View Full Version : Warming of the Planet
BMT (RIP)
02-13-2007, 18:22
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
:munchin
BMT
Just got in from shoveling a foot of global warning off the driveway. I still belieeeeve, I still belieeeve...
Only in Washington DC. :rolleyes:
What's next, a meeting on Global cooling being held in August, and that meeting is cancelled, because the Air Conditioner is broken ??
I think this about sums up global warming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zLzqrF2WI
Warrior-Mentor
02-13-2007, 20:40
I've read Inconvenient Truth and seen the flick and have been following this in the news.
It's happening.
"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
I don't think there are a whole lot of people out there who could argue that it (global warming) is happening. I mean come on people, the last ice age ended a while ago. Are Human Beings speeding things along, well that is another story, but if you figure that mother nature releases like 10 times the green house gases in a single volcanic eruption than humans since the industrial revolution, well, you get the idea, just a layman's approach to a fairly complex idear...
just my 2 cents, have a good un'
Additionally, I believe its incredibly self-absorbed to believe that by placing even stricter environmental standards on our auto emissions (which are already heavily regulated), our factory emissions (the difference in industrial waste reduction even since the 1970s is monumental), and some of our recycling "imperatives" that don't even save any energy--they simply conserve renewable resources that don't truly need recycling (i.e. paper).
Should one decide to remove their US-centric blinders, they'd find a staggering amount of harmful industrial emisssions coming from developing countries, to include China, Russia and former Soviet republics. While I don't have hard numbers (anyone want to volunteer to go to China or Russia and measure their current industrial output, which will require government-sponsored access in many cases?), industrial waste in some of these countries appears to mimic, on an individual mill basis, the neglect for the environment in the US from the 1920s to the early 1980s, but on a far larger scale. This is not only air pollution, but also water and land pollution. I mention Russia and China primarily due to their industrial advancement, and the sheer size of their industrial footprint.
Sure, as Americans we can employ ever-increasingly restrictive energy policies, but I fully believe that our efforts would be the drop in the proverbial million-gallon holding tank comparitively. How about we let all these other countries that have a long way to go to equal our pollution control catch up, and then see the results before we blindly prescribe yet another pill for the patient without knowing the effects of the other 50 he's already taking?
Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-14-2007, 06:15
SOoooo, when the two feet of snow that will accumulate around the property here by tomorrow morning finally ceases, I can pull the Adirondack chairs out from under the drifts, kick back in my shorts, and watch it all melt. Now that is a good thing because I would hate to contribute to all those green house gases by cranking up my snowblower. Perhaps I can ask ALgore to join me in his thong (now there is a picture I would like to see you all shake for the rest of the day):D
incommin
02-14-2007, 06:15
I've read Inconvenient Truth and seen the flick and have been following this in the news.
It's happening.
"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
That the planet is warming is not in dispute........ the dispute is over the cause and how much man is actually contributing to the warming.......
And the truth there is what???????
Jim
Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-14-2007, 06:33
That the planet is warming is not in dispute........ the dispute is over the cause and how much man is actually contributing to the warming.......
And the truth there is what???????
Jim
I think the facts support that the earth is going through some climate shift as it has always done. What that means right now is anyone's guess and the data collection on events that take centuries to play out are not going to be valid over the period of anyone of these test tube measurers' life time. So if it gets too warm for maple syrup then grow kiwis and let's stop fretting about it.
And the truth there is what???????
Jim
The "we are the cause of global warming" crowd never does have a good explaination of the Medieval Warm period, must of been those pesky Vikings in their SUV long boats. That "short period" (1,500 years) warming cooling cycle study is also bad news and hard for the anti's to explain.:)
Their view is "If you can't beat them with facts shout them down."
Pete
37 deg and cloudy here right now
82ndtrooper
02-14-2007, 06:36
SOoooo, when the two feet of snow that will accumulate around the property here by tomorrow morning finally ceases, I can pull the Adirondack chairs out from under the drifts, kick back in my shorts, and watch it all melt. Now that is a good thing because I would hate to contribute to all those green house gases by cranking up my snowblower. Perhaps I can ask ALgore to join me in his thong (now there is a picture I would like to see you all shake for the rest of the day):D
Col. Sir, please, that image is already taking on way too many forms :eek:
incommin
02-14-2007, 06:43
I think the facts support that the earth is going through some climate shift as it has always done. What that means right now is anyone's guess and the data collection on events that take centuries to play out are not going to be valid over the period of anyone of these test tube measurers' life time. So if it gets too warm for maple syrup then grow kiwis and let's stop fretting about it.
