08-02-2018, 21:42
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#1
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,947
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How would you translate this?
What would be an idiomatic English version of this? "Live winning or die killing" doesn't quite sound right to me.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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08-03-2018, 03:17
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#2
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
What would be an idiomatic English version of this? "Live winning or die killing" doesn't quite sound right to me.
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never mind... my Spanish sucks...lol
Last edited by (1VB)compforce; 08-03-2018 at 03:24.
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(1VB)compforce is offline
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08-03-2018, 04:48
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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Ganar is to win or earn - ‘win the lottery’ ‘win soccer game’
Vencer is to win a fight, overcome a difficult problem, or conquer.
I would translate it as: live overcoming or die trying (fighting)
It is idiomatic.
__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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08-03-2018, 11:12
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#4
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Area Commander
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"Give me a Corona with a lime, I need to overcome my thirstiness"....... 
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Last edited by rsdengler; 08-03-2018 at 11:43.
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rsdengler is offline
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08-03-2018, 13:43
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#5
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
Ganar is to win or earn - ‘win the lottery’ ‘win soccer game’
Vencer is to win a fight, overcome a difficult problem, or conquer.
I would translate it as: live overcoming or die trying (fighting)
It is idiomatic.
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Ganar is related to gagner in French and ultimately "gain" in English (itself from Middle French). The French 1er RPIMa, descended from the French SAS of WW2, uses the motto "Qui ose, gagne" as a translation of "Who dares, wins". We had a discussion many years ago on Socnet about how the English "win" had also lost much of its broader meaning and become limited to winning a prize or a game when discussing why "Medal of Honor winner" no longer sounded like an appropriate phrase.
The Spanish phrase here seems similar to the Latin motto "aut vincere aut mori", "either to conquer/vanquish, or to die". But the "morir matando" seem to add the notion of not just dying, but going down fighting.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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08-03-2018, 14:03
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
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"Live Defeating or Die Killing" If you use Latin instead of Spanish.
(agreed, it's way open to interpretation).
Last edited by SouthernDZ; 08-03-2018 at 14:10.
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SouthernDZ is offline
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08-05-2018, 06:14
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
Ganar is related to gagner in French and ultimately "gain" in English (itself from Middle French). The French 1er RPIMa, descended from the French SAS of WW2, uses the motto "Qui ose, gagne" as a translation of "Who dares, wins". We had a discussion many years ago on Socnet about how the English "win" had also lost much of its broader meaning and become limited to winning a prize or a game when discussing why "Medal of Honor winner" no longer sounded like an appropriate phrase.
The Spanish phrase here seems similar to the Latin motto "aut vincere aut mori", "either to conquer/vanquish, or to die". But the "morir matando" seem to add the notion of not just dying, but going down fighting.
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This is very much where I was trying to go. My fingers are never able to keep up with what I’m thinking.
What I failed to explain was that ganar means to win, but also to earn like pay. Yo gané ayer...... I got paid yesterday. Los Houston Astros ganaron El Serie del Mundo... The Houston Astros won The World Series.
I added that to show that ganar and vencer were different form of “win”
You could also equivocate it to the phrase from Shawshank Redemption, “Get busy livin’ or get busy dyin.”
Southern’s translation is probably most accurate.
__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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08-11-2018, 12:08
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#8
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Africa
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Live by winning or die while killing.
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Guymullins is offline
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