View Full Version : Bye Bye Army Green
Eagle5US
06-05-2006, 17:18
Looks like we're going to strictly wearing BLUES. I like 'em- There's going to be a bunch of questions now I am certain...
-Class B's?
-Blousing Jump Boots?
-Which funny hat to wear?
Another money saving measure by having snuffy" buy another new uniform. 2011 isn't that far off...but far off enough that I SHOULD retire that year.
I'm going to be one of those hold outs I am sure...If I dug really deep I may find a set of Khaki's with my PV2 or PFC chevrons sewn on them along with my PT "banana suit" :D
House of BLUES (http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=9108)
Eagle
Eagle5US
06-05-2006, 17:56
In the interest of the linky not working...:rolleyes:
here's the article:
Army streamlines service uniforms to one blue Army Service Uniform
WASHINGTON (Army News Service, June 5, 2006) – Army service uniforms will be streamlined to one blue Army Service Uniform, the Army announced today.
“World-class Soldiers deserve a simplified, quality uniform. The blue Army Service Uniform is a traditional uniform that is consistent with the Army’s most honored traditions,” said Sgt. Maj. Of the Army Kenneth O. Preston.
“We have all of these variations of uniforms – green, blue and white,” said Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker. “It makes sense for us to go to one traditional uniform that is really sharp and high quality and which Soldiers will be very proud to wear. And that’s what we’ve done by adopting this blue Army Service Uniform that reflects simplicity, quality, utility and tradition.”
Many Soldiers already own an Army blue uniform (now to be called the Army Service Uniform) and may continue to wear it. Improvements will be made to the fabric and fit. Reduction of the number of uniforms will reduce the burden on Soldiers for purchases and alteration cost.
Introduction in the Army Military Clothing Sales Stores should begin in fourth quarter of fiscal year 2007. Introduction in the Clothing Bag should begin first quarter 2009. The Mandatory Possession Date is expected to be fourth quarter fiscal year 2011.
A wear-out date for the Army Green Class A and White dress uniforms will be determined at a later date.
The consolidation of Army service uniforms is part of a streamlining process. In 2004, the Army reduced the number of battle dress uniforms from three to one when it adopted the Army Combat Uniform in place of the Woodland Green Battle Dress Uniform (winter and summer versions) and the Desert Combat Uniform. That uniform consolidation has been a resounding success in terms of soldier acceptance and reducing the variety of combat uniforms with which they must deal.
Army Blue as a uniform color traces its origins back to the National Blue and was first worn by Soldiers in the Continental Army of 1779.
Besides tradition, the Army Service Uniform reflects utility, simplicity and quality.
• In utility, the blue Army Service Uniform provides a basic set of components that allow Soldiers to dress from the lowest end to the highest end of service uniforms with little variation required.
• In simplicity, the blue Army Service Uniform eliminates the need for numerous sets of green Class A uniforms, service blue uniforms and, for some, Army white mess uniforms (and tunics, for women). Streamlining various service uniforms into one Army Service Uniform reduces the burden on Soldiers in the same manner that the Army Combat Uniform (ACU) did for the field utility uniform.
• In quality, the blue Army Service Uniform is made of a durable material that is suitable for daily use without special care.
Information about the blue Army Service Uniform and its composition is available at www.army.mil/symbols/uniforms.
Eagle
Bill Harsey
06-05-2006, 18:28
What color are United Nations troops uniforms?
sounds like prison uniform design.
Airbornelawyer
06-05-2006, 18:57
-Which funny hat to wear?
In a nod to tradition, my vote is for the Model 1881:
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-05-2006, 19:14
One of these days the Army is going to get it right and stop worrying about what they look like when they are not fighting. Perhaps these uniforms might help kill the enemy as they die laughing over this lunacy. The Army has gone through more turmoil over headgear, dress uniforms, badges, pomp and circumstance and non of it has yet contributed much to finding, fixing and finishing off an adversary. Just my .02 cents.
One of these days the Army is going to get it right and stop worrying about what they look like when they are not fighting.
I can't wait!
Blue has been the color of the American Army since the revolution. I am no expert on uniforms but will give a general rundown.
By the expansionest period/Mexican War the Army uniform had become the Dark Blue Jacket over Light Blue pants.
By the Civil War it was a Dark Blue Frock Coat over Dark blue pants. With the expansion of the Army the Infantry uniform became the Dark Blue sack coat over the sky blue pants. This with modifications in cut and material is the modern "Dress Blues".
