Steroids

[deepblack 18x]

I was over on MilitaryAthlete.com and on his home page, he has the following posted.

I was told recently by an Operator that steroid use is common in the special forces community.

Is it? Do you use or have you used steroids, HGH, etc.? If so, how do they help? How do you use them (pre-deployment, in cycles, all the time, etc.)

Where do you get them? How much do they cost? Side effects?

Do you use any other supplements (speed, stimulants?) If so, when and for what?

On my honor I'll keep your confidence.

I'm genuinely curious.

In my recruiting station there is a recruiter with a selection date and I suspect he is on steroids. I have never used steroids, I was however exposed to a community where steroids were used a lot. I played a season of baseball in the Dominican Summer League, where freshly signed free agents play in a development league. Many of the players were on steroid cycles or used them to recover from injury.

I was just curious to how prevalent steroid use is in your community. Is the Army doing anything to keep their soldiers from doing so?

DB

[Buffalobob]

February, 1975, I walked out of the building to my blue Datzun 260 Z, cranked it up and headed north out of Mobile to Birmingham. After spending the evening with my GF, I headed on toward home. Rolling about 90 to 100 mph at 3:00 in the morning east of Oneota and about a mile short of Tait's gap, I came to a long right hand curve. Eased back on the pedal and let it go through at about 80 mph until past the apex. Pushed it back to the floor and suddenly a big ole hound dog rose up right out of the middle of the road where he was sleeping. Not much to do but keep the pedal in the carpet and go over him. The Z lifted up pretty bad but stayed lined up on the road and I eased up and let it coast to a stop. Sat there listening to the engine and watching the gauges fro a few minutes. Finally got out to check the lights and see if fluid was dripping from the engine anywhere. Once I determined the car was OK I decided to go back and make sure the dog was actually dead and finish the job if need be. Drove back up the road and there was no dog, just blood and goo in the road. Sat there thinking about it for a while and finally put the car back in gear and turned it around. As I wound the Z back up to speed, I got to wondering how a dog that stupid had lived long enough to get that big.

Perhaps he was on steroids.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

February, 1975, I walked out of the building to my blue Datzun 260 Z, cranked it up and headed north out of Mobile to Birmingham. After spending the evening with my GF, I headed on toward home. Rolling about 90 to 100 mph at 3:00 in the morning east of Oneota and about a mile short of Tait's gap, I came to a long right hand curve. Eased back on the pedal and let it go through at about 80 mph until past the apex. Pushed it back to the floor and suddenly a big ole hound dog rose up right out of the middle of the road where he was sleeping. Not much to do but keep the pedal in the carpet and go over him. The Z lifted up pretty bad but stayed lined up on the road and I eased up and let it coast to a stop. Sat there listening to the engine and watching the gauges fro a few minutes. Finally got out to check the lights and see if fluid was dripping from the engine anywhere. Once I determined the car was OK I decided to go back and make sure the dog was actually dead and finish the job if need be. Drove back up the road and there was no dog, just blood and goo in the road. Sat there thinking about it for a while and finally put the car back in gear and turned it around. As I wound the Z back up to speed, I got to wondering how a dog that stupid had lived long enough to get that big.

Perhaps he was on steroids.

Maybe it wasn't a dog. Maybe it was an "Operator".

[C0B2A]

Or a SERE student just got to it before you did

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

February, 1975, . . . I got to wondering how a dog that stupid had lived long enough to get that big.

Perhaps he was on steroids.

I love a well told story with a moral. Nice one. Read and heed.

[caveman]

I've made some buddies at 1/75 here in Savannah who admit to using steroids during deployments.

[craigepo]

Originally Posted by caveman

I've made some buddies at 1/75 here in Savannah who admit to using steroids during deployments.

Great. 'Roid rage + live ammo

Steroid stallions were in style in the late 80's and early 90's. I don't remember seeing a single one making it through either Ranger school or SFAS. I distinctly remember one quitting in the middle of that big-assed swamp in Eglin AFB, telling the RI to get him a truck or a chopper to come pick him up. RI's reply "How the hell are we going to get a truck or chopper in here?"

