Afghan Security Not Ready for 2014, Report Says

[MtnGoat]

Well not like this is anything new.. Where's the peace pipe?? I didn;t know either to start a new thread or place this back into the nightmare called Afghanistan Thread.

Afghan Security Not Ready for 2014, Report Says

By Paul D. Shinkman
October 31, 2012

Afghanistan won't be ready to maintain the infrastructure for its security forces following the kind of drawdown that both candidates for president prescribe, a new report finds.

A low hiring rate, few technical skills, an inefficient procurement process and a lack of preparedness are among the reasons the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction believes that country won't be able to operate and maintain its own security forces' facilities after the U.S. and coalition troops begin withdrawing in 2014.

The report follows up on the $800 million the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers gave to a Exelis, a Virginia-based contractor, in 2010 to ensure Afghan security forces in both the northern and southern parts of the country would be able to maintain their facilities.

In a memo included in the report, the corps officials state Exelis was not performing sufficient quality control on the services it was contracted to supply.

The full report is available here.

[Unapologetic Soldier]

Yep nothing new! IMO, lack of logistical capabilities and corruption will be the demise of ANSF come 2014.

[Basenshukai]

Oh, well. We can't hang out in there forever. So, if they are not ready, they are not ready. As an officer who has literally picked up our men in pieces off the battlefield, I'm no longer willing to sacrifice any more of our blood and treasure for people that refuse to move forward. The horse does not want to drink water - even after we have moved the water to him - then let him die of thirst.

[Destrier]

We were less prepared to fight the Brits.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Destrier

We were less prepared to fight the Brits.

Possibly, but we had men of vision, integrity, and a system that was functional.

I don't think the Afghans have any of the above. Good governance is going to be the key, and they don't have it.

I am beginning to come around to Bas' perspective.

TR

[Astronomy]

Basenshukai: ...I'm no longer willing to sacrifice any more of our blood and treasure for people that refuse to move forward. The horse does not want to drink water - even after we have moved the water to him - then let him die of thirst.

Exactly. All we ever needed in Afghanistan were local alliances...which we had in 2001/2002. There was never a necessity for a functioning country or further nation building.

Even under the old monarchy, Afghanistan was more properly a geographic region than a nation. U.S. GWOT goals in Afghanistan could have been met with a permanently decentralized federation and a merely ceremonial rump Kabul government.

I liked the warlord system better. It was a cash and carry, results oriented arrangement that better suited our purpose.

[MtnGoat]

However you want to look at it.. 5000 or 2000 years of the same thing and living in the 15th century in the 21st century makes a difference.

2014 we need to pull out and pull out completely, no stay behind.. I even go on to say no JCETs, ETC. Let the DoS do their work, they do it so well!!!

Between Iranian and ISI influences and outsiders - TB and AQ this place, not a country will never change from the 1980's to the 6th century. Just as it had taken Alexander the Great nearly three years to subdue Afghanistan but never conquer it. They people just live as they have always.

The warlord goes back to their "old Ways" of ruling. It takes on the tribal lines and the Maliks, elders, and Khans. Yes much better system for here. It has worked for centuries!!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Would your answers be different if the ROE were more to your liking?

[blue02hd]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Would your answers be different if the ROE were more to your liking?

All due respect, how many of our brothers need to be buried before we realize history does in fact repeat itself? The Russians did not have a ROE as restrictive as the current ROE proves to be, history records their failure.

Before you begin to launch nukes at me reference all the differences between now and then, understand my point that we do not have a tangible reachable metric GOAL. The Taliban were routed, we removed the threat. It WAS worth it then.

But like Basenshukai, I have to admit that burying our dead, and holding the grieving for onwards of ten years makes one (me) wish for something more than a political reason or a "HOPE" that the Afghans will stand up for themselves. I'm personally of the mind they will be fine without us. In many ways they are MUCH better negotiators than we are, as their foreign policy is rooted at the village level, and those villages/tribes WILL survive another 1000 years beyond 2012.

I've connected with villages in AFG, and I do have many friends who speak Pashtuun that are more honorable than many so called citizens on this side of the pond, but are any of them worth a Mike Duskin? Art Lilly? Stan Harriman? There are over twenty more names I can personally offer, and I do not presume to be alone with this example. Camp Brown has a wall with a list of all of the names of lost heroes that are much better men than most US citizens will ever know, and it continues to grow. I hope you can see my point, and a point many others are expressing privately these days.

ROE has nothing to do with it.

[PRB]

Well that is 'real' news....like they'll ever be ready by our standards...not in this century.

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Would your answers be different if the ROE were more to your liking?

Not sure if your asking me or just a general Question Sir.

ROE does have a play in it but not much IMO. ROE is crazy since 2010, when a GFC has to call up to his higher to ask permission, which to me is like a 4th grader asking for a permission slip, to blow up a cache because he trained EOD technician want to blow it, but becuase of ROE it is in a compound or next to a compound the GFC must ask hiher. Whihc higher has to call their higher HQ to get that permission slip!!

I agree with what GEN McChrystal stated about killing an insurent. When you kill 2 insurgents you get his brothers, cousins, uncles and anyone that knew him into the Insurgency.