By the Spanish American War the Army was moving into dirt colored field uniforms.
Somehow in the clasic case of military "smarts" by WW II the Army had gone to work uniforms, battle uniforms, semi dress uniforms (pink & greens for the officers/greens for the enlisted soldiers), and formal dress/mess uniforms.
By the 60s the greens (gone was the Ike jacket) had evolved into the hated bus driver suit.
Maybe we are getting back to our roots.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-06-2006, 19:14
Ahhh, maybe that is why Kermit feels it isn't easy being green. :D
uboat509
06-06-2006, 21:30
One of these days the Army is going to get it right and stop worrying about what they look like when they are not fighting. Perhaps these uniforms might help kill the enemy as they die laughing over this lunacy. The Army has gone through more turmoil over headgear, dress uniforms, badges, pomp and circumstance and non of it has yet contributed much to finding, fixing and finishing off an adversary. Just my .02 cents.
I'd like to believe this but I am not so sure. One of the reasons I came into SF in the first place was to escape the all the leaders that I had had that made judgemtents about a soldier based primarily or even solely on the soldier's appearance. I understand using appearance as an indicator but I have known too many leaders for whom it was THE indicator of whether a soldier was squared away or not. When I used to go to other military websites there would long discussions about what the dress uniform should look like and when I would make comments like the Col. made I would get these long diatribes about how the dress uniform is just as important as the combat uniform. It never has and never will make sense to me.
SFC W
Spartan12
06-06-2006, 23:13
The blue Army Service Uniform....it look pretty professional, but so did the greens. I don't really care about garrison uniform, whether its green or blue, I'll always be proud to serve my country. My comment here is, I don't know if its just me but when we train, I can spot the soldiers wearing ACU more then soldiers in BDU. I hope the Army can research more on camofluage before we lose soldier because the enemy can spot them wearing grey.
.... My comment here is, I don't know if its just me but when we train, I can spot the soldiers wearing ACU more then soldiers in BDU.... I hope the Army can research more on camofluage before we lose soldier because the enemy can spot them wearing grey.....
There is no "one size fits all" cammy. Color/Patern variations occur within a country, much less the world. While much of the Middle East appears to be Mud Yellow on TV it's not.
Some of the mountain areas would require almost a solid real dark brown, moving through lighter molted shades down to a solid real light tan in some areas of the flats.
Throw in woodlands around the world and you get the same thing in the green shades.
"One size fits all" don't!
We played with uniforms in the late 70s and early 80s before we started getting the first pattern desert uniform. We ended up with Khakis for day time and real faded jungle cammies for night. We never got any static from HQ over field uniforms. We knew in 83 that the Choc-Chip was too light for most areas.
The more you turn the wheel the more you return to the same spot.
Pete
Kyobanim
06-07-2006, 05:56
They need to go back to kakkis. That was the best garrison uniform they ever had.
They need to go back to kakkis. That was the best garrison uniform they ever had.
Starched Khakis with Buck Sergeant stripes, highly polished jump boots and a Green Beret. Man, I liked that uniform.
Pete
Eagle5US
06-07-2006, 06:33
The blue Army Service Uniform....it look pretty professional, but so did the greens. I don't really care about garrison uniform, whether its green or blue, I'll always be proud to serve my country. My comment here is, I don't know if its just me but when we train, I can spot the soldiers wearing ACU more then soldiers in BDU. I hope the Army can research more on camofluage before we lose soldier because the enemy can spot them wearing grey.
Focus-this isn't a discussion on the ACU:rolleyes:
Eagle
Simple Simon
06-07-2006, 06:33
IMHO, the upper echelons of the Army need to put more money and thought into equiptment and training and stop wasting time changing our uniforms. There are still units using M16A4 with iron sights, which works, but and acog or eotech might make a soldiers job easier. All these changes just end up making people spend their own money on uniforms, alterations, etc, etc. A waste of time and money.
x SF med
06-07-2006, 07:22
I kinda miss the old Class B Khaki uniform... and Army Green Class A's are not a bad uniform either. I agree with all those who stated that the DA is spending too much time worrying about headgear and dress uniforms. But, I have to disagree with SimpleSimon re: iron sights - if you want to really learn how to shoot, learn on iron sights, and practice with them occasionally - what's going to happen if your optics get damaged and you have never used iron sights before? goes back to training....
Simple Simon
06-07-2006, 07:38
Good point, bad example on my part of lack of equiptment, you get my drift.
