05-13-2006, 07:56
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#31
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Counselor:
Do you want to discuss M-4 optical issues on this thread, or do you have a separate question?
TR
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I am just reading. Refreshed the topic in response to NDD's post.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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05-13-2006, 16:06
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#32
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I better start learning something I don't know from the Sluggos on here or there's going to be a batch of banned asses...
Just kidding, I would never do that, just ask anyone that knows me.
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Just which of us "Sluggo's are you referring to Sarn't.
Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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05-13-2006, 16:17
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#33
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I don't specify Sluggos. They all come from the same puddle.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-13-2006, 16:24
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I don't specify Sluggos. They all come from the same puddle.
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I will get right on the request Doc, as soon as I am done learing how to fix my team mates, LBG's, and anyone else that may need it, as well as learning to teach the rest of the Sluggo's how to fix themselves and me, in the event I need a medic. lol.
Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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05-13-2006, 20:25
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#35
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surgicalcric
I will get right on the request Doc, as soon as I am done learing how to fix my team mates, LBG's, and anyone else that may need it, as well as learning to teach the rest of the Sluggo's how to fix themselves and me, in the event I need a medic. lol.
Crip
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Don't forget...fighter first, fixer second.
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Razor is offline
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05-09-2008, 10:30
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#36
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 73
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My background:
Basic Soldiering Skills with MOUT, M4, Confidence Training, and other Basic Soldiering Task Training. That's my extent.
I've trained on the M4A1, M249 SAW (Airborne Varient) M203, MK-19, and M240B.
But my training is only towards BASIC Soldiering Skills.
But my question on the M4A1, is there any way in which you can modify the barrel to increase the accuracy of it, without lengthening it? (I know that for every inch, it makes that many more rotations in the chamber, increasing spin of the round, and accuracy of the bullet.)
And also, are there any magezine modifications that would be a NO-GO for an M4? (Such as making an extended Mag etc. etc.?)
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Draco771 is offline
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05-09-2008, 10:49
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#37
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco771
My background:
Basic Soldiering Skills with MOUT, M4, Confidence Training, and other Basic Soldiering Task Training. That's my extent.
I've trained on the M4A1, M249 SAW (Airborne Varient) M203, MK-19, and M240B.
But my training is only towards BASIC Soldiering Skills.
But my question on the M4A1, is there any way in which you can modify the barrel to increase the accuracy of it, without lengthening it? (I know that for every inch, it makes that many more rotations in the chamber, increasing spin of the round, and accuracy of the bullet.)
And also, are there any magezine modifications that would be a NO-GO for an M4? (Such as making an extended Mag etc. etc.?)
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Frankly, your nomenclature and understanding of the weapon is atrocious. Where have you received your basic military education? Bullets do not rotate in the chamber, increase spin, or necessarily improve accuracy in a longer barrel.
First, the shooter needs to be able to outshoot the issued rifle and ammo. If not, the rest of this is a waste of ammo, and frankly, most soldiers cannot shoot better than the rifle as issued.
IF you were able to shoot better than the system would allow, a limited number of shooters would benefit from:
1. Use better ammo.
2. Freefloat the handguards.
3. Install a better trigger.
4. Install and train on magnifying optical sights
5. Install a longer barrel to increase muzzle velocity and thus have a flatter trajectory with less compenasation or hold over required.
Longer mags mean more weight, increased feeding problems, reduce your ability to get into a low prone, get caught while getting in and out of vehicles, doing CQB etc. IMHO, a good shooter should not have a problem going 30 rounds between reloads. The M-16 and M-4 users are riflemen, not SAW gunners.
HTH.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-10-2008, 11:10
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#38
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 859
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Sights
I came across this alternate back up sight for the M4/M16 series rifles that after some practice looks promising.
http://www.championgunsights.com/Gunsights_News.htm
Although this may be old news to those of you who attend the SHOT shows (unfortunately I do not meet any of the criteria to attend these ).
There are also other tritium infused sights on the market such as the sets seen here
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/428560
and http://www.xssights.com/store/tactical.html
__________________
"1000 days of evasion are better than one day in captivity"
"Too many men work on parts of things. Doing a job to completion, satisfies me."- Richard Proenneke
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BryanK is offline
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05-10-2008, 18:21
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Frankly, your nomenclature and understanding of the weapon is atrocious. Where have you received your basic military education? Bullets do not rotate in the chamber, increase spin, or necessarily improve accuracy in a longer barrel.
First, the shooter needs to be able to outshoot the issued rifle and ammo. If not, the rest of this is a waste of ammo, and frankly, most soldiers cannot shoot better than the rifle as issued.
IF you were able to shoot better than the system would allow, a limited number of shooters would benefit from:
1. Use better ammo.
2. Freefloat the handguards.
3. Install a better trigger.
4. Install and train on magnifying optical sights
5. Install a longer barrel to increase muzzle velocity and thus have a flatter trajectory with less compenasation or hold over required.
Longer mags mean more weight, increased feeding problems, reduce your ability to get into a low prone, get caught while getting in and out of vehicles, doing CQB etc. IMHO, a good shooter should not have a problem going 30 rounds between reloads. The M-16 and M-4 users are riflemen, not SAW gunners.
HTH.
TR
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Or a gas piston upper. I think the GPU will keep the M4 in the running long after we are gone
__________________
Sounds like a s#*t sandwhich, but I'll fight anyone, I'm in.
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kgoerz is offline
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05-11-2008, 16:23
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#40
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 73
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Weight of the M4?
Question for those who operate the M4 etc...
I've noticed the SOPMOD has a crap load of accessories, are all of them actually needed?
What i mean is, the M4 already weighs roughly 7lbs...
