/view.cgi?archive=74&num=6079
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833
BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.
Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.
Toward the end of the interview, the newspaper asked Abercrombie: "You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plan to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?"
In his response, Abercrombie acknowledged the birth certificate issue will have "political implications" for the next presidential election "that we simply cannot have."
Suggesting he was still intent on producing more birth records on Obama from the Hawaii Department of Health vital records vault, Abercrombie told the newspaper there was a recording of the Obama birth in the state archives that he wants to make public.
Snip
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833
BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.
Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.
Toward the end of the interview, the newspaper asked Abercrombie: "You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plan to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?"
In his response, Abercrombie acknowledged the birth certificate issue will have "political implications" for the next presidential election "that we simply cannot have."
Suggesting he was still intent on producing more birth records on Obama from the Hawaii Department of Health vital records vault, Abercrombie told the newspaper there was a recording of the Obama birth in the state archives that he wants to make public.
Snip
Campaign 2012 - The Road to Hell this is going to be an interesting 2 years.
:munchin
WND previously reported the Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the COLB posted on the Internet by Snopes.com and FactCheck.org.
WND has reported that in 1961, Obama's grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, could have made an in-person report of a Hawaii birth even if the infant Barack Obama Jr. had been foreign-born.
Moreover, WND has documented that the address reported in the newspaper birth announcements was the home of the grandparents.
WND also has reported that Barack Obama Sr. maintained his own separate apartment in Honolulu, even after he was supposedly married to Ann Dunham, Barack Obama's mother, and that Dunham left Hawaii within three weeks of the baby's birth to attend the University of Washington in Seattle.
WND has also reported that Tim Adams, a former senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in 2008, has maintained that there is no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health and that neither Honolulu hospital – Queens Medical Center or Kapiolani Medical Center – has any record that Obama was born there.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833
If he was born via Cesarean, he’s certainly not natural born :D
I’m more interested in Mohammed Hassan Chandoo, Wahid Hamid, Obama’s bundlers, as well as Ahmad Mian Soomro, and school records…
I'm not sure that this issue will be as big a downer to his re-election bid as the one about the health care package he shoved down the throats of nearly two/thirds of the Country who didn't want it.
This marxist BS will get shoved out of the way again, hopefully.
So far, the best policy to come out of this administration is the First Lady's "Gorilla Diet" programs for kids.
So far, the best policy to come out of this administration is the First Lady's "Gorilla Diet" programs for kids.
In one of former Governor Palin's "Alaska" episodes the family is in the RV heading off on a camping trip. Upon arrival at their stop all of a sudden you hear her asking where some s'more ingredient was...."in honor of Michelle Obama". I laughed my ass off.
I don't believe he's a citizen.
mark46th
01-19-2011, 19:06
Here is my take on the whole thing. The most important document is the Financial Aid as a foreign student document from Occidental College. Obama's mother was a U.S. Citizen, so he, by default, was born a U.S. citizen. It doesn't make any difference where a person is born. As long as one of the parents is a U.S. citizen, that person gets U.S. citizenship. BUT, if that person is issued and uses a passport from another nation, at age 18, they must declare U.S. citizenship. The Occidental College document says he recieved aid as a foreign student.
The Hawaii issue may have been a problem for his mother and grandparents. His grandmother was a well connected Bank Vice President and may have arranged for the Certificate of Live Birth. Hawaiian politics are a cesspool of incestuous relationships so it would have been easy for the grandmother to arrange. But the mother and grandmother are both dead so that is irrelevant.
If he traveled under a U.S. passport and he received aid as a foreign student, he may have perpetrated a fraud upon Occidental College, which is irrelevant due to the statute of limitations.
If he traveled to the United States after he turned 18 under an Indonesian passport, there is an issue concerning his citizenship.
Record of President Obama's birth in 1961 is 'in the archives': Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawai i_gov.html
"Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.
Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that "our investigation" indicates there is a recording of his birth.
"It actually exists in the archives, written down," he said......"
You can read the whole story but the key statement is from above "....Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor............"
It is interesting that this issue continues to fester like a puss filled wound and could be healed just by the Prez releasing the long form BC of his birth.
Remember way back when - forget her name - the head paper pusher - she said she saw the long form BC.
