01-13-2015, 12:56
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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18-BRAVO Training section
Okay I'd like to start a Thread just targeting 18 Bravos. 18F's have a Booklist, so I think Bravos needed their own. Since the Bravos are the ones that will be the ones to come up with training plans for the ODA downrange, CNT's, JCET's or home station.
I know we have many big heads here so I would say keep it for weapons and training.
WHY you may ask? Because, I have been on ODAs where the Bravo's didn't know why we did shooting drills for. They didn't understand the fundamentals of shooting a (Emplace whatever here). Why we did 6", 4" or 2" DOTS. Why did you line up three Bull (E-Types) Targets side by side and stand 10 Meters from them and do this series of firing strings. Didn't have targets for lasers, optics, machine guns, etc. Understand why you have a short, medium and long barrels. Why we have a ACOG, ELCAN, Thermal sight scope, and anything else. "No need to bring that, I don't know how to XXYYZZ."
That my friends is the reason behind this thread. To provide Bravos the tools, tradecraft and KNOWLEDGE for understanding and knowing where to go get the knowledge for improving their own personal shooting TTPs. But moreover, HOW TO IMROVE their ODAs shooting skillsets and improve their ODA training schedules and plans. Knowledge on things that you as a current or former 18-Bravo wish someone had told me (You).
Also how to make their ODA better trainers to other and overseas. Keep in mind for the 18-Series, everyone is a Small Unit Tactics (SUT) Master, you all did it in SFQC. It’s not just the 18-Bravos that should be teaching this. Also everyone on the ODA should be able to train a Company level with one or two other ODA Members. SO you need to educate yourself on weapons and fundamentals of shooting even if you never been to a SFAUCC or SFARTEATC.
Lastly 18-Series you MUST know more than just your MOS. Special Forces can be broken down into 3 to 4 man split teams, you do remember that from the SFQC? Know more than just your own MOS!!
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
Last edited by MtnGoat; 01-28-2015 at 13:21.
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 12:59
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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First off I would say an ODA should be getting these on their first CNT or JCET. Great books by three great Warriors.
Green Eyes & Black Rifles: Warriors Guide to the Combat Carbine
Stay in the Fight!! Warriors Guide to the Combat Pistol
T.A.P.S. : Tactical Application of Practical Shooting
For me this T.A.P.S is one AWESOME toilet book that every SF NCO should have. It covers down of the simple reasons for weapons shooting training of tactical applications for shooting to people of all levels of marksmanship, from basic level soldiers to experience level shooters.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:28
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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25Meter Targets
First Series of 25M Zero Targets
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:31
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Standard 25 Meter Targets
This is just a stand 25 Meter target. Great to have in an draft email just in case for downrange.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:32
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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SOFMOD Targets
Here are one that were originally for the SOFMOD Kits. But with Conventional having the same sights for they are now universal.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
Last edited by MtnGoat; 01-13-2015 at 13:44.
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:37
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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PART 1 10-Meter Bore Target Boards
Part 1 for 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets for various optics, lights and lasers for typically "Conventional" non M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with a Picatinny rails system.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:38
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Part 2 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets
Part 2 for 10-Meter M4/M16 Targets for various optics, lights and lasers for typically "Conventional" non M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with a Picatinny rails system.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:40
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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ANPEQ 15 Machine Gun Target Package
Here are Target Boards for Various Machine Guns.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 13:42
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Handgun Evaluation
I have other Handguns targets but just can't find them now. Also this isn't the best thing going. But it helps for some people.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
Last edited by MtnGoat; 01-13-2015 at 13:59.
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 14:09
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Rifle Target Analyst
Now this not the best thing going, but for a simple understanding of what is going on with a Joe shooting this works.
Also it works for any rifle, as far as I can tell.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-13-2015, 16:04
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hope Mills, NC
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Well, IMHO, it's just not the engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems. As we all know it's the employment of said weapons that takes some know-how. Also, base defense plans, SUT, care and maintenance as previously stated etc, etc.
We need to teach the LBG's 7-8 (or whatever FM now a days stuff).
When I went through PH1 in 82, we did "SF Patrolling" techniques, unique to an ODA, but when down range, conventional stuff for them.
There is a delineation of said tactics...one for us, one for them...
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Out of all the places I've been, this is one of'em....