I couldn't agree more, COL........
Jim
I like the study about wine and beer. Grapes were grown all over Europe but as the world cooled after the Medievel Warm period the Vinyards died off in England and The Germanic areas. They switched to grain and beer. The rest is history.
So tonight let's all raise a toast to Global Cooling and Beer.
Pete
BMT (RIP)
02-14-2007, 07:48
Cows, more than cars, are the primary offender behind global warming. According to the UN Food and Agricultural Organization report, cattle emit 18% of greenhouse gases,more than all transportation combined. Add in all common livestock , and more than a third of all raw materials and fossil fuels consumed in the US are used in animal production.
BMT
Cows, more than cars, are the primary offender ......
BMT
I knew it! Fight global warming guys, eat as much steak as you can to save the planet.:D
I'll do this tonight, along with the beer.
Pete
BMT (RIP)
02-14-2007, 08:10
How many SHEEP are raised and shipped to the peaceful Arab countries in the ME?
BMT
I remember an argument I had a while back about Global Warming with a Environmental Studies student who was absolutely convinced that humans were an evil tyranny on planet Earth.
ESS: In 50 years, if we don't put a stop to all this gross polluting, the Earth is going to be 3 degrees warmer.
Me: I have a question... what's the weather going to be like on Friday?
ESS: Uhhh.... I don't know.
Me: How about the temperature. Do you know what the high will be?
ESS: No, I haven't watched the news.
Me: How about tomorrow? Can you tell me, plus or minus 1 degree, what the exact average temperature will be tomorrow.
ESS: No, not even weathermen can do that.
Me: THEN HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT THE TEMPERATURE WILL BE 50 YEARS FROM NOW?
ESS: .......
Cows, more than cars, are the primary offender behind global warming. According to the UN Food and Agricultural Organization report, cattle emit 18% of greenhouse gases,more than all transportation combined. Add in all common livestock , and more than a third of all raw materials and fossil fuels consumed in the US are used in animal production.
18%... of all "man-made" greenhouse gas production.
Human influence still only accounts for less than 1% of all annual greenhouse gas production.
The real villain is Mother Early, and her pesky oceans and volcanos.
The Reaper
02-14-2007, 09:52
Who are these people who believe that we are causing global warming?
The people who believe that the global warming cycle is primarily man-made are largely the same self-loathers and America haters that cry about everything else we do wrong and never see any of the good we do.
They are the people who believe every story about American "atrocities" in Iraq, but never any of the good things we are doing for the Iraqi people.
They believe that illegal immigrants are justified in coming here and that they are all better people than we are.
They are opposed to drilling for more oil in the US, to building more refineries, and to constructing more nuclear power plants, but want the lights on at their house, the tank of their SUVs filled for under $1 per gallon, and their private jets ready to fly them anywhere in the world they want to go to speak out against industrialized nations and evil corporations.
They believe that guns are inherently evil and cause people to commit crimes that they otherwise would not have. They believe that if all guns were removed from outr society, violent crime would instantly stop.
They believe that it is okay to kill a fetus 30 minutes before it would be delivered just because the "Mother" doesn't want it anymore, but that it is wrong to execute a convicted serial murderer and rapist after 30 years of appeals are denied because the means would be "cruel and unusual".
They believe that Fox News is biased and that talk radio is wrong, despite the fact that the left and the Dims have steadily taken over the MSM and now write the news, rather than reporting it and saving the opinions for the op-ed page. They believe that the large and increasing numbers of Americans watching Fox and listening to Rush are dangerous nut-jobs who are part of the "vast right wing conspiracy."
They believe that it is wrong to espouse Christian beliefs, and that to do so makes you some sort of kooky, evangelical, right-wing, reactionary extremist, but that Islamofascists must be given every opportunity to worship their God and that the government must provide them with all of the trappings of their religion.
