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Old 02-25-2004, 19:00   #1
Maas
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"Leave No Teacher Standing"

A phrase I heard today during Parent - Teachers Conference describing the Presidents Education Program. I have a first and fourth grader.

Although both teachers I met were strong Democrats and quite pissed about the Education Secretary calling their union a "terrorist organization" they did make some valid points.

1. The test is 4 hours long, five days in a row. This is an incredible amount of time for me to sit still and concentrate, much less my 10 year old son.

2. Two students who just arrived from Russia have never attended school and will test in this group. Thus pulling the collective score down. Funding is based on these scores.

I have not kept up with this, but hoped maybe some of you might have some input.

What do you think about it?
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Old 02-25-2004, 19:08   #2
The Reaper
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I think the Home Schooling surge pretty much says it all about most public schools.

In the past 40 years, I have seen teachers as a group, go from caring, nurturing, well-educated members of the community to largely unqualified or underqualified hacks kept in their jobs only by a socialist, leftist agenda pushing union.

The sad part is, many parents don't care, and the school represents a free baby-sitting service for their unfocused, ill-behaved (but can do no wrong) progeny.

You get a school with open-minded, dedicated teachers, motivated students, and concerned parents it is a beautiful thing, but the educational system is designed to break those combinations up and reward the worst performers.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR
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Old 02-25-2004, 19:09   #3
Dan
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I think that many teachers will start to push their political beliefs on our children. Be sure to let your children know the real truth for that you know and believe and not that teachers across America believe politically.

I've made it a practice to watch things like the "State of the Union" with my boys. This year my 12 year old asked me if Kennedy and some of the others were Americans. Nuff said.
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Old 02-25-2004, 19:13   #4
The Reaper
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Dan:

You know, I am beginning to like you. In a non-homo kind of way, of course.

Tell CC to get his happy ass back in here.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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Old 02-25-2004, 19:33   #5
brewmonkey
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I would have to echo TR's comments. We took our son out of the public schools this year as they are failing and failing quickly. His school is about to be taken over by the federal government because their test scores show no imporvement and in fact a steady decline.

Last year when the principal pulled students into the auditorium to give them a pep talk before the test, some parents took offense and suggested that she did it to demean the children. She was relieved and later fired for this.

There is no such thing as Special Ed anymore. They are all in class together, often in an overcrowded room, where they move at the pace of the slowest child. The special ed children recieve ONE extra hour a week of help from the Special Ed teacher.

I spent a good portion of the last year as a parent in the classroom assisting the teacher with the daily schedule. It is amazing to see that these kids do not care, and the parents are worse. It is true, school is a day care center and that is about it for most of the kids, second only to the fact that school is a fashion parade. it is horrible the way some people allow a 10 year old to dress, and then let them out of the house with that crap on. Morals are going down the tubes and it is the parents allowing it to happen

I would say that a good portion of the teachers do honestly want to educate children but there are some who seem to care even less then the children do. As far as teachers pushing their political views, that has been going on for some time. I distinctly recall my junior year Am. History teacher (a left over hippie) forcing her ideas onto us and giving me crap about my pro-military stance. You are right, you can counter that by helping in your childs education. But as we said, many parents think school is day care. Do you honestly believe they will lift a finger to help their child at home much less show them the other side of the coin?

My son has improved 100% since we removed him from the PS system. Now we have a normal 10 year old who stands a chance at a good education and getting into a better college.

Ok, enough of my dysfunctional ramblings.
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Old 02-25-2004, 19:54   #6
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Men,


I have 2 kids and I am doing everything in my power to either send them to a private school here or to have my wife home school them. My son is special needs and I was NOT impressed with the program that the public schools put forth in front of me.

Both of my parents were public educators for 30+ years so I do know that good educators exist.

Best Regards,
JJ
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Old 02-25-2004, 21:21   #7
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MCC, reporting as ordered.

A little background:
My Dad taught fifth grade for over twenty years. He retired from teaching when the burden of paperwork took away so much of his time that he could no longer offer the quality of education that was his standard.

This is my fifth year to homeschool. My oldest son graduated last year, is taking some time off, then plans to attend college next Fall. It took one full year to undo the damage done by a school system that received an Exemplary rating (top score) from the state in several of the past ten years. That was damage done while I attended every meeting available, extensive phone calls, and all the support I could give to the teachers. I was, after all, a teacher's kid. The last two years, I spent every hour of my vacation time in meetings at the school. While the meetings seemed productive and the outcome both measurable and predictable, such was very rarely the case.

