Madrid

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by lrd
What do you think their goals were? Beyond the affecting the election?

I would say they more than acheived their goals.

[Basenshukai]

Sadly, as the nearly 200 bodies are prepared for burial, the Spanish population is questioning the wisdom of its government having supported the United States in its Global War on Terrorism (GWOT); namely Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). About two years ago I had the pleasure of training alongside a Spanish infantry officer. He was not only highly competent in his country’s doctrine, but was equally adept at our own. On the eve of his return to Spain, he told me about the one thing that set the United States military apart from the Spanish armed forces the most. His revelation was surprising. It was not our realistic training – constantly tested and validated in battle. It was not our cutting edge technology - years ahead of any military in the world. It was not our highly trained non-commissioned officer corps - the most professional in the world. It was the willingness of the American people, more than anywhere else in the world, to commit their sons and daughters to voluntary military service and to have the moral and physical courage to get after the enemy, wherever he may be. Historically, Spain, as a nation, has lacked the willingness to involve itself in modern conflict.

Spain remained militarily neutral during World War One. Economically, it was a very significant source of goods for France, the other allies and South America. Amazingly, Spain also lost close to 140,000 tons of shipping (not to mention ship personnel) to the German U-Boats during the war. Nevertheless, Spain was not eager to engage the Germans, directly, or otherwise, in the prosecution of any retaliatory military action.

During World War Two, Spain was neutral as well. However, from the period of 1939 to 1942, it was quite close to the Axis Powers. The rule of Franco and the economic destruction following its three-year civil war, took any incentive out of the Spanish government to involve itself into a destructive conflict. Nevertheless, Franco had entered into talks with Hitler in order to secure Spain’s security during the war (a pervasive attitude in Europe called “appeasement�).

In the end, I think that fighting is not in the heart of Spanish people. It will probably take a strong government and, sadly, another catastrophic event, to propel Spain forward into a true fight against terrorism on its own soil and beyond. Al Qaeda’s strike against Spain has come at a critical time. The fact that the strike has come exactly 911 days after our own collision with destiny should not be lost on us. The symbolism here is obvious. However, the most important aspect of this strike is just below the surface.

This latest attack clearly punishes Spain for supporting the United States during OIF and the GWOT. The average Spaniard psyche is germane to the next point. These attacks will likely, and predictably, create a backlash against the current ruling party as it supported the United States and indirectly proposed an alternate target for Al Qaeda to exploit. Many on the left see Spain’s support as a return to the days of St. James the Moorslayer, who is said to have helped the Spanish warriors drive out the Muslim occupiers nearly 800 years ago. This is nonsensical rhetoric but nevertheless, not lost on the far left there, or anywhere else in Europe.

If this strategy works to significantly affect the upcoming elections, Al Qaeda would have achieved an even grander victory. If Al Qaeda proves to itself that it can manipulate a nation’s elections, then no election, anywhere, is safe.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Agreed, but we would out the current President based on his failure to protect us....

Only if his replacement was deemed to be better at protecting us.

As that does not appear to be the popular opinion, I would say that it would have the opposite effect here.

Additional terrorist attacks here, unless demonstrably caused by Administration neglect, should prove to help the current Administration in their re-election campaign.

Now, if they would only select a VP who brings something more electable to the table. Like Powell, or Rice.

TR

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by The Reaper
Only if his replacement was deemed to be better at protecting us.

As that does not appear to be the popular opinion, I would say that it would have the opposite effect here.
TR

Sadly I think this would be accomplished by “pulling out� of every country we are currently hunting terrorists in. That’s how Kerry and his kind will protect us, by conceding to the terrorists. Without the pressure of the United States on their asses they will be free to attack the weak nations and convert them to their ways. That’s how I see the future if Kerry is elected.

[Basenshukai]

I guess we were right. Spain's elections have been decided by Al Qaeda.

[shadowflyer]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I agree, this was a huge success on their part. They are now planning the next hit, anyone got a list of countries backing the United States against the AQ and Iraq?

Working on that INTEL at this moment TS.

