View Full Version : Dog Handler SF MOS
A few years ago I heard that SOC was adding a Dog Handler MOS to Special Forces. My source was fairly reliable, so I may have misunderstood the statement.
He mentioned practicing HALO jumps with his dog strapped to him and the dog releasing his bowels and biting him when he jumped. That sounded like a blast to me so I have been keeping an eye out for mention of it since.
Clearly there is no dog handler MOS (18K? ;) ), but would you guys consider such an addition to the team helpful?
It seems like it would be useful on direct action missions (for room clearing), but I'd imagine it would be unused or even harmful in other missions.
:munchin
DITTO!!!:rolleyes:
NousDefionsDoc
05-24-2006, 07:28
No.
Did you read the information provided here?
He mentioned practicing HALO jumps with his dog strapped to him and the dog releasing his bowels and biting him when he jumped.
This thread is useless without pics! :D
My uncle told me this same story, but it started when he was in Vietnam!
I'm not to sure a dog would do well on O2 for a HALO jump. Also having an "18Kilo" on a team would be about as useful a helicopter pilot.
Just my 2¢
This thread is useless without pics! :D
Ask, and ye shall receive.
No.
Did you read the information provided here?
Yes.
I was hoping to get some feedback on a topic I thought was interesting... I'll go back to answering questions in the knuckledragger forum where I belong.
I'm not to sure a dog would do well on O2 for a HALO jump. Also having an "18Kilo" on a team would be about as useful a helicopter pilot.
He said the dog didn't have any O2 (I recall inquiring about a doggie mask).
This thread is useless without pics! :D
EDIT: beaten to it.
NousDefionsDoc
05-24-2006, 08:45
Why would having a dog handler on an ODA be an interesting topic? But fine, let's discuss it.
Looking at the SF missions, how many do you see in there in which a dog would be the critical path to success?
What does a dog bring to the table that would warrant taking the risk of having a soldier jump the dog into the TAOR?
The dog weighs what? 75-100 lbs.? How about the food? Who's going to carry the extra water?
Personally, I think this belongs in the "Romper Room".:rolleyes:
There is a reason for the CMF 18 series. It was to eliminate all of the extra support personnel from carrying the SF qualification. There has been use for dogs in the past and just like then if the need arises a dog and handler will be ATTACHED for the duration of the need. The same as for SIGINT, CCT etc.
Besides they don't have berets to fit pooches.:D
Besides they don't have berets to fit pooches.:D
Not true. 6144 :D
NousDefionsDoc
05-24-2006, 09:04
Keith,
To what missions are dogs considered to be an asset? I would think guarding a facility and perhaps post-incident response. Any others?
Besides they don't have berets to fit pooches.:D
Here's three dogs wearing Berets.
What about dogs with fricken lasers on their heads?
Keith,
To what missions are dogs considered to be an asset? I would think guarding a facility and perhaps post-incident response. Any others?
There are many types of dogs. We have used the Scout Dog in the past as have the NVA against us Specifically in Laos. Perhaps Ambush Master as well as I can attest to this. Scout dogs have been used to track and locate bad guys. In addition there are dogs trained to alert to munitions/explosives which cqan be used to "sniff" out caches as well as IUD's, OOOPS IED's.:D
We didn't need them in RVN since our indig could hear, see and smell as well as any dog I met.
There was a SCOUT dog school at Lenngries and a few got to attend as well as we also took a few on training exercises.
NO MOS!!!
What breed is the pooch on the right?:D
rubberneck
05-24-2006, 10:05
What breed is the pooch on the right?:D
That is one of those new fangled cross breeds like the puggle (half pug half beagle). In this case the dog on the right is half Field Spainel and half Pug or commonly referred to as fugly.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-24-2006, 10:07
How about the food?
Perhaps we are dealing with the 1st SFG guys bringing in fresh food to the indig:D
We used to jump a St Bernard pup in C Company 10th, but that was because it was a mascot. In a subsequent tour they were jumping a piglet for the same reason.
But that was back when we had LTs on teams and could make them animal control officers to go along with some of their other "unofficial" duties like generator seat jumper, wind dummy, an M-5 kits supplement supply officer.
uboat509
05-24-2006, 10:36
Let's not discount this out of hand. I could certainly see a dog with a friggin' "laserbeam" on his head have all sorts of uses.
SFC W
Keith,
To what missions are dogs considered to be an asset? I would think guarding a facility and perhaps post-incident response. Any others?
and the answer:
Let's not discount this out of hand. I could certainly see a dog with a friggin' "laserbeam" on his head have all sorts of uses.
I wasn't trying to say it was a good idea with this topic, just saying I heard of it and wondering if there was a use/need for a dog that I wasn't aware of. I wouldn't dare act like I understand based on my "book knowledge".
Warrior-Mentor
05-24-2006, 14:56
Let's not discount this out of hand. I could certainly see a dog with a friggin' "laserbeam" on his head have all sorts of uses.
SFC W
It's been good for a laugh or two anyway.
Basenshukai
05-24-2006, 15:34
I'll answer this from my own experience in practical application where guys want to kill you.
