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Scimitar
12-24-2006, 13:16
Hello Gentlemen,

Quick question if I may.....

Have an 18x contract.

From what I can tell so far....if you want to be 100% prepared for SFAS (and you're stupid not to be) you should be consistently getting the below. (i.e. the effort should not be to exhaustion - can do the different exercises a few days in a row and still be consistent)

I have been told that BCT & BAT will not help you get to this level and so you should go into BCT at this level.

Have ordered Warrior Mentor book, but was hoping for an answer sooner.

APFT = score 300 in 17-21 age group (Sit-ups / press-ups / short run)
Pull-ups = min 6 (preferable 12)
Swim = min 50m in BDUs (preferable 100m)
Ruck March = 12 miles @ 55lb + LBE + Rifle,
= 13 min miles + breaks
= Correct Shoes, LBE, Technique, and foot care.

QUESTION: Have I covered everything here?


NEXT

Have damaged my knee while playing football....and although no big deal (Dr says) I have to keep of it for 6 weeks. (incl cycling and swimming)

Although I can work on my upper and core strength:lifter , I can't work on the running stuff.....so by the time I can start the cardio up again, I may not have enough time to get up to speed before I ship out.

I have been told I can request an extension to my ship date and would like to take this option if the facts show that I won't be fully prepared in time.

Currently consistently scoring 220 on APFT, (sit-ups a bit low though.)
Hitting 16 min miles on rucking....need to improve!!

QUESTION: I know this is a hard question to answer as it so subjective, but

6 weeks till knee ready…….how many weeks after that would I need to get up to speed in the ‘swim/run/ruck’ area before I ship?

4 wks? 6 wks? 12 wks?

pls note.....I have much free time to put into training as I need.

Your assistance is appreciated

The Reaper
12-24-2006, 13:33
First, I hate to be nitpicking, but if you call them "press-ups", you are going to be doing a lot of them.

Second, did you not get the SWCS SFAS Prep Handbook that lays out the prep program by weeks?

Next, you are not going to succeed with your PT scores and rucking that slow. You may not make it through the first week.

Finally, you need to use the search button before starting any more threads here.

TR

Team Sergeant
12-24-2006, 13:54
HEY ALL OF YOU SF "Candidates"

This is where you can contribute,Scimitar is in need of some direction. I'm sure you guys can send him a few PM's and tune him up!


Team Sergeant

Surgicalcric
12-24-2006, 14:19
220, WTF...

With that, as long as your knee is healed by the time you ship then ship. Waiting is accomplishing nothing more than prolonging the inevitable. You have 13 weeks at OSUT and another 3 of BAC before you even get to SOPC then SFAS. You have alot of time to work on your APFT. That doesnt mean you can slack.

There is plenty of time in the evenings at OSUT to do 'extra' PT (read: YOU NEED TO DO EXTRA PT). While in OSUT remember, getting smoked is just another chance for you to PT. Dont get all pissy about it, noone likes a whiner. You need to work on building functional muscle. Pushups, elevated pushups, hand-stand pushups, etc... should all be part of your routine. If your abs are weak, which by admission they are, you need to pay extra attention to them. Situps, crunches, flutterkicks and so on. Dont just stick to situps so you can pass the APFT. Remember, functional muscle.

Running is based on ability groups at OSUT. You should always run with the A group. If they are too fast for you and you fall back, you will be picked up by B group...and so on (DONT FALL OUT). If you dont feel like you are about to vomit then you need to run harder. The runs arent that far or that fast.

As for rucking, I found that rucking was more difficult at OSUT because I had to walk so damned slow as not to leave the other guys behind, which I still did. Be sure your boots are broken in before you start trying to set a new land speed record or you will pay for it. Since there isnt time, or atleast wasnt for me, to do extra rucking at OSUT work on air-squats, lunges, and calf raises...lots of calf raises.

You will have to do PT on your own at BAC to stay in shape. The PT there is a farce. Run, ruck, and do other conditioning drills at night when the training day is over. There will be plenty of guys going out for beer and pizza as well as chasing skirts. You should be going for a run and a protein shake instead.

Remember, keep your eyes on the goal. Always strive to be the best. Ready yourself mentally for whats ahead as well as physically. When the body starts to fail you, and it eventually will, your mind will push you the remainder of the way providing you took the time to prepare it as well. NEVER, EVER quit.

