View Full Version : What the h#$% is wrong with people?
A bad accident happened this morning on the way to work....the police nor the EMS had arrived by the time I got up to the overturned car (it had obviously just happened). There were assholes actually beeping at each other to get aroung the wreck!!! What pisses me off the most is that nobody had gotten out to help...I pulled around checked to make sure the person(s) had been extracted/gotten out from the overturned car and that everbody was okay....What is wrong with people???!!! Rant over.:mad:
It's a pervasive issue; I saw a similar story on NBC a few days ago.
I suspect that much of the civilian world (me, for example) does not have a strong sense of community. We are not involved with other people. Numerous exceptions are duly noted.
From time to time I ask people if they can give the first and last names of the 8 people who live next to them. Very, very few can.
Philkilla
06-11-2008, 12:46
I saw a similar situation when an old man was in a hit-and-run accident and people just looked at him and drove by....all the while he laid in the middle of the street. Probably what Nmap is reffering to.
I'm not really surprised when I read a similar story a few days later either....people just don't really care for the person to their left or right anymore.
A bad accident happened this morning on the way to work....the police nor the EMS had arrived by the time I got up to the overturned car (it had obviously just happened). There were assholes actually beeping at each other to get aroung the wreck!!! What pisses me off the most is that nobody had gotten out to help...I pulled around checked to make sure the person(s) had been extracted/gotten out from the overturned car and that everbody was okay....What is wrong with people???!!! Rant over.:mad:
Lack of Core Values and Lawyers.:eek::eek:
People that want to help are afraid to because if the person or their family thinks that they can get money they may sue you if they have any injury that could be implied as your fault as a non professional responder. Not a good situation but it is the reality of society.
The Reaper
06-11-2008, 13:14
Lack of Core Values and Lawyers.:eek::eek:
People that want to help are afraid to because if the person or their family thinks that they can get money they may sue you if they have any injury that could be implied as your fault as a non professional responder. Not a good situation but it is the reality of society.
I agree.
Any physical interaction with non-family members or civilians, I now look at with a regard to potential litigation.
Good Samaritan laws do not go far enough to protect us.
TR
People could still try and comfort the injured person by talking to him and telling him "everything will be alright, the medic is on the way." The medic being on the way because the bystander actually called 911, rather than just driving around the accident as if nothing happened.
What a system we have...where you have to be cautious in helping others.
AngelsSix
06-11-2008, 15:18
It's a "ME" world. All anyone cares about is themselves, the considerate are now the minority. People are rude, pushy and inconsiderate. No one says "bless you" anymore when a person sneezes.
I blame Dr. Spoke and the whole liberal parenting generation. People make me sick.
Idiots, all of them.
It's a "ME" world. All anyone cares about is themselves, the considerate are now the minority. People are rude, pushy and inconsiderate. No one says "bless you" anymore when a person sneezes.
I blame Dr. Spoke and the whole liberal parenting generation. People make me sick.
Idiots, all of them.
So all do not lose hope...
I did call 911 today, right after an out-of-control driver in a pos compact
almost ran me off the road in my sisters housing edition. I pulled hard to the curb, and honked my horn loud!
Then, the car flipped a bitch and came after. I did not go in to our driveway, but rather circled the small neighboorhood.
Yep, the driver followed at a distance, but was obviously impared, due to the constant stopping and accelerating.
I called 911, and kept his creeping up to my vehicle presence in sight, so I could tell the dispatcher the exact location.
Cops showed, and the subjects were dealt with.
They said they were just looking for a house...and were lost, from what the LE told me. (We) both rolled our eyes at the same time...and I said thank you officer.
I care about this neighboorhood, darnit-all, and to hell with those that would try and creep in and steel our tranquility!! For no, all hope is NOT lost for law-abiding, neighboor-caring, right-thinking citizens, IMHO! We are still here!!!:munchin
Holly
Well as noted above I don't understand how people can ignore another in need of medical attention... I was driving from Va to Pa this past weekend when some jackass tried passing a dump truck on the right, (two lane highway) clipped the truck and slid into the on coming lane and was struck by an 18 wheeler head on. All five (5) occupants of the car were ejected, three adults two children. I was about four vehicles behind this, myself and the two truckers involved were the only ones to stop. Unreal.... A female adult died on scene, driver had minor injuries, third adult and children were airlifted. I couldn't get anyone to even help hold a pressure bandage.
doctorrich
06-12-2008, 05:26
I think Good Sam laws don't do enough to protect the folks with skills.
Last summer I went to a steakhouse with my in-laws (you can see where this is going) and I had to do a Heimlich on an obese 15 year-old girl who inhaled a chunk of cow.
The restaurant was packed. She stood up and was in obvious distress. Her mother, also obese and not part of the solution, started screaming.
No one stood up. Period.
Besides that lesson that no one may come to my aid when I am choking, I also learned that:
1. obese people are hard to get your arms around
2. The Heimlich is easier on TV than in real life... you have to do it about twenty times
3. vomit does not equal dislodged FB.
After I cleared the obstruction, she actually went back to eating her steak. :confused:
CDRODA396
06-12-2008, 06:11
As stated above, society has become all about "Me," is afraid to stop for fear of law suits, and has become so anestisized by youtube that nothing is really horrendous anymore, just another 30 second mpg to be gawked at as they drive by.
