View Full Version : Suicide Bombing Aims for Bhutto; Kills at least 123
x-factor
10-18-2007, 19:48
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21344367/
She just returned from exile to leader her party in Parliamentary elections in January. She hadn't been in the country for even 24 hours yet.
82ndtrooper
10-18-2007, 21:13
I was wondering how long it would take. then heard it this morning on Fox.
Guess their bang men were anxious to meet Allah.
Shocking
126 dead - seems alot for a small and a larger bomb?
Bhutto said before:"I am not scared. I am thinking of my mission" - guess she'll be revising that train of thought!
CPTAUSRET
10-19-2007, 01:33
Shocking
126 dead - seems alot for a small and a larger bomb?
Bhutto said before:"I am not scared. I am thinking of my mission" - guess she'll be revising that train of thought!
Perverse, depraved!
But I would not call it "Shocking"!
Perverse, depraved!
But I would not call it "Shocking"!
Perhaps shocking then, given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
Either way, to me at least, outside of Iraq/Afghan, 130 killed in a suicide bomb attack still seems shocking.
Perhaps shocking then, given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
Either way, to me at least, outside of Iraq/Afghan, 130 killed in a suicide bomb attack still seems shocking.
Not sure I follow your logic. Isn't the bombing to be blamed on the bombers?
82ndtrooper
10-19-2007, 19:08
Shocking
126 dead - seems alot for a small and a larger bomb?
Bhutto said before:"I am not scared. I am thinking of my mission" - guess she'll be revising that train of thought!
What is truely shocking is to watch as 3,000 American citizens are killed with 4 Jetliners piloted by Islamic radicals under the direction of Bin Ladin on September 11, 2001.
We haven't forgotten.
60_Driver
10-19-2007, 20:15
Perhaps shocking then, given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
WTF?!?! What color is that kool-aid so I can stay faaar away...?
I watched the video on Fox tonight. The cowards detonated the bomb in a crowed corner during the parade. We know about deaths but what about wounded, the explosion was a lot bigger than a grenade and was at waist level. We all know that an elevated burst causes more damage than a ground burst. I am just glad that the lady had the guts to go back and help her nation.
clapdoc sends.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
WTF? Lets keep this in perspective - the bombers are responsible, not her. You cannot blame an individual for breathing clean air.
Perhaps shocking then, given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
Either way, to me at least, outside of Iraq/Afghan, 130 killed in a suicide bomb attack still seems shocking.
I believe the UK was warned as were the rest of us to convert or be killed several times since the origional fatwa - a threat that continues to this day.
So, ...have you converted?
If not, then perhaps in great measure, it is you, who is responsible for the 7-7 bombings, the attempts on 7-21, Operation Overt, Tiger Tiger Club/Glasgow and the continued plethora of attempts to kill more of your countrymen/woman that have been thwarted.
Its not the number of people who perish that should be shocking to you at all. "Suicide bombing", as any true LEO understands is pure unadulterated MURDER - committed by a MURDERER who needs to be held accountable.
By your logic, the 2 retired LEO's (working as armored car guards) who were ambushed and murdered here a few weeks ago were responsible for their own deaths, as clearly they were categorically warned that transporting money might make them a target.......
Not sure I follow your logic. Isn't the bombing to be blamed on the bombers?
Let me try and clarify my point gents, as we seem adrift here a little.
Jatx - Yes, of course it's the bombers' actions responsible. So my point, and it wasn't a strong belief, was if Bhutto had heeded the warning allegedly given, presumably the bombs would not have gone off.
I appreciate this doesn't really mitigate the situation, but food for thought perhaps.
The further point i was making was, although I'm certainly not over informed on all things incendiary, to me, it seemed like a big toll for a small incident, yes?
82nd Trooper- Yes, without any doubt at all, 911 was on a whole new scale of tragedy compared to this. It is no way lessened, and in no way forgotten. RIP.
60-driver & JMI - see above response to jatx.
Casey - You seem to have a vivid imagination. You have taken something out of context here. It seems a bizarre suggestion that I am in some way responsible for anything remotely linked to either terrorism or religious extremism.
My point is obviously misunderstood. It's not one trying to hold ANY bomber unaccountable. Not by a long shot. Yes, murder is murder, by one or by many. It is no less tolerable for one reason over another.