Trip_Wire (RIP)
06-07-2006, 12:06
Check out this article from Stars & Stripes:
http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37694
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-07-2006, 13:10
re: iron sights - if you want to really learn how to shoot, learn on iron sights, and practice with them occasionally - what's going to happen if your optics get damaged and you have never used iron sights before? goes back to training....
Ahh yes, and the same can be said about an every increasing dependence on technology. Going to be interesting when those satellites are taken out and no one remembers how to set up a doublet and send code manually, how to make their own explosives, where to go to get the ingredients for a first fire mixture, how to use a compass and read a map, etc, etc, etc.
Me, I prefered the TWs because after fifteen minutes in starched kakhis I just resembled every other wrinkled and creased tan duffle bag.
Check out this article from Stars & Stripes:
http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37694
It's going to be sad to see the colored unit patches and tabs go.
Also, I wonder if Airborne troops will be allowed to blouse their trousers? And does this mean that wear of the beret will be limited to ACUs in garrison?
......Me, I prefered the TWs because after fifteen minutes in starched kakhis I just resembled every other wrinkled and creased tan duffle bag.
Now, Now, Sir;
I was going to put in my Khaki post that all the "Old Farts" were in TWs.:D
True, any time in Khakis and they looked like they got hit with a wrinkle bomb but we generally only wore them for Payday Muster and then going down to the NCO Club.
As long as you stayed out of the sun and standing up they looked good.
Pete
It's going to be sad to see the colored unit patches and tabs go.
Last I checked, there are metal tabs authorized for wear with Dress Blues.
x SF med
06-07-2006, 17:43
COL M-
You will be happy to know that I am still using my land nav training - earlier this year we were setting up a mooring field at my marina - I laid out the the area for the mushroom anchors with a lensatic, and a maritime chart - and was accurate to about .5-1m after the ywere dropped into the water. The guys dropping the concrete blocks used a GPS - and everything was so screwed up, off by 2-5 m that 75% had to be reset.... thank the land nav gods for 8 digit grid coordinates! and yes, I carry my lensatic when I sail, and only use the GPS to get speed over ground and my general heading.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-07-2006, 19:10
[QUOTE=Pete]Now, Now, Sir;
I was going to put in my Khaki post that all the "Old Farts" were in TWs.:D
/QUOTE]
Damn, guess I shouldn't bring up the white name tapes, full-color insignia, Ranger Tab with khaki background and footlocker displays with shaving brush, tooth powder, and that awe-inspiring wpn system the Davy Crocket.
Jack Moroney-wondering where that packet of Green Lucky Strikes from my C-rat packet went I promised to give my 1SG?
and that awe-inspiring wpn system the Davy Crocket.
Jack Moroney-wondering where that packet of Green Lucky Strikes from my C-rat packet went I promised to give my 1SG?
Did you miss out on the Jiminy Cricket, the hand grenade version? :D
Pat
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-07-2006, 19:34
[QUOTE=Jack Moroney
Did you miss out on the Jiminy Cricket, the hand grenade version? :D
Pat
Yep, couldn't throw it far enough to get out of the downwind hazard envelope although it did provide a multi-purpose approach cause it would boil the water in your metal canteen, give you a tan, and start everyone's cooking fires in one blinding flash.
Yep, couldn't throw it far enough to get out of the downwind hazard envelope although it did provide a multi-purpose approach cause it would boil the water in your metal canteen, give you a tan, and start everyone's cooking fires in one blinding flash.
The instant tan part was cool. Especially with the khakis. ;)
Pat
I have to say, even though I'm not sad to see the greens go, I'm not much happier about the blues. Never liked them, either. Far as I'm concerned, the Army should be wearing khaki, and without all the bling that makes a current private in Class A's have the same amount of badges, medals, and ribbons as a WWII hero.
My solution: put the men back in khakis, and spend all the money you'd save on making sure we had real camouflage in the fighting uniforms.
incommin
06-08-2006, 14:30
There must be something in the water at the Pentagon. The Air Force is changing uniforms too!
EX-Gold Falcon
06-08-2006, 15:54
Delete the lower pockets, convert the upper pockets into a typical sport coat strip, delete all the gold buttons and convert them into hidden buttons much like the last generation bdu jacket.
Simplified and streamlined. Not so frinkin gaudy.....
my .02
T.
P.S. Green or Khaki would have looked better and more distinguished.....
Got my issue of the Army Times and on pages 14-15 is the low down.
To wrap it up, enlisted wear the Blues with no gold strip on the legs and black beret, NCOs (Corporals and up) wear the gold strip and saucer cap, officers basically the same as NCOs with the saucer cap.