Last night, I came across the fifty-cent term for the phenomenon. It's called "defusion of responsibility". Turns out, it's very common - and it has application to our every-day lives.
There was a study (I don't have a link, but can get one Friday if anyone cares) where between one and five people were brought into cubicles as part of a research study. Then another person feigned an epilectic seizure. When there was only one other person around, they tried to help 80% of the time. But when five were around, they only helped about 30% of the time. This seems like a common theme in all of the events...
Anyway, the practical application is that if you want someone to do something for you, at least make it seem like a one-to-one request. Sending out a blanket message (by email or otherwise) lets everyone ignore the message and assume someone else will take care of the problem.
doctorrich
06-12-2008, 09:59
Sending out a blanket message (by email or otherwise) lets everyone ignore the message and assume someone else will take care of the problem.
How depressing.
I agree.
Any physical interaction with non-family members or civilians, I now look at with a regard to potential litigation.
Good Samaritan laws do not go far enough to protect us.
TR
Agree 100%.
I agree. Any physical interaction with non-family members or civilians, I now look at with a regard to potential litigation.
Well, yo, yo, mo'fo'.. I hope when/if the time comes when my fat ass is layin' in the middle of the boulevard that you'll climb down outta yo V-10 Ram and come over and drag my carcass to the curb..
I'd do the same for you.. ;)
Lack of Core Values and Lawyers.:eek::eek:
People that want to help are afraid to because if the person or their family thinks that they can get money they may sue you if they have any injury that could be implied as your fault as a non professional responder. Not a good situation but it is the reality of society.
You can keep yourself out of trouble and help just by calling 911 and reporting the emergency - staying by the person without actually attempting to move or help them. I was driving around a corner on a wet day and a couple coming from the opposite direction lost control of their car and spun themselves into a ditch and then a brick wall - Just ran over, check that they were okay - they were fine - it's all that's necessary on your part to be the Good Samaritan.
Once also helped a man broke down in the middle lane (highway) and layed a few flares and waited with him for the police - he was arrested for DWI. Justice served.
Very interesting replies that run the full spectrum. I guess I'm the type of person who would rather help somebody and damn the consequences. I don't think I could live with myself wondering "if I would have stopped could I have help saved somebody's life." Guess I've been the sheepdog for too long. Anyway, thanks for all of the replies. Regards.....
Red Flag 1
06-12-2008, 17:12
I still stop to offer aid as I can.
Young lady on I-81 in WVA with a flat. If that was my daughter, I'd like someone stop to help.
Lady on I-95 N of Richmond sitting on the side of the interstate with a dead car; stopped, gave her water, stayed with her until other help arrived. If that was my wife, I'd like someone to stop and offer aid.
Older couple on the PA turnpike with a deflating tire. Changed the tire and got them on their way . If that were my Mom and Dad I'd like someone to stop and help.
Last night my wife stopped on I-64 for a car vs semi event just west of C'ville. She was first to stop to help as she could until more help arrived.
You just never know, someday you may need help and maybe...just maybe someone will stop to help. If I don't stop, maybe no one will. If no one stops to help, we stop being human!!
I just try to do the human thing. I ask and expect nothing. Perhaps I may get burned one day but, any jury member may be in need one day.
RF 1
FXCOfire
06-12-2008, 17:49
A common issue anywhere.... even if it isn't rush hour, everyone is in a hurry and in their own world. My perspective from the fire/rescue side is that these people feel as if it isnt there problem and help with arrive all but instantly.
Since I am a city resident- where in the area and what time ? Not that it makes that big a difference. Where I work in Fairfax County, we have taken 'urgent' calls at the station for accidents that " look bad !!!.." Of course, they have no specific location, didnt stop , etc.
TR has a point- people worry about getting involved and then there is the concern over scams.
FXCOfire
" gotta love being first in on a house fire while on the medic unit.."
AngelsSix
06-12-2008, 19:05
I keep an aid bag and a basic first aid kit in my car. I would have no problem stopping for anyone if there were not already people on the scene. I have just stopped and directed traffic at wrecks before where off-duty medics were already on scene. No big deal. I would want someone to do it for me.
By the way.....why do idiots have to run red lights?? I have been noticing a lot of people running red lights and stop signs lately. Maybe I have become more aware or maybe people realize the cops are not enforcing it.:rolleyes:
The Reaper
06-13-2008, 05:21
I keep an aid bag and a basic first aid kit in my car. I would have no problem stopping for anyone if there were not already people on the scene. I have just stopped and directed traffic at wrecks before where off-duty medics were already on scene. No big deal. I would want someone to do it for me.
By the way.....why do idiots have to run red lights?? I have been noticing a lot of people running red lights and stop signs lately. Maybe I have become more aware or maybe people realize the cops are not enforcing it.:rolleyes:
My personal experience, having traveled a bit in my time, is that people from different parts of the country and the world treat stop signs, traffic lights, signals, etc. somewhat differently.
In some places, the slow roll and red light running is rampant.
Not to generalize excessively, but Hispanics, in particular, seem to treat traffic laws more as guidelines.
Driving in Central and South America, and consequently any place where large numbers of their former residents may drive, is a challenge. South Florida is a nightmare.
The sad part is, people who ignore those laws are also the most likely to have no license or insurance.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Very interesting replies that run the full spectrum. I guess I'm the type of person who would rather help somebody and damn the consequences. I don't think I could live with myself wondering "if I would have stopped could I have help saved somebody's life." Guess I've been the sheepdog for too long. Anyway, thanks for all of the replies. Regards.....
