Green Berets Face Hearing

[ender]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/us/18hearing.html?ex=1347768000&en=fbe8fa2244e3ba5c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

There's definitely more to this than meets the eye. Best of luck to MSgt A and Capt S. And all the other members of ODA374.

[82ndtrooper]

Personally, I would not post anything from the NYTimes on this websight, but that's just me.

[Warrior-Mentor]

MSG Anderson worked for me in Yuma and is a great NCO.
I hope this works out for him.

<BREAK>

RL/AL: Please PM any advice I can pass on...

[NousDefionsDoc]

Is that the same General that ran the Marines out of country?

[82ndtrooper]

Is that the same General that ran the Marines out of country?

According to the article, yes it is.

[Pete]

From the Fayetteville Observer

http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=272793

They got "cakked" by the defense team.

[incommin]

The damage is already done. This will be in the mind of every SF soldier who is placed in a similar situation......

Jim

[abc_123]

I can almost assure you that it was in the mind of some BEFORE this situation. :mad:

[NousDefionsDoc]

“Why are we here?” asked Maj. Lance Daniels, the military lawyer representing Anderson.

ROTFLMAO! Finally, a lawyer I can relate to....

[CPTAUSRET]

Is this an Art 32 investigation, or has it progressed past that phase?

[incommin]

Is this an Art 32 investigation, or has it progressed past that phase?
__________________


Art 32! But it still sucks!

Jim

[CPTAUSRET]

Is this an Art 32 investigation, or has it progressed past that phase?
__________________


Art 32! But it still sucks!

Jim


UNDERSTOOD!

I was subjected to two Art 32 investigations during my rather stormy (non illustrious) career, one of which was the result of throwing a dirtbag off the top of a two story guard bunker in VN.

I caught him asleep on guard on three different occasions, wrote him up the first time, Can Tho 1969, no one wanted to make waves nothing happened to him. The second time I ordered him to meet me behind the Op's tent the next morning, "Don't wear a shirt, I wont either!" I told him. He got a chance to kick a CWO's ass, he failed...Caught him again, asleep on top of the guard tower, on the sandbags and put him over the side. It was wrong. I knew it. I would do it again!

Didn't mean to hijack this thread, I am praying these two warriors are vindicated!

[echoes]

IMHO,

These Soldiers are the best at what They do!!!
Let Them do Their jobs, for cryin' out loud!:confused:

Why in the world would we subject Our Bravest to this idiotic inquiry?

They are the ones fighting this war...They're not sitting behind a desk somewhere, collecting bonus miles!:mad:

Holly

[deanwells]

:confused:

Mark Waple, a civilian lawyer representing Captain Staffel, said the charges against his client and Sergeant Anderson carry a whiff of “military politics.” In an interview, Mr. Waple said that General Kearney proceeded with murder charges against the two soldiers even after an investigation by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command concluded in April that the shooting had been “justifiable homicide.”


If CID cleared it, than why the fuss. I see the General, just recieved his third star. Is there any relation to his actions against SOF forces?

DW

[The Reaper]

:confused:

If CID cleared it, than why the fuss. I see the General, just recieved his third star. Is there any relation to his actions against SOF forces?

DW

Yep.

Clearly, wrongfully persecuting SF soldiers is viewed as career enhancing by his superiors.

TR

[deanwells]

Yep.

Clearly, wrongfully persecuting SF soldiers is viewed as career enhancing by his superiors.

TR

Yep, That's what I thought. It stinks that he's playing the game at the expense of guys doing their jobs. Unbelievable.:mad:

[TooTall]

He'll probably be a guest speaker at the democratic National Convention once he retires.

[jwt5]

He'll probably be a guest speaker at the democratic National Convention once he retires.

Sort of like Gen. Clark? I caught him on the Daily Show the other night and when asked about General Patraeus' report, you could tell he was biting his tongue. However he did talk about the time when Gen. Clark was a Colonel and Gen. Patraeus was one of his Captains... he basically said Gen. Patraeus was in charge of getting him coffee.... :eek:

If I can find the video I'll add it...

