View Full Version : They landed higher than....
They landed higher (12,350 Above Sea level) than most people jump from.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4886596.ece
Team Sergeant
10-06-2008, 16:58
Damn, I knew it, thats not what the MFF committee told us!!! No one told us our lungs might collapse!!!!:rolleyes::D
Sad part is one million readers will be thinking that is true....:rolleyes:
"They fell at speeds reaching 140mph, hurtling past the highest ridges of the snow-laden Himalayas, before each released a parachute, made three times the size of a normal canopy to cope with the thin air. The jumpers wore oxygen masks to prevent their lungs from collapsing as they fell. Wearing neoprene underwear was compulsory — to prevent them from being frozen to death."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4886596.ece
Red Flag 1
10-06-2008, 17:09
Damn, I knew it, thats not what the MFF committee told us!!! No one told us our lungs might collapse!!!!:rolleyes::D
Sad part is one million readers will be thinking that is true....:rolleyes:
"They fell at speeds reaching 140mph, hurtling past the highest ridges of the snow-laden Himalayas, before each released a parachute, made three times the size of a normal canopy to cope with the thin air. The jumpers wore oxygen masks to prevent their lungs from collapsing as they fell. Wearing neoprene underwear was compulsory — to prevent them from being frozen to death."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4886596.ece
Perhaps a bit higher and they might have exploded!
So much for the credibility of the press.
Still in all, a pricey nonmilitary jump that made a record of sorts; with 30 more to follow.
RF 1
Canopy three times normal size = ?
No square footage (or suspended weight) given.
I'm guessing a tandem rig.
I wonder what size chut the tandem jumpers were using.
Couple of first timers were on the list to jump.
...an MC4 is three times the size of a normal sized rig.
My sport rig has a 107 main and an MC-4 has a 370.
Still a cool jump though... I would have definitely bought a lift ticket for the jump. I am sure there will be an article in an upcoming issue of parachutist magazine.
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:01
"The jumpers wore oxygen masks to prevent their lungs from collapsing as they fell."
Any non-SF'ers want to guest why the oxygen?
And for the record it has nothing to do with preventing their lungs from collapsing as they fell......:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Being 29,000 ft+ in the air, you need oxygen to keep from passing out or blacking out. The body needs oxygen, and at the altitude, the oxygen levels are much less than what they are at sea level, hence the need of oxygen.
Thats what I think, from knowledge I gained from movies and tv shows.:D
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:10
Being 29,000 ft+ in the air, you need oxygen to keep from passing out or blacking out. The body needs oxygen, and at the altitude, the oxygen levels are much less than what they are at sea level, hence the need of oxygen.
Thats what I think, from knowledge I gained from movies and tv shows.:D
That's one reason.... there's another very important reason and why the oxygen we breath is about 99% pure.
And by the way the oxygen is the same mix as it is at sea level..... You're almost there....
Being 29,000 ft+ in the air, you need oxygen to keep from passing out or blacking out. The body needs oxygen, and at the altitude, the oxygen levels are much less than what they are at sea level, hence the need of oxygen.
Thats what I think, from knowledge I gained from movies and tv shows.:D
Young man I think that every QP that has made a comment is HALO qualified and we all have been making statements because of the uninformed and stupid writing of the news reporter. Read more......movies and TV are 90% bull. If you wish to learn you do it via reading and interaction with people that are educated in a specific area that you are studying.
That's one reason.... there's another very important reason and why the oxygen we breath is about 99% pure.
And by the way the oxygen is the same mix as it is at sea level..... You're almost there....
Like with Scuba diving, only in reverse, the Nitrogen levels in your body would increase, without breathing in more O2 at a higher altitude.
:munchin
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:21
Young man I think that every QP that has made a comment is HALO qualified and we all have been making statements because of the uninformed and stupid writing of the news reporter. Read more......movies and TV are 90% bull. If you wish to learn you do it via reading and interaction with people that are educated in a specific area that you are studying.