I consider myself a sheepdog as well, both professionally and personally, I just recognize a need to prioritize my sheep.;) Family and friends first.
In another forum, there is a thread discussing a case where a kid in a little league game was hit with a line drive and severly injured. His parents are suing the league itself, the manufacturer of the bat that the hitter was using, the store that sold the bat, and quite possibly the hot dog stand located at the sports complex....... I am being sarcastic about the hot dog stand, but you get my point. This is the world that we live in, and that has to be factored into any decision to render aid.
I will always call 911, but the decision to render medical care needs to be made very carefully. All of your certs had better be in order, and you better not make the slightest mistake....
Also, keep in mind that a traffic accident is not always a mere traffic accident.... you never know what you are walking up on. I can't tell you how many bad guys (criminals) wreck their cars as they are fleeing the scene of carjackings, robberies, driveby shootings, they just stole the car, you name it...... they are trying to get out of the AO so fast that they wreck their car like an idiot.
I have seen more than one good samaritan stop to help and get carjacked at gunpoint for their troubles.
Just another angle to consider.
doctorrich
06-13-2008, 12:32
Good point, and another rational argument for CCW.
I will always call 911, but the decision to render medical care needs to be made very carefully. All of your certs had better be in order, and you better not make the slightest mistake....
Also, keep in mind that a traffic accident is not always a mere traffic accident.... you never know what you are walking up on. I can't tell you how many bad guys (criminals) wreck their cars as they are fleeing the scene of carjackings, robberies, driveby shootings, they just stole the car, you name it...... they are trying to get out of the AO so fast that they wreck their car like an idiot.
I have seen more than one good samaritan stop to help and get carjacked at gunpoint for their troubles.
Just another angle to consider.
A few months ago I came up on a flipped car at about 5am on my way to the airport. I actually drove right past it at first because it was so dark, it was early - I was still groggy and it took me a second to realize what I'd seen. The car was angled off the road such that it wasn't totally obvious that it was in a ditch - without it's lights on, you wouldn't have seen it at all. So I pulled over about 100 feet in front of the car and called 911. I sat in the car and talked to the operator and described what I could see (which wasn't much as it was VERY dark still). I asked her if I should back up along the shoulder to get a better look, or if I should get out and go see if I could help. She specifically told me to stay in my car and not go anywhere. I wasn't going to be able to help render any aid, the person was better suited where they were, the roads were slipperly and icy, etc. Emergency aid was less than 5 minutes away after my call and she didn't want a bigger problem on her hands if I'd gotten involved. Frankly, it was sort of a relief - because I was VERY nervous at that point that I was going to miss my plane and clearly - I wasn't going to be able to render any medical aid of any real value. So when the ambulance and police all showed up about 3-5 minutes after my call, they waved me on and I left.
What did amaze me was that as I was sitting there, quite a few people drove on past and didn't stop. But I have to give them a bye - I didn't realize what I was seeing either for second, and a car was clearly already stopped (me).
Chris Cram
06-13-2008, 13:39
CCW is becoming a more attractive option…
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/06/attack_on_firsttime_max_rider.html
I suspect that a weapon drawn would have been adequate to chill the situation
but the terminally stupid may be willing to escalate the situation to a gun fight.
… you never know which kid is carrying a hand gun these days …
Portland (Moscow on the Willamette), has turned into a progressive, feminized,
victim rich environment. With the lack of active/involved fathers in many
communities, the kids are falling into the pack mentality.
Note that the women tried to ignore the kids while they were harassing the old woman.
“It’s not my problem; I don’t want to get involved…”
Ignoring the problem is seldom the best solution.
cc
Philkilla
06-15-2008, 12:35
South Florida is a nightmare.
The sad part is, people who ignore those laws are also the most likely to have no license or insurance.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Driving anywhere in Florida is a nightmare Sir.
The sad part is, people who ignore those laws are also the most likely to have no license or insurance.
El Paso TX is notorious for this. One of the first things my superiors explained to me when I went off base was, "Be aware of the vehicles with a Juarez tag".
Didn't take long to find out why.
I consider myself a sheepdog as well, both professionally and personally, I just recognize a need to prioritize my sheep.;) Family and friends first.
In another forum, there is a thread discussing a case where a kid in a little league game was hit with a line drive and severly injured. His parents are suing the league itself, the manufacturer of the bat that the hitter was using, the store that sold the bat, and quite possibly the hot dog stand located at the sports complex....... I am being sarcastic about the hot dog stand, but you get my point. This is the world that we live in, and that has to be factored into any decision to render aid.
I will always call 911, but the decision to render medical care needs to be made very carefully. All of your certs had better be in order, and you better not make the slightest mistake....
Also, keep in mind that a traffic accident is not always a mere traffic accident.... you never know what you are walking up on. I can't tell you how many bad guys (criminals) wreck their cars as they are fleeing the scene of carjackings, robberies, driveby shootings, they just stole the car, you name it...... they are trying to get out of the AO so fast that they wreck their car like an idiot.
I have seen more than one good samaritan stop to help and get carjacked at gunpoint for their troubles.
Just another angle to consider.
As a civilian, the LE in my area can rest assured that there are those like me...who WILL stop and help, and call 911.