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by craigepo

Great. 'Roid rage + live ammo

Steroid stallions were in style in the late 80's and early 90's. I don't remember seeing a single one making it through either Ranger school or SFAS...

Oh here we go again...

There are more uses for anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) than just getting big; not all those who take them have grande dreams of being Mr Olympia. Some guys take them while recovering from musculo-skeletal injuries, for anti-aging effects, some for recovery after workouts, and then there are those who take them to become larger... Other than the above, which include medical uses, there are a host of conditions AAS's are used to treat which are too many to list here.

Also, not everyone who takes AAS's have "roid-rage." Its a product of taking them improperly. I liken it to mean drunks and alcohol...

The poor endurance issue (long patrols, SFAS/Ranger schools drops) stems not from AAS use but from from the training schedule/individual's focus in training. Not every guy who is Arnold-esque and cant run/ruck is on AAS's and likewise there are plenty of guys who are taking AAS's, who dont look like Arnold, and who compete in Ironman/Triathlons.

As for them being unlawful, they are unlawful, not because of the detrimental effects they can have on the body if taken improperly (if that were the case tylenol and aspirin would be off the shelf as well) but as a direct result of Ben Johnson's testing positive for them during the 1988 Olympics after he set the record in the 100m sprint. During testimony before Congress, the American Medical Association (AMA), Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as well as the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) all argued against listing AAS's as controlled substances. They cited the fact that use of AAS'S do not lead to the physical or psychological dependence required for such scheduling under the Controlled Substance Act. Congress still got what they wanted...

Nevertheless, they are unlawful and should not be taken without a prescription from your doctor and under medical supervision.

Some reading on the subject would clear up many of the misconceptions about AAS, their uses, and those who use them...


Koz: The "medical steroids" (Glucocorticoids) you referenced (and later posted a PM about) arent the same as AAS's. Different structure, different use, effects, etc...

[Dragbag036]

Have you guys ever watched the Documentary "Bigger Stronger Faster". A somewhat insightful film about steroids. There are various sites to watch this for free.

http://www.moviejock.com/bigger-stro...08-t-1375.html

I have spoken with many sports Docs on the subject and many have stated and fill the way Cric does. In some cases it has more to do with FDA and morals.

D

[craigepo]

One of my high school friends was a great running back(graduated 1987). He was about 6' tall, and his senior year weighed approx 230 lbs. He benched approx 300lbs, and was squatting close to 500 lbs. Took steroids like crazy---serious full-body acne. He ran over other high school kids like a freight train. He walked-on at the university of arkansas as a fullback. Didn't make it long; his muscles were stronger than his joints. When he tried to bull through a Division I defensive line, he exploded a knee.

I arrived at 2/75 in early 1989. At that time, Madigan Army hospital was giving "d-bol" to guys in our battalion, doing some kind of steroid study. My first breakfast in the chow hall, I (19-year-old E-2) was thrown across the chow hall by a roid-raging E-6 who was participating in this study. (Seemed he wanted a glass of orange juice in a hurry). Another guy who participated in the study had his elbow bone begin growing. Big muscles, and a left elbow bone that dropped about two inches farther than it should have.

During the Q-course, a friend that I worked out with decided to do "just 1 cycle" (again dynabol). Prior to this, we were curling 30lb dumbbells during workouts. Four weeks later, he was doing bicep curls with 65lb dumbbells. During his cycle, his running went to crap. Looked pretty muscular when he was falling out of the runs, though.

As we sat in one of our 18b classes during that time, he was sitting next to myself and some friends. I remember him turning to me and saying "Look at that fucking instructor. I'm going to fucking kill him." My friends and I asked him why, (of course there was no reason for this outburst) and it was clear he was raging. Thereafter, he bolo'ed the 18Bcourse.(got off the roids and passed later).

Last year, a friend of mine buried his brother, a bodybuilder. Seems the brother had been buying steroids out of mexico. He became septic, and died of a super-infection.

Of course, everybody remembers the demise of Lyle Alzado.

I realize there is a medical reason for anabolic steroids. Likewise, there is a medical reason for the existence of cocaine. Nobody argues the medical benefits, it is the abuse of the substances that is a problem.