So, five years ago, after three years of my oldest son begging to be homeschooled, I quit my full-time job, brought my children home, and continued reading and learning about all things homeschool. Just today, I had to defend my right to homeschool my youngest son in a courtroom. I was successful. The journey for the next six years will not be easy, but is absolutely essential if I want my youngest son to have critical thinking skills. He has his own challenges, but with persistence, he has every opportunity to do almost anything he wants.

There are several public school teachers in my family - all support my decision and my efforts.

Standardized testing as it stands is a thorn that teachers and students must endure to appease bureaucrats. Every other year, I use the ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills) to assess progress. It is not mandatory in my state, but is a tool for my use. It is long, but my funding does not depend on it, nor am I required to teach to it.

Rhonda

edited to add a comment about my Dad and get back on topic

Last edited by myclearcreek; 02-25-2004 at 21:27.
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Old 02-25-2004, 21:40   #8
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Public school systems are definitely locality specific in performance. IMO, It is not the training level of teachers that has changed... well that would be the rare case for the reason of the public school's decline.

It is the children's attitudes and expectations. It is the lack of support from the administration to support the teacher's attempts at discipline. The lack of proper upbringing and individual responsibility being taught to this younger generation is probably the biggest problem in today's public schools.

As to my bias, both my parents were career public education teachers as well as one of my wife's parents. I went to public schools and so did my wife. I would send my kids to the high school of my city right now.

The teachers at the school get paid higher wages than at private schools. The high school, middle school, and two elem. facilities are new as of last year. There are cameras in every classroom to not only monitor the teachers but also to help enforce punishment for the troublemaker kids. Finally, the Bush education initiatives are being enforced and followed for teacher AND student performance. BOTH are being held accountable...They either put up or shut up.. If the kid is worthless and not going to folow the rules-off to CLC for his last chance before boot camp or worse. Teachers are given the heave ho if they don't stack up to the norms.

There is always someone waiting to get their job because of the city's pay supplement. I realize this is not a solution for most areas... but it is working in my area.

Sounds like good ole' missipp is not that bad off after all... so much for putting value in national education statistics .
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Last edited by Sacamuelas; 02-25-2004 at 21:48.
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Old 02-25-2004, 21:48   #9
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A friend recently adopted three Russian orphans. She spent the Summer teaching them how to eat with utensils, basic manners, and basic emotional security. By the time school started, they had exemplary manners, were eager to learn, and grateful for the opportunity to do so. By the end of the first six weeks, she had two boys who were rebellious, ungrateful, and constantly in trouble. The girl was succeeding in the classroom, but not as eager. She pulled the two boys out to homeschool and they are regaining lost ground by doing a seven-hour school day with additional help from a ESL tutor. The girl will finish this school year in public school, then homeschool with her brothers.

My friend calls the current state of public school a utopian orphanage based on their family's experiences with both. Survival at all costs is what her sons learned in both places.
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Old 03-01-2004, 14:16   #10
Bill Harsey
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HOME SCHOOL?

Howdy Folks, I wandered out of my sandbox over in the knife section. Wow, very interesting discussion here. Just a footnote, we homeschool all three of our kids simply because failure is not an option. Thanks! Bill
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Old 03-01-2004, 14:17   #11
Roguish Lawyer
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I agree with The Reaper.

Question for the home-schooling folks:

How do college admissions offices view home schooling?
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Old 03-01-2004, 14:27   #12
Bill Harsey
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Roguish lawyer, Some University's here in Oregon really seem to like home schooled students. As a rule the home schooled are better prepared in many areas and this makes higher ed look better. The k-12's public schools and teachers unions are vehemently opposed because it threatens their jobs and takes away "their" tax dollars. Don't get much help from them and could care less, we still have to pay the taxes to support them AND foot the bill on our homeschooling. Footnote: All three of my kids made it to Oregon State Finals in competitive swimming, two of them are third year latin students (ages 13 and 14) and test at the highest level nationally. They also behave much better than their peers on many levels. Please do not confuse this with being perfect, they are consumate trouble makers too. Bill
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Old 03-01-2004, 15:03   #13
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One would think that home-schooled kids would add quite a bit of diversity to college campuses, but . . .
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Old 03-01-2004, 16:15   #14
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Some of my own recent observations:

While the US may lag behind other countries in subjects like math, geography, science and just about everything else, the one area I have seen US students shine is in critical thought. Critical thought is the primary component in an information based economy. I think home schooling may tend to discourage critical thought as well.
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Old 03-01-2004, 18:32   #15
Bill Harsey
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Critical Thought???

Jimbo Sir, Upon what do you base your accusation of "home schooled children" not having critical thought? Bill
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