I trust my personal situational awareness.:lifter
Holly
As a civilian, the LE in my area can rest assured that there are those like me...who WILL stop and help, and call 911.
I trust my personal situational awareness.:lifter
Holly
So did many of the carjacking/robbery victims that I have met.... but do what you want, I was just throwing out another point to consider.
Here's an example.....
About 6 years ago, a bank that sat right off of a very busy highway got robbed. Two dudes came in, shot off rounds into the ceiling, and took the place for a whatever the tellers had in the drawers.... then they took off.
They got onto the highway, drove a very short distance, then pulled over. One dude jumped out with a gas can in hand, and flagged down a family that thought that this was some poor sap who had run out of fuel.
When the car stopped, the other dude got out of the suspect vehicle, they rushed the family, and carjacked them at gunpoint... took the guy's cellphone too in an attempt to buy time... they forgot to take the woman's. They almost drove off with the kid still in the car, but threw him out after the mother begged and screamed for her child....Off they went. The mother then called 911.
We put 2 and 2 together, and headed to the area of the carjacking as soon as it came out.... we ended up in a high speed chase with the suspects, who ended up being stop sticked after a 30 plus minute chase.
These guys had it planned from the beginning, gas can and all..... the family was just lucky that they weren't trigger happy or didn't drive off with the kid.
I always recommend calling 911... always, but I would never recommend or condone my wife stopping to help someone, especially if she has our kid in the car. The response times for injury accidents in my AO, as is the case on most metro areas, is under 5 minutes.... In most cases, people stopping to help are just getting in the way. Not in every case, but in many.
Like I said, do what you want..... I was just throwing out some info...
So did many of the carjacking/robbery victims that I have met.... but do what you want, I was just throwing out another point to consider.
Like I said, do what you want..... I was just throwing out some info...
Edit to clarify post:
A great point to consider.
Am prepared, to the best of my ability, to deal with a personal threat...be it at home or while traveling.
Holly
Draco771
07-08-2008, 15:45
QP's if I'm stepping out of bounds, please tell me (and as an update on enlistment, going back to MEPS with all new documents etc. etc. and I should be good to go)
But a lot of you talk as though you fear them suing you...
However... Federal laws protect you, IF they give consent for care...
If you are even first aid certified etc. You are supposed to by law tell them you are, and ASK if you can help them... If they say no, DO NOT do jack... If they pass out etc. THEN you're automatically consented to proceed... (Because if you're passed out, it's cosnidered implied consent IF IT'S RELATED TO AN INJURY... just clearing that in case some moron reads this thinking it relates to drunk women passed out women, which I will add, if a woman in any way/shape/form is intoxicated regarding intimate physical contact, cannot consent period, even if you yourself is drunk it's considered rape to have intercourse with an intoxicated woman...) and if they wanted to sue you, you're protected by federal laws...
If you have no certs in atleast CPR, or First Aid, then give no aid period... Or legally they can screw you... Past training is considered irrelivent, Law wants to see a certification certificate or card in atleast something...
Just thought QPs on here would like to know that if you give aid to someone, ASK them if you can help, it is a yes or no answer, for recap, if they say yes, it doesn't matter if you create seconday injuries, it doesn't matter, he/she cannot do anything negative against you...
If they say no... Then do not proceed unless the victim uggghhh... I mean patient... passes out... But it's a catch 22, because if you leave the scene after acknowledgement, even after the persons says no... You can get messed over if anyone identifies you, and something happened to the victim... So no matter what you have to stay there, or in the area, even if EMTs show up...
Atleast that is how I was taught in a few med courses where I live around...
If I've stepped out of bounds, please say so, I greatly apologize if I have...
Also, keep in mind that a traffic accident is not always a mere traffic accident.... you never know what you are walking up on. I can't tell you how many bad guys (criminals) wreck their cars as they are fleeing the scene of carjackings, robberies, driveby shootings, they just stole the car, you name it...... they are trying to get out of the AO so fast that they wreck their car like an idiot.
I have seen more than one good samaritan stop to help and get carjacked at gunpoint for their troubles.
Just another angle to consider.
I was thinking the same thing. 15-20 years ago my Dad's neighbor stopped to assist a women in Swope Jungle and was shot to death by her male accomplice. Kansas City has had serveral instances where someone stops to help and gets car jacked or robbed.
Then again, I have called KCMO Police on three occassions (2) accidents and 1 beating) and have been told basically to go pound sand each time. The worst was a multi car wreak with people strewn all over van Brunt Trafficway near Fairmount Dairy and the 911 operator said no such place existed and hung up...which doesn't really motivate people to assist.
Regardless, instead of ignoring the situation or hoping someone else will assist, you should always ask yourself if I don't who will make the effort to help.
The Reaper
07-08-2008, 19:19
As a former dispatcher, I will say that while sometimes callers do not provide all of the info you would like, most large city dispatch offices today appear to be a job program for the uneducated and unemployed. Many do not even seem to speak English as a primary language.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Just thought QPs on here would like to know that if you give aid to someone, ASK them if you can help, it is a yes or no answer, for recap, if they say yes, it doesn't matter if you create seconday injuries, it doesn't matter, he/she cannot do anything negative against you...
That statement is not correct in anyway shape or form. If you are found negligent then you are free game.