[brianksain]

They truly need to quit trying to make policemen out of our soldiers.

Methinks they will never learn.

PC is killing this country.

[AxeMan]

I spoke to MSG Anderson yesterday. He is in good spirits considering the situation. I have known him since 1995 and he has always been one of the best among us. His biggest concern about all of this is that he is afraid that guys will hesitate in the future because of this situation. I think that he and CPT S will prevail and be vindicated. I was briefed on what happened by the Bn JAG a couple of months ago and I'm sure that they were operating inside the ROE, same as what the CID investigation found. We are all behind them.
Could have been you, could have been me.

.............MDW

[tom kelly]

His name is Frank H. Kearney,and he just got his 3rd star.Another example of a LIBERAL POLITICAN masquerading as a soldier,He should resign from the U S Army today and run for public office.However he will probably hang around and kiss ass for a 4th star so he can retire with a pension of around $135,000/year and go on the TV circut as a consultant and blab about his career and service.DISGUSTING that he does not back up REAL SOLDIERS and PROFESSIONALS who are unfortunate to serve under him.I bet his decision to have murder charges brought against Captain Staffel and Master Sgt. Anderson are a direct result of the aftermath of the Pat Tlllman affair,where a General officer was held accountable for the misleading results of the investigation into Tillman's unfortunate death.Regards and Best Of Luck to Captain Staffel and Master Sgt. Anderson...Regards,tom kelly

[kgoerz]

His name is Frank H. Kearney,and he just got his 3rd star.Another example of a LIBERAL POLITICAN masquerading as a soldier,He should resign from the U S Army today and run for public office.However he will probably hang around and kiss ass for a 4th star so he can retire with a pension of around $135,000/month and go on the TV circut as a consultant and blab about his career and service.DISGUSTING that he does not back up REAL SOLDIERS and PROFESSIONALS who are unfortunate to serve under him.I bet his decision to have mueder charges brought against Captain Staffel and Master Sgt. Anderson are a direct result of the aftermath of the Pat Tlllman affair,where a General officer was held accountable for the misleading results of the investigation into Tillman's unfortunate death.Regards and Best Of Luck to Captain Staffel and Master Sgt. Anderson...Regards,tom kelly

Like I said in the other thread. In the Book Lone Survivor. Fear of being prosecuted and sent to jail was the reason they let the three sheep herders go. Couple of hours later three SEALS were dead for it. He mentions it throughout the Book. He states he go's to bed every night agonizing over the decision. He blames himself because he was the tie breaking vote. But he makes it very clear why they let the herders go.
They knew the Taliban would find the Bodies and Parade them in front of Cameras. They even discussed killing them with a knife so forensics couldn't pin it on them. But they didn't want to live with this secrete the rest of their lives.
One thing he said. According to the rules it was OK to kill these herders who stumbled upon their position. Not that it would of protected them from charges.
What do's that rule state? My guess, holding them as prisoners or releasing them would put your Team at risk, more then likely resulting in death. Can you legally kill these people in this situation. Anyone?

[82ndtrooper]

Like I said in the other thread. In the Book Lone Survivor. Fear of being prosecuted and sent to jail was the reason they let the three sheep herders go. Couple of hours later three SEALS were dead for it. He mentions it throughout the Book. He states he go's to bed every night agonizing over the decision. He blames himself because he was the tie breaking vote. But he makes it very clear why they let the herders go.
They knew the Taliban would find the Bodies and Parade them in front of Cameras. They even discussed killing them with a knife so forensics couldn't pin it on them. But they didn't want to live with this secrete the rest of their lives.
One thing he said. According to the rules it was OK to kill these herders who stumbled upon their position. Not that it would of protected them from charges.
What do's that rule state? My guess, holding them as prisoners or releasing them would put your Team at risk, more then likely resulting in death. Can you legally kill these people in this situation. Anyone?

I just read on Reuters that the rights to making the film "Lone Survivor" were purchased by Universal for $2,000,000.

Peter Berg, who directed "Kingdom" which is due out this weekend is going to direct this film also. Heck, I remember Peter Berg on "ER" He's come a long way.

