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Old 06-01-2020, 13:00   #1
tonyz
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ANTIFA...in their own words

ANTIFA...in their own words...who are they, what do they want and why are they violent? Interesting insight below.

The excerpts below are but a taste taken directly from an ANTIFA text for your reading pleasure at link below.

ANTIFA The Anti-Fascist’s Handbook

WHO?

“Yet, the reduction of the term to a mere negation obscures an understanding of anti-fascism as a method of politics, a locus of individual and group self-identification, and a transnational movement that adapted preexisting socialist, anarchist, and communist currents to a sudden need to react to the fascist menace.”

Despite the various shades of interpretation, antifa should not be understood as a single-issue movement. Instead, it is simply one of a number of manifestations of revolutionary socialist politics (broadly construed). Most of the anti-fascists I interviewed also spend a great deal of their time on other forms of politics (e.g., labor organizing, squatting, environmental activism, antiwar mobilization, or migrant solidarity work).

“Some antifa groups are more Marxist while others are more anarchist or antiauthoritarian.“

“Given what anarchists, communists, and socialists knew at the time, there is no reason for them to have devoted any time or attention to the early days of fascism.”

“Anti-fascism is pan-revolutionary left politics applied to fighting the Far Right. Therefore, a number of socialist traditions coexist under this umbrella.”

“When I asked the Dutch anti-fascist Job Polak, he shrugged and smirked saying it was a “non- argument that we never felt we should engage with . . . you have the right to speak but you also have the right to be shut up!”

“Much of the antifa reluctance to engage with this issue stems from their rejection of the classically liberal terms of debate that limit political questions about personal and group expression to the confines of legalistic rights-based discourse. For liberals, the prime question is the status of the free speech rights of fascists. For revolutionary socialist antifa, the prime question is the political struggle against fascism; from their perspective, the rights promoted by capitalist parliamentary government are not inherently worthy of respect.”

“anti-fascists generally agree on the broad strokes of fascism such as patriarchy, white supremacy, authoritarianism, and so on.”

“From an anti-fascist perspective, the question is not about establishing a neutral line beyond which right-wing politics cannot cross, but about entirely transforming society by tearing down oppression in all its forms. For revolutionary socialist anti-fascists, the question to ask is, “Who will win the political struggle?”

“Finally, it’s worth adding that militant anti-fascism is but one facet of a larger revolutionary project. Many antifa groups organize not only against fascism, but aim to combat all forms of oppression such as homophobia, capitalism, patriarchy, and so on.”

“Anti-fascists don’t oppose fascism because it is illiberal in the abstract, but because it promotes white supremacy, hetero-patriarchy, ultra-nationalism, authoritarianism, and genocide.”

“Anti-fascists conduct research on the Far Right online, in person, and sometimes through infiltration; they dox them, push cultural milieux to disown them, pressure bosses to fire them, and demand that venues cancel their shows, conferences, and meetings; they organize educational events, reading groups, trainings, athletic tournaments, and fund-raisers; they write articles, leaflets, and newspapers, drop banners, and make videos; they support refugees and immigrants, defend reproductive rights, and stand up against police brutality. But it is also true that some of them punch Nazis in the face and don’t apologize for it.”

“Leftist organizers often find this task to be much easier than liberal pundits because they are immersed in the mechanisms of movement building. They under- stand that to develop, movements need to hold public events, go on marches, pass out propaganda, publish newspapers, launch campaigns, form alliances and coalitions, and establish public offices, social centers, and bookstores. They must establish attractive social and cultural milieux that give new recruits a sense of belonging and a desire to commit to the struggle. For those who have spent years building this infrastructure and weathering the inevitable ebbs and flows in enthusiasm, commitment, and momentum that movement-building entails, it is obvious that the consistent inability to accomplish some or all of these political tactics would be devastating.”

“The anti-fascist dictum “No platform for fascists” also applies to their posters, graffiti, and other propaganda. Anti- fascists place a great deal of emphasis on controlling public space in all senses, and therefore they devote a significant amount of energy to eliminating any public trace of fascism.”

“While taking rigorous security precautions, the anti-fascists made a number of fake profiles of themselves on the far-right group’s online forums...”

““We could only do what we do and get away with it,” Luís said, “because of that interplay” between mass protest and militant action, because it would have been easy for the German police to shut down more isolated black blocs. Still, Luís was also critical of the mass blockade because in the absence of an anticapitalist critique, they ran the risk of simply echoing the German state’s official anti-fascism.”

“Having your city, or at least parts of it, on your side means you have eyes on workplaces, colleges, or neighborhoods beyond your immediate circles. If someone is putting up homophobic stickers in one area, someone who lives there will send your group an e-mail. If someone’s classmate has started trying to recruit for a “white student union,” you will hear about it. When it comes time to call a neo-Nazi’s boss to ask that he be fired, more people will call if they support the work your group does. If one of your mem- bers is arrested or hospitalized, more people will donate.”