The Reaper
01-06-2009, 08:55
Hats off to all who take the chance and help. It's nice to see that "the motto" is lived by 100% of the time by many and not just in the foreign theatres alone.
Thanks.
You seem to have missed a step from your registration process.
Please review your initial registration message as well as the rules and stickies at the top of the forums.
Then post a message in the proper place introducing yourself.
TR
olhamada
01-06-2009, 09:49
A bad accident happened this morning on the way to work....the police nor the EMS had arrived by the time I got up to the overturned car (it had obviously just happened). There were assholes actually beeping at each other to get aroung the wreck!!! What pisses me off the most is that nobody had gotten out to help...I pulled around checked to make sure the person(s) had been extracted/gotten out from the overturned car and that everbody was okay....What is wrong with people???!!! Rant over.:mad:
85% sheep, 10% wolves, 5% sheepdogs.
There's a special on ABC tonight about this sort of stuff at 1000 pm EST - "What Would You Do?". Closed Circuit TV showing what observers do when they see a guy spike a girls drink in a bar, a person being assaulted, a friend cheating on his wife, etc.... Most people ignore and move on without getting involved.
I have seen this "ME" mentality going on since the 80's, the Me Generation. And I always thought that only in "small town" America, did people actually help each other. When I lived "upstate" from NYC I really thought that was true until I had a flat on the side of the NY Thruway on my way home. I was on the side of the road, a very visible spot, near an exit ramp, in heels and a skirt (as I was coming home from work). Nobody stopped, nobody slowed down and even a state trooper on the other side of the freeway that had stoppd to remove an obstruction from a lane would NOT help me. After about 1/2 hr of trying to remove lugnuts, a tow truck came by. I asked if he had been called and he said no, that he just happen to see me on his way home. He helped, refused money and followed me to the dealership to get a new tire. So much for help in "small town" America.
Remington Raidr
01-06-2009, 12:15
QP's if I'm stepping out of bounds, please tell me (and as an update on enlistment, going back to MEPS with all new documents etc. etc. and I should be good to go)
But a lot of you talk as though you fear them suing you...
However... Federal laws protect you, IF they give consent for care...
If you are even first aid certified etc. You are supposed to by law tell them you are, and ASK if you can help them... If they say no, DO NOT do jack... If they pass out etc. THEN you're automatically consented to proceed... (Because if you're passed out, it's cosnidered implied consent IF IT'S RELATED TO AN INJURY... just clearing that in case some moron reads this thinking it relates to drunk women passed out women, which I will add, if a woman in any way/shape/form is intoxicated regarding intimate physical contact, cannot consent period, even if you yourself is drunk it's considered rape to have intercourse with an intoxicated woman...) and if they wanted to sue you, you're protected by federal laws...
If you have no certs in atleast CPR, or First Aid, then give no aid period... Or legally they can screw you... Past training is considered irrelivent, Law wants to see a certification certificate or card in atleast something...
Just thought QPs on here would like to know that if you give aid to someone, ASK them if you can help, it is a yes or no answer, for recap, if they say yes, it doesn't matter if you create seconday injuries, it doesn't matter, he/she cannot do anything negative against you...
If they say no... Then do not proceed unless the victim uggghhh... I mean patient... passes out... But it's a catch 22, because if you leave the scene after acknowledgement, even after the persons says no... You can get messed over if anyone identifies you, and something happened to the victim... So no matter what you have to stay there, or in the area, even if EMTs show up...
Atleast that is how I was taught in a few med courses where I live around...
If I've stepped out of bounds, please say so, I greatly apologize if I have...
Lotta guidance here. What federal laws are you referring to? In Re a subsequent post, as a former dispatcher, when I call for service, I always ask the call-taker to repeat their name or operator number, and I close out the call by thanking them by name or number. IF THEY HUNG UP ON ME I would be headed down there to speak with the supervisor on duty about it. There are some real rockheads in that job, but its ALL recorded, so you can follow-up.
....until I had a flat on the side of the NY Thruway on my way home. I was on the side of the road, a very visible spot, near an exit ramp, in heels and a skirt (as I was coming home from work). ......
Not digging on you Saoirse but.... A reminder to the females - PRACTICE.
You should all know where the spare is, how to get it down, remove the hubcap cover, loosen the nuts, jack the car, change the tire and replace everything. Righty tighty - Lefty Loosey.
The next time you go to throw out a pair of old flats or sneakers throw them in your trunk along with a piece of pipe that fits over the end of the lug wrench and gives you about 2 extra feet of leverage.
If you can't remember to change batteries in a flash light get a light you can plug in a dash jack and run out to your work area - throw that in the trunk also. You can go right far on a can of "fix-a-flat". Throw that in as well - usually in a cheap roadside emergency kit.
The middle of the Green Swamp is chancy on cell coverage and if you get a flat there you're stuck until somebody will stop - don't know who - or you fix it yourself.
You people who've never done it should break out your car's instruction book this weekend and try and change a tire. See how long it takes you. While you're out there pop the hood and take a look see.
dr. mabuse
01-06-2009, 13:30
30 years ago, my older borther and I witnessed a car crash in Tyler, TX that tipped over an large, old Oldsmobile on its side in the intersection. My brother and I ran over to help. There was gasoline and fumes all over. My brother climbed on top, switched off the ignition and we got the elderly lady and her teenage grandson out ASAP. I got the water hose from the corner house and hosed down the corner as best as I could.