Now - this story says nothing about a long form BC but says "papers". Odd way to put it since everybody knows what we're talking about here.
LongTabSigO
01-20-2011, 05:48
Is he a Citizen? Yea.
Is he a "Native Born" Citizen? I'm less and less sure of that.
Like many, the obscene delays in putting this to rest are now beyond absurd. Nothing bespeaks the death of journalism like the way this question has gone unanswered for so long (and the questions on his school records and other "personal" disclosures he adamantly - and at great expense - has chosen to conceal.
:confused:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA
Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.
Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.
He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.
But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.
Snip
My Dad was born in the land of we'll pass a law just in case Sharia is coming (Oklahoma). He never had any 'long form birth certificate' and the state's 'vital statistics' list his birth date wrong according to my Grandmother and the DOB she recorded in the family Bible.
None of this was ever questioned by the SSA or the US Navy or any other corporate, local, state, or federal agency he ever had any dealings with during his life.
My Dad never knew how lucky he was to have never run for POTUS.
Richard :munchin
My Dad was born in Oklahoma. He never had any 'long form birth certificate' and the state's 'vital statistics' list his birth date wrong according to my Grandmother and the DOB she recorded in the family Bible.
None of this was ever questioned by the SSA or the US Navy or any other corporate, local, state, or federal agency he ever had any dealings with during his life.
I guess my Dad never knew how lucky he was to have never run for POTUS.
Richard :munchin
The funny thing is, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether Obama's a natural citizen or not, does it?
His poll numbers would suck just as bad whether he were born in Kenya or Honolulu.
:munchin
> http://www.wnd.com/files/110123adams1.pdf
> http://www.wnd.com/files/110123adams2.pdf
:munchin
Obama's mother was a U.S. Citizen, so he, by default, was born a U.S. citizen. It doesn't make any difference where a person is born. As long as one of the parents is a U.S. citizen, that person gets U.S. citizenship. BUT, if that person is issued and uses a passport from another nation, at age 18, they must declare U.S. citizenship.
Where on earth did you get this info? None of it is true.
Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
•Anyone born inside the United States *
•Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
•Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
•Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
•Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
•Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
•Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
•A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.
Reference
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html
It's actually even more convoluted than that. For those born abroad, it depends on when they were born, which parent(s) are citizens, and if the birth was in wedlock. The five years transmission requirement is only good for children born after November 14, 1986. It's ten years for those born between 1952 and 1986. And a child born to an AmCit mother who was present in the US for two years prior to birth is a citizen if she was unwed at the time of its birth; it's not a citizen if she was married to an alien.
So no, a kid doesn't automatically become a citizen at birth just because one of its parents is.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_citizen.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_birth_certificate.htm
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf
And so it goes...
Richard
Blue,
Don't know who you are or what you do for a living. I am not a lawyer either, but that quote and the rest of that website is pretty clear. It doesn't look like it takes a genius to figure it out. If you say that that is an incorrect interpretation from www.usconstitution.net, where is your opposing proof? Or do we have to take your word for it?
Also, I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell of anything every coming of Pres. Obama (and I think he is one of the worst presidents in our history) and his birth certificate. Unless a smoking gun shows up (and this ain't it), all the discussion about his birth certificate does is distract from the screwed up stuff he really is doing and gives the left the opportunity to diminish the argument by calling those that argue the case "birthers".
A better bet is that it lists "Race" as Caucasian. It was 1961.
Pat
LOL my source is THE source. 7 FAM 1100 is a good starting point, along with the transmission tables.
It's my job to know :). Check PMs.
Okay, now that we are striaght, my question:
Why would a DOS Foreign Affairs manual take precedence over Title 8 US Code?
By the way, Blue, I have allot of respect for you guys. Worked with you all allot over the years.
Think of the FAM as the US Code broken down for us slow (read: non-lawyer) people. It's basically the bible on how the US Code is implemented, both legally and procedurally. I didn't say what you posted was incorrect, just incomplete. There have been numerous changes to exactly what a US Citizen is over the years, and some stuff was grandfathered in and other stuff wasn't (apologies for the redundancy to my PM).
Edited to add--it also takes into account case law over the years. Legal precedents set in court can change the law as much as the legislature, so even the US Code doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.
Legal precedents set in court can change the law as much as the legislature, so even the US Code doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.
That, mi amigo, is my biggest fear. Lets say that after BHO's 4 or (heaven forbid) 8 years it turns out that he was, in fact, not eligible to run for President. What happens then?
Pat
Lets say that after BHO's 4 or (heaven forbid) 8 years it turns out that he was, in fact, not eligible to run for President. What happens then?
Congressional hearings and posturing in front of the microphones and cameras, finger pointing and new laws to make sure it doesn't happen again (until the next time), and the country moves on as BHO writes his memoirs and takes on the role of an ex-Prez.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
silentreader
01-28-2011, 22:28
Congressional hearings and posturing in front of the microphones and cameras, finger pointing and new laws to make sure it doesn't happen again (until the next time), and the country moves on as BHO writes his memoirs and takes on the role of an ex-Prez.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Or, on the other hand, we ask ourselves the "Arnold Schwarzenegger Question"; why do we have a law preventing our adopted sons or daughters from running for president to begin with?*
*Which is not to say that I think Arnold should run for president, but I do think that his place of birth should not prevent him from being able to try.
Or, on the other hand, we ask ourselves the "Arnold Schwarzenegger Question"; why do we have a law preventing our adopted sons or daughters run for president to begin with?*
*Which is not to say that I think Arnold should run for president, but I do think that his place of birth should not prevent him from being able to try.
Yep. The stacked courts (how's Rahm doing in Chi-town?) will cite "precedent". And I'd not rule out it being Arnold. He's a Kennedy now. In fact, he is probably the new "don" of the Kennedy clan now.
Pat
That, mi amigo, is my biggest fear. Lets say that after BHO's 4 or (heaven forbid) 8 years it turns out that he was, in fact, not eligible to run for President. What happens then?
Pat
That's mi amiga ;).
Legal precedents are just another sign our system of checks and balances is working, they are nothing to fear in and of themselves. There have long been questions about what a "natural born" citizen is as it refers to the presidential office, and no law or case has ever addressed it. If you say only those born on US soil, well that would include anchor babies who have no real ties to this country and would exclude those born abroad to two American citizen parents. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.
I believe, as others have pointed out, that arguments about whether or not he is eligible to be president simply detract from the shitty job he is doing. Clarification on eligiblity is nothing that can't be addressed by legal clarification, either from the judicial or legislative branch, in the future. If all is said and done and we find out in five years he should have never been president, does that really change anything? No, it's just something else to bitch about :).
Let's face it, no matter their origin, we just want our President to be an "American". But what is the litmus test for that? Our vote.
I also believe we need to concetrate on other things because by the time this went through the court system his term would be up, however I am not so sure it should be completly dropped for legal reasons.
Roger that. It's kinda like Area 51- let the campesinos believe in ET's as long as it diverts them from the truth. The WH prolly laughs at every story that pops up regarding the citizenship issue because of the distraction provided.
It's more than likely something along the lines of PSM's idea-he may have been listed as "Caucasian". In '61 there wasn't a ton of "black pride", and mothers prolly wanted their questionable babies to "pass" as white.
Regardless, we have legislation aimed at us along the lines of the new gun control measure that IMO is much more important politically than where the POTUS was born.
Plenty of time to deal with that when sanity once again reigns on Capitol Hill.
I am no lawyer, but would it not negate any bill he signed in to office during his term ie health care bill?
I also believe we need to concetrate on other things because by the time this went through the court system his term would be up, however I am not so sure it should be completly dropped for legal reasons.
Any law that any President signs into law, or for that matter, any law that congress passes, that is unconstitutional, is null and void anyway and doesn't bear the force of law. At every level of government, at a minimum, should be denounced and ignored. When has anyone seen that happen?
Source:
Saikrishna Prakash, Why the President Must Veto Unconstitutional Bills, 16 Wm. & Mary Bill of Rts. J.
81 (2007), http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/wmborj/vol16/iss1/7
craigepo
01-29-2011, 09:10
*Which is not to say that I think Arnold should run for president, but I do think that his place of birth should not prevent him from being able to try.
Ok, so what would the "silentreader" rule be on eligibility to run for president? How many years should you be a citizen before being eligible to run? 2? 4? What if you were born in Yemen? Russia? China? Venezuela? Should being a citizen even be a requirement to run for president, as long as the candidate will swear the proper oath?