Sorry for the hijack.

[AxeMan]

Nope.
You would be required to apply whatever force needed (minimum necessary) up to deadly force to subdue them as they approached your position because you were being threatened (felt threatened) OR you would have to take them prisoner until you could arrange for exfil.
This is my understanding of the rules as per the Law of Land Warfare.

...........MDW

"What do's that rule state? My guess, holding them as prisoners or releasing them would put your Team at risk, more then likely resulting in death. Can you legally kill these people in this situation. Anyone?"

[The Reaper]

Nope.
You would be required to apply whatever force needed (minimum necessary) up to deadly force to subdue them as they approached your position because you were being threatened (felt threatened) OR you would have to take them prisoner until you could arrange for exfil.
This is my understanding of the rules as per the Law of Land Warfare.

...........MDW



Despite common opinion to the contrary, there is no requirement for "minimum force" for military personnel.

That is a load of crap carried over into the military by civilian lawyers and commanders who have seen one too many episodes of COPS.

If someone represents a threat to you, your people, or innocent civilians, you may immediately apply lethal force. Period. No force continuum BS, no requirement to use harsh language, physical restraint, OC, TASERS, impact weapons, wounding shots, etc. Yes, you may be charged by an overzealous/bad commander. Lawyers recommend, but last time I checked, cannot charge anyone with anything without the support of the CoC. There is no DA in military law, that prerogative is the CO's. Fine, I'll take my chances with a board of my peers at a Court Martial rather than in a box with a folded flag for my family.

If they are unarmed civilians, you may detain them for as long as tactically necessary, but not kill them, under the Conventions.

IMHO, they should have been grabbed, gagged, bagged, cuffed, and left in a not too obvious location, and the mission aborted with immediate exfil requested. A discussion of this scenario should be part of every mission planning process that takes place, and Go/No Go criteria determined in advance of infil.

This lesson has been learned repeatedly, starting with Balwanz and his team in DS. Why continue to repeat it?

TR

[AxeMan]

TR,
Just got the brief yesterday and the JAG told me that they are sticking to the "minimum force necessary" to subdue the threat as a basic principle of the Law of Land Warfare. They may be blowing smoke because I don't really see use of minimum force in there. I'll have to get studying on the Geneva Conventions documents to see if that verbage is in there or not. Me personally, I'm going to do what needs to be done on the ground at the time and worry about the JAG later. But they now investigate every time a bad guy gets killed. That didn't happen just a couple of years ago. Bottom line is, it is tougher than ever for the dude behind the gun.

............MDW

Despite common opinion to the contrary, there is no requirement for "minimum force" for military personnel.

That is a load of crap carried over into the military by civilian lawyers and commanders who have seen one too many episodes of COPS.

If someone represents a threat to you, your people, or innocent civilians, you may immediately apply lethal force. Period. No force continuum BS, no requirement to use harsh language, physical restraint, OC, TASERS, impact weapons, wounding shots, etc. Yes, you may be charged by an overzealous/bad commander. Lawyers recommend, but last time I checked, cannot charge anyone with anything without the support of the CoC. There is no DA in military law, that prerogative is the CO's. Fine, I'll take my chances with a board of my peers at a Court Martial rather than in a box with a folded flag for my family.

If they are unarmed civilians, you may detain them for as long as tactically necessary, but not kill them, under the Conventions.

IMHO, they should have been grabbed, gagged, bagged, cuffed, and left in a not too obvious location, and the mission aborted with immediate exfil requested. A discussion of this scenario should be part of every mission planning process that takes place, and Go/No Go criteria determined in advance of infil.

This lesson has been learned repeatedly, starting with Balwanz and his team in DS. Why continue to repeat it?

TR

[Ret10Echo]

TR,
Just got the brief yesterday and the JAG told me that they are sticking to the "minimum force necessary" to subdue the threat as a basic principle of the Law of Land Warfare. They may be blowing smoke because I don't really see use of minimum force in there. I'll have to get studying on the Geneva Conventions documents to see if that verbage is in there or not. Me personally, I'm going to do what needs to be done on the ground at the time and worry about the JAG later. But they now investigate every time a bad guy gets killed. That didn't happen just a couple of years ago. Bottom line is, it is tougher than ever for the dude behind the gun.

............MDW

Apparently it isn't a JAG you have to worry about....It's a GO with an agenda.

[The Reaper]

TR,
Just got the brief yesterday and the JAG told me that they are sticking to the "minimum force necessary" to subdue the threat as a basic principle of the Law of Land Warfare. They may be blowing smoke because I don't really see use of minimum force in there. I'll have to get studying on the Geneva Conventions documents to see if that verbage is in there or not. Me personally, I'm going to do what needs to be done on the ground at the time and worry about the JAG later. But they now investigate every time a bad guy gets killed. That didn't happen just a couple of years ago. Bottom line is, it is tougher than ever for the dude behind the gun.

............MDW

I respectfully recommend that you read the book mentioned in this thread (Combat Self-Defense: Saving America's Warriors From Risk-Averse Commanders And Their Lawyers), and give a copy to your CO and JAG.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182289

TR

[Team Sergeant]

During the 1995-97 timeframe I was assigned to 1st Gp at FT Lewis.

We had a power outage and we were required to assign “armed” guards to every arms room until the power came back on. Many of those assigned were support troops and they stood guard with M-4’s 24/7.
The HHC commander wanted guidance on use of deadly force SOP. Our JAG wrote out a list of guidelines, one which was “Shoot to wound” first. The JAG and I then went head to head. I informed the JAG there was no Army or DoD school that taught a soldier how to "shoot to wound" and where in fact should we shoot people for a wounding shot?

In the end the JAG lost the argument as he was informed he and the Group commander were in fact incapable of re-writing the Ft Lewis, or DoD CONUS ROE.

The point of my story, don’t always believe your JAG. And stick to your guns when you know you’re right. If it takes a JAG to interpret the current ROE for an OCONUS tour of duty, we’re no longer fighting a war…………. And we need to send America’s policemen to the front lines.

CONUS ROE is stated clearly below.

Sometimes I just want to puke.

Team Sergeant
I also made it clear to that spineless JAG he was not allowed to stand in my shadow.




E2.1.6.1. Warning shots are prohibited.

E2.1.6.2. When a firearm is discharged, it will be fired with the intent of rendering the person(s) at whom it is discharged incapable of continuing the activity or course of behavior prompting the individual to shoot.

E2.1.6.3. Shots shall be fired only with due regard for the safety of innocent bystanders.

E2.1.6.4. In the case of holstered weapons, a weapon should not be removed from the holster unless there is reasonable expectation that use of the weapon may be necessary.

E2.1.6.5. The Heads of the DoD Components may establish additional considerations in implementing procedures over the use of firearms.

[AxeMan]

TR,
Thanks. I will hit up Amazon and take it with me. I bet I will be suprised when I read it.
...........MDW

I respectfully recommend that you read the book mentioned in this thread (Combat Self-Defense: Saving America's Warriors From Risk-Averse Commanders And Their Lawyers), and give a copy to your CO and JAG.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182289

TR

[Dan]

RELEASE NUMBER: 070928-03
DATE POSTED: SEPTEMBER 28, 2007
PRESS RELEASE: Charges dismissed against Special Forces Soldiers

U.S. Army Special Forces Command Public Affairs Office

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (USASOC News Service, Sept. 28, 2007) - U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) investigated the circumstances surrounding the death of an enemy combatant in Afghanistan that occurred in Oct. 2006 involving a junior commissioned officer and a senior noncommissioned officer.

Under Article 32, Uniform Code of Military Justice, an impartial officer was assigned to investigate the nature and form of the charges, and make a recommendation whether the case should proceed to trial by court-martial. Article 32 investigations are similar in nature to civilian grand jury proceedings.

After thoroughly reviewing the recommendations of the Article 32 Investigation Officer and the evidence presented during the Article 32 hearing, the commander of U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne), Maj. Gen. Thomas R. Csrnko, determined that courts-martial were not warranted and has dismissed all charges in each case.