People were honking, trying to drive by, every one else stood around and watched and played Monday morning quarterbacks. We were criticized by onlookers, Fire Dept. didn't like me washing gas down the drain, homeowner didn't like her hose being used, and the elderly lady's family threatened to sue for some time believing some of her and the grandson's injuries were inflicted by our speedy extraction techniques. Not one other person stepped forward to assist. :rolleyes:
Actually, the ME mentality has been around since Cain slayed Abel. Luke 10:27-37 perhaps.
Not digging on you Saoirse but.... A reminder to the females - PRACTICE.
You should all know where the spare is, how to get it down, remove the hubcap cover, loosen the nuts, jack the car, change the tire and replace everything. Righty tighty - Lefty Loosey.
The next time you go to throw out a pair of old flats or sneakers throw them in your trunk along with a piece of pipe that fits over the end of the lug wrench and gives you about 2 extra feet of leverage.
If you can't remember to change batteries in a flash light get a light you can plug in a dash jack and run out to your work area - throw that in the trunk also. You can go right far on a can of "fix-a-flat". Throw that in as well - usually in a cheap roadside emergency kit.
The middle of the Green Swamp is chancy on cell coverage and if you get a flat there you're stuck until somebody will stop - don't know who - or you fix it yourself.
You people who've never done it should break out your car's instruction book this weekend and try and change a tire. See how long it takes you. While you're out there pop the hood and take a look see.
Pete... I know you aren't digging on me. And you are absolutely correct in your advice. It was one of those times that instead of following my 7 P's, I acted like a total "girl". Normally I didn't dress that way for work (jeans, steel toed boots, and a shirt), it was a meeting day with the big shots. I just couldn't get the lugnuts off! :p
The Reaper
01-06-2009, 14:06
Pete... I know you aren't digging on me. And you are absolutely correct in your advice. It was one of those times that instead of following my 7 P's, I acted like a total "girl". Normally I didn't dress that way for work (jeans, steel toed boots, and a shirt), it was a meeting day with the big shots. I just couldn't get the lugnuts off! :p
This is a good point for everyone here.
When getting tires rotated, replaced, or repaired, request that they torque the lug nut to specs.
If you hear an air wrench being used, visually inspect the lugs to make sure that they are not stripped or shoulders rounded off before leaving the facility, and get out your tire tool/lug wrench at your first opportunity to make sure that you can get them off. If I am working on my own tires, I usually put anti-seize on the lug threads before tightening them securely.
A cheater pipe is a real help, especially with the tiny tire tools being provided today. Plus your pipe can be handy for a number of other "being prepared" purposes.
I am also a big fan of fix-a-flat cans for emergencies, but it will not always help with sidewall repairs, and your tire dealership that has to repair it will hate you.
Finally, remember if you lose a tire because the lug nuts fell off, you can remove a nut from each of the remaining wheels and put the tire (or your spare) back on temporarily. And remember to check the other lugs for tighness as well.
Back on topic, there are probably quite a few Good Samaritans out there who were sued or arrested based on complaints from people they stopped to help. If I see a person with a breakdown or a kid who looks lost, I am a lot more likely to stop if my wife is with me than if I am alone. There are a lot of nut cases out there. And as a smart man said, don't confuse your enthusiasm with a capability. 'Nuff said about that.
Best of luck.
TR
This is a good point for everyone here.
When getting tires rotated, replaced, or repaired, request that they torque the lug nut to specs.
If you hear an air wrench being used, visually inspect the lugs to make sure that they are not stripped or shoulders rounded off before leaving the facility, and get out your tire tool/lug wrench at your first opportunity to make sure that you can get them off. If I am working on my own tires, I usually put anti-seize on the lug threads before tightening them securely.
A cheater pipe is a real help, especially with the tiny tire tools being provided today. Plus your pipe can be handy for a number of other "being prepared" purposes.
I am also a big fan of fix-a-flat cans for emergencies, but it will not always help with sidewall repairs, and your tire dealership that has to repair it will hate you.
Finally, remember if you lose a tire because the lug nuts fell off, you can remove a nut from each of the remaining wheels and put the tire (or your spare) back on temporarily. And remember to check the other lugs for tighness as well.
Back on topic, there are probably quite a few Good Samaritans out there who were sued or arrested based on complaints from people they stopped to help. If I see a person with a breakdown or a kid who looks lost, I am a lot more likely to stop if my wife is with me than if I am alone. There are a lot of nut cases out there. And as a smart man said, don't confuse your enthusiasm with a capability. 'Nuff said about that.
Best of luck.
TR
TR Sir,
Great advice! Thank you for posting this information, as my enthusiasm vs. actual ability is sometimes overshot.:o
Have never inquired for the shop guys to "torque the lug nut to specs."
Will do so from now on.
Thank you Sir,
Holly
AngelsSix
01-07-2009, 07:15
[QUOTE]Pete... I know you aren't digging on me. And you are absolutely correct in your advice. It was one of those times that instead of following my 7 P's, I acted like a total "girl". Normally I didn't dress that way for work (jeans, steel toed boots, and a shirt), it was a meeting day with the big shots. I just couldn't get the lugnuts off! [\QUOTE]
I got a flat on my SUV when I was in Jax once, just as I pulled in the gate, the guard noted that it was flat (I never felt it). I pulled off to the side parking area at the gate and commenced to getting the spare down from under the truck (not an easy task) and trying to get the lug nuts off. I had a REALLY hard time with them. Someone finally stopped and helped me get them off.