They believe that it is okay for a capitalism-based economy to increasingly take wealth from the haves who have earned it and redistribute it to the have nots, who in many cases, will not work even when a job is offered.
They believe that the pollution that the US creates is bad and must be stopped, but that the greater, and growing Chinese, Russian, and Indian pollution, which is much less controlled, if at all, is not a big issue right now.
They believe that the US is a war-mongering nation and that the military is evil, unless they want an intervention somewhere, then the military is tolerable till the first BG has to be shot, after which the military is composerd of thugs, goon, and neo-Nazis.
That is who not only believes that we are causing global warming, but promulgates that OPINION through the MSM at every opportunity.
As the master of the media, Josef Goebbels said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
TR
The people that believe man is the cause of "global warming" are smarter than us.....Of course if you talk to any old farmer from the midwest they will tell you that the 30's were hotter and dryer than today. Of course the old farmers don't have degrees so you can't believe a thing they say. My father and grandfather (a couple of those old farmers) had real world experience dealing with the effects of weather, I will always listen to them before the "experts".
DDD
Real or not, global warming can be leverage against China. It's a tool.
Real or not, global warming can be leverage against China. It's a tool.
Crowbars are tools only if they don't slip off the nail and bang you in the face.
The problem with using Grobal Warming as a tool is the other countries will never follow the agreement and the libs in our country would tie us up in knots to make sure we followed it to the letter of the law.
Pete
Cows, more than cars, are the primary offender behind global warming. According to the UN Food and Agricultural Organization report, cattle emit 18% of greenhouse gases,more than all transportation combined. Add in all common livestock , and more than a third of all raw materials and fossil fuels consumed in the US are used in animal production.
BMT
WOW !!!!!
Does that mean we could Nuke, Greeley Colorado ???!!!!!????
I mean....would anyone REALLY miss it ??? :D :munchin
Peregrino
02-14-2007, 11:55
Real or not, global warming can be leverage against China. It's a tool.
China can afford to laugh at your "leverage". They own enough of the US debt that WE have to be careful dealing with them. Besides - if we quit buying their products (the activity that's currently fueling their economy and it's resultant greenhouse gas emissions) where are we going to find equivalent goods? We don't produce them in the US any more. My .02 - Peregrino
x SF med
02-14-2007, 12:04
Interesting that we are fueling the economy of a country that has no ecological constraints, by outsourcing production to them, during which time they've been purchasing large portions of our national debt in order to maintain leverage over us... and our politicians and economists aren't stupid? Yup, the Chinese are still able to use the defeat by assimilation game - but it's only been in effect for what, 5 maybe 6,000 years? And nobody in government noticed anything but the payoff money.
Monsoon65
02-14-2007, 17:13
Perhaps I can ask ALgore to join me in his thong (now there is a picture I would like to see you all shake for the rest of the day):D
Thanks for the visual, Sir. I'll have to go to therapy to get that out of my head!
I remember being a kid in the 70's and the big thing was that the earth was cooling and we were going to freeze in another Ice Age. What happened to make things go from that, to an equal balance, to Global Warming? And all in 30 years?
Wasn't it Clinton that refused to sign Kyoto because the Chinese and the Indians were given a free ride?
Could have fooled me.
I was in highschool at the time. Other than the freaks wearing black arm bands protesting the bombings in the late 60s the early 70s had the kids worried about the next ice age. Since this was during the winter in the UP of Michigan we students were wondering just how cold it could get up there in the next 20 years or so.
Of course I joined the Army a couple of years later and with living the good life forgot all about it. Every now and again some wacko jumped up and said we would all starve by 1990, fish the seas empty by 2000, be back to horses in the next few years, blah, blah , blah.
The next thing you know GLOBAL WARMING.
The 24 hour news cycle and public education has got people living as if they will die by sunrise.
Pete
Monsoon65
02-14-2007, 19:33
I was in highschool at the time. Other than the freaks wearing black arm bands protesting the bombings in the late 60s the early 70s had the kids worried about the next ice age. Since this was during the winter in the UP of Michigan we students were wondering just how cold it could get up there in the next 20 years or so.....
I was born at KI Sawyer in May 1965. They got a snowstorm something like two weeks after I was born. I wonder how Gore could explain that.
Firebeef
02-14-2007, 20:05
Sdiver.....I saw that. Don't you dare!!
You know you would miss Greality
what other town in Colorado could u dis if we weren't here?????
Pete-
Now the Yoopers are trying to buy air conditioners (safe to say they never saw that coming in the 70s)!
x SF med
02-14-2007, 21:09
The 24 hour news cycle and public education has got people living as if they will die by sunrise.
Oh, Hell - you mean the sky isn't falling?:confused:
Alchemist
02-14-2007, 21:32
A colleague of mine has, I regret to say, a pretty good line on greenhouse skepticism: "For those of you who don't think carbon dioxide buildup contributes to global warming? Don't worry...we're doing the experiment."
Several commenters here have made the valid point that there are other greenhouse gases, some of them natural, and that a cause-and-effect connection between these and the warming that is generally acknowledged is not as airtight as the alarmists maintain. Speaking of the alarmists, I wish I could remember who answered, "What else could it possibly be?" with the perfect response: "It could be anything else in the world that you don't understand."
On a personal note, I would derive no small amusement from seeing the smug certitude of the more bullying alarmists punctured.
But I just have to point this out: CO2 was 280 parts per million around the time the Industrial Revolution started. It's 380 ppm and climbing. You can't account for that rise or anything close to it with natural causes alone. And unlike cow farts, this particular greenhouse gas is poised to really take off. If China and India come up to our standard of living while burning mostly coal to generate energy, it's going to go to 800, conservatively.
That's still a small fraction but it's a big change. I'm no climatologist, just an interested reader, but the conservative in me allies with the chemist to look at that prospect and say, "That can't be a good idea."
So what do we do? Hamstring our economy to cut our emissions, while the Europeans keep quietly failing to cut theirs much, and China and India don't try at all? I know people who would say yes, if only for the sake of the gesture. Count me opposed.
Still, I wonder whether President Bush, if he were feeling really ambitious, could round up enough support among enviros on the left (note that the cofounder of Greenpeace now supports a big increase in nuclear energy generation) and national security voters on the right, for a Manhattan-Project-level effort to move beyond fossil fuels, sooner rather than later. (He's made noises about this, but our steps are pretty minor at this point.) It won't solve our problems in the Middle East anytime soon, and I'm sure it would carry its own unintended consequences, but I could just about be persuaded.
Peregrino
02-14-2007, 21:56
Still, I wonder whether President Bush, if he were feeling really ambitious, could round up enough support among enviros on the left (note that the cofounder of Greenpeace now supports a big increase in nuclear energy generation) and national security voters on the right, for a Manhattan-Project-level effort to move beyond fossil fuels, sooner rather than later. (He's made noises about this, but our steps are pretty minor at this point.) It won't solve our problems in the Middle East anytime soon, and I'm sure it would carry its own unintended consequences, but I could just about be persuaded.
If POTUS wants a genuine legacy he should push the development of commercially viable electric power plants driven by hydrogen fusion. IMNSHO hydrogen fusion has the potential (socially and economically) to be the equivalent of going from horse & buggy to the internal combustion engine. From theory to bomb took 5-6 years, from political statement to Moon took 7-8 years; how long would commercial fusion power take? A lot of the underlying science has already been done. Energy independance is a goal worthy of Manhattan Project resource commitment. Heck - clean up a few "porkbarrel projects/setasides" and the Federal Government wouldn't even notice the pricetag. Anything less lacks vision or more properly belongs in the private sector. My .02 - Peregrino
The Reaper
02-14-2007, 22:10
Agree completely with the independent energy Manhattan Project, and have suggested this repeatedly before.
TR
Sdiver.....I saw that. Don't you dare!!
You know you would miss Greality
what other town in Colorado could u dis if we weren't here?????
**cough**BOULDER**cough**;)
I was born at KI Sawyer in May 1965.
I was born at St Ignace because the base couldn't do the delivery (name the base for extra points). Dragged of to Maine (another base) for a few years and ended up at KI Sawyer in the fall of 60. Stayed there until Feb 73. Ah, the joys of being a SAC brat in the 50s & 60s.