I'm sure that some medical experts would disagree with my observations(my spouse, an emergency medicine physician, does not). I worry that people hear the term "performance-enhancing" and think that it is a type of Underdog Super Energy pill. My observations, all of guys who used the steroids to get bigger, would lead to the opposite conclusion: that guys who take steroids(at least the old dynabol type)get big so quickly that they decrease their endurance abilities. Moreover, the side-effects which I have personally observed are horrible.

My apologies for the rant.

[koz]

Originally Posted by deepblack 18x

In my recruiting station there is a recruiter with a selection date and I suspect he is on steroids. I have never used steroids, I was however exposed to a community where steroids were used a lot. I played a season of baseball in the Dominican Summer League, where freshly signed free agents play in a development league. Many of the players were on steroid cycles or used them to recover from injury.

DB

First - many times a guy is on steroids, he may be great at short bursts (2 mi or even a 12miler). But usually the long term endurance is pretty bad. When I went to selection, there were some guys who showed up (I believe they were juicing) that were complete studs. It should have been a breeze for them. A week and a half later, they VW'd and left a nice pile of moleskin, motrin, and foot powder. They didn't have the juice to keep going.

In some DA centered units there are guys who "openly" used steroids. I don't know if they were tested or how they pissed clean if they were tested. A long range patrol is not great for a guy like this. Their body will suffer after day 3/4, by day 10 he's dead weight. A guy on my team was like this - He'd sling weights around like feathers, but he was pretty much worthless after a few days in the field.

Another thing about using steroids for injury recovery. From my very limited medical knowledge, steroids help with reduction of inflammation and swelling. This makes things feel better but doesn't help it in the long run. An "Operator" doesn't have an off-season to recover from seasonal injuries.

I think you'll find steroids everywhere you go. But IMO, it's not any more used in SF than any other military unit.

[koz]

I'm going to revise what I said about use of medical steroids, like I said I have very limited medical knowledge - hey I'm an 18B...

A doc here PM'd me this about medical steroids.

Steroids impact the adrenal glands. The adrenals make adrenalin/epinepherin to support fight or flight responses. Taking exogenous steroids, pills etc., supress normal adrenal function. With that said, the adrenals need help for up to six months from the last dose of exogenous steroids. This is, in part, why those folks just don't do so well. Patients that came to me for surgery after steroids up to six months out, got several doses of steroids before, during and after surgery.

[deepblack 18x]

Koz, thanks for the insight. Just to clarify in no way am I considering taking steroids. If I was going to take them I would have done so to better my baseball career.

DB

[mark46th]

Glad he didn't ask about amphetamines.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by koz

First - many times a guy is on steroids, he may be great at short bursts (2 mi or even a 12miler). But usually the long term endurance is pretty bad. When I went to selection, there were some guys who showed up (I believe they were juicing) that were complete studs. It should have been a breeze for them. A week and a half later, they VW'd and left a nice pile of moleskin, motrin, and foot powder. They didn't have the juice to keep going.

In some DA centered units there are guys who "openly" used steroids. I don't know if they were tested or how they pissed clean if they were tested. A long range patrol is not great for a guy like this. Their body will suffer after day 3/4, by day 10 he's dead weight. A guy on my team was like this - He'd sling weights around like feathers, but he was pretty much worthless after a few days in the field.

Another thing about using steroids for injury recovery. From my very limited medical knowledge, steroids help with reduction of inflammation and swelling. This makes things feel better but doesn't help it in the long run. An "Operator" doesn't have an off-season to recover from seasonal injuries.

I think you'll find steroids everywhere you go. But IMO, it's not any more used in SF than any other military unit.

Easy the Army rarely ever tests for them it is an expensive tests that the Army must send off to the Olympic testing facility at about 150$ a pop. I am 220 lb and have never seen so many 22 yr olds that dwarf me in the SF and regular army gyms and very young guys lifting absurd weights consistently. These guys usually use juice overseas and what you see quite common is a guy who damages his connective tissue which gains strength at roughly 1/3 the rate of muscle by lifting to his juiced up muscle potential and tearing the skeletal muscle like Ligaments and tendons