After that I never had another flat, but it struck me as being a potentially bad situation if I had gotten stuck in a bad area at night.
Interesting article/blog on Good Samaritanism.
http://www.ems1.com/survivability/articles/446477-Good-Samaritanism-Died-in-a-Car-Crash
Of course it's CA.
Interesting article/blog on Good Samaritanism.
http://www.ems1.com/survivability/articles/446477-Good-Samaritanism-Died-in-a-Car-Crash
Of course it's CA.
Pete,
Thank You for posting that. Here is some food for thought along those lines...
A True Story:
On November 17th, 1992, a Ford Escort was traveling the speed limit down a freeway at 11:00 pm during a very large rain storm. The driver was not drunk or on drugs, but did overcorrect the steering wheel while changing lanes, and the vehicle rolled end-over-end several times.
The passenger, not wearing a seatbelt, was ejected through the drivers side window at first contact, and was thrown onto the highway. The vehicle eventually came to rest on the opposite side of the highway, with the driver near death.
At this time, another car with a husband and wife came upon the accident. They were both Registered Nurses, and began the dual task of performing CPR on the driver, and locating and securing the passenger...(by way of flagging down a semi-truck to jackknife, and keep traffic from proceeding.)
The truck-driver radioed for 911, and a helicopter for the driver and ambulance for the passenger were soon dispatched.
Had any time passed without the assistance of the nurses, the driver would have died on scene. Instead the driver, though now disabled, and passenger lived to fight another day, all thanks to their help.
Holly;)
My buddy was driving a GV around a bend, it was raining and he lost control. Rolled the F350 over and over. It came to rest on the edge of the woods, upside down. He crawled out, and made his way to the road. He stood on the side of the road for 20 mins with blood running down his face and arms until he was able to wave someone down. That is with the truck upside down in plain view. I just couldn't believe it.
But, on the other hand, I've heard multiple stories about people perfroming CPR, then getting sued b/c they broke the person's ribs while saving their life.
I think it boils down to this, "Something for nothing" generation. If it won't benefit them, then they aren't going to do it. If they see a way to get some money from sueing someone, then they are going to do it. Not everyone is like this, but the people that are, make me sick.
That has to be one of the great things as a QP. Going to other countries, helping them out, and them being sincerely thankful for all your help. I could only imagine what that feels like.
The Reaper
01-11-2009, 09:58
This just happened to me this past week.
I was driving my son home from Boy Scouts, it was about 2030 hours, light drizzle off and on, we were on a major divided lane road in Southern Pines which has a median of large pine trees.
A person stepped out of the median into the road waving arms and screaming. She was wearing jeans and a white t-shirt with a lot of red on it.
I debated whether I should stop, and since I had the boy along, decided to do so. Prior to pulling over, I did remove my pistol from the holster, since it is hard to draw while seated.
Since the trees were close to the roadway, I was unable to get completely off the road, and so I hit my emergency flashers.
Turns out it was a young girl who was wet, scared, and pretty hysterical, she said that she had been at a local medical center and decided to walk to her mother's house a few hours before, got lost, and that she had been trying to get someone to stop for over an hour. She was about 3 miles from the hospital, 4 miles from her mother's house, and 25 miles from her dad's house, where she lived.
We had to circle around and find a spot to get off the road. I tried to get her to calm down and then let her use my cell to call home, but no one was answering. By this point, I had decided that she was probably a high school kid, and was only a year or two older than my own daughter, and looked quite a bit like her.
There were not a lot of good options at this point, so I offered to drive her back to the hospital if she wanted, and she accepted. Again, if I were alone, I would probably not have done this because of what could have happened or have been alleged to have happened. Frankly, while I would hope that my own daughter would have better sense that to try and walk an unknown route to a location where someone may, or may not be at home, I would certainly hope that she would not get into a car with a strange man, even if he had a child with him.
I still kept a close watch on her as we drove her to the hospital, by then she had calmed down quite a bit. I recommended that she check in with the security staff at the ER, and that they would take care of her till she could get linked up with her family. We dropped her at the ER door, volunteered to walk her in, she declined, and we waited for her to get inside before driving off.
I was surprised that no one had stopped before us, and she had clearly been trying to get help for some time. My son and I did have a good discussion about it on the way home, and the potential risks of picking up a stranger on the road at night, even if she (or especially because) was a teenaged girl. I remember when dispatching, having to log in mileage and times for officers transporting females to avoid potential allegations. The son mentioned that when he first saw her screaming hysterically, he expected a mass murderer to be chasing her.
I think this was one of the cases that worked out well for everyone involved. The point of the story is that there were a lot of good reasons not to let a hysterical teenage girl into my car. While I could have called for the local police to come get her, that would probably have scared her further, and I did not really think having her stand outside the car in the drizzle for the 30 minutes or more that it would have taken a car to respond was a good idea, nor would I have wanted someone to do that to my own daughter, in that situation. It would have been better than driving on by, or pulling away and calling the cops, but not by much. Unfortunately, psychos, bad people, and lawsuits have made Good Samaritanism subject to the same risk assessment as many other activities. It is sad, but that is where the world is headed these days.