My point, however tenuous, was simply proposing that had Bhutto heeded warning, perhaps Innocent people would still be here.
You further have no need to remind me of the terrorism present here. It is very much in everyones' minds still.
I'm sorry that two LEO's families are now without loved ones. But if my analogy is applied correctly to their situation, if they had a 'strong' warning of an impending ambush, maybe they would have made provision for it. And maybe things might have turned out different.
I hope this clarifies my thinking and restores me to the good guys again!
Seraph
Let me get this straight, you think she should have heeded the warnings of terrorists??? And because she didn't she is somehow responsible for the death of those innocent civilans??
If we all heeded the warnings given to us by those we are currently fighting, this world be a lot different than it is today, and not for the better.
This woman had the guts to stand up for what she thinks is right, and now you are laying the deaths of 123 civilians at her feet? What you are suggesting sir is cowardice!!!! "Because I am afraid of what the bad guys are threatening to do to me, I am not going to do what I should" In my estimation there is nothing more cowardly than that. Let someone stand up for what is right, while you live under the protection they provide. Cowardice pure and simple.
Seraph
Let me get this straight, you think she should have heeded the warnings of terrorists??? And because she didn't she is somehow responsible for the death of those innocent civilans??
Well, yes and no.
I'm simply suggesting 'what if'. If you note the tone of my post, you'll see I'm not making a factual statement so speak, but merely proposing it by saying 'perhaps'.
Technically, it wasn't the terrorists warning her, but her own people. But it amounts to the same thing I guess. On reflection, I guess she can't be held accountable. After all, she didn't make those civilians be there. They were there out of choice.
I appreciate your point, and it is a fair point.
To be honest, my primary point in this thread wasn't about fault, it was about the numbers involved.
My point, however tenuous, was simply proposing that had Bhutto heeded warning, perhaps Innocent people would still be here.
That is exactly what the terrorists are trying to say.
I was watching BBC the day before she flew into Pakistan from exile and they were praising her as though she was the next messiah who was going to save pakistan and restore democracy.
I think they have a short memory; this was the woman who was found guilty of serious corruption charges and her husband was jailed for the same thing.
How fast they forget WHY she was in exile in the first place.
Pakistan: what a mess.
.... On reflection, I guess she can't be held accountable. After all, she didn't make those civilians be there. They were there out of choice......
Son, best if you convert to Islam now. After all, if we were not non-muslims the world would be at peace, or so they say.
And also best if you get rid of all your worldly goods, after all, if you're robbed it would be your fault also.
Pete
Perhaps shocking then, given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless.
Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
Either way, to me at least, outside of Iraq/Afghan, 130 killed in a suicide bomb attack still seems shocking.
There is alot you dont understand about muslims and politics. They would have been there in large numbers even if she told them not to turn up due to the threat of attack....emotions are high in occassions like this and they get very passionate and riled up when it comes to "leaders" and religion.
And a large majority tend to be people from her province or village who come out to support her because they are her grass roots supporters and they are vital to her political ambitions.
Its hard to explain but..its just the way it is.
Whats sad is you see muslims killing muslims. Thats the big issue here for me.
The Reaper
10-21-2007, 11:04
Casey - You seem to have a vivid imagination. You have taken something out of context here. It seems a bizarre suggestion that I am in some way responsible for anything remotely linked to either terrorism or religious extremism.
You need to check the attitude when dealing with a QP. A little respect would go a long way.
Your remark sounded a lot like you were blaming the victims and acting as an apologist for the murderers.
You are a guest here. Remember that.
TR
There is alot you dont understand about muslims and politics
Absolutely hoot, not claiming to be an expert on either topic. Appreciate your point also.
You need to check the attitude when dealing with a QP. A little respect would go a long way.
Your remark sounded a lot like you were blaming the victims and acting as an apologist for the murderers.
You are a guest here. Remember that.TR
TR - I think my remarks have been misconstrued, and believe me, I have TOTAL respect for you (QP)guys on here. I need no reminder of my status.
However, to link someone with either terrorism or religious extremism based on a forum post, would be unfair ?