Great, now he’s going to come back with a 10 page dissertation on O2 in our atmosphere and how it affects our physiology. :D
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:25
Like with Scuba diving, only in reverse, the Nitrogen levels in your body would increase, without breathing in more O2 at a higher altitude.
:munchin
I said the O2 mix was the same at altitude, what's the difference?
"Nitrogen levels in your body would increase" not necessarily something else happens...like scuba diving....;)
Would it be because of the combination of lack of oxygen and cold air?
I seem to remember hearing someone talk about the cold temperture causing oxygen not to flow correctly...
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:41
Would it be because of the combination of lack of oxygen and cold air?
I seem to remember hearing someone talk about the cold temperture causing oxygen not to flow correctly...
Nope, not even close.
Now I've said it three times the O2 mix is the same at 30,000 feet as it is at zero feet, what's the difference?
Next contestant?
That's one reason.... there's another very important reason and why the oxygen we breath is about 99% pure.
And by the way the oxygen is the same mix as it is at sea level..... You're almost there....
I said the O2 mix was the same at altitude, what's the difference?
"Nitrogen levels in your body would increase" not necessarily something else happens...like scuba diving....;)
Okay, I'm a little confused (no surprise there ;) )
T.S.,
You say a MFF jumper (or any high altitude jumper) breaths an O2 mix the same at altitude, now I'm assuming (yes I know assumption is the Mother of ALL F**k ups) that the mix you're breathing is the same mix at sea level. 20% O2, 79% Nitrogen and the rest trace elements.
But you also state, that you breath O2 that is "99% pure".
As with Scuba diving (yes I know I'm comparing Apples to Oranges here), when a diver is on Scuba, they are breathing air, not O2. A build up of O2, in a scuba diver can lead to death while at depth, unless of course they're on a re breather, and then it depends on what O2 mix they have and their depth they can go to. But as we ascend from depth, the Nitrogen, does not "off gas" from our bodies as quickly as O2 comes from our system. Hence leading to the "bends" if a diver comes up to quickly.
So, I'm assuming (yes I know assumption is the mother of ALL F**k ups), that when you increase in altitude for a jump, as the air becomes "thinner", there is less O2 in your blood system, which would lead to Hypoxia. Thus with the decrease in O2 the higher you go, the less there would be, but an increase of Nitrogen would happen, which would lead to a "reverse" bends for a jumper.
The other thing that comes to mind is also the increased chance for Hypothermia for the jumper at altitude.
T.S.,
I see you're replying as I type this.
One other thing I've heard about, with jumpers at altitude, if they're not on O2 at altitude it would cause the blood to "boil" because of the lack of O2 in their system.
Not really an Increase of Nitrogen, but a decrease of O2, would cause the Nitrogen in the blood system to expand or "boil".
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:57
Okay, I'm a little confused (no surprise there ;) )
T.S.,
You say a MFF jumper (or any high altitude jumper) breaths an O2 mix the same at altitude, now I'm assuming (yes I know assumption is the Mother of ALL F**k ups) that the mix you're breathing is the same mix at sea level. 20% O2, 79% Nitrogen and the rest trace elements.
But you also state, that you breath O2 that is "99% pure".
As with Scuba diving (yes I know I'm comparing Apples to Oranges here), when a diver is on Scuba, they are breathing air, not O2. A build up of O2, in a scuba diver can lead to death while at depth, unless of course they're on a re breather, and then it depends on what O2 mix they have and their depth they can go to. But as we ascend from depth, the Nitrogen, does not "off gas" from our bodies as quickly as O2 comes from our system. Hence leading to the "bends" if a diver comes up to quickly.
So, I'm assuming (yes I know assumption is the mother of ALL F**k ups), that when you increase in altitude for a jump, as the air becomes "thinner", there is less O2 in your blood system, which would lead to Hypoxia. Thus with the decrease in O2 the higher you go, the less there would be, but an increase of Nitrogen would happen, which would lead to a "reverse" bends for a jumper.
The other thing that comes to mind is also the increased chance for Hypothermia for the jumper at altitude.
No I said the O2 found at altitude is the same as sea level. I didn't say we were breathing it.