TR
Just got into my house. My hold baggage just got picked up this morning for my next PCS to sunnier climes. 5 minutes after the movers left they came back to the front door telling me a truck has rolled three houses down (we're in Kenutcky country, that's a quarter mile) and the girl driving was pinned in.
I grabbed blankets, called 911, and hauled ass down the road.
Got to the truck, 5 dudes stading around trying to figure out what to do next. She was pinned under the dash and the truck was on it's passenger side. I jumped in through the sunroof and helped prop her up, talk to her, and support her body weight so she wasn't hanging by her dislocated knee until EMS cut her out. It took 30 minutes to cut her out.
Nobody else helped me until EMS showed up. I was pissed. I still am.
Just got into my house. My hold baggage just got picked up this morning for my next PCS to sunnier climes. 5 minutes after the movers left they came back to the front door telling me a truck has rolled three houses down (we're in Kenutcky country, that's a quarter mile) and the girl driving was pinned in.
I grabbed blankets, called 911, and hauled ass down the road.
Got to the truck, 5 dudes stading around trying to figure out what to do next. She was pinned under the dash and the truck was on it's passenger side. I jumped in through the sunroof and helped prop her up, talk to her, and support her body weight so she wasn't hanging by her dislocated knee until EMS cut her out. It took 30 minutes to cut her out.
Nobody else helped me until EMS showed up. I was pissed. I still am.
RTK,
The service you provided to help the injured individual is, without question, very honorable, and I am proud to know that folks like you still walk this planet.:lifter
Reminds me how the TV would look today, if no-one helped the victims of the plane crash.:rolleyes:
Holly
None of this behavior is new.
When I was in college in the late 80's, I was attending my freshman year at Minneapolis Community College in downtown Minneapolis. On my way home from school one morning (my only class that day due to inclement weather), I took some short cuts home on some side roads, all through residential and main arteries. Driving down a small, winding hill, the car in front of me suddenly slammed on his brakes. I was several car lengths behind him and tapped my brakes gently. My car went into a skid anyway. He was at a full stop (nobody in front of him and only oncoming traffic and a car on a side street waiting to merge into traffic). The guy sat there, I continued to skid. I tried correcting the skid as we are taught and but to no avail, the ice was that bad. I had to avoid hitting him and skidded up on the curb, hit a sign, then hit a tree. The sign had broke off, hit the windshield, my seatbelt didn't hold well, my head hit the steering wheel. Luckily, I wasn't knocked out but blood was flowing. I looked up, saw the guy sitting there, motor running, the car on the side street merging into our uncoming traffic in front of him. They both looked at me. The car merged and moved on, the guy in the "dead stop" moved on (after he looked back at me).
As I sat there, trying to clear my mind, clear the blood from my face and gather myself... people just continued to drive. I finally got out of the car after a few minutes, and stood behind my car and tried to flag somebody down (I didnt want to sit in it because it was steaming pretty bad). It was FRIGGED (well into the minus range of temp) outside, and NOBODY would stop. Finally after what seemed like infinity, an LEO drove by and turned around. Thank God he was a goodhearted soul (I was in a very wealthy suburb where the cops were not known for being polite or helpful unless your income was visible by the car you drove or the clothes you wore).
That was in 1988. I remember it like it happened yesterday, not because of the accident so much but because of how inconsiderate, thoughtless and uncaring people were. This was before cellphones were in everyone's car or hand!!!
In this thread I have seen quite a few posts that argue that lawsuits and lawyers are, at least partly, responsible for the unwillingness of people to help others in need. Well, I am a lawyer and of course I’m partly bias towards my profession. But I do think that some lawyers AND their clients take advantage of these situations and file frivolous lawsuits, so both at fault here. Also, part of the blame must be handed down to the judges that should dismiss these lawsuits from the start and as a penalty for filing such a claim should make the plaintiff pay the legal expenses of the defendant, and refer the filing attorney to the state bar for disciplinary action.
Just my $0.000002 worth.
In this thread I have seen quite a few posts that argue that lawsuits and lawyers are, at least partly, responsible for the unwillingness of people to help others in need. Well, I am a lawyer and of course I’m partly bias towards my profession. But I do think that some lawyers AND their clients take advantage of these situations and file frivolous lawsuits, so both at fault here. Also, part of the blame must be handed down to the judges that should dismiss these lawsuits from the start and as a penalty for filing such a claim should make the plaintiff pay the legal expenses of the defendant, and refer the filing attorney to the state bar for disciplinary action.
Just my $0.000002 worth.
Counsel,
This thread does contain references to lawyers painted in a negative light...(though the ones I know are great folks!:))
Am just hoping that in this thread the good stories outweigh the bad ones, and give some hope that there are those like RTK and TR that choose to do the right thing.;)
Just my .02.
Holly
:mad:
An 81-year-old woman, who died after being mugged in the street, was ignored by passers-by as she cried for help.
Police said that Molly Morgan sus*tained head injuries suffered in the attack on her from behind - yet people who could have helped her thought she was drunk.
She was left on the pavement for 10 minutes before eventually being taken to hospital on Thursday evening, but died the following day from her injuries.
A post-mortem examination gave cause of death as head injuries. She also had a broken left arm and mul*tiple fractures to the left side of her face after being dragged to the ground during the attack.
Read on.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1121642/Woman-81-killed-mugging-ignored-passers-lay-dying-street.html
If this happened to my grandma.. oooh....they would be begging for hell to take them in!! :mad: