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Old 02-10-2011, 09:43   #16
mark46th
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Hope they get him the hell out of there...
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Old 02-10-2011, 16:14   #17
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
This is not a good thing here.

Hate to see where this will go. Not much here too, which is good.
There's quite a bit of "news" on the web unfortunately. There is a story in the UK Telegraph by Rob Crilly that isn't good. I will not post it here.
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Old 02-10-2011, 19:43   #18
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There's quite a bit of "news" on the web unfortunately. There is a story in the UK Telegraph by Rob Crilly that isn't good. I will not post it here.
Yeah I saw that one earlier today.. Whole thing is a joke. When I was there you had to really watch you foot placement.. Land mines everywhere... Pun intended.

As Far as working there.. Everyone is told their set of rules based off their job. BLUF - DSS and a select few are the only People that carry in Pakistan. Not a nice rule, but that is theirs. I not think this guy had a carry permit. But as TR said.. better than being Dead. I don't think he followed the set SOP for Country and/or his City.

It has been a long time since this happen so I have my assumptions.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:14   #19
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bad situation all around

Police report has been released...

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ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN - A Pakistani police report says a U.S. Embassy official jailed in the killing of two Pakistani men is "guilty" of murder, citing investigators' findings that the official shot each victim five times, including in their backs, and lied to police about how he arrived at the scene.
...
The five-page report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, spells out law enforcement authorities' case against the official, Raymond Davis, whom the police chief in the city of Lahore two days ago accused of "cold-blooded murder." The former Army Special Forces soldier has said that he fired in self-defense as the men tried to rob him.

The report says that although the men were armed, no witnesses saw them point weapons at Davis. The top U.S. official in Lahore, Carmela Conroy, disputed that Friday, saying police did not consider what she deemed witness accounts of the stickup, which were aired on Pakistani television in the days after the shooting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021301279.html

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Old 02-14-2011, 17:35   #20
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I've got a bad feeling that this guys going to get screwed.............. I just don't trust Obama's people to fight for his release......... I just don't trust him fighting to get this guy out,I'm sorry but I think he'll let just let the Packie's try him...... I hope I'm wrong...........

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Old 02-14-2011, 17:38   #21
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As it stands from what I understand, I don't see where I would have done any differently than Davis did.
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Old 02-14-2011, 18:13   #22
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just to be sure

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As it stands from what I understand, I don't see where I would have done any differently than Davis did.
are you privy to any additional information, or are you referring to the scenario of you sitting at a traffic light and a motorcycle pulling up with armed men on it?
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Old 02-14-2011, 18:39   #23
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are you privy to any additional information, or are you referring to the scenario of you sitting at a traffic light and a motorcycle pulling up with armed men on it?
I'm not privy to anything.

I just dislike the thought of being robbed.
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Old 02-14-2011, 18:50   #24
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We need to make them an offer they cannot refuse. Arms deals to India?
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Old 02-14-2011, 19:21   #25
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http://www.economist.com/node/18073379

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Loss and risk management
A new setback in the accident-prone alliance between Pakistan and America
Banyan

Feb 3rd 2011 | from PRINT EDITION

*
*

CONSPIRACIES are popular in Pakistan, especially those involving America. When an American, Raymond Davis, was arrested for murder after shooting two people on January 27th in traffic in the city of Lahore, many Pakistanis at once suspected the worst. The more that has leaked out about the case, the more their suspicions have seemed justified, and the more serious the damage to a “strategic partnership” vital to both countries. It will be mended—it always is, somehow—but not quickly, and not by Mr Davis’s early release.

The two countries have some common ground about what happened. Mr Davis shot two men on a motorcycle who approached his car stuck at a traffic light. Another motorcyclist was accidentally killed by a car rushing to Mr Davis’s assistance. America says Mr Davis is a diplomat, claims immunity for him and demands he be freed at once. It has not identified, let alone surrendered, the driver of the other car. Mr Davis has told police that he acted in self-defence when the men, who he thought were robbers, pulled out guns.