The U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) takes all credible allegations of misconduct seriously and ensures each allegation is thoroughly investigated and that appropriate action is taken.

--usasoc--

[Radar Rider]

Excellent news. I hope that those two QPs can get back to defending America's Freedom.

[Team Sergeant]

Now that made my day.

Thanks Dan.

TS

[GreenSalsa]

Cracking a beer to that news...

My only concern is the "chilling effect" it will have on the rest of the company, battalion, group, and SF in general...our enemies are watching this and realize that one of the most potent weapons in their inventory is our own leadership (or lack thereof).

[NousDefionsDoc]

Great news.

NJP to follow...

XXOOs,
Frankie K.

[tom kelly]

Maj.Gen. Thomas R. Csrnko has dismissed all charges under Article 32 which charged Capt. Dave Staffel and Master Sgt. Troy Anderson with the "unauthorized and illegal killing of one Mr. Buntangyar an Afgan enemy combatant.This is certainly very good news and I hope it sends a clear message to Lt.Gen. Frank Kearney that the Special Forces Command does and will stand behind all Special Forces when they are doing their job...Regards,tom kelly

[504PIR]

"Lawfare" or abuse of the legal system for politcal purposes/defeat/hinder our forces is here to stay.

There are many examples in our "sue-happy" society. Civil rights for detainees at Gitmo, the Blind Sheik (whats his name), many of the attacks by the leftwing to interfere with the war. Hell, I suppose it could go back to the establishment of law in the Greek city-states, unscruplous people abusing the law for their own purposes.

Maybe Billy Shakespere had it right about killing all the lawywers??? Just kidding RL:D

[jwt5]

If it takes a JAG to interpret the current ROE for an OCONUS tour of duty, we’re no longer fighting a war…………. And we need to send America’s policemen to the front lines.


Everytime I went OCONUS we had a 'class' where a JAG officer came in and spoke about ROE. I thought it was rather odd. Of course, after the briefing our First Sergeant would stand up and inform us that he would back us 100% as long as we think we are right. This was then echoed by different commanders... but we only believed Top.

With all the publicity surrounding "cases" like this, it truely does have an effect on us on the ground in the "Big Army." From soldiers asking if they can return fire to insurgents attacking and then dropping their weapons... when did it become okay to second guess troops in the field?

[The Reaper]

There is a known case where two MPs sitting in an uparmor with full battle rattle were robbed of their watches, wallets, and personal items by a couple of indig with AKs.

They stated that they were not sure if it was okay to shoot the bad guys.

Amazingly, the chain of command praised them publicly for their restraint.:rolleyes:

Are we fighting a war here, or playing tiddlywinks with death row inmates?

TR

[Guy]

There is a known case where two MPs sitting in an uparmor with full battle rattle were robbed of their watches, wallets, and personal items by a couple of indig with AKs.

They stated that they were not sure if it was okay to shoot the bad guys.

Amazingly, the chain of command praised them publicly for their restraint.:rolleyes:

Are we fighting a war here, or playing tiddlywinks with death row inmates?

TRThis is going too be one; long-ass war!

Stay safe.

[Warrior-Mentor]

Great news for our guys.
Glad that USASFC(A) used the voice of reason.

[TooTall]

Good news indeed. I have to wonder sometimes how much money soldiers sell for in politics. What do they value our lives at? Are we measured by popular, or electoral vote? Casting my thoughts back on Thucydides, I have to conclude that this is something common to democratic politics. The Athenians sent three generals with the expedition to Sicily. Before the expedition had arrived, the most capable of them was recalled to Athens to stand trial for defacing (using a crayon to scrawl a phallus on) the idols commonly kept at the door of Athenian houses. The Athenian expedition was then left to loose momentum under the command of a general who lacked the courage to do anything without a good omen, but had the complete support of the people because they were at ease with their consciences. I don't know what people think they are gaining when they prosecute soldiers, but I think I'd be over-generous to say that it was a clean conscience.

