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View Poll Results: Who?
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AQ
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12 |
44.44% |
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ETA
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0 |
0% |
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Other
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0 |
0% |
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Both AQ and ETA
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15 |
55.56% |
03-13-2004, 13:51
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Madrid
Why?
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-13-2004, 14:09
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,803
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I think that the poll does not allow for the most likely possibility, that AQ cooperated with the ETA and used their materials, connections, and intel to set up the hit by AQ, perhaps for compensation, at a time and place of AQ's choice, allowing them to claim responsibility.
The GoS just announced the arrest of Morroccans and Indians in connection with these attacks. The Morroccans track with AQ, not sure what the Indians would be doing, unless they are Muslims. The ETA has gone to ground, if they have any intelligence at all.
This tracks with rumors of increasing international interaction and cooperation by national or regional terrorist groups.
Just my .02.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-13-2004, 14:14
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Good point Boss, thanks for the oversight. Corrective action taken. I think I even fixed it where you can vote again if you want.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-14-2004, 15:14
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#4
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 108
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I voted for both, based on what TR pointed out.
With the perception that AQ is behind this, and voting looking likely to change the Spanish government... Is it possible we might lose Spain as an ally in the GWOT?
Their entry into our Alliance, from what I recall, was not widely supported by the people.
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Ockham's Razor is offline
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03-14-2004, 15:54
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#5
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 438
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I didn't vote because there is not enough info to determine the answer.
The attack does not fit the MO of either group. The preponderance of evidence points to ETA. However, barring a major shake-up in ETA, the attacks are way out of character.
None of the TTPs involved indicate AQ involvement. No suicide, guys wearing ski masks, and some other things. [edited to reflect current news]
I look at it this way. Say you are a member or ETA (a fairly savvy group as far as terrorist groups go) and you are pissed your group has been pretty effectively dealt with under the current President. You know that the population supports him in his campaign against you, but you know the population does not support him in his other counter-terror initiatives (which is a pretty interesting dynamic). You need to do something to get him off your ass and mobilize people to vote against him. What do you do, who do you blame and when do you do it? I argue we have already seen the answer. The wake of the operation affects the change you need which may or may not allow for your ultimate survival.
If it was an AQ/ETA tag team, we are in some deep shit.
Last edited by Jimbo; 03-14-2004 at 15:57.
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Jimbo is offline
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03-14-2004, 16:35
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#6
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: between the desert and the sea
Posts: 460
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo
What do you do, who do you blame and when do you do it?
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I'm confused . Are you suggesting an "ETA disguised as AQ" option, or an "AQ disguised as ETA" option?
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pulque is offline
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03-14-2004, 17:09
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo
If it was an AQ/ETA tag team, we are in some deep shit.
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I agree with your thinking, it was a quick plan to out the current President, and it worked.
If they are working together Spain is in deep shit with the new President, not us. They will use Spain as a jump point knowing they will not be hunted on home turf.
Now it's the "La Jihad" bring it on.....
(Kinda stupid declaring an open season on yourself.....)
Team Sergeant
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-14-2004, 17:34
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#8
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Now it's the "La Jihad" bring it on.....
(Kinda stupid declaring an open season on yourself.....)
Team Sergeant
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True. My concern over a team-up is the proliferation of collar-bomb technology and cell phone detonators. I don't like it when terrorist groups get together and compare notes.
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Jimbo is offline
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03-14-2004, 18:18
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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I find it interesting that the people of Spain (not unlike some of the people of our country) would rather blame everyone except the terrorists that perpetrated the attacks. I do not, however, find it surprising that Spain folded under this pressure.
Few countries I know would think the opposite and the attack would only harden their collective resolve. (Great Britain and Australia come to mind) This may be an emerging consideration on behalf of the terrorists, attack the weak countries, for they will not hunt you or take part in removing rouge governments. Interesting indeed.
The sad part is the terrorists seem to have won and achieved this victory without a fight. They are smarter than I gave them credit. They timed it perfect. Now we need to be on alert 11 months from now……
Team Sergeant
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-14-2004, 18:41
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#10
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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Zapatero promised to pull Spanish troops out of Iraq if he won. In exit-poll interviews, people are saying that they voted for him because they think AQ was responsible. (So I guess they do believe that there is a relationship between AQ and Saddam.)
If AQ and ETA are working together, the government will have a hard time getting the population behind the fight against either group when the other can be held partially resonsible.
I hope that bombs-before-elections doesn't become the next rage.
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lrd is offline
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03-14-2004, 18:45
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
IThe sad part is the terrorists seem to have won and achieved this victory without a fight.
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What do you think their goals were? Beyond the affecting the election?
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lrd is offline
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03-14-2004, 18:47
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#12
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,821
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Quote:
Originally posted by lrd
I hope that bombs-before-elections doesn't become the next rage.
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I do not believe that Americans would respond the same way.
Well, maybe in Massachusetts . . .
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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03-14-2004, 18:50
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#13
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
The sad part is the terrorists seem to have won and achieved this victory without a fight. They are smarter than I gave them credit. They timed it perfect. Now we need to be on alert 11 months from now……
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I think this attack is as importat to the future of terrorism as our success in Iraq is to the future of the Middle East.
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Jimbo is offline
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03-14-2004, 19:07
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo
I think this attack is as importat to the future of terrorism as our success in Iraq is to the future of the Middle East.
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I agree, this was a huge success on their part. They are now planning the next hit, anyone got a list of countries backing the United States against the AQ and Iraq?
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-14-2004, 19:09
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I do not believe that Americans would respond the same way.
Well, maybe in Massachusetts . . .
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Agreed, but we would out the current President based on his failure to protect us....
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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