The big difference is "density", and if you breathed the air at altitude you would not be breathing enough O2 as we get at sea level.
(If you took an empty balloon an tied it at sea level, and then took it to 30,000 feet it would expand.)
There is not an "increase" in Nitrogen, so why might we get bent and why almost pure O2?
You're close but no cigar.
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 08:58
T.S.,
I see you're replying as I type this.
One other thing I've heard about, with jumpers at altitude, if they're not on O2 at altitude it would cause the blood to "boil" because of the lack of O2 in their system.
Not really an Increase of Nitrogen, but a decrease of O2, would cause the Nitrogen in the blood system to expand or "boil".
Did I mention I'm also a Rescue Diver?
Why can we get bent diving? Explain...
Great, now he’s going to come back with a 10 page dissertation on O2 in our atmosphere and how it affects our physiology. :D
OK I will pull out my AF Physiology manual and smash the uninformed:p
No one who has not been through the training needs to comment on this issue.:munchin
No I said the O2 found at altitude is the same as sea level. I didn't say we were breathing it.
The big difference is "density", and if you breathed the air at altitude you would not be breathing enough O2 as we get at sea level.
(If you took an empty balloon an tied it at sea level, and then took it to 30,000 feet it would expand.)
There is not an "increase" in Nitrogen, so why might we get bent and why almost pure O2?
You're close but no cigar.
Okay that clears things up for me. Thanks. :D
As with Scuba, as a diver/jumper ascends in depth/altitude, the Nitrogen "expands" in our bodies/tissues, this producing the bends.
A jumper would need to breath in a high percentage of O2 to help keep that Nitrogen "expansion" down.
Hence as with a Diver with DCS, the first treatment they would receive would be a high concentration of O2 (if available), before being taken to a chamber, and while in the chamber, they would still be, or placed on, a high concentration of O2.
Did I mention I'm also a Rescue Diver?
Why can we get bent diving? Explain...
I believe you have mentioned that. ;)
Unfortunately, I have to get ready for work, so I'm gonna have to "cheat". :D
Effects on the Organism during Decompression
Decompression of Dissolved Gases
Air consists of nitrogen and oxygen. One part of oxygen is consumed and another is replaced by carbon dioxide. That is why the gas that concerns diving and decompression most is nitrogen.
Nitrogen is an inert gas in the organism. It does not take part in the exchange of substances and respiratory processes. There is about 1 liter of nitrogen which is dissolved in fluids and cells. During compression, nitrogen is intensively absorbed by the blood and dissolved in the organism until the partial pressure inside and the ambient pressure are equalized (saturation). During decompression, the reverse process takes place. Because of the decrease in water pressure with ascent, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the organism becomes higher and the gas is released by the cells and tissues (desaturation). This principle concerns helium, hydrogen and other inert gases too.
The speed of desaturation is a major problem in diving medicine.
If the diver ascends too fast and before complete desaturation, nitrogen begins to form bubbles in the organism. These bubbles are very dangerous because they can plug small arteries and cause serious damage by stopping the blood flow to a particular organ.
http://library.thinkquest.org/28170/46.html
Team Sergeant
10-07-2008, 11:09
Before we jump from a high altitude we "pre-breath" almost pure O2. This is to "flush" as much Nitrogen from our systems as possible before we accend "unpressurized". If we did not do that we could get "bent" as Nitrogen comes out of solution and becomes a gas.;)
Clear as mud now?
Peregrino
10-07-2008, 12:29
Before we jump from a high altitude we "pre-breath" almost pure O2. This is to "flush" as much Nitrogen from our systems as possible before we accend "unpressurized". If we did not do that we could get "bent" as Nitrogen comes out of solution and becomes a gas.;)
Clear as mud now?