[Ret10Echo]

This is going too be one; long-ass war!

Stay safe.

Anyone remember the "armed" troops in Brcko that were attacked and beaten with sticks? same concept....they received awards for maintaining their Pinata status. As I recall some received some fairly serious cranial injuries.

[NousDefionsDoc]

“The Article 32 investigation accomplished my intent,” Kearney said. “An experienced Special Forces officer provided an independent and thorough review of the facts in this case. The Article 32 investigation resolved the conflicting findings of the two previous investigations and the results demonstrate the effectiveness of the Military Justice System.”

ROTFLMAO!

[Basenshukai]

ROTFLMAO!

I feel the same way. Especially since - as military professionals - we know exactly what that statement means.

While in Afghanistan, our JSOTF had a really good JAG. He was great to have on our side. He would tell us that a JAG should do everything - legal - in his power to ensure that the commander and his men stay out of trouble so that they could be free to go after the bad guys.

Also, he was very serious about only pressing any charges on anyone, if there was real solid evidence behind it and all the proper procedures were followed. I hated loosing him to a PCS some months ago. All JAGs should be like him.

PS - As an elisted man, our JAG had been selected during SFAS. But, his life had changed and he commissioned after he attended law school. Maybe all our JAGs should go to SFAS :)

[Ret10Echo]

Maybe all our JAGs should go to SFAS :)

Sort of a reality/life appreciation course...Pre-law

[82ndtrooper]

Ok, let me get this straight. Gen. Kearney throws two of his hard core professional soldiers under the preverbial "legal bus" under a section 32 investigation for "Pre-meditated murder" charges and then in the end when they are cleared of all aledged wrong doing he states basically that it was an experiment, his own, to determine if the military justice system actually works ??

Does anybody want to serve under this Generals command ?

[Ret10Echo]

Ok, let me get this straight. Gen. Kearney throws two of his hard core professional soldiers under the preverbial "legal bus" under a section 32 investigation for "Pre-meditated murder" charges and then in the end when they are cleared of all aledged wrong doing he states basically that it was an experiment, his own, to determine if the military justice system actually works ??

Does anybody want to serve under this Generals command ?

More like "under his staff-car"

[Warrior-Mentor]

Good news indeed. I have to wonder sometimes how much money soldiers sell for in politics. What do they value our lives at? Are we measured by popular, or electoral vote? I don't know what people think they are gaining when they prosecute soldiers, but I think I'd be over-generous to say that it was a clean conscience.

I wonder how much this test of the military justice system cost our guys out of their own pockets???

Can you imagine the stress not only on them, but their families???

[The Reaper]

I wonder how much this test of the military justice system cost our guys out of their own pockets???

Can you imagine the stress not only on them, but their families???

And Mark Waple is good, but he does not come cheap. At the same time, given the relative inexperience of many of the JAG Trial Defense lawyers, what is your freedom worth?

TR

[afchic]

Saw this in the Early Bird this morning and thought you all might like to see it.

Washington Times
October 10, 2007
Pg. 1

General Rebukes Special Operations Forces

Lawmaker requests probe of Kearney's actions

By Sharon Behn, Washington Times

A crusading three-star general has sparked outrage within the Army Special Forces and Marine Special Operations Command by publicly condemning and twice bringing legal actions against members of their forces.

None of Lt. Gen. Frank Kearney's actions has resulted in a conviction, but they have roiled the military community, led to the resignations of several top-trained Marines, and sparked accusations of improper command influence.

Rep. Walter B. Jones, North Carolina Republican, worried about the effect on the military, has asked Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates to investigate Gen. Kearney, who currently heads the Special Operations Command. The case also has attracted widespread comment in military publications and blogs.

The general's actions "have damaged the lives of many of our special operators and deserve to be investigated," Mr. Jones said in an Oct. 3 letter to Mr. Gates.

Col. Hans Bush, special forces public affairs officer for the Special Operations Command, said yesterday that Gen. Kearney stood "ready to support any investigation directed by the secretary of defense in this matter."

But, he said, "it would be inappropriate to provide further comment prior to the completion of ongoing investigations."

