Egyptian protesters scale US Embassy wall in Cairo

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Pete

...............

Don't sound too "spontaneous" to me......

Just wait till Friday.

Well, it's Friday and it seems the little beavers are having fun all over the middle east - From Tunisia to Kashmir.

Imams must have had some really good sermons.

[Stras]

I think we should use Equal Oppurtunity to the full measure.

one for one exchange on the burning of flags, religious materials (bibles, Korans, etc) and embassies.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Stras

I think we should use Equal Oppurtunity to the full measure.

one for one exchange on the burning of flags, religious materials (bibles, Korans, etc) and embassies.

What's the KFC worth?

Maybe it was the sight of all those legs, thighs and breasts that got the crowd fired up?

[Stras]

Originally Posted by Pete

What's the KFC worth?

Maybe it was the sight of all those legs, thighs and breasts that got the crowd fired up?

let's see... current exchange rate....

One KFC = 2 lean to structures, 55 goats (male), 35 sheep (male), 25 gallons of Diesel (for the generator power supply), and 15 employees...

[Hand]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

How is your comment consistent with a post you made on 28 June 2012?

In that post, you agreed Robert Burke's argument that "they" were responsible for producing works of culture that contributed to the erosion of a certain way of life in America.

If it is all right to argue that works of mass popular culture are responsible for motivating one set of behaviors that you consider maladaptive, why is it not okay for others to use that same logic?

Sigaba, you make a startling good point and I have carefully mulled over both my intent for posting the Robert Burke piece, its message, my statement on this thread which you reference and their similarities and differences. Here is my carefully considered response.

The 'they' in Burke's piece is representative of people and ideals who have influenced the erosion of core American values, as you reiterated here. The 'they' as touted by the comments in the article I referenced here, is a single person, and that his 'work' is what has amounted to a commercial.

The 'they' in Burke's piece help fill in the gap left when you look at the values of previous decades, compare them to the current generation and ask, how did we get here from there? The 'they' in the article's comments I referenced is being used as the motivation for destructive and murderous acts all over the world.

If it is 'right' for them (muslims) to say "we are offended, we will kill Christians because of a commercial", then I don't understand why the natural response is for people to say "oh gosh, lets not offend them, lets squash the First Amendment, don't make the commercial, don't make fun of mohammed". Why is our natural response not "Ok, kill Christians and we'll kill muslims".

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...281634,00.html


BMT

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by BMT

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...281634,00.html


BMT

The Sinai has always had their "groups" and Anti-American "people". Never was really a safe place when I was there.

[Cobwebs]

Isn't it about now when our glorious leader apologizes to our Arab brothers again for all of our American mistakes of the past and ask for forgiveness?

[ScubaNinja]

I just watched the ‘Muhhamed movie’ that has caused all the outrage in the Middle East. What a bizzare movie to cause such a stir. For years my liberal college professors and what I thought was my own better judgment had me convinced that the majority of Muslims don’t hate us for who we are, and are ways of life are not naturally opposed to one another. I thought there was just ill will towards the US and the West due to military interventions, and of course our support of the state of Israel. I thought that at the end of the day that they are just like us. While they might have strong feelings toward their religion the majority are no more zealous or extreme than people of other religions. I thought they wanted peace, democracy, and freedom.
This chain of events has been extremely telling and I think will prove to be ominous. The attacks that killed the four Americans in Libya seem to have been carried out by an extreme militant group that blended into a more peaceful protest of the movie. While the majority of people are not currently committing violence at that level, what are most alarming to me are the masses of protests about the movie across the entire Middle East. There have been many protests all across the region burning our flags, threatening our embassies with thousands calling for the arrest of, the producer of the movie, Sam Bacile (or whatever his real name is). This shows that the values of the majority of Muslims are indeed diametrically opposed with ours. They are quite clearly filled with hatred because of a silly, imbecilic movie. There is no doubt this movie was made with very poor taste. It is quite disrespectful. The maker of this movie is a moron. Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day. Furthermore, there will never be a day that violence over a movie will be justified in my mind. Our belief in freedom of speech can’t co-exist with their dogmatic furor for their religion. It is no wonder the Arab Spring has failed to produce any real democracies it is truly a foreign unobtainable concept to them. Without freedom of speech you can’t have democracy.
The Arab spring shows that their people are hungry for change, they long for the former greatness of the Muslim empire. But what kind of change will that be? When the Arab Spring first started occurring I was optimistic that they truly wanted democracy, and they desperately needed to throw off the shackles of their dictators. Now, all that angry energy is being directed towards our embassies over a movie. They are fired up that’s for sure, but I now think they are confused as to where to go from here. This chain of events shows that all of their negative energy can and is being directed towards us. Extreme militant groups constantly look to fill power vaccums that are currently being created. This is not a matter of them just hating our government for their foreign policy. This is truly a clash of cultures. As time goes on Samuel Huntington’s theory of an emerging multi-polar world seems to be coming true.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the U.S. and subsequently myself will be fighting another war there in the future. I just hope I will have completed my training and will have learned Arabic in time to be of some use… At the very least there is much work to be done there. I hope for peace, and truly want peace and democracy for their people, but it is clear that peace will be hard fought for.
As a side note I would like to declare that I am a proud atheist, and respect everyone’s religious beliefs until those beliefs turn violent.

