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Old 06-18-2019, 12:48   #1
Uman
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Are we selecting the right people and training them correctly

Are we selecting the right people with the right mentality for our core mission of UW?

Does the SFQC prepare the future SF Team member to understand and conduct full spectrum UW?

If you look at Rhodesia their SAS and Selous Scouts looked for different traits because of different core missions.
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Old 06-18-2019, 16:15   #2
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Originally Posted by Uman View Post
Are we selecting the right people with the right mentality for our core mission of UW?

Does the SFQC prepare the future SF Team member to understand and conduct full spectrum UW?

If you look at Rhodesia their SAS and Selous Scouts looked for different traits because of different core missions.
SFQC at best is a test of physical & mental fortitude. One does not go to SFQC to learn.

If one gets selected and goes on to the Q, you will be taught the fundamentals of all the core traits of SF, plus your assigned MOS specialty.

When you complete the Q and receive the long tab, you will be assigned to a team and your training will continue.
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Old 06-18-2019, 22:03   #3
Uman
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I get it the differences

I am fully aware of the differences. Where do SF Operators (see our history as this term goes back to 1952) learn more than just the basics of UW?

Where in our NCOES and OES is the higher learning on the core mission?

Subjects like

This is how a VEO takes over a village then spreads it to another village and then the state and then the country.

This is how agitation propaganda works

Remember It Is Far More Intellectual Than a Bayonet Charge...or Raid

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Old 06-19-2019, 09:23   #4
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Originally Posted by Uman View Post
I am fully aware of the differences. Where do SF Operators (see our history as this term goes back to 1952) learn more than just the basics of UW?

Where in our NCOES and OES is the higher learning on the core mission?

Subjects like

This is how a VEO takes over a village then spreads it to another village and then the state and then the country.

This is how agitation propaganda works

Remember It Is Far More Intellectual Than a Bayonet Charge...or Raid
opsec?
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:30   #5
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Ok - I'm going to take the bait.......

Quote:
Are we selecting the right people with the right mentality for our core mission of UW?
Who are "we" and "our" ??


I really need to understand who you are referring to as "we" and "our"so I can properly formulate the correct ratio of "Real Answer to Snarky Cynicism" for my future posts in this thread.
The entire "Assessment and Selection" process has had more tweaks than an 80 year old mans lower back but the overall process has remained pretty constant for right at 67 years.

What do "we" think about that?
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Last edited by Box; 06-19-2019 at 13:48.
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Old 01-22-2022, 20:51   #6
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Sorry to resurrect this from 2019- but while I was at SWCS a couple years ago this was a hot topic. The two views I heard:

1- Selection doesn't necessarily select for the right traits- it is probably too heavily reliant on the physical and not enough on the mental. The Q isn't where we train guys to be SF- it is just the basics, then they get to a team and really learn how to be SF. If we try to pick the right people perfectly- we'll never get it right and probably just screw it up--- and if we try to train SF guys thoroughly in the Q they'll be at SWCS forever and/or we'll be constantly changing things.

2- we can't make any changes to Selection because it will be looked at as if we're making things easier for females and then there will be night letters and GOs getting retired... so can't have that. Same for the Q--- but we can change it and will.... because change looks like progress. And it had gotten out of hand in terms of length. Problem is... every change... creates delays in the pipeline and bottlenecks. But- THIS time we'll get it right...

Here's a question I never understood- one of the guys who did the most work out at MacKall to figure out Selection, gather data, and try to get at the intangibles- was allowed to stay to make LTC out there, then retired and works for the Indianapolis Colts now as their head of player development. No one has reached out to him... and one of his biggest takeaways was you can't just look at objective data... you have to do some other stuff and do some interviews... to get at the intangible and subjective. You have to figure out values. I'd argue we went the opposite way lately...
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Old 01-22-2022, 21:37   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailaviborita View Post
Sorry to resurrect this from 2019- but while I was at SWCS a couple years ago this was a hot topic. The two views I heard:

1- Selection doesn't necessarily select for the right traits- it is probably too heavily reliant on the physical and not enough on the mental. The Q isn't where we train guys to be SF- it is just the basics, then they get to a team and really learn how to be SF. If we try to pick the right people perfectly- we'll never get it right and probably just screw it up--- and if we try to train SF guys thoroughly in the Q they'll be at SWCS forever and/or we'll be constantly changing things.

2- we can't make any changes to Selection because it will be looked at as if we're making things easier for females and then there will be night letters and GOs getting retired... so can't have that. Same for the Q--- but we can change it and will.... because change looks like progress. And it had gotten out of hand in terms of length. Problem is... every change... creates delays in the pipeline and bottlenecks. But- THIS time we'll get it right...