Best Regards,
J

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by Basenshukai
During World War Two, Spain was neutral as well. However, from the period of 1939 to 1942, it was quite close to the Axis Powers. The rule of Franco and the economic destruction following its three-year civil war, took any incentive out of the Spanish government to involve itself into a destructive conflict. Nevertheless, Franco had entered into talks with Hitler in order to secure Spain’s security during the war (a pervasive attitude in Europe called “appeasement�).

The Division Azul ("Blue Division") was formed from volunteers in 1941. The first Spanish troops arrived at Grafenwöhr in July 1941. On 25 July, they were officially designated the 250. Infanterie-Division and reorganized on German lines (Spanish infantry divisions at the time were "square" divisions, with 4 regiments; German divisions were triangular, with 3 regiments). On the evening of 11-12 October 1941, the division conducted a relief in place of a German division of the XXXVIII Army Corps, 18th Army, Army Group North. The next night, the Spaniards saw their first combat. They would fight pretty much continuously through that first Russian winter and into 1942. By September 1942, they were part of the siege of Leningrad. Between February 9 and February 11, 1943, the Spaniards suffered heavy casualties (75%) in the battle of Krasny Bor. Fighting continued throughout the year and in October 1943, the division was withdrawn and began the return to Spain. Several thousand volunteers remained behind as a Spanish Legion (the "Legion Azul") and served into early 1944. By April 1944, the Spanish Legion returned to Spain, but several hundred Spaniards remained in German service, including SS-Obersturmbannführer Miguel Ezquerra's Sturmabteilung "Ezquerra", which fought until the end in the battle of Berlin (Ezquerra himself managed to get out of Berlin after the Soviet victory).

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I agree, this was a huge success on their part. They are now planning the next hit, anyone got a list of countries backing the United States against the AQ and Iraq?

There are plenty of lists:
- those with troops on the ground in Iraq;
- the political coalition for OIF; and
- those with troops in OEF fighting al-Qa'ida and other terrorists.

But make no mistake. This was not about Spain's role in Iraq. That was only one small part of the terrorists' casus belli. This is a war against the West and Western values - liberty, equality, fraternity, pluralism, and all that.

There are plenty of countries who are with us in Iraq that are worried - the Czechs recently intercepted a shipment of tons of plastic explosives - but even those not with us in Iraq - France, for example - harbor no illusions that they are safe. I seriously doubt Greece will cancel all of its security precautions for the Olympics this summer now that only OIF coalition members are at risk.

[Airbornelawyer]

Regarding "who's next", one thing to note:

Next Sunday, March 21, is the Persian New Year (Nauroz or any of a myriad of variant spellings). Besides Iran, it is celebrated in Afghanistan and Kurdistan.

According to Turkish press reports, the Iraqi Kurdish PUK has already claimed to have foiled one AQ suicide bomb plot for the new year's celebrations in Sulaimaniyah.

From Kirkuk to Kabul, this is one of the more immediate threats to watch.

[Pandora]

Breakdown of Troops on the ground in Iraq by Country

[NousDefionsDoc]

I think Italy is next

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by Pandora
Breakdown of Troops on the ground in Iraq by Country

The information in that article is inaccurate.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I think Italy is next

My thoughts exactly.

Or England, but they may be a harder target. I suspect that the larger Muslim and immigrant population in England may offset their superior security posture and make it a toss-up.

The ability to change the outcome of an election in a European nation is a scary portent of things to come and is the exact aim of terrorism.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by The Reaper
My thoughts exactly.

Or England, but they may be a harder target. I suspect that the larger Muslim and immigrant population in England may offset their superior security posture and make it a toss-up.

The ability to change the outcome of an election in a European nation is a scary portent of things to come and is the exact aim of terrorism.

TR

I agree completely. I say Italy because it is the other country besides Spain where polls showed a majority were opposed to sending troops to Iraq and the politicians did it anyway - easy to get the same result.

Also agree about the offset in England. It was my 2nd choice.

[Team Sergeant]

I agree with Italy but not England. You have a major bombing there (like Spain) and you're just going to enrage them along with the United States and double the efforts of the both countries.
The terrorists have learned (and terrorist supporting nations) that if there is a major event were to occur in the US we will act quickly and unilaterally. We will remove heads of state and entire governments over such acts. I really do not think the AQ saw that coming.

Italy on the other hand would fold in two seconds and follow the Spanish example of “if attacked place head in sand.