[Dozer523]

Scoobie,

This is your eleventh post and your fifth thread.
That's excessive thread initiation. (Digital diarrhea)
This subject is already being addressed here >> http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=39486 and the conversation is evolving.

The purpose of PS is to exchange ideas with one another. Your zealous thread starting looks like you'd rather hear your own voice.

A little advice, READ the new posts
SEARCH your possible threads key word (in this case the producer’s name)
PREVIEW your submission BEFORE
SUBMIT REPLY.

(Some even compose word documents to take advantage of the editing tools)

[Dozer523]

Scoobie, This belongs here no need to begin a new thread,

Originally Posted by ScubaNinja

I just watched the ‘Muhhamed movie’ that has caused all the outrage in the Middle East. What a bizzare movie to cause such a stir. It's not a movie For years my liberal college professors and what I thought was my own better judgment fooled by th libral elite? Get in line., had me convinced that the majority of Muslims don’t hate us for who we are, and are ways of life are not naturally opposed to one another. I thought there was just ill will towards the US and the West due to military interventions, and of course our support of the state of Israel. I thought that at the end of the day that they are just like us. While they might have strong feelings toward their religion the majority are no more zealous or extreme than people of other religions. I thought they wanted peace, democracy, and freedom. That seems to be the leftist party line.
This chain of events has been extremely telling and I think will prove to be ominous. The attacks that killed the four Americans in Libya seem to have been carried out by an extreme militant group that blended into a more peaceful protest of the movie. While the majority of people are not currently committing violence at that level, what are most alarming to me are the masses of protests about the movie across the entire Middle East. There have been many protests all across the region burning our flags, threatening our embassies with thousands calling for the arrest of, the producer of the movie, Sam Bacile (or whatever his real name is). This shows that the values of the majority of Muslims are indeed diametrically opposed with ours.
We're not diametrically opposed to silly, imbecilic, deliberately provocative, profit motivated hate speech that is directly linked to the murder of our diplomats? They are quite clearly filled with hatred because of a silly, imbecilic movie. There is no doubt this movie was made with very poor taste. So? This is America! We can say whatever we want. It is quite disrespectful. So? This is America! The maker of this movie is a moron. So? This is America! Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day. Even when it gets people killed? The shouting "Fire" movie house arguement goes here Furthermore, there will never be a day that violence over a movie will be justified in my mind. "Nonetheless, it is a movie and as an American I will support freedom of speech any day."Our belief in freedom of speech can’t co-exist with their dogmatic furor for their religion. Doesn't seem to be doing real well with your logic model, either It is no wonder the Arab Spring has failed to produce any real democracies it is truly a foreign unobtainable concept to them. Without freedom of speech you can’t have democracy. The "Arab Spring" was six months ago, but your right it doesn't seem to be producing American style democracies. But are you sure democracy was the goal or just the ousting of repressive governments? The Arab spring shows that their people are hungry for change, they long for the former greatness of the Muslim empire. But what kind of change will that be? When the Arab Spring first started occurring I was optimistic that they truly wanted democracy, and they desperately needed to throw off the shackles of their dictators. Yeah?Now, all that angry energy is being directed towards our embassies over a movie. So? They are fired up that’s for sure, but I now think they are confused as to where to go from here. Yup.This chain of events shows that all of their negative energy can and is being directed towards us. Extreme militant groups constantly look to fill power vaccums that are currently being created. Yup This is not a matter of them just hating our government for their foreign policy. This is truly a clash of cultures. As time goes on Samuel Huntington’s theory of an emerging multi-polar world seems to be coming true.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the U.S. and subsequently myself will be fighting another war there in the future. It's what we do. But you can be comforted thatyou are defending Sam Bacile constitutional right to be a hate mongering, profit mitivated moron I just hope I will have completed my training and will have learned Arabic in time to be of some use… Me too At the very least there is much work to be done there. I hope for peace, Me tooand truly want peace and democracy for their people, Not me. Well the peace part, yeah. I don't have a right to dictate what form of government they chose but I hope it is a reasonable onebut it is clear that peace will be hard fought for. Yup
As a side note I would like to declare that I am a proud atheist, and respect everyone’s religious beliefs until those beliefs turn violent. So you really don't know much about religion at all.

