02-20-2004, 22:26
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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What about those that slip in under the radar?
There should also be a way to strip ones citizenship from them after having been charged with a crime during a war time against the US so said person can be tried as an enemy combatant.
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:30
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#17
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,107
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
Born here, specific number of years of satisfactory residency, followed by a citizenship test, or military service, like we do for adults?
Limited citizenship rights till then.
TR
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TR would you also include civil service for those that could not serve in the Military for some reason? (ie: physical limitations, asthma, vision problems or the like)
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Gypsy is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:36
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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Not speaking for TR but adding my .02... I think Fire, EMS, LEO would be included in there.
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:36
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#19
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy
TR would you also include civil service for those that could not serve in the Military for some reason? (ie: physical limitations, asthma, vision problems or the like)
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No. Serve or die!
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:38
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#20
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,107
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No. Serve or die!
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LOL!
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Gypsy is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:39
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#21
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,107
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surgicalcric
Not speaking for TR but adding my .02... I think Fire, EMS, LEO would be included in there.
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I think that would make sense as well...you are serving the community at large.
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Gypsy is offline
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02-20-2004, 23:21
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#22
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No. Serve or die!
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So, would you let people with Visa's enlist?
One other change. Marrying an American should not
expedite the process.
I need to find the article about a New York woman that
married aliens for a living. She was on husband 85, or some
ridiculous number, when BCIS/INS finally caught up with her.
Last edited by ghuinness; 02-22-2004 at 17:20.
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02-22-2004, 16:10
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#23
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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AP -- Fayetteville, North Carolina -- February 22, 2004:
Local authorities announced today that The Reaper has been taken into custody on charges of plotting to destroy Washington and New York with tactical nuclear devices. Authorities allege that The Reaper is the leader of an Al Qaida sleeper cell formed over 20 years ago, when The Reaper entered the United States armed forces. Authorities seized a laptop computer and satellite phone from The Reaper's residence which they say he used to communicate secretly with his Al Qaida handlers.
"The first thing we'll do is strip him of his purported citizenship under the newly enacted "Gypsy's Law," said Richard B. "Dick" White, III, the United States Attorney for the District of North Carolina. "This man obviously doesn't deserve a trial or any other protections available to patriotic, law-abiding citizens."
* * *
The laptop and sat phone were planted. The Reaper is completely innocent. But he's at Gitmo being treated like an enemy soldier.
Still want to deny U.S. citizens their constitutional rights? Or are you guys going to try to rewrite your proposed new laws?
BTW, my opinion is that I want to make life difficult for criminals and terrorists, but I do support many constitutional rights for criminal defendants. Until you've been accused, you may not appreciate how important they are.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:26
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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Molon Labe!
If you catch me, you can have me.
The real issue is these people's "citizenship".
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:30
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#25
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy
Yes, Sir, I do.
I was blessed to be born in America and to enjoy the freedoms and rights afforded to me as a citizen, but never do I take them for granted. They were paid for long ago, and will continue to be paid for, by the Men and Women who give their blood, sweat and tears and sometimes their lives. Consequently I feel that I, and all citizens of America, have a responsibilty to be productive contributing citizens and positively impact society in whatever ways we can.
In this day and age, I fail to understand when a "citizen" plots terrorist activities against our Country how they retain their rights; they wish to destroy "the Infidel" but then