Gray shirt and tie for nomal wear and white shirt with bow tie for formal wear.
"All" soldiers will wear low quarter shoes. No jump boots, no unit patches (left or right) and if I read it right no sew on tabs although I think there is one authorized for the Blues (Presidents 100????)
So I guess the days of bloused jump boots and green berets with a dress uniform are gone (at least for now).
Somebody dig up the on-line link?
Pete
I don't believe the President's 100 is authorized on the blues.
The tab shown in some of the pictures was the "Honor Guard" tab. Because the Old Guard is a ceremonial unit they don't follow the regs.
...footlocker displays with shaving brush, tooth powder, and that awe-inspiring wpn system the Davy Crocket.on Saturday mornings...and once upon a time, the CO of 1/10 was a former Davy Crockett platoon leader...hmmm....
everytime i feel regrets about retiring, the Uniform Board (or is it the Uniform Bored) meets and changes something...
Actually, If I remember correctly the Army never "issued" a light shade of blue pants from it's coat until the creation of the modern dress blue uniform. .......eyes
Nope; The Regular Army Uniform right before the Civil War was Dark Blue Frock Coats (longer, almost to the knees and a bit more fancy) over Dark Blue pants. With the great expansion of the Army they went with the Sack Coat (easy to produce quickly under government contracts) and the Sky Blue pants. With that said never say never as many unit pictures from that period can be found of many variations in uniform wear.
Now take the Henry Rifle........
There are some nice links posted in this thread for better background and pictures.
Pete
They need to go back to kakkis. That was the best garrison uniform they ever had.
+1
x SF med
06-17-2006, 09:00
+2
I've heard in the past, that yes in fact the sun did fade the trousers of the Soldiers, but the coats were often not worn so they would retain their original shade of blue when worn.
So, when the Field Soldier came into DC, with his faded trousers he was the envy of pogues everywhere. So they changed the shade of the trousers to match the faded ones that the Field Soldiers wore, in an effort to put the pogues on an even footing.
Don't know whether or not thats true, and I can't recall when or where I first heard that.
As far as the grey shirt, what the? I vote dark blue shirt (same shade as the coat) if we're not going to be khaki.
I've heard the legend about the two shades of blue being due to fading, but the Army's history site (linked in the original article cited by Eagle) has a different, and IMO more plausible, explanation:
To avoid the stains of winter mud on Soldiers’ white pantaloons or overalls, annual clothing allowances, as early as 1817, provided for the issue of more practical grey, and by 1832 Soldiers were wearing light blue trousers. This established the traditional contrasting color scheme that avoided the difficult color-match of blue coat and trousers worn by generals and staff officers.
The full article, written by a curator with the Army Center of Military History, can be found at http://www.army.mil/symbols/uniforms/history.html
The dyes that produced the dark and light blues in the wool were very color fast and existing uniforms from the period show little fading. Some that were displayed in areas that got sun through the windows over the years do show fading.
With the start of the war the Union was able to continue the importation of dyes producing the two colors.
The confederates were not so lucky. With the blockade came shortages of many types. One was dyes. Uniforms were produced in the local state arsenals. The local arsenals reverted to vegatable dyes from different materials to produce shades of gray, tan and off brown.
The organic dyes all faded greatly from exposure to sunlight. Based on the base compound used, uniforms would fade into various shades of brown/tan, light green and light blue/almost off white.
Under campaign conditions a uniform might last 3-4 months. A new uniform issue would be made for the soldiers needing replacement items. Based on this system and throw in some civilain cloths and you can see in the existing black and white photos of confederate forces the various shades of colors.
Union Photos do not show (very, very, very little) fading within the units.
A side note about Civil War Photos. Based on the way they were produced if you go into the government archives and pick out the high file size ones you can pick out amazing details. Fun way to kill a weekend.
Edited to add - http://civilwar.si.edu/home.html
And http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/cwphtml/cwpabt.html
There are many examples of "I've heard" "I was told" on the subject of uniforms and equipment.
The following link takes a look at one of those issues that people have fights over. It is on the 1853 Enfield Rifled-Musket that was used by both sides in the Civil War.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1864/enf/enfblue.htm
Pete
x SF med
06-25-2006, 18:16
Thanks Pete - now my eyes and my brain hurt -did you notice that they blued the text too, I guess to lend credence to the argument (good post)
Pete,
Can I get your phone number? I might have to win a bet or a gameshow someday? ;) :D