YGTBSM

[Pete]

So Dozer is it your position that Islam should be protected from bad "free speech" while other religions are fair game?

If so, why?

Who should decide what is bad or good speech? CAIR?

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Pete

So Dozer is it your position that Islam should be protected from bad "free speech" while other religions are fair game?
If so, why?
Who should decide what is bad or good speech? CAIR?

Pete, I think everyone deserves protection from "fighting words" and "hate speech". This "movie"is not an expression of free speech it is propaganda. It's purpose is to incite not illuminate, not amuse, nor educate.

If one has a right to say anything doesn't it follow another has a right not to hear it?
And if so, in our modern communication sdystem, how does one avail themselves of the right not to hear?
Especially when the speaker is shouting in thier face?

On those occassions when my wife (My Reason For Living) and I get into an arguement sometimes I start to yell.
MRFL will ask, "Why are you shouting." My reply is, "If I can't make you listen, I can make sure you hear."

That's not a very good reason. I'm gonna changs that. Thanks, Pete


This is a pretty good artical. Unable to link article, but worth a google. Try going with the title.

Here's a snip

Why is the Muslim World So Easily Offended?
If Islam’s rise was spectacular, its fall was swift and unsparing. This is the world that the great historian Bernard Lewis explored in his 2002 book “What Went Wrong?” The blessing of God, seen at work in the ascent of the Muslims, now appeared to desert them. The ruling caliphate, with its base in Baghdad, was torn asunder by a Mongol invasion in the 13th century. Soldiers of fortune from the Turkic Steppes sacked cities and left a legacy of military seizures of power that is still the bane of the Arabs. Little remained of their philosophy and literature, and after the Ottoman Turks overran Arab countries to their south in the 16th century, the Arabs seemed to exit history; they were now subjects of others.
The coming of the West to their world brought superior military, administrative and intellectual achievement into their midst — and the outsiders were unsparing in their judgments. They belittled the military prowess of the Arabs, and they were scandalized by the traditional treatment of women and the separation of the sexes that crippled Arab society.
Even as Arabs insist that their defects were inflicted on them by outsiders, they know their weaknesses. Younger Arabs today can be brittle and proud about their culture, yet deeply ashamed of what they see around them. They know that more than 300 million Arabs have fallen to economic stagnation and cultural decline. They know that the standing of Arab states along the measures that matter — political freedom, status of women, economic growth — is low. In the privacy of their own language, in daily chatter on the street, on blogs and in the media, and in works of art and fiction, they probe endlessly what befell them.
But woe to the outsider who ventures onto that explosive terrain. The assumption is that Westerners bear Arabs malice, that Western judgments are always slanted and cruel.

Fouad Ajami, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, is the author of “The Syrian Rebellion.”

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

Pete, I think everyone deserves protection from "fighting words" and "hate speech". This "movie"is not an expression of free speech it is propaganda. It's purpose is to incite not illuminate, not amuse, nor educate.

So the artist who made Piss Christ should be put to death?

Right now those who decide just what is "fighting words" or "hate speech" seem to have a vary narrow view of just who is doing it.

Seems the left and Islam are protected while everyone else is fair game.

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Pete

So the artist who made Piss Christ should be put to death?

Right now those who decide just what is "fighting words" or "hate speech" seem to have a vary narrow view of just who is doing it.

Seems the left and Islam are protected while everyone else is fair game.

I'm a Catholic and i work at my faith. I remember that "art" and i was very offended I didn't advocate that person's death but if he was a fellow Catholic i would have been pleased to see him excommunicated.
Thinking of that offensive "work" now i am expanding my ire audience to include the jerk reporters who "just had to bring this to the world's and my attention. How could anyone not realize the purpose of piss ... was anything but meant to offend? So, along my thinking why was i forced to hear what i wouldn't listen to? And since my rights are infringed, my life is invaded, why am i denied recourse?