Oh, and have a Merry Christmas.

Crip

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 14:21
Firstly.....Thanks for the quick replies...(wow)

1.....Sorry we call then press-ups were I come from....thanks for the heads up......Push-ups...right?

2......I have asked my Recruiter for the PT 31-210-SWCS a couple of times....where else can I source this?

3.....Yes I realize that I'm not up to speed yet......trying to understand how long it might take me to get up to speed as I can extend my ship date if need be.

4.....Sorry about the lack of search...assumed that there would be no info on this topic....need to improve my SA.......my bad.

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 14:32
Great feedback Cric

220...WTF....do you mean "that’s good enough to ship with"....or do you mean "WTF you got to get that higher"

1. I only enlisted last week so have just started PT...

2. Functional Mussel....good one

3. I have been told that you will not have time on OSUT or BAT to do extra PT and get beyond 230......I have been advised to hit OSUT with 300 and a lot of rucking under my belt? Thoughts?

4. Build calves for Rucking...good one

I'm sure Warrior Mentor discusses all this...just haven’t got it in the mail yet

The Reaper
12-24-2006, 14:36
Sean:

The link to the PT prep manual is on this website in a sticky you should have already read before posting anything here, much less starting new threads.

It is also available pretty easily via a google search. It took me less than 30 seconds to find it.

If you are the sort who needs to be told exactly what to do and where to find it, you may want to reconsider your enlistment as an 18X. Frankly, from your posts, compounded by your poor fitness, you will not be coming to Bragg at all, but will have six years as an infantryman to serve.

Your knee should not be keeping you from working on your weak upper body and abs. Start knocking out sets of push-ups and sit-ups, interspersed with crunches, flutter kicks, etc.

The sticky that you should read also reveals the following:

"d. The Army Research Institute (ARI) has been able to closely correlate performance on the APFT and a 4-mile rucksack march with success in SFAS. During fiscal year (FY) 89 and FY 90 ARI evaluated the cumulative APFT score (17 to 21 age group standard) with the percent of candidates who started SFAS and who passed the course. The average PT score for SFAS graduates is 250. The average PT results are depicted below:

APFT Score Percent Passing Course

206-225 31

226-250 42

251-275 57

276 or higher 78

The higher the APFT score, the better the percent that passed the course. You need to be in top physical condition and you should do well in SFAS.

e. ARI evaluated the ability of SFAS students to perform a 4-mile ruckmarch in battle dress uniform (BDU), boots, M-16, load bearing equipment, and a 45-pound rucksack. The overall average 4-mile ruckmarch time for graduates is 61 minutes. The average PT results are depicted below:

Ruckmarch Time (Min) Percent Passing Course

54 and less 81

55-64 63

65-74 34

75-84 10

The less time to complete a 4-mile ruckmarch, the better the percent who passed the course. The Soldiers who prepare for SFAS through PT should succeed at SFAS."

As you can see, your numbers put you squarely in the "not likely to be selected" category. They are reflecting poorly on your ability to motivate and self-start, both characteristics we are searching for. If I were you, I would read the stickies and intros, stop posting, get off the computer, and into the front leaning rest, or on your back with your heels raised. More reading and PTing, less posting. IMHO, you do not belong at SFAS if you cannot score 280 or better and make 14 minute miles or less for 12 miles at the time.

Of course, that is just my opinion, for what it is worth.

Good luck and have a very SF day.

TR

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 14:36
Just internet serached for this...didn't think it would be online.

So it says that 5 weeks will surfice to prep you for SFAS....along with continued maintainence work during OSUT + BAT + SFAS Prep?

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 14:41
Thanks Reaper.

The Reaper
12-24-2006, 14:45
Just internet serached for this...didn't think it would be online.

So it says that 5 weeks will surfice to prep you for SFAS....along with continued maintainence work during OSUT + BAT + SFAS Prep?

You have it backwards.

It is SWCS 31-210 PT.

Get with the program. Any PT would be an improvement.

TR

Surgicalcric
12-24-2006, 14:52
Sean:

You need to read alot more and post alot less. TR hit on it. Most any and all questions you may have will probably have been covered here before.

1. Not being in the military is not an excuse for being out of shape.

2. Muscle. :rolleyes:

3. You were told wrong. There is plenty of time. The first couple weeks will be hectic as you will be trying to find a groove, after you are off 'total control' you dont have a reasonable excuse not to. Those that dont have time to do extra PT and the same ones who cant find time to prepare their uniform for the next days training, or make their bed in time for PT formation, etc. It may take some time management skills but it can be done. If you arent doing PT it will be because you dont want to.