After a shot stay in Iowa I joined the Army. Going from N/E Iowa the end of Feb to Ft Jackson, SC the first week of Mar I was a believer in Global Warming. Man that place was hot, and here everybody else was running around in field jackets saying they were cold. Cold? They didn't know what cold was.
...On a personal note, I would derive no small amusement from seeing the smug certitude of the more bullying alarmists punctured.
All kidding aside, I think many here agree with the greater points of energy sources and conservation. It's just that over the years, other that shouting down everybody, the enviro-wackos have been against everything.
Nuke power? Got that shut down, tied up with permits and enviro impact statements. Hydro power? Same thing, try and build a large dam and kooks will come out from every rock. Result - more coal based plants.
Wind power? Ask the Martha's Vinyards people about what NIMBY stands for.
Oil? Let's kill of "Big Oil" with taxes. All While China and Cuba start pumping oil from the Florida straights. Another NIMBY for FL and the Carolinas.
I'll be the first in line for an energy/earth friendly car that can do 200 miles a day at highway speeds, that lasts about 150,000 miles and is equal in cost to the cars I drive now, $12,000-$15,000. Yes guys, my work car is an el-cheepo. It's a tool not a lifestyle. Besides, I'm not a LE target.
And on electric cars, if you plug it in it's a carbon user/burner. Some evil coal burning plant had to burn coal to make the electricity.
Pete
Earth Lover from way back
Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-15-2007, 06:03
As a wayward youth I attended the University of Maine and graduated in the 60s with a BS and then got a MS in the 70s-both in Wildlife Management. As you might imagine both courses were steeped in the eco-sciences of the day and academia relied heavily then, as it does today, on grants to pursue agendas and prove theories using that tried and true military planning process of reverse planning. Reverse planning (unless you are in a leg unit-then it is backasswards planning) means you start at the objective and work back to the inception of the mission working out all the steps you need to do to accomplish the task assigned. Many of the academics of the day did just that, they had a mission and worked backwards to figure out what they had to do to make it come out they way that they wanted-facts be damned. I know you find it difficult to attack the hallowed halls of ivy covered towers of higher tuitions(excuse me-learning) but I only have to mention just a few sacrosanct studies of the time: Rachel Carson's Silent Spring-thanks to her malaria is killing millions. A polution project in the UK that showed moths mutating in the urban environments because of the coal burning plants-the "scientists" involved were actually collecting moths of the color they wanted and gluing them to the sides of buildings to prove their findings (excuse me again-agenda). Now let me be so bold as to mention environmental succession-did you ever wonder why some species of plants and animals exist in one area of the same region of the world and not in others. It is simple, the first critters and plants that arrive actually modify the environment to suit their needs which in turn changes the environment which makes it more suitable for another species to replace them. It is a natural course of events. Now I do not want to be fatalistic here, but everytime man has screwed with the process he has created more problems-ask any deer biologist about the Kaibab deer crash. Now I am not saying that all the kindly old professors in slightly soiled lab coats with their well worn pocket protectors are mad scientists, however manipulating data in the short term is easy but not valid when you are talking long term cycles driven by a mulitude of factors most of which are outside of mans control. Sometimes a hot spell is just a hot spell.
Accidentally edited by Razor. Checking on a fix, if it exists.
New edit by Razor: No dice. PM out.
spectre919
02-15-2007, 18:30
I pretty much agree with the above sentiment. The only valid data is that
a) We are warming up.
Yep, It's gonna be a sweltering 19F here in FLORIDA tonight!!! :p
If POTUS wants a genuine legacy he should push the development of commercially viable electric power plants driven by hydrogen fusion.
Something available RIGHT NOW is biomass electric plants. They take in construction and demolition wood (or other efficiently burnable organic material) that would otherwise clog landfills or be burned in open fires (let's see, any massive supply of C&D available out there right now...oh yeah, how about the Katrina mess) and sort and burn it to produce steam to produce electricity; some small plants with a single turbine are producing upwards of 40MW. The biomass aerial environmental output is lower than that for fossils fuels, and the ash waste is converted into plant fertilizer. Even the waste heat (which every system has, but which biomass has less) can be recycled for plant operation, or piped off to other heat users, of which there are many (can anyone say steam-heated facilities, or agriculture needs?).
