01-25-2006, 06:10
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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18F
The 18F portion of SF training has evolved over the years.
The main point of it is many can go to the school and hold an 18F MOS but few are "real" 18Fs. A good 18F has a "feel" for things more like a good police detective. The ability to direct the intelligence cycle and make sense of it is an art form. HUMINT is not something you say, it's an even higher art form.
As for 18Ds and 18Es? Well, I see nothing has changed in 25 years. I expressed my views to a few CSMs over the years and the replies were not what I wanted to hear.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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01-25-2006, 08:35
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#17
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pete
The 18F portion of SF training has evolved over the years.
The main point of it is many can go to the school and hold an 18F MOS but few are "real" 18Fs. A good 18F has a "feel" for things more like a good police detective. The ability to direct the intelligence cycle and make sense of it is an art form. HUMINT is not something you say, it's an even higher art form.
As for 18Ds and 18Es? Well, I see nothing has changed in 25 years. I expressed my views to a few CSMs over the years and the replies were not what I wanted to hear.
Pete
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Yeah I really dont know where the logic comes from..............
Times are a changing and all, but I still know a lot of hold outs on the Computer side of the house. Alot of guys still have no skills and dont want any either. If you dont care to have any computer skills then maybe you shouldnt be going to the F course.
At the same time, most Echo's and Delta's have a substantial computer base to build upon. Not only that, but they tend to be more inclined to the Fox side of the house to boot.
Also I have no idea who got the impression that once you are switched to the Fox MOS that you automatically cant do your previous job. Seems to be a trend, I've seen quite a few 18F/ 18Z that seem to forget that they also have a previous skill set.........not trying to flame on anyone in particular, just passing along what I've seen!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"Most of us here can attest that we never took the easy way. Easy just is............easy. Life is a work in progress, and most of the time its a struggle." ~ Me
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
"A Government that is losing to an insurgency is not being outfought, it is being out governed." Bernard B. Fall
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LongWire is offline
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01-25-2006, 09:51
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#18
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Computers? What's a computer?
OK...I realize I went to O&I a little while ago-uhhhh...maybe a long while ago (but not REALLY long) ....but we weren't authorized computers.
Everything we did...E V E R Y painful handwritten piece of paper in our 100+ page packages had to be handwritten in block letters. All of our order of battle stuff was book bound and based.
You guys are really making me feel old 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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01-27-2006, 03:29
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#19
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
OK...I realize I went to O&I a little while ago-uhhhh...maybe a long while ago (but not REALLY long) ....but we weren't authorized computers.
Everything we did...E V E R Y painful handwritten piece of paper in our 100+ page packages had to be handwritten in block letters. All of our order of battle stuff was book bound and based.
You guys are really making me feel old
Eagle |
Dont feel bad......it was the same way when I went through 3 yrs ago, But understand that this is the New Fox Course now, being run seperate from ANCOC again.............
Even if they were doing all the stuff by hand, you get back to group and eveything is automated again, so it wouldnt really help that much, other than if your shit crashed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"Most of us here can attest that we never took the easy way. Easy just is............easy. Life is a work in progress, and most of the time its a struggle." ~ Me
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
"A Government that is losing to an insurgency is not being outfought, it is being out governed." Bernard B. Fall
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LongWire is offline
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01-28-2006, 02:40
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#20
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I suppose the part that disturbs me most about this decision is the profound ignorance that it displays of the role played by 18D's when deployed.
There is no faster, more efficient way to make friends than to treat their children.
And that is all that I will say about that.
__________________
1st Platoon "Bad 'Muthers," Company A, 2d Ranger Battalion, 1980-1984;
ODA 151, Company B, 2d Battalion, 1SFGA, 1984-1986.
SFQC 04-84; Ranger class 14-81.
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magician is offline
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01-28-2006, 11:48
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#21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by magician
I suppose the part that disturbs me most about this decision is the profound ignorance that it displays of the role played by 18D's when deployed.
There is no faster, more efficient way to make friends than to treat their children.
And that is all that I will say about that.
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That's a good point there Stevo-but you know what that means now...
18F=NURSE 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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01-28-2006, 15:12
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#22
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They've done this before, maybe not quite so publically. Tells me they're short the two MOS in a bad way. It won't last.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-29-2006, 08:43
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#23
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
They've done this before, maybe not quite so publically. Tells me they're short the two MOS in a bad way. It won't last.
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They are Always short of these 2............I really dont understand the disconnect, It seems as though we are always needing these 2 MOS's.
__________________
"Most of us here can attest that we never took the easy way. Easy just is............easy. Life is a work in progress, and most of the time its a struggle." ~ Me
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
"A Government that is losing to an insurgency is not being outfought, it is being out governed." Bernard B. Fall
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LongWire is offline
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01-29-2006, 08:48
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#24
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LongWire
They are Always short of these 2............I really dont understand the disconnect, It seems as though we are always needing these 2 MOS's.
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I don't understand the Echo thing either, not really much to it from what I can see...
As for the Medics, well, it's hard to find diamonds in the rough that will eventually produce shining perfection. 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-29-2006, 09:18
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#25
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I don't understand the Echo thing either, not really much to it from what I can see...
As for the Medics, well, it's hard to find diamonds in the rough that will eventually produce shining perfection. |
Your in a Mood Today Huh???????
__________________
"Most of us here can attest that we never took the easy way. Easy just is............easy. Life is a work in progress, and most of the time its a struggle." ~ Me
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
"A Government that is losing to an insurgency is not being outfought, it is being out governed." Bernard B. Fall
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LongWire is offline
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01-29-2006, 09:29
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#26
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Location: LA
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LOL - not at all. Just happy to be here... 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-29-2006, 10:27
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#27
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Quiet Professional
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Honestly though...since they did away with AMIC...hasn't the pass rate increased???
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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01-29-2006, 10:31
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#28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
Honestly though...since they did away with AMIC...hasn't the pass rate increased???
Eagle
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Uh oh.... 
I was poking the TS a little with a sharp pointy stick. I didn't think anyone would actually be silly enough to come along and pour rock salt on the wound...LOL
Actually, my guess would be no, indicator being they won't let them go to the Fox course.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-29-2006, 11:02
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#29
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
Honestly though...since they did away with AMIC...hasn't the pass rate increased???
Eagle
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Well, the attrition rate for those failing AIMC has certainly decreased.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-29-2006, 11:10
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#30
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Location: Tampa
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Well, the attrition rate for those failing AIMC has certainly decreased.
TR
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Thank you for clearing that up TR. Ahhhh...I can now rest easy.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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