Why do you think our founding fathers would have been so stupid as to foist upon us such a law? Is their logic now antiquated?
The Reaper
01-29-2011, 09:41
Or, on the other hand, we ask ourselves the "Arnold Schwarzenegger Question"; why do we have a law preventing our adopted sons or daughters from running for president to begin with?*
*Which is not to say that I think Arnold should run for president, but I do think that his place of birth should not prevent him from being able to try.
I think you should do a lot more studying before posting these thoughts.
silentreader is not looking like a good user name for you.
TR
silentreader
01-29-2011, 12:04
Ok, so what would the "silentreader" rule be on eligibility to run for president? How many years should you be a citizen before being eligible to run? 2? 4? What if you were born in Yemen? Russia? China? Venezuela? Should being a citizen even be a requirement to run for president, as long as the candidate will swear the proper oath?
Why do you think our founding fathers would have been so stupid as to foist upon us such a law? Is their logic now antiquated?
Clearly, poor S.A. has landed me on The Reaper's bad side, which is a place that I have no wish to be, so I'll respond to your questions and then get my head down.
I do think there should be a citizenship requirement and a time-as citizen requirement that is significant enough to ensure that a candidate has been affiliated with the US for a significant portion of his life.
And I don't believe the founding fathers were stupid, nor is their logic antiquated. However, I do believe that modern candidates face scrutiny to a degree that the founding fathers never anticipated. I believe that if a foreign-born candidate were to run, it would be a huge campaign issue and he or she would have to take extraordinary measures to prove to citizens that his heart was 100% American. Every single aspect of the candidate's history would be picked through by the media and by independent citizens. And, quite frankly, I don't believe that a non-US born citizen could win a presidential election. But it seems to me that it should be for the voters to decide, not the accident of birth.
I anticipate a lot of people would disagree with me, and in terms of national priorities changing the standards for who can run for president should be about as low as they come. However, my original post was in response to a hypothetical: what would happen if, after his term(s) it is discovered that Obama was actually a foreigner.
greenberetTFS
01-29-2011, 16:14
Clearly, poor S.A. has landed me on The Reaper's bad side, which is a place that I have no wish to be, so I'll respond to your questions and then get my head down.
I do think there should be a citizenship requirement and a time-as citizen requirement that is significant enough to ensure that a candidate has been affiliated with the US for a significant portion of his life.
And I don't believe the founding fathers were stupid, nor is their logic antiquated. However, I do believe that modern candidates face scrutiny to a degree that the founding fathers never anticipated. I believe that if a foreign-born candidate were to run, it would be a huge campaign issue and he or she would have to take extraordinary measures to prove to citizens that his heart was 100% American. Every single aspect of the candidate's history would be picked through by the media and by independent citizens. And, quite frankly, I don't believe that a non-US born citizen could win a presidential election. But it seems to me that it should be for the voters to decide, not the accident of birth.
I anticipate a lot of people would disagree with me, and in terms of national priorities changing the standards for who can run for president should be about as low as they come. However, my original post was in response to a hypothetical: what would happen if, after his term(s) it is discovered that Obama was actually a foreigner.
SR,
3 things you must keep in your mind when ever you consider a post........1st,you don't spit into the wind........2nd,you don't step on superman's cape........ And 3rd,you don't mess around with TR............:rolleyes::(:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
craigepo
01-30-2011, 00:12
Here was Alexander Hamilton's take on the presidential citizenship issue:
"Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one quarter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?..."
Clearly, poor S.A. has landed me on The Reaper's bad side, which is a place that I have no wish to be,
Probably should have stopped there. ;)
And I don't believe the founding fathers were stupid, nor is their logic antiquated. However, I do believe that modern candidates face scrutiny to a degree that the founding fathers never anticipated.
Couldn't disagree more, these men had extraordinary vision when writing the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
But it seems to me that it should be for the voters to decide, not the accident of birth.
No, the Constitution decides. A foreign born person has no business running this Country.
mark46th
01-31-2011, 10:00
Blue- What I wrote was from experience. I have nieces and nephews born outside the U.S., one parent a U.S. citizen, the other, a citizen of another country... Other exceptions or exemptions may exist. P.M. me if you like...