These dogs solve the following issues:
1) Your GMV Ground Assault Convoy gets into a chokepoint between a river and some high terrain. It looks like a great spot for an IED. The dog dismounts and the handler lets him loose. The dog sits in the middle of the road. You send an element forward with metal detectors and they find the wires on the side of the road. You probably saved some lives that day.
2) You do a DA mission that requires a site exploitation afterwards. The longer your remain on the OBJ, the longer your "fans" have to place little surprises for you on your way back. You are either looking for ordnance, or similar material. Your dog comes into the compound once it is secured and finds a cache of 107 rockets within minutes. It would have taken us humans hours to find it in that great hiding spot. Guess who won't get rocketted for a few days?
3) The dogs can be quite intimidating as well and people tend to fear them more than your M-4. I know it sounds crazy, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Folks give you a wide berth when one of your team members is a cousin of the wolf family.
4) The dog, over time, becomes very protective of the team. When sleeping in a RON site (Patrol Base), he usually keeps guard over those that sleep. It's weird. I don't know why they do this. I guess that's his pack as he sees it. It's kind of funny when you patrol with a new attachment that the dog does not know well. If the "new" guy approaches a team member while he is unaware, or asleep, the dog will look at him like "And where the f__k do you think you're going?" (That made me smile. There is a good story attached to this.)
There are plenty of other examples, but OPSEC prevails.
Did the popcorn come with butter?:munchin
Nothing is impossible.....but it's not likely. :D
A friend of mine is a dog handler in the 16th MP BDE here on Bragg. I showed him this and he said sure,.....how you gonna keep him cool? The dogs get AC in the sandbox. He'd also made the comment that if the dog goes T/U, the handler is now somebody's Beeotch.
The dog has it's purpose, sniffing for UXO/ IED's is plus in my book. They'd be good to take house to house on raids to seek out munitions and get that extra "compliance" if someone is unwilling to open a door. I know you get chomper to get a mouth full of my a$$, I'll do about anything. :D
Basenshukai - give us the storry please :D
Perhaps we are dealing with the 1st SFG guys bringing in fresh food to the indig:D
We used to jump a St Bernard pup in C Company 10th, but that was because it was a mascot. In a subsequent tour they were jumping a piglet for the same reason.
But that was back when we had LTs on teams and could make them animal control officers to go along with some of their other "unofficial" duties like generator seat jumper, wind dummy, an M-5 kits supplement supply officer.
Verdammt!! We had to carry our own booze!!:D
Warrior-Mentor
05-24-2006, 16:31
Doesn't make them a permanent attachment to an ODA...more like a SOT-A...a special attachment as mission dictates.
Basenshukai
05-24-2006, 16:48
Nothing is impossible.....but it's not likely.
My example is not theoretical. We use the K-9s very often. And, yeah, it's hot; it's a desert. And some days is not good to take the dog out. A K-9 is not a bad "tool" when applied properly. It will not become a permanent fixture in a detachment. If the dog goes T/U, the handler goes away on the next A/C with his dog and a replacement comes in, if available. If a vehicle goes T/U, we leave it in the firebase and don't take it on a mission. It's very simple, really.
And, our handlers wouldn't mind being our "beeotch" because they'd know that their lives are in our hands and we will protect them just as they protect us (with their skills and their dogs). We don't mistreat our assets. Maybe, your friend has been attached to other folks. I only know how we do things. Others? Who knows?
Doesn't make them a permanent attachment to an ODA...more like a SOT-A...a special attachment as mission dictates.
Just like Basenshukai said - they work and are a add "tool" for a ODA to use. But its all on how well you know how to use those extra people that you can request for a mission. Most don't like NON-SF types on a mission, we don't like to baby sit others.
But Dogs on some mission do work - their an addition to the ODA. Not a 18 SERIES MOS and no ASI.
Most don't like NON-SF types on a mission, we don't like to baby sit others.
That attitude quickly evaporates with experience and maturity.
Augmentation personnel perform valuable duties that you can't. I don't recall ever having to baby-sit. Normally only the very best volunteered and were assigned.
Most don't like NON-SF types on a mission, we don't like to baby sit others.
That attitude quickly evaporates with experience and maturity.
Augmentation personnel perform valuable duties that you can't. I don't recall ever having to baby-sit. Normally only the very best volunteered and were assigned. Our augmentation personnel were considered as part of the team.
Basenshukai - give us the storry please :D
That'll be $100.00 for the story, and $12.00 for the Rat....
.....wait a sec.....
Damn....wrong thread. :D
Soft Target
05-25-2006, 06:26
But that was back when we had LTs on teams and could make them animal control officers to go along with some of their other "unofficial" duties like generator seat jumper, wind dummy, an M-5 kits supplement supply officer.
Please COL, that would be turbulance tester (or in the case of Field Grade Officer, Vector Analyst) or at least that's what they told me when they "volunteered" me into that honor.
More on topic, I understood that any canine requirement was negated by the creation of the SF Warrant Officer (right, Bulldog?).
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-25-2006, 14:15
(right, Bulldog?).
Apparently you have been talking to some of my "Kameranden"?