It may not be the "Mr. Right" solution, but it seems like a viable "Mr. Right Now".
(For the record, I still don't believe vastly expanding our pollution reduction efforts to reduce our environmental impact will amount to a hill of beans when compared globally.)
Yep, It's gonna be a sweltering 19F here in FLORIDA tonight!!! :p
I know. I've been in the Orlando area for the last 3 weeks :)
But we're looking at the effects globally. Locally I guess things may turn a bit weird.
The biomass aerial environmental output is lower than that for fossils fuels, and the ash waste is converted into plant fertilizer. Even the waste heat (which every system has, but which biomass has less) can be recycled for plant operation, or piped off to other heat users, of which there are many (can anyone say steam-heated facilities, or agriculture needs?).
I recently saw a television program where an old landfill had pipes running in the ground to extract the methane produced from decomposition. I always saw commericals on India's state owned TV network about biogas plants in little rural villages, where dung and other organic waste is pumped into a concrete chamber and methane is extracted from the decomposition. Leftover material can be used as fertiziler, too.
I don't think there is one solution to the energy needs. The southwest, for example, would be an ideal candidate for solar energy use. I grew up with a solar water heater. It did a decent job. Only on rainy and really cold days did we have to flip the switch to turn the back up electric heating filament on.
I'd like to see big tax breaks for places with large square footage roofs (commerical buildings) and homeowners that install 'green roofs' or solar panels. On those really hot and sunny days when everyone's ACs are running, having a solar energy supplement to ensure no rollling black outs occur (or reduce its effect) would be nice.
Monsoon65
02-15-2007, 21:02
(For the record, I still don't believe vastly expanding our pollution reduction efforts to reduce our environmental impact will amount to a hill of beans when compared globally.)
Exactly. I try to be as "green" as I can without getting too weird. I'll recycle, conserve, all that good stuff, but compared to the rest of the world, it's a drop in the bucket that's saved.
Pete: SAC kid? Hmmmm, how about Kincheloe AFB. My dad was Rescue; we got assigened everywhere! He told me about flying over Superior and it was like flying over the ocean due to it's size. The also did water work in a depression between the runways where water collected and always had to wear an exposure suit because the water was that cold. He retired to Upstate NY in the Snow Belt, north of Albany. People in PA here freak with an inch or so of snow, and up there they were getting a foot.
....I'd like to see big tax breaks for places with large square footage roofs (commerical buildings) and homeowners that install 'green roofs' or solar panels......
And thats the problem. The "save the world people" don't want to do it on their own dime. They want to do it on mine.
Libs love to talk the talk but not make the walk. The Jet Set of the left coast just loves the big cars and SUVs, private jets and huge homes but want us to do the "do without" bit. Same thing about guns. Good ol' Rosie says nobody should have guns, except of course her bodyguards.
Special rules for Special People.
Pete
Special rules for Special People.
Ain't that the truth!
Government doesn't have to control it, only give enough incentive for the public to follow it. Strategy laid out by government along with efficient leadership to guide the nation is necessary. Micromanaging stuff won't work. For energy, there is no magic bullet. Solutions for different local communities won't necessarily be the same.
The same goes for global warming/pollution. China and India will eventually fuel most of the world's growth in pollution (if they already aren't). With one third of the world's population between them it makes sense. If the haters want to make a drastic impact, those are the locations where their efforts need to focus. Not the USA (yea, we're the biggest and baddest, but we're also the world's economic engine).
Jack Moroney (RIP)
02-16-2007, 05:48
I always saw commericals on India's state owned TV network about biogas plants in little rural villages, where dung and other organic waste is pumped into a concrete chamber and methane is extracted from the decomposition. Leftover material can be used as fertiziler, too.
They do something similar here in Vermont; it is called Cow Power. Milk Farmers are producing electricity from Cow Crap and sell it to the power companies. The great thing about it is that the local Vermont Citizen can participate as long as he pays more for the electricity he uses to help offset the cost of the project. So let me see, do I want to pay more for electricity and help the cow farmer that is already being subsidized because his farming business practices do not produce enough money to keep him afloat or do I want to pay the going rate on my electric bill based on what I actually use? Oh the dilemma:D Of course anyone who has watched CSPAN knows that using bullshit to produce power is one of Vermont's strong points as Sen Leahy and Sanders are products of our village idiot program and have unlimited potential in helping generate the bullshit that can be burned up here.