As I said in a post below, murder for whatever reasons, by whoever, is in tolerable, and must be accounted for.
Absolutely hoot, not claiming to be an expert on either topic. Appreciate your point also.
TR - I think my remarks have been misconstrued, and believe me, I have TOTAL respect for you (QP)guys on here. I need no reminder of my status.
However, to link someone with either terrorism or religious extremism based on a forum post, would be unfair ?
As I said in a post below, murder for whatever reasons, by whoever, is in tolerable, and must be accounted for.
Sorry. I think I shouldnt have said "alot of you dont understand.."
That was a bit too much and I apologize. What I should have said was perhaps "you need to understand the...." instead..
Sorry if I came on a bit harsh..didnt mean it..
It seems a bizarre suggestion that I am in some way responsible for anything remotely linked to either terrorism or religious extremism. !
Seraph, you stated given that Bhutto was categorically warned of very possible bombings. By decided to proceed regardless. Seems she sign those victims' death warrant there and then.
My point was, if you're going to blame Bhutto for those deaths by not heeding prompted warnings from the ISI or threats via the JEM, then why stop there? Clearly, the US, UK, and others who have not mass converted and accepted shiria law have been warned of the same fate multiple times, have we not.
If I follow your logic here, then it will be we, the non-appeasers who fail to convert and heed said warnings, that will bear the brunt of responsibility when struck again, would we not?
I was not linking you physically to "either terrorism or religious extremism" but simply pointing out that via this (your) logic tree, you, I, and everyone else who rejects the appeasment package should be held responsible. And I think that is just pure bull....
Hoot - No worries mate : )
Cassey - Accept your point. Think my logic was probably badly conveyed here. Agree, we should not bow to pressure to conform with these religious/political fringes.
I was watching BBC the day before she flew into Pakistan from exile and they were praising her as though she was the next messiah who was going to save pakistan and restore democracy.
I think they have a short memory; this was the woman who was found guilty of serious corruption charges and her husband was jailed for the same thing.
How fast they forget WHY she was in exile in the first place.
Pakistan: what a mess.
Yea, there are plenty in Pakistan who aren't holding off any hope with Bhutto back. Butto, Nawaz, or Musharraf - they really don't have a choice. Considering how deeply the military has its tentacles into every aspect of Pakistan's civic structure, I think reform can truly begin only when the vast military apparatus decides to answer to civilian rule, not the other way around. They're involved in everything from industry, real estate, agriculture, politics, religion, etc. Pakistan's center of gravity has always been its military. Adding the fact that its military has played with the fundamentalist Islam side, it really does break down to one concept: a mess (or shit sandwich).
While Benazir may be the 'darling' of liberal western folk who see her as a woman and a muslim that can rule, those folks don't seem to understand that she's actually had a chance to do good, yet consciously did some of the worst to undermine the very institution that supported her and could have won her longevity, yet she scammed it. Leaders of republics need to understand they are stewards of their people, trusted with governance. It isn't perfect anywhere, but Pakistan among other places represented the worst of elected leaders looting their nation.
I am "fortunate" in the sense I have grown up with muslims (pakistanis, malays, bajau, suluk's, orang sungai) and have been exposed to a vast variety of "intellects" who have absolutely nothing positive to say about democracy. You can argue till the cows come home about terrorism and how silly the idea of Jihad is in this day and age and they always keep going back to the same topic over and over again: Palestine and Isreal.
For them, that justifies whatever they do and they refuse to accept they are wrong to kill innocent people or to create chaos and mayhem all over the world with their political and social ideologies.
And then there is the other half who believe anyone who isnt a muslim, is an outsider or an infidel.
Its impossible to reason with them or to get them to understand or even value human life.
Their minds were made up at an early age and they are thick skinned. The only way MAYBE around this would be to solve the Palestinian issue but then, get ready for the next excuse: Iraq and Afghanistan.
When I refer to the people I talk to or know, it also includes scholars and university educated government funded graduates who even studied in the United States and the UK.
Thats why, I believe you are dealing, even in Pakistan with people who dont want to hear or understand logic. For them, they are right and everyone else in this world is wrong. And they can care less for a brotherhood of christians, sikhs, buddist, jews or hindus.
Its Islam vs the world for them.