4. Yes calves. The soleus and gastrocnemius muscles, to be more specific, are the muscles responsible for propeling your body forward as you walk.

There are countless posts here on PT programs. Find one and get busy is my suggestion.

Crip

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 15:18
Thanks for your feedback, Gentlemen

So from what you are saying, that is the best course of action?

I have 10 weeks till ship date....rest the knee for 6 weeks while working on strength core/lower/upper.
Once Dr allows me to use knee again start the 5 week program for rucking / running and just keep it up during OSUT-BAT.

Remember I can extend my ship date if I want to.....I don’t want to delay, but it may be wise to? But from what you are saying there is no need to?

The Reaper
12-24-2006, 15:24
I give up.

You are on your own.:rolleyes:

See you on the block.

TR

racing_snake
12-24-2006, 15:36
Out of my depth.

Kyobanim
12-24-2006, 15:43
Sean,

Are you listening or just waiting to talk?

Pete
12-24-2006, 16:15
I've been viewing this thread as it builds, popping in and out.

I can only shale my head in Pure T Wonderment.


Pete

Surgicalcric
12-24-2006, 22:02
Since this is Christmas Eve and I am feeling generous... Listen up.

Do you think we would have given our opinion if we didnt feel it was the best course of action for you to follow? Thats a rhetorical question; there's no need to answer. The Reaper and I weren't typing for the practice. We have answered your questions based on our experiences with preparing for SFAS as well as watching others prepare, or not.

My advice is rest the knee for the 6 weeks. Continue, or start upper body and abdominal exercises as well as calf raises. Once you are given the OK by your MD, run and ruck your ass off for the next 4 weeks. If the knee isn't good-to-go by 1 week out from your ship date you can extend at that time. It is entirely too early to worry about it now. Remember, you have 10 weeks. ;)

Now I have a question for you Sean; how badly do you want it? Do you want it bad enough to do what it takes? If you want it badly enough you will do what you have to. There is no half-stepping here.

Crip

Scimitar
12-24-2006, 23:46
Sorry gentlemen,

In no way was I questioning your advice (not that I'd have any right to as a newbie)....I was simply seeking clarification for myself on the course of action you had suggested.

I can't stress enough the assistance that your site has given me and I'm sure 1000's of other newbies in more easily accessing invaluable information that could otherwise be unobtainable.

Like I have said to other SF guys who have advised me....it is not your job to assist us....yet you do....thank you (seriously)

In regards to your question....How badly do I want it?

I want this bad enough that I was asking weather due to a minor knee injury I should extend my ship date to insure I am 100% prepared for SFAS, so as to not waste my time or SFs time. I plan to pass SFAS the first time and if I do fail SFAS, I am determined it will not be due to lack of preparation.

Hope this wasn't a rhetorical question

The Reaper
12-25-2006, 00:04
How many push-ups and sit-ups have you done today, Sean?

How much searching and reading have you done?

That will tell us how badly you want it far better than words.

TR

Scimitar
12-25-2006, 02:00
Hear you load and clear Reaper,

Will cease to post and get the F**k on with it

Out

Z731
12-26-2006, 19:31
Your PT sucks but can be worked on.

Don't know about your heart. No way of telling there.

Your knee is the big issue. FACTS ARE FACTS: SFAS will bring out that old injury. You won't like it. Heal that knee and come back.

Z

NousDefionsDoc
12-26-2006, 19:53
"You've had your whole life to prepare for this moment. Why aren't you ready?"

lksteve
12-26-2006, 20:04
"You've had your whole life to prepare for this moment. Why aren't you ready?"Christmas is definitely over...

Warrior-Mentor
12-26-2006, 21:57
Funny you say that...stats have it that the JAN SFAS has a historically higher attrition rate....

Could it be the cold weather? or too much cookies and not enough PT? :munchin

The Reaper
12-26-2006, 22:03
Funny you say that...stats have it that the JAN SFAS has a historically higher attrition rate....

Could it be the cold weather? or too much cookies and not enough PT? :munchin

Or could it be a free ticket from Uncle Sam to the East Coast of CONUS?

LOTS of guys from Korea and Germany used to request that class, and fail the PT test at their first opportunity before they stopped that.