Warrior-Mentor
02-17-2007, 11:35
Who are these people who believe that we are causing global warming?
The people who believe that the global warming cycle is primarily man-made are largely the same self-loathers and America haters that cry about everything else we do wrong and never see any of the good we do.
They are the people who believe every story about American "atrocities" in Iraq, but never any of the good things we are doing for the Iraqi people.
They believe that illegal immigrants are justified in coming here and that they are all better people than we are.
They are opposed to drilling for more oil in the US, to building more refineries, and to constructing more nuclear power plants, but want the lights on at their house, the tank of their SUVs filled for under $1 per gallon, and their private jets ready to fly them anywhere in the world they want to go to speak out against industrialized nations and evil corporations.
They believe that guns are inherently evil and cause people to commit crimes that they otherwise would not have. They believe that if all guns were removed from outr society, violent crime would instantly stop.
They believe that it is okay to kill a fetus 30 minutes before it would be delivered just because the "Mother" doesn't want it anymore, but that it is wrong to execute a convicted serial murderer and rapist after 30 years of appeals are denied because the means would be "cruel and unusual".
They believe that Fox News is biased and that talk radio is wrong, despite the fact that the left and the Dims have steadily taken over the MSM and now write the news, rather than reporting it and saving the opinions for the op-ed page. They believe that the large and increasing numbers of Americans watching Fox and listening to Rush are dangerous nut-jobs who are part of the "vast right wing conspiracy."
They believe that it is wrong to espouse Christian beliefs, and that to do so makes you some sort of kooky, evangelical, right-wing, reactionary extremist, but that Islamofascists must be given every opportunity to worship their God and that the government must provide them with all of the trappings of their religion.
They believe that it is okay for a capitalism-based economy to increasingly take wealth from the haves who have earned it and redistribute it to the have nots, who in many cases, will not work even when a job is offered.
They believe that the pollution that the US creates is bad and must be stopped, but that the greater, and growing Chinese, Russian, and Indian pollution, which is much less controlled, if at all, is not a big issue right now.
They believe that the US is a war-mongering nation and that the military is evil, unless they want an intervention somewhere, then the military is tolerable till the first BG has to be shot, after which the military is composerd of thugs, goon, and neo-Nazis.
That is who not only believes that we are causing global warming, but promulgates that OPINION through the MSM at every opportunity.
As the master of the media, Josef Goebbels said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
TR
TR,
Senator McCain qualify for that description?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6364663.stm
The Reaper
02-17-2007, 13:13
Since you asked directly, I think McCain is losing it as he gets older, was never a conservative, and makes all of his statements now with an eye towards whether he thinks it will help him get nominated and elected as POTUS.
I think that his positions on most of my above characterizations support that thesis.
That is my unvarnished opinion of the situation, YMMV.
TR
Warrior-Mentor
02-17-2007, 13:18
If it was after the primaries and he had the nomination, I might agree.
But he's still got to win the right in the primaries before he can swing toward the center (read left) in the general election.
They do something similar here in Vermont; it is called Cow Power. Milk Farmers are producing electricity from Cow Crap and sell it to the power companies. The great thing about it is that the local Vermont Citizen can participate as long as he pays more for the electricity he uses to help offset the cost of the project. So let me see, do I want to pay more for electricity and help the cow farmer that is already being subsidized because his farming business practices do not produce enough money to keep him afloat or do I want to pay the going rate on my electric bill based on what I actually use? Oh the dilemma:D Of course anyone who has watched CSPAN knows that using bullshit to produce power is one of Vermont's strong points as Sen Leahy and Sanders are products of our village idiot program and have unlimited potential in helping generate the bullshit that can be burned up here.
Leave it up to lefties to come up with a bullshit economic scheme.