Gen. Kearney directed in June that charges of premeditated murder be brought against Army Special Forces Master Sgt. Troy Anderson and Capt. Dave Staffel, even though the two soldiers already had been exonerated by the Army's Criminal Investigation Command.

The charges, stemming from the shooting death of an Afghan man, were later dropped when authorities decided the victim was a legitimate target.

In March, Gen. Kearney finalized a decision to redeploy all 120 members of the Marine Special Operations Command Fox Company out of Afghanistan, halfway through an internal preliminary investigation into the Marines' response to an ambush on March 4.

The Marines were accused of shooting indiscriminately at bystanders along a road in the town of Banikot.

"I think too many times when we ask our men and women to go to war for this country, that in certain situations there is a rush to judgment that should not be judged," Mr. Jones told The Washington Times yesterday.

"I think the integrity of the Army and Marine Corps should not be questioned unless you are absolutely sure it must be questioned," he said.

Fox Company members were held incommunicado and questioned in Kuwait for weeks before they were allowed to return to the United States.

Seven of the 120 remain under investigation, suspected of violating the rules of engagement.

Gen. Kearney and Col. John Nicholson, commander of the 10th Mountain Division's Third Brigade Combat Team, commented on the case to the press in April and May in what lawyer Mark Waple, who is representing one of the Marines, says was unlawful command influence in a case.

"We found no brass that we can confirm that small arms fire came at [the Marines]," Gen. Kearney was quoted as having said on April 8.

Col. Nicholson was quoted as saying on May 8: "The death and wounding of innocent Afghans at the hand of Americans is a stain on our honor."

Those public comments, Mr. Waple said in an interview, "convicted these Marines months before the completion of any criminal investigation."

"My client, and other Marines on the ... patrol, were presumed to be guilty rather than innocent and they have suffered the stigma," said Mr. Waple, of Waple and Associates based in Fayetteville, N.C.

His client, the Marine company commander, has been relieved of his command.

The preliminary investigations resulted in Gen. Kearney's decision to direct a Navy criminal investigation which was completed six to eight weeks ago.

In an unusual move, the command now has decided there will be courts of inquiry — a very formal investigatory body provided for by the Uniform Code of Military Justice — convened at Camp Lejeune to further investigate the matter.

"This is extraordinarily rare," said Mr. Waple.

The father of one of the Marines of Fox Company who was forced to leave Afghanistan has said he hopes the general will be taken to task.

Jerry Olson, in a letter to the department of defense inspector general, also has called for an investigation of Gen. Kearney for "possible criminal conspiracy."

"I believe evidence will show a coordinated malicious attack was perpetrated against Fox Company. Further, I am accusing Lt. Gen. Kearney and all senior officers that conspired against Fox company of illegal command influence," Mr. Olson said in a letter dated Oct. 5.

Mr. Olson said that a number of highly qualified Marines, including the lead gunner, were leaving the Marine Corps in humiliation over the accusations.

"These guys [are] at the top of their career," said Mr. Olson, a former Air Force sergeant in Vietnam.

"I think that has permanently injured [the Marine Special Operations Command] and their ability to attract and keep the top Marines in the Marine Corps. That is what this is all about: Their lives and careers have been ruined."

Gen. Kearney is a 1976 West Point graduate and former Ranger who has spent time in the Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan. He became commanding general of Special Operations Command-Central in March 2005. In March 2007, he took over the Special Operations Command.

[Team Sergeant]

I've been told that Mark Waple will be talking to Bret Hume tonight on Fox News. Mark Waple is the lawyer for Capt. Dave Staffel & MSG Troy Anderson.

From what I understand Mr. Waple is going to "unleash" on LTG Kearney.

Team Sergeant

[Warrior-Mentor]

What time tonight?

Hopefully it makes YouTube for those who miss it.... :munchin

[CoLawman]

What time tonight?

Hopefully it makes YouTube for those who miss it.... :munchin

http://www.foxnews.com/specialreport/index.html#

Page down to the Inside Washington for the clip regarding the aforementioned interview. Edit to correct that: It is not the interview just a piece that Hume did on it. Sorry for the mislead. Good to see Fox is stepping up to the plate on this one.