And to my knowledge (and experience on this one) the more stuff you mount onto your M4, the more and more it weighs...
I've always been told best set-up, is an ACOG or Reflex, flashlight, front grip, and that was the max extent you go...
But from what I've noticed with the SOPMOD, there are a lot more things that are put onto the M4...
I have no experience using an M4 with anything else, other then the above listed items... So I have no experience witha ny of the other gadgets...
But is the extra weight actually worth it? And do all of the extra items really make the M4 that much better? NOT talking smack or anything, just wondering about the opinions of those on the board...
Because too my knowledge, it's possible to rack up an M4 to weigh around 30+lbs if enough accessories are added to it... (I've got a pic, I'll see if I can find it... But it essentially was a joke a friend sent me, it's of an M4, with an M203, front grip, five different kind of sniper scopes, two different types of ACOGs, bayonet, two different kinds of flashlights, and the list goes on.... I'll see if I can find it... But it is that pic that got me thinking....)
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Draco771 is offline
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05-11-2008, 17:46
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco771
Question for those who operate the M4 etc...
I've noticed the SOPMOD has a crap load of accessories, are all of them actually needed?
What i mean is, the M4 already weighs roughly 7lbs...
And to my knowledge (and experience on this one) the more stuff you mount onto your M4, the more and more it weighs...
I've always been told best set-up, is an ACOG or Reflex, flashlight, front grip, and that was the max extent you go...
But from what I've noticed with the SOPMOD, there are a lot more things that are put onto the M4...
I have no experience using an M4 with anything else, other then the above listed items... So I have no experience witha ny of the other gadgets...
But is the extra weight actually worth it? And do all of the extra items really make the M4 that much better? NOT talking smack or anything, just wondering about the opinions of those on the board...
Because too my knowledge, it's possible to rack up an M4 to weigh around 30+lbs if enough accessories are added to it... (I've got a pic, I'll see if I can find it... But it essentially was a joke a friend sent me, it's of an M4, with an M203, front grip, five different kind of sniper scopes, two different types of ACOGs, bayonet, two different kinds of flashlights, and the list goes on.... I'll see if I can find it... But it is that pic that got me thinking....)
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The SOPMOD kit is an assemblage of accessories intended to allow SOF Soldiers to customize their weapons to meet specific mission requirements. Some of the pieces are mutually exclusive. A little research and some thought would have answered your question without attracting unfavorable attention. Weapons configurations and accessories have already been discussed extensively on this board. Use the search button.
Most of us have seen the picture of Paul Kim (SureFire) with everything mounted on an M-4; you don't need to waste time looking for it.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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05-11-2008, 20:31
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#42
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco771
Question for those who operate the M4 etc...
I've noticed the SOPMOD has a crap load of accessories, are all of them actually needed?
What i mean is, the M4 already weighs roughly 7lbs...
And to my knowledge (and experience on this one) the more stuff you mount onto your M4, the more and more it weighs...
I've always been told best set-up, is an ACOG or Reflex, flashlight, front grip, and that was the max extent you go...
But from what I've noticed with the SOPMOD, there are a lot more things that are put onto the M4...
I have no experience using an M4 with anything else, other then the above listed items... So I have no experience witha ny of the other gadgets...
But is the extra weight actually worth it? And do all of the extra items really make the M4 that much better? NOT talking smack or anything, just wondering about the opinions of those on the board...
Because too my knowledge, it's possible to rack up an M4 to weigh around 30+lbs if enough accessories are added to it... (I've got a pic, I'll see if I can find it... But it essentially was a joke a friend sent me, it's of an M4, with an M203, front grip, five different kind of sniper scopes, two different types of ACOGs, bayonet, two different kinds of flashlights, and the list goes on.... I'll see if I can find it... But it is that pic that got me thinking....)
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You seem full of gun questions based on armchair commando type discussions, but are not yet old enough to own a firearm legally, and have not yet joined the military.
Stop posting your questions here. Despite what your teacher may have told you, they are not good questions, or smart ones.
The boards at many other firearms sites seem to enjoy these sort of idle chatter, you might find one of them more to your liking.
Have a very SF day.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-12-2008, 12:32
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#43
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,466
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The M-4's biggest weakness in my opinion is the cheap magazines the army issues. That and making the troops clear thier own jams instead of raise the hand Sgt my weapon is jammed range mentality we have gotten so into now days.
Rant over
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7624U is offline
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05-12-2008, 16:12
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#44
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bloomfield, Indiana
Posts: 287
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Ditto on mags, Why the Army dumped money to come up with a prototype new plastic mag instead of going COTS I will never understand.
As to free floats and longer barrels I was just having this discussion with some folks in Bloomfield earlier this month. All free floating and adding 3.5 inches of barrel gets you is 200 more yards of somewhat precision fire. In other words a properly maintained M4 and a SPR shooting Mk262 will shoot neck and neck out to 400. its only out to 600 that the longer barrel and free float give you an advantage.
I have a Mk 12, a brand new M4 and a couple cases of 262 to try and replicate that, but ranges have been the issue here recently.
__________________
"Wide Awake, Wide Awake"
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Psywar1-0 is offline
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05-12-2008, 17:57
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#45
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 859
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Quote:
The M-4's biggest weakness in my opinion is the cheap magazines the army issues. That and making the troops clear their own jams instead of raise the hand Sgt my weapon is jammed range mentality we have gotten so into now days.
Rant over
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And the fact that preventative maintenance on the weapon itself let alone the magazines have went the way of the dodo bird among m-day/regular troops.
__________________
"1000 days of evasion are better than one day in captivity"
"Too many men work on parts of things. Doing a job to completion, satisfies me."- Richard Proenneke
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BryanK is offline
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