The version Pakistanis have pieced together from press reports, whispers from officials and frenzied chat-show speculation is more exciting.Mr Davis was not on a list of diplomatic personnel in Pakistan submitted by the American embassy to Pakistan’s foreign ministry on January 25th. In Lahore he had been to lunch with unnamed contacts in a well-known restaurant. He carried a Glock pistol and M16 bullets with hollow points. He shot one man once in the front and three times in the back. The other took eight bullets, mostly in the chest.

Rather than flee, Mr Davis stayed to photograph the dead men. His car was equipped with a video camera and radio equipment. American media have reported that Mr Davis is associated with a Florida-based outfit called Hyperion Protective Consultants (“your first choice in loss and risk management”). Some guess he is a CIA agent, who had been dining with informants or terrorist contacts, and the meeting went badly wrong. The men may have been muggers. But Pakistanis are outraged—they are already angry at attacks by unmanned American aircraft on targets in their country. Shireen Mazari of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf, the party of Imran Khan, a former cricketer, thunders that America is “so used to killing Pakistanis and getting away with it.”

American officials have reportedly approached the families of those killed in Lahore to offer money in the hope they would ask for the charges against Mr Davis to be dropped. Asked about this on a television chat show, two relations said they would not take the money. But, they said, they might be swayed if America were to free Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani neuroscientist sentenced to 86 years in an American jail after trying to shoot soldiers and FBI agents while under interrogation in Afghanistan.

The inevitable anti-American protests Mr Davis has provoked have partially merged with another campaign: to uphold Pakistan’s harsh law against blasphemy. America and others have urged Pakistan to repeal or amend the law, which provides for the death penalty against blasphemers on very flimsy evidence. The Islamist right has rallied against any change, which is not on the cards—especially since the assassination last month of Salman Taseer, governor of Punjab province, for his support of reform.

The belief that America is callous about Pakistani lives and hostile towards Islam is the result of five decades of resentment. Pakistan has felt let down by America’s failure to back it in its wars against India, and abandoned when, after helping Pakistan fuel the anti-Soviet resistance in Afghanistan in the 1980s, America turned its attention elsewhere. America’s recent courtship of India and the favours it has bestowed on it have renewed Pakistanis’ sense of betrayal. Religious parties depicted the first Gulf war and the invasion of Iraq as attacks on Islam. Pakistani Pushtuns see the war in Afghanistan as being waged against ethnic, as well as religious, brothers.

Ijaz Gilani, of Gallup Pakistan, a pollster, says surveys show that distrust of America is “almost a national consensus”. This makes it hard for Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, to do other than tell America that the Davis case must be handled by the courts. To intervene might trigger an outpouring of anger. Some of Mr Zardari’s opponents look at Egypt and Tunisia and see fellow Muslims taking to the streets to oust American-backed leaders. They ponder getting rid of their own unpopular president.

Yet Mr Zardari needs the United States more than ever. Pakistan is still grappling with the effects of last year’s floods, the country’s worst ever, affecting 20m people. Public finances are in a mess and the IMF, which has yet to disburse $3.5 billion of its 2008 bail-out, was in Islamabad this week to urge politically tricky fiscal reform. America is both by far the biggest donor to flood relief and the biggest source of other bilateral aid.

With strategic partners like these…

It also helps bankroll an army stretched by flood-relief work, continued vigilance on the eastern border with India and fighting with Islamist extremists in the tribal areas in the north-west. Some 1.2m people remain displaced by that conflict. An insurgency simmers in Balochistan. Across the country, religious and sectarian violence claims lives daily.

Yet America needs Pakistan as much. It continues to press the army to campaign in North Waziristan, one of the tribal areas, against militants using it as a base for operations in Afghanistan. And the worst fear haunting the West in Afghanistan is that the war will end not just in defeat in that benighted land of 30m people, but also in the radicalisation of Pakistan, with 190m and a nuclear arsenal said to be approaching 100 warheads. Much as they dislike it, America and Pakistan are stuck with each other.
I'm afraid Big Teddy's right, but I don't think it's just Obama- no US president would be able to get this guy out of Pakistan right now. With troops in Afghanistan, the last thing we need is an anti-US uprising in Pakistan. It looks like the best chance to get this thing resolved is for a little horse-trading to take place to get the support of the families and make this look like a victory for Pakistan as a country.