Here's a question I never understood- one of the guys who did the most work out at MacKall to figure out Selection, gather data, and try to get at the intangibles- was allowed to stay to make LTC out there, then retired and works for the Indianapolis Colts now as their head of player development. No one has reached out to him... and one of his biggest takeaways was you can't just look at objective data... you have to do some other stuff and do some interviews... to get at the intangible and subjective. You have to figure out values. I'd argue we went the opposite way lately...
If only there were SOF organizations that had a particular mission that “Selected” people based on a “Mission Set” that was considered “No-Fail”. Maybe, just maybe, the “bosses” could “interview” each “candidate” after they were worn down to raw nerves to see just what kind of Man the “candidate” was. Then, after that “Selection”, the “Candidate” would return for “Extensive Training” on that particular “No-Fail-Mission”, and if that “Candidate” should happen to “Fail”, they would be “Released for failing to meet Standards”…..

See, UW is treated as a “ho-hum, maybe it’ll work, maybe it won’t” instead of “If you get kicked out of the G-Base, the Taliban will defeat the Northern Alliance”…. Yeah, that almost happened more than once….. But hey, Failure apparently IS an option today….

I’m glad I am retiring…..
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Old 01-23-2022, 00:02   #8
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...to get at the intangible and subjective. You have to figure out values.
I love a good necro-post and this one is awesome. Quite some years ago I worked with a Marine and he talked about getting at the intangibles and the subjective as it related to the USMC recruiting approach and like you said - its all about the value system.

Ever since then, I've used this analogy:

For years, the US Army has appealed to the selfish side of recruits.
Join the Army - we'll give you money for college.
Join the Army - we'll teach you a skill that you can use when you get out.
Join the Army and travel the world.
Join the Army, we'll embrace your dysphoria.

The USMC doesn't have to pitch any of that shit.
Hey there Mr Gunnery Sergeant - the Army recruiter said he'll give me college money...
-Well, the Marines give you college money too. So do the Air Force and the Navy.
Well then Mr Gunnery Sergeant, why should I join the Marines if everyone gives out the same college money?
-Well, because you'll get to be a mother fucking Marine.

Look at those old commercials - Army commercials had people in the back of a commo van, learning how to talk on the radio.
Or a guy waving his canteen cup at the 1SG as if that shot would really go down that way.
Or one lone dude literally running the opposite way as everything going on behind him as we marched forward with an 'Army of One'.

The USMC had a commercial where a guy climbed up a mountain, picked up a fucking broad sword imbued with a lightning bolt, and killed a fucking dragon.
The Army drinks coffee - the fucking Marines Kill Dragons with electrified fuck swords.


The Army isn't the least bit interested in espousing a value system. Even now - our online recruiting campaigns address our acceptance of intersectionality and our commitment to helping the new generation recognize their true identity. We offer intersectional single parents a welcome home while the Marines fight a running gun battle.

"We" talk a good story, but our senior Army leaders are stuck using words like campus and enterprise instead of barracks and unit.
the light is fading folks - the sun is going down and the close of the day is getting closer.

(at this point, some of you should be hearing Rodney Dangerfields booming voice in your head, emotionally reciting the words from an old Dylan Thomas poem)

Quote:
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Values are so 2000 and late.


These
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Old 01-23-2022, 06:44   #9
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Dang - two "Box is right" threads in a row!!!

That's been my bitch about raw Army versus the Corps for 30 years. The Army is all about "Come on down, we want you, we'll give you free shit, and you'll love it."

The Marines are: "Hey, slow down Cowboy....we're not sure you have what it takes to be a Marine."

Guess to which branch a testosterone-filled 18 year old stud says: "Oh yeah?? Fuck you...here I come!!"
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Old 01-23-2022, 09:05   #10
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and for note - there is a current USMC commercial that follows a woman - but it doesn't "celebrate" her womanhood - it simply reinforces that the service needs people that know what right looks like and that every Marine is an Infantryman

our mainstream commercials are depicting individuals as though they are video game avatars...

I guess we need to recruit more nerds that can wage just enough cyberwar to make sure our pipelines aren't compromised and that our soldiers aren't getting too opinionated on social media
...except for that problem where we cant seem to defeat the obligatory Chinese hackers


Critical thinking, vision, equity, excelsior !!
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Old 01-23-2022, 13:38   #11
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Here's one from the other side . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQSmctFqZlI
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Old 01-24-2022, 07:49   #12
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compared to ours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME
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Old 01-24-2022, 11:51   #13
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Please tell me that’s a prank video.
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Old 01-24-2022, 12:34   #14
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Please tell me that’s a prank video.
Look up the GoArmy ewetoob channel and look through the "The Calling" Series.
Then go back and look at some of the random GoArmy videos on their channel.
Eventually you will notice that all of "The Calling" series has had the comments turned off.
Many off their videos allow comments - but the ones addressing anything remotely controversial are usually turned off.
The Army doesn't really want to hear what you've got to say.

It's not a prank.
...diversity, ekwality, and inclusivity are what we will use to fight the next war.
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Old 01-24-2022, 18:53   #15
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latest Army Tweet

https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1485025247199997956

I was always told it was a no fail mission.
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