TR

Warrior-Mentor
12-26-2006, 22:15
Sure you want to pass on that idea here?

Besides, no one would do that... :rolleyes:

MtnGoat
12-28-2006, 04:33
I give up.

You are on your own.:rolleyes:

See you on the block.

TR
LOL

Newbies!! LOL

Read more.

gtcrispy
12-28-2006, 12:05
Funny you say that...stats have it that the JAN SFAS has a historically higher attrition rate....

Could it be the cold weather? or too much cookies and not enough PT? :munchin

I'm thinking it might just be that cold weather... Jan 04' consited of temperatures dropping down into the teens. Jan 03' I was told had major ice storms. All I can say is that I'm glad I had my Gortex lined boots because my feet would've been wet and frozen without them.

hermitcrab
02-19-2007, 14:56
Funny you say that...stats have it that the JAN SFAS has a historically higher attrition rate....

Could it be the cold weather? or too much cookies and not enough PT? :munchin

I just finished the Jan/Feb SFAS class... I am pretty sure it is the freaking cold that worms its way into your head firmly plants itself there and starts to sap your motivation. It starts to make you forget what you are doing there and why. Then it causes you to feel sorry for yourself. The cold was the biggest mind game out there if you ask me.

As for Scimitar... Bro, even if you are in incredibly good shape when you ship to basic you will most likely be brought down a couple notches because you will not be scaling your PT. You will be doing lesser PT... you may be able to maintain with the PT there, but that requires you to smoke yourself during PT and during smoke sessions. Always make it hurt...

SFPC 1 (previously SOPC) - Is an incredible program, if you give 100% there you will be in great shape. The PT there is designed to build you up they give you plenty of rest and food... The combination will allow your body to build up and prepare you for SFAS.

I never believed anyone when they told me that SFAS was 80% mental.... but now that I have been through it... it is all about your state of mind. I saw guys the first week that were absolute studs... I did not see them the second or third week. No matter who you are or how in shape you are, you will physically be destroyed and the battle will move to your mind. If you can not win that battle, you will not make it through. I don't know many guys that didn't think about quitting while they were out there, I certainly did... You can think about it all day, so long as you keep moving while you do it... then you will look up and realize you are closer than you were before. Then your mind might wander off to sandwiches... a blissful distraction. What separates a selectee from a non-select or a VW is that when you look up from your apparatus and think there is no freaking way we can make this... you think that while you are pushing, pulling, clawing and scraping to complete the mission... no matter how impossible it seems, we are just too stubborn to stop. That is my 50 cents worth hope it helps.

bubba
02-19-2007, 15:46
The "Ice Storm Class" was Nov/Dec '02, at least as I remember it. I thought it was great, but I came down from Alaska. There were many folks who just couldn't motivate themselves to get away from the fire pits and go out and work. It is all in your head, just go and get it, and oh yeah, have a good 'un

sfbaby1982
02-19-2007, 17:18
Jan-Feb 04 was the same. 65 to 30 degrees with 6" of snow in 48hrs during the STAR. Everyone quit then it was 70 as soon as we hit the barracks. It was like those guys souls had just packed up and left.

On another note...dude there's an unofficial rule in the military. You (like me in some ways) aren't savy about when it comes time to shut up. But I perhaps not like you right now are hard...so in conclusion be prepared to hear this expression:

"you are either smart or hard" (and other derivatives of the same effect, however you can be both too... but in your case I'd shoot for either and hope for both)

R

P.S. I went through SFAS with/and still have a torn ACL and had had a Splenic Rupture 12 months prior. Hit selection at 300 and never looked back...just get it done dude or adopt the word "hooah!" as your sole answer to all questions.

Scimitar
02-19-2007, 19:39
Thanks for the feedback folks,

Regarding shutting up, I am definitely practicing the Grey man. Its god dam harder then I thought. I communicate and query everything for a living, (literally) and I'm a verbal processor to boot! (lol).

I'm determined to break these habits before I ship.

I asked the old man the other day how I can tell the difference between weather I should speak up or not. (Ex LTC officer).

He said if you think of something to say. Say it in your head first. Then if it sounds good, just check it one more time.

Once you have done that hopefully the person you want to say the thing to has wandered off and in that way the temptation to say the stupid thing you were thinking of has gone away too. :D

Sage advice from a BTDT