“The exceptional spectacle of anti-fascist organizers confronting Nazis is not enough to stem the tide of Trumpism.”

“An anti-fascist outlook has no tolerance for “intolerance.” It will not “agree to disagree.” To those who argue that this would make us no better than Nazis, we must point out that our critique is not against violence, incivility, discrimination, or disrupting speeches in the abstract, but against those who do so in the service of white supremacy, hetero-patriarchy, class oppression, and genocide. The point here is not tactics; it is politics.”

“Our goal should be that in twenty years those who voted for Trump are too uncomfortable to share that fact in public. We may not always be able to change someone’s beliefs, but we sure as hell can make it politically, socially, economically, and sometimes physically costly to articulate them.”

“Anti-fascists must not only concern themselves with those who organize on behalf of white supremacy and those who casually parrot racist slogans, but also those who never say anything at all. Fascist regimes thrive on widespread support, or at least consent, by cultivating pride in, and fear of the loss of, a variety of identities, privileges, and traditions. One of the most important in the context of the resurgent Far Right in the United States is whiteness.”

“...Aimé Césaire rightly concluded that “Europe is indefensible.” So too must we add that, as a modern identity forged through slavery and class rule, whiteness is indefensible.”

“The only long-term solution to the fascist menace is to undermine its pillars of strength in society grounded not only in white supremacy but also in ableism, heteronormativity, patriarchy, nationalism, transphobia, class rule, and many others. This long-term goal points to the tensions that exist in defining anti-fascism, because at a certain point destroying fascism is really about promoting a revolutionary socialist alternative (in my opinion one that is antiauthoritarian and nonhierarchical) to a world of crisis, poverty, famine, and war that breeds fascist reaction.”

“On its own, militant anti-fascism is necessary but not sufficient to build a new world in the shell of the old.”

WHY VIOLENCE?

“On the night of Yiannopoulos’s speech, shortly before it was scheduled to begin, black-clad anti-fascists arrived at the larger ongoing demonstration and started to pull down police barricades, launch fireworks, smash windows, and spray-paint graffiti, causing what was later estimated to be $100,000 worth of damage. And what weeks of advocacy, argumentation, and public dialogue could not accomplish was instead achieved in about fifteen minutes, as the police quickly announced the cancellation of the event, citing security concerns.”

“In truth, violence represents a small though vital sliver of anti-fascist activity.”

https://libcom.org/files/Antifa,%20T...20Handbook.pdf
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Old 06-01-2020, 13:31   #2
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Lends credence to the old axiom that 'when someone shows you who they are - believe them'
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Old 06-01-2020, 15:49   #3
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...ANTIFA...they admittedly seek to forcibly suppress all opposition and criticism...using propaganda, slogans, violence, etc., etc., oh, the irony.

ETA: in a more traditional sense ANTIFA appear the useful idiots to a Putin or a Xi Jinping type...who WILL get their “minds right” after the dust settles.
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Old 06-01-2020, 16:58   #4
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Just heard the President talk about the violence. One of the best speeches he has given. Hopefully will entice local leaders to grab their nut sacks.




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Old 06-01-2020, 18:34   #5
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What we are up against (dropped at a protest site).
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Old 06-01-2020, 18:36   #6
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Just heard the President talk about the violence. One of the best speeches he has given. Hopefully will entice local leaders to grab their nut sacks.




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Democrats with nut sacks. What'll they come up with next?
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Old 06-01-2020, 18:40   #7
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This may be a bit rambling to some, to those that lived it will be very familiar.

X imeo (in my experience only) I tired of the phony late ‘60’s, 67-70. It was a period of great unrest with no direction, social ambiguity, with no goals, other than to end a war, and resolve race issues, which once you got through the weed, the conversation was left to the adults.

This is no different, 20 somethings, but unlike the late 60”s, this round of insurrection is grounded in that last failed attempt to overthrow democracy. Those organization that supported the 60’s chaos are headed for the grave, they want a legacy, the difference between then and now, is the brutal force exhibited. They want to exact a price and indoctrinate the next generation of disenfranchised with a blood oath, whereas the Huey Newtons, Chistoms where right in your face. Antifa, the ultimate UW.

That said, this has all the hallmarks of domestic foreign actors in the mix. As a lone voice in the woods, this may nor resonate, but the torching of St. Johns, is the very same context as Notre Dame in Paris. Same actors, tell me I’m on drugs, you are in denial.

This is the most subversive time in our collective history, as much as the rule of law must be followed, it must be ignored to preserve our cultural and our social norms. The question is who is willing and when to act.
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Old 06-01-2020, 19:00   #8
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This may be a bit rambling to some, to those that lived it will be very familiar.

X imeo (in my experience only) I tired of the phony late ‘60’s, 67-70. It was a period of great unrest with no direction, social ambiguity, with no goals, other than to end a war, and resolve race issues, which once you got through the weed, the conversation was left to the adults.

This is no different, 20 somethings, but unlike the late 60”s, this round of insurrection is grounded in that last failed attempt to overthrow democracy. Those organization that supported the 60’s chaos are headed for the grave, they want a legacy, the difference between then and now, is the brutal force exhibited. They want to exact a price and indoctrinate the next generation of disenfranchised with a blood oath, whereas the Huey Newtons, Chistoms where right in your face. Antifa, the ultimate UW.

That said, this has all the hallmarks of domestic foreign actors in the mix. As a lone voice in the woods, this may nor resonate, but the torching of St. Johns, is the very same context as Notre Dame in Paris. Same actors, tell me I’m on drugs, you are in denial.

This is the most subversive time in our collective history, as much as the rule of law must be followed, it must be ignored to preserve our cultural and our social norms. The question is who is willing and when to act.
I’m not that old but old enough to remember my youth growing up in L.A. (Cali) late 60’s and throughout the 70’s. We had plenty of “domestic terrorism” and bad actors then. Some of those I believe ran for office and are still there basking in the twilight glow of this current “scorched earth” policy to regain power and control; lost in the 2016 election of DJT (that just wasn’t supposed to happen!)

When people start robbing banks again with arms (no one can legally purchase or own) to fund their crusade against the man, I might begin to get concerned. Until then bring marshmallows, chocolate and grams and a six-pack or two and enjoy the fireworks.

The next four years will determine if the Republic has been saved or lost forever. Then I hope the shooting starts if it’s not saved.
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Old 06-01-2020, 19:14   #9
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ODNT, love you, be ready. You may be underestimating the opposition. That said, I pray, I'm wrong and completely off base.
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Old 06-01-2020, 19:21   #10
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ODNT, love you, be ready. You may be underestimating the opposition. That said, I pray, I'm wrong and completely off base.
I pray we are all wrong and the Republic will survive. Until then my powder is dry and my hatchet scoured.

Standing by...and watching with disgust what’s happening.
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Old 06-01-2020, 21:13   #11
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How do we define these activities?

The Department of Defense defines it as "the unlawful use of violence or threat of violence to instill fear and coerce governments or societies. Terrorism is often motivated by religious, political, or other ideological beliefs and committed in the pursuit of goals that are usually political."

How is this not exactly what they are trying to do?

TR
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Old 06-01-2020, 22:04   #12
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TR, just a lot easier to declare them ‘enemy of the state’ because the Constitution is pretty clear on that terminology and we all, most of us in second careers too, still take an oath to defend the nation against “all enemies both foreign and domestic.”

Arson is illegal
Violence (battery) against others is illegal
Unlawful assembly is illegal
Breaking and entering is illegal
Trespassing on private property is illegal
Theft is illegal...

The list of transgressions and unlawful activities go on and on.

These states and cities need to set up and begin using paid for by taxpayer funded stadiums and sports complexes and use them to process these lawbreakers. Bring them in by the bus load, photograph, fingerprint, gather PII and release those that cooperated, lock up those who resist or won’t ID themselves and provide contact information.

Those who associate and identify as Antifa, file charges of past transgressions and build a laundry list of actionable criminal behaviors. I heard today that RICO statutes may apply to Antifa’s leadership.
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Old 06-01-2020, 22:11   #13
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Penn and ODNT, there is no difference between the '60s radicals and now because the '60s radicals are in seats of power. Pelosi, Kerry, Hillary, Boxer, Feinstein, Jerry Brown, Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, et al, where there at the beginning and are now radicalis emeriti, or soon to be, of the Left. This is their last gasp. They've made tremendous headway in 50 years but failed at the one necessary achievement to overthrow the U.S., abolishing the Second Amendment. And here we are.
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:05   #14
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Penn and ODNT, there is no difference between the '60s radicals and now because the '60s radicals are in seats of power. Pelosi, Kerry, Hillary, Boxer, Feinstein, Jerry Brown, Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, et al, where there at the beginning and are now radicalis emeriti, or soon to be, of the Left. This is their last gasp. They've made tremendous headway in 50 years but failed at the one necessary achievement to overthrow the U.S., abolishing the Second Amendment. And here we are.
I lost sight of that belief but I used to tell myself that the radical youth of the 60s were being voted in to positions of power...Killery Hlinton and her ilk.

Thanks for the the reminder.
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:28   #15
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These states and cities need to set up and begin using paid for by taxpayer funded stadiums and sports complexes and use them to process these lawbreakers. Bring them in by the bus load, photograph, fingerprint, gather PII and release those that cooperated, lock up those who resist or won’t ID themselves and provide contact information.
Many States and cities believe the solutions to these type of problems are creating (bureaucracy) commissions to fight institutionalized racism and hire more minority police officers.


Seems like we have been down this road before in the recent past......

https://www.governing.com/topics/pub...oversight.html

https://www.heritage.org/report/the-...tect-americans
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