Yes the constant repeat of CivCas incidents due threatens the mission. But when Civillians are dressed the same as the fighters and run and drop their weapons and then claim he is innocent civilians. Yes I get the "other Afghan Math" - for every innocent person killed, ten new enemies are created for the insurgency.

But we are way beyond anything about ROE. ROE don't help. This report is about Astan not being ready. Why because were major Military units, Command, Regional Commands, organizations, NTM-A and/or Whatevers have been lieing to everyone and even themselves. Since 2010 at least 2011 Major units on key bases here should be leading their own ANA and not the ISAF or NATO or SOF Forces. Take the kid off the Tit women!!!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

Not sure if your asking me or just a general Question Sir.

No need to call me Sir, I work for a living.

It is a general question based on a conversation with another QP friend of mine. Not questioning anything previously said, just asking a corollary question. Responses above are most appreciated, I hope I've not strayed from my lane in asking.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Astronomy

Exactly. All we ever needed in Afghanistan were local alliances...which we had in 2001/2002. There was never a necessity for a functioning country or further nation building.

Even under the old monarchy, Afghanistan was more properly a geographic region than a nation. U.S. GWOT goals in Afghanistan could have been met with a permanently decentralized federation and a merely ceremonial rump Kabul government.

I liked the warlord system better. It was a cash and carry, results oriented arrangement that better suited our purpose.

Stay safe.

[Richard]

I seriously doubt if Afghan's security would be ready in 2525 if Buck Rogers was the theater CINC.

Richard

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

No need to call me Sir, I work for a living.

It is a general question based on a conversation with another QP friend of mine. Not questioning anything previously said, just asking a corollary question. Responses above are most appreciated, I hope I've not strayed from my lane in asking.

Hell.. lane?? Never to many forked road around here!! Pick and Choose your lane. As some say.. Firers watch your lane!! LOL

What is really funny for me is the full circle I have seen coming back here every year!!. My wife and family could believe that I have been here every year. Yes most of the time it's overlap from one year to the next. So I have seen how us, SF along with Conventional, have changed over the years. One main factor that has never change, and glad it will not. Is reading stuff about how these new guys or these guys (SF) with Breads or these Special men don't just lay down or these Americans don't run away from the fight they stay and fight, these Americans attack us and don't run.. This is in the American sectors or RCs even. Not the NATO/ISAF Sectors!! YES SF roll into an area and we are attacking INS in there beds, I hate to say it, But the kick in the door and shoot someone in their face works. But on the flip side I have seen SF become MORE Conventional over here while Conventional units have taken on the SOF "look". Conventional units = Non-standard uniforms, Body kit items not all in the same spot, Baseball caps at unit level issue out, Civillian clothing on FOBs, ETC. I know this is way off target for this thread.

But we ISAF, NATO, SOF or whomever you want to point fingers at. Haven't done a good job at many different levels for the state of Afghanistan. Just as in combat, the unit level is were everything should be focused. At least the support towards. But no it's not, many commanders think their command is the focus!! As you moving up the hierarchy, examined regimental and brigade-levels on large to their forward-operating bases isolated from the high headquarters what do you have. "Stove-piping" going on because data directly to decision makers, bypassing established procedures for review or support. Mass emails driving so much here and so many different emails with some many different things that no one has time to read them. I can go on and one. I was shocked my last trip when I work at a main ANA Special OPS base that conduct 70% of their operations, planning, support, logistical, etc. Between the Military, civilians, contractors and ANA no wonder we are were we are now. At every level poeple wrote report that just lied about what was going on. Military were afraid of the promotions, their Jobs, reputation or whatevers. Last person set up this program/thing and it's broken but you can say it because of whatever reason, he is a friend, Generals pawidan, tied to someone, whatever again.

I say you can even say that the whole non-nation building period of Bush era to DoS USAID in so many different places just sucks. I feel mainly just because we dump money into elite of third world countries. USAID economic aid or USG Military aid Good or bad, up to you. I have been told something like this.. The United States basically is ill-equipped within the governmental structures to take on the nation-building mission. Why?? Even when and where that is appropriate; hell look how well we do with natural disasters in the US. Being over here, we do not have any, to put in a military terms, an "operational arm" proficient in nation building in the way that it has a Department of Defense has an "operational arm proficient" in projecting military power. That's my issue with DoS, USAID even DoD, this isn't just from Afghanistan, this go back to Bosian time frame to now. 15 years working in and around USAID and DoS. Yes DoS and USAID have some great people. Just like you any work place, with the good you have the bad. Yes CA typically can do a good job at village level, but even CA suck becasue most don't know civil affairs in or on the nation-building mission sets.

We have been here for ten years. How many studies have been done? Why did this unit do good in this providence or why did the IED for this 12 months go down and now this unit is here and there up 30%? Between Army Call and UMSC MCCLL, where are the reports? Yes dig in the maze of their centers web site. Between each Command coming into country changing the game plan, no wonder Asfghanistan is ready. I really don't think that if we did have a solid game plan it would be different. Most of the problems are with teh Afghans themselves and not really NATO-ISAF or SOF. even if it was set up for success, they would break it up months after NATO-ISAF pulled out. It's in their nature, mind set!!

Richard ... Buck Rogers would be fired within the first month on the job as a General!!!