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glebo is offline
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01-14-2015, 07:37
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glebo
Well, IMHO, it's just not the engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems. As we all know it's the employment of said weapons that takes some know-how. Also, base defense plans, SUT, care and maintenance as previously stated etc, etc.
We need to teach the LBG's 7-8 (or whatever FM now a days stuff).
When I went through PH1 in 82, we did "SF Patrolling" techniques, unique to an ODA, but when down range, conventional stuff for them.
There is a delineation of said tactics...one for us, one for them...
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I agree, 100%. It's not just about know how to do a functions check on a weapon, knowing 7 principles of patrolling, or understand the fundamentals of shooting. It's know all of your MOS and then the others on your ODA in reality (IMHO).
I personally feel that USASFC needs to have the Groups set up POIs that the Groups send to USASOC to have them "blessed" off on by USASOC FDO. Then USASOC FDO or USASFC uploads them onto SIPR in a Group Folders that only that Group can get too. Each Group teaches their own basic style of say SUT, CQB, ETC to their AOR. This is so we don't have ODAs out there teaching standard 7-8 TTPs. We need each Group teaching different TTPs on every SUT, CQB, MFF, WIC. Why, cross pollination and training indicators between different Groups and countries. Also I'll just say this, you will not have some ODA teaching US AMOUT or SFAUCC TTPs to foreign nations forces.
I'll say this, I never let 18-Bravos teach 3 to 5 second rushes. I said, let them do what they want. I looked at it this way, I want a target if they table ever change and we are on the other end of the rifle. Just saying.
I would always try to beat this into guys heads when they came to me for advice for going on a PDSS for a JCET or CNT. "Hey what should I be looking for?" May advice was this.
You are going there for the Dept of State to make that Countries SOF Unit, Police Force, Counter Border Patrol Unit, Whatever units better. YOU ARE not teaching an American Unit. So don't think like an American. Find out what THEIR Standards are for weapons qualification, what the leadership considers or expects for their men to be able to do for CQB. How do they conduct SUT, CQB Room clearing, mission planning. You are their to find out what the leaderships expectation for their men in THEIR Unit. From that and seeing the facilities in country you will have to make a Training plan.
To many ODAs go into country thinking they will teach this or that. We are their to take what they know NOW or ALREADY and make them better.
Lastly I will say this, there are some that do need to be retaught or refresh their engagement of technical, upper edge weapons/systems too.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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01-14-2015, 07:49
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#13
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
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When I was 18B, it always seemed to me that our ODA didn't spend enough time on Team IAD's and other Team-specific tasks, such as rope bridges, RON procedures, etc.
When we were training indig, we were always pressed for time going all the way up to tactical training for Company-sized units, as well...
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Dusty is offline
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01-17-2015, 20:44
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#14
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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There are plenty 'sniper' or precision rifle data books out there. There isn't much for regular combat rifle. Here's a combat rifle data book for professional marksmen who want the most out of their A2/A4.
Mods, please remove if irrelevant.
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4
"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins
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Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.
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frostfire is offline
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01-25-2015, 10:10
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2010
Location: C.S. Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
When I was 18B, it always seemed to me that our ODA didn't spend enough time on Team IAD's and other Team-specific tasks, such as rope bridges, RON procedures, etc.
When we were training indig, we were always pressed for time going all the way up to tactical training for Company-sized units, as well...
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Agreed, I have noticed that the the CO level up to include many teams do not even consider a true assessment that is data from the 18F on threats and capabilities, PDSS data and the most important piece the continuity from the GCC strategic plan down to the country level on what the endstate should be and the 5 yr projection. As of now many teams are running mini SFAUC's for host nation forces that spend of their career along borders in rural/desert conditions. I myself was told what to train and I would assess anyway and brief the team leadership on what they really need.
The Q still uses 21-76 RHB however X-rays and Infantry in general the last 8 yrs learn 3-21.8 and .10 which is different in many ways. The basics stay the same and agrred with all indig do not need to be expert marksman or U.S. Infantry standards train them to what they NEED to accomplish their objectives nothing more. Recent history shows we will be fighting someone we have trained before the question is when.
The 18B needs to understand, Leadership, U.S. weapons, Marksmanship principles, tactics, defense, and equally important foreign tactics and weapon capabilities. IMHO a basic understanding of psychology and motivating factors. As a Weapons Sgt you will spend more time with indig than anyone else and will hear atmospherics daily that should end up in the daily sitrep.
Last edited by WarriorDiplomat; 01-25-2015 at 10:12.
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