QUIT PLAYING WITH YOUR FOOD! :rolleyes:
JAGeorgia
10-07-2008, 13:44
Let's see: About 79% Nitrogen, 20.9% Oxygen; the rest is CO2, water vapor, and other rare gasses...the difference must be Partial Pressure. Since the pressure at that altitude is much lower the Partial Pressure of Oxygen is lower. Thus the need for higher concentration of Oxygen to meet physiologic demand.:munchin
Hint:
Research: "Time of Useful Consciousness"
Include "partial pressure" and "saturation"
From the same neck of the woods
18 dead in place crash.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434283,00.html
Before we jump from a high altitude we "pre-breath" almost pure O2. This is to "flush" as much Nitrogen from our systems as possible before we accend "unpressurized". If we did not do that we could get "bent" as Nitrogen comes out of solution and becomes a gas.;)
Clear as mud now?
The stuff I learn on this site, mind blowing to say the least.
Team Sergeant
10-08-2008, 13:02
The stuff I learn on this site, mind blowing to say the least.
I'll give you mind blowing:
Now imagine strapping on a 44 pound parachute, plus O2 tanks, a mask like the pilots wear, helmet, a 100+ pound rucksack, 25-35 plus pounds of MOLLE gear and a couple of weapons.
Step out into pitch blackness at 25,000 feet, 500 miles from friendly lines and when you hit the ground, be prepared to fight.
Welcome to our world.;)
Team Sergeant
I'll give you mind blowing:
Now imagine strapping on a 44 pound parachute, plus O2 tanks, a mask like the pilots wear, helmet, a 100+ pound rucksack, 25-35 plus pounds of MOLLE gear and a couple of weapons.
Step out into pitch blackness at 25,000 feet, 500 miles from friendly lines and when you hit the ground, be prepared to fight.
Welcome to our world.;)
Team Sergeant
Remember how guys would get a little or a lot nervous prior to the jump. For me you just described the most enjoyable infill situation I ever did. I always became very relaxed and excited as JM during the infill. I was so relaxed and loved the mission. Falling through the air at night or even the day was always the best. The thing I loved even more was getting a new guy on the team and teaching him how to infill and fly after they got out of school. Great memories.......:D
Before we jump from a high altitude we "pre-breath" almost pure O2. This is to "flush" as much Nitrogen from our systems as possible before we accend "unpressurized". If we did not do that we could get "bent" as Nitrogen comes out of solution and becomes a gas.;)
Clear as mud now?
Roger that T.S.
Thanks for the brain "tickler". ;) It never dawned on me, how Nitrogen can becom a problem for jumpers. But now that I look at it, I can see the correlation between jumping, as there is with diving at altitude.
:munchin
Slantwire
10-09-2008, 06:45
Also, does this mean that if you drop a couple of very large pure O2 tanks let's say down to a deep diving level under the water, then dive all the way down, let the nitrogen build up, then you switch to these nearly pure O2 tanks, breath them for a while, flush the nitrogen all out of your system at that depth, then, from the deep depth, could you ascend up to the surface very quickly, without getting the bends, because you flushed out all the nitrogen?
Just watch out for oxygen toxicity. Civilian technical divers play with all kinds of NITROX and TRIMIX combinations. I won't try to speak for military divers.
Team Sergeant
10-09-2008, 10:16
Just wondering if I have this down:
You go underwater deep, the pressure increases, and the nitrogen concentration in your tissues increases, then you go up too fast to lower pressure, without flushing the nitrogen out of your system, and the nitrogen bubbles expand, giving you the bends.
In order to prevent the same thing from happening for going up very high to jump (as the pressure again drops), jumpers breath nearly pure O2 to flush as much nitrogen out of their systems as possible, so that you can just fly up very high and not get the bends...?
Also, does this mean that if you drop a couple of very large pure O2 tanks let's say down to a deep diving level under the water, then dive all the way down, let the nitrogen build up, then you switch to these nearly pure O2 tanks, breath them for a while, flush the nitrogen all out of your system at that depth, then, from the deep depth, could you ascend up to the surface very quickly, without getting the bends, because you flushed out all the nitrogen?
As for these mountain jumpers, I am guessing they then climbed down the mountain...?
A very good explanation of gasses under pressure can be found here:
http://www.lakesidepress.com/pulmonary/books/scuba/sectiong.htm