Last edited by silentreader; 02-14-2011 at 22:27.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:09   #26
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Why Send this Buffoon?!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/...ained_american

LAHORE, Pakistan – U.S. Sen. John Kerry promised the Pakistani people Tuesday that a jailed U.S. embassy worker will be subjected to a U.S. criminal investigation if he is released by the Pakistani government.

Kerry also expressed regret for the deaths of two Pakistani men in an apparent attempt to smooth over relations with the important ally in the war against extremists and al-Qaeda while still insisting that the American needs to be released.

Raymond Allen Davis has been held by Pakistani authorities since he fatally shot two Pakistanis in the eastern city of Lahore on Jan. 27, and his case has become a bitter point of contention between Washington and Islamabad, whose relationship is considered key to ending the war in Afghanistan.

U.S. officials have said Davis shot in self-defense when two armed men on a motorcycle tried to rob him. Pakistani police officials have said they plan to try him for murder, arguing that while the Pakistanis did have a loaded gun, there was no round in the chamber, and saying Davis shot one man as he was trying to flee.

Regardless of guilt, the U.S. says the detention of Davis, a former Special Forces soldier and an embassy worker, is illegal under international agreements covering diplomats. U.S. officials have threatened to withhold billions of dollars in aid to Pakistan unless Davis is freed.

A chorus of American officials have called for his release on the grounds of diplomatic immunity, including President Barack Obama on Tuesday.

Kerry took a softer approach, saying that international law should not be abandoned, but also pledging that Davis would be fully investigated.

"It is customary in an incident like this for our government to conduct a criminal investigation. That is our law. And I can give you the full assurance of our government today that that will take place," Kerry told reporters in the eastern city of Lahore. "So there is no such thing as a suggestion that something is out of law or that America thinks somehow we're not subject to the law."

Kerry spoke on a last-minute trip to Pakistan to try to heal relations over the case. He emphasized his sorrow over the incident and the deaths of the two men.

"I want to come here today to express our deepest regret for this tragic event and to express the sorrow of the American people for the loss of life that has taken place," he said.

His visit came as the Pakistani government appeared to be giving an opening for Davis' release through the courts.

A Pakistani federal government official told The Associated Press on Tuesday that after reviewing the matter, most experts in Pakistan's legal and foreign offices believe Davis is immune from prosecution. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the subject's sensitivity.

Pakistani government officials had avoided a definitive stand on Davis' legal status in the face of popular anger over the shootout. Thousands have rallied against Davis, demanding he be hanged, while the Taliban have threatened attacks against any Pakistani official involved in freeing the 36-year-old Virginia native.

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Old 02-16-2011, 07:15   #27
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Why Send this Buffoon?!
He's a senior Senator, former Presidential candidate, known to not be a 'hawk' militarilarly, a recognizable international face and senior politician who has distanced himself from the current conflicts and the former administration, less controversial and inflammatory than many others who could have been sent on this mission.

And so it goes...

Richard
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:18   #28
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Originally Posted by Richard View Post
He's a senior Senator, former Presidential candidate, known to not be a 'hawk' militarilarly, a recognizable international face and senior politician who has distanced himself from the current conflicts and the former administration, less controversial and inflammatory than many others who could have been sent on this mission.

And so it goes...

Richard

Could be. Could also be that his wife gave him a big enough allowance this week to bribe the Pakis.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:41   #29
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Could be. Could also be that his wife gave him a big enough allowance this week to bribe the Pakis.

Are you implying that their administration may be corrupt?.............

Big Teddy
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Old 02-16-2011, 20:03   #30
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Are you implying that their administration may be corrupt?.............

Big Teddy
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02...est=latestnews

They like qisas:, BT:


Ahead of the meeting with Kerry, the prime minister raised the possibility of another solution to the debacle: having the U.S. compensate the families of the dead Pakistanis in lieu of sending Davis to prison. Such a system, known as "qisas," is used in Islamic law and accepted in Pakistan. However, at least some of the dead men's relatives have rejected the idea
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