[AF IDMT]

[url]Good to see Fox is stepping up to the plate on this one.

Will wonders never cease? Ok I'll go ahead and admit it: The MSM isn't all bad all the time. Good luck to the Gentlemen.

[mark46th]

Geezus. Is there going to be a new SF MOS, 18Lima for Lawyer? Are A-Teams going to be accompanied by legal representation everytime they go out on a mission? I wonder how lawyers respond to an RPG whizzing by their ear? As I have said before, time to get SF out of SOCOM.

[2018commo]

What goes around comes around, but an IG investigation seems a little weak.

Informed Source Bulletin, www.informedsource.info

After months of congressional pressure, the Department of Defense Office of Inspector General has opened an investigation of an Army general who tried to bring murder charges against U.S. troops.

The investigation, requested by Rep. Walter B. Jones, North Carolina Republican, will probe whether Lt. Gen. Francis H. Kearney III overstepped his bounds and/or compromised legal proceedings in two Afghanistan incidents, one involving Marines and the other involving two Special Forces soldiers.

The general's orders, to redeploy a Marine unit and probe the soldiers, were first reported in The Washington Times in October.

"I am troubled by the premeditated-murder charges levied against Master Sergeant Troy Anderson and Captain Dave Staffel" of Special Forces, said Mr. Jones, in an October letter to Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates. "Based on his own statements, Lieutenant General Frank Kearney directed that charges be brought against these two American heroes despite the fact that the two soldiers were exonerated by the Army's Criminal Investigation Command."

Mr. Jones was notified this month that the IG Office had opened an investigation and was reviewing documents and conducting interviews.

The IG "has been provided with a copy of Representative Jones' letter to the secretary of defense regarding Lieutenant General Kearney and is looking into the matter," said Gary Comerford, spokesman for the office. "Since this matter is under review, it would be inappropriate to make any further statements."

The three-star general angered many Army Special Forces and Marine Special Operations Command members when he tried twice to bring legal actions against U.S. forces.

In June, Gen. Kearney directed that charges of premeditated murder be brought against Sgt. Anderson and Capt. Staffel, even though the two Special Forces soldiers had been exonerated in the shooting death of an Afghan man, whom military authorities determined was a legitimate target.

The investigation the general sought ended without charges shortly after The Times report. However, Gen. Kearney's involvement in the case led to a public outcry against the commander by angry members of Congress and military personnel.

According to professor Jeffrey F. Addicott, a former senior legal adviser to the Green Berets and director of the Center for Terrorism Law at St. Mary's University School of Law in San Antonio, Gen. Kearney did not act as a neutral commander under military law but exerted "command influence" against his own subordinates.

"This is a very serious, serious charge in the military," Mr. Addicott told The Times yesterday. "If this inspector general investigation finds that command influence occurred, then General Kearney could be fired from his job by his superior or forced to resign or retire. In my opinion, there is clear evidence that he exerted command influence."

In March, Gen. Kearney was criticized again when he made a decision to redeploy all 120 members of the Marine Special Operations Command Fox Company out of Afghanistan. The company was only halfway through an internal preliminary investigation into the Marines' response to an ambush on March 4 that left 19 civilians dead. They were accused of shooting indiscriminately at bystanders along a road in the town of Banikot.

In November, Marine Maj. Gen. Dennis J. Hejlik, head of Marine Corps Special Operations Command, said the Marines took the appropriate measures in the ambush against them and should not have been pulled out of the region.

Neither Kearney action has resulted in any convictions, but some Marines in the specially trained Fox Company resigned in protest.

[The Reaper]

An IG investigation must be done if a complaint is filed.

The results of the investigation may not be used as a basis for punitive action. If criminal acts are discovered in the course of the IG investigation, the case may be referred to the commander with a recommendation for further legal or criminal investigation.

I doubt that anything more serious than LTG Kearney missing his next star will come of this, and likely not even that.

TR