For third world countries like India where infrastructure is poor, miniature biogas plants in unaccessible villages makes sense, but only to pipe natural gas to those homes for cooking and to clean up the area. If the economics don't support it, none will truly benefit. I'm serious, there is a lot of dung out there. I've managed to have my foot in cow/buffalo shit many times, or ride my bicycle through it. 'Cutting the cake' as we called it wasn't a pleasant experience in monsoon, particularly when you got stuck behind a herd of water buffalos on your way to school that carpet bombed the road like a B52. Specks of green wet crap all over the pants of my uniform. There are so many stray cows in Western India (because people don't eat beef there), they just laze around the streets. Leave your front gate open and you'll see a cow happily chomping through the garden.
Leave it up to lefties to come up with a bullshit economic scheme.
Yep, they did the same thing here in Colorado. A measure to increase the minimum amount of "green" energy put into our grid passed last fall, so just about everybody's bill will go up because the "green" sources cost more.
Yep, they did the same thing here in Colorado. A measure to increase the minimum amount of "green" energy put into our grid passed last fall, so just about everybody's bill will go up because the "green" sources cost more.
Here is another example (http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17853166&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6)of stupid legislation proposals. Ban regular bulbs? The local cost of electricity isn't that high where people will flock to high efficiency bulbs. In places where electricity costs are far higher, you see greater use of such bulbs (and they're cheaper). When oil prices spike, people rush to buy smaller and efficient cars. The market will adapt based upon the situation.
Question: For those of you who live in states with plenty of sunshine, if the government said you could deduct the capital cost of a solar photo cell panel or water heater, what would be the response? I mean, deduct the total capital cost minus labor; rates will vary from place to place. Also, the more installations labor guys make or sales businesses manufacturing and selling equipment get, their taxes go down (still more revenue, but a less percentage as demand grows). This way there is incentive to buy and sell in greater numbers.
Here's the answer to all our problems.
Former Canadian Defense Minster says we need to use technology from UFO's to help stop global warming.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070228/od_afp/canadaenvironmentkyoto;_ylt=AkFNvoTajAmob7k4blMSj4 YDW7oF
OTTAWA (AFP) - A former Canadian defense minister is demanding governments worldwide disclose and use secret alien technologies obtained in alleged UFO crashes to stem climate change, a local paper said Wednesday.
"I would like to see what (alien) technology there might be that could eliminate the burning of fossil fuels within a generation ... that could be a way to save our planet," Paul Hellyer, 83, told the Ottawa Citizen.
Alien spacecrafts would have traveled vast distances to reach Earth, and so must be equipped with advanced propulsion systems or used exceptional fuels, he told the newspaper.
Such alien technologies could offer humanity alternatives to fossil fuels, he said, pointing to the enigmatic 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico -- which has become a shrine for UFO believers -- as an example of alien contact.
"We need to persuade governments to come clean on what they know. Some of us suspect they know quite a lot, and it might be enough to save our planet if applied quickly enough," he said.
Hellyer became defense minister in former prime minister Lester Pearson's cabinet in 1963, and oversaw the controversial integration and unification of Canada's army, air force and navy into the Canadian Forces.
He shocked Canadians in September 2005 by announcing he once saw a UFO.
What I don't understand is, if these Aliens have this great technology and can help with "Global Warming", how come Al Gore isn't using it (re: his increased use of power at his "little" house)....We all know that Mr. Gore is from, Beta Reticulan, or someplace like that.
:munchin
The Reaper
03-12-2007, 20:14
Those who are open-minded and who want to hear the other side of this discussion should take the hour to watch this.
Clearly, many scientists disagree with Mr. Gore and his cronies.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638
TR
Kyobanim
03-12-2007, 20:25
We all know that Mr. Gore is from, Beta Reticulan, or someplace like that.
No he's not. Get your facts straight.
He's from Youranus.
Those who are open-minded and who want to hear the other side of this discussion should take the hour to watch this.
Clearly, many scientists disagree with Mr. Gore and his cronies.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638
TR
Also awesome is the RealClimate.org response (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/) to that video. They don't really have much of a response.
No he's not. Get your facts straight.
He's from Youranus.
D'oh......that's right !!!!
He does look like a BIG turd doesn't he.
I betcha some of his best friends are Klingons......
Get it.....Klingons....Youranus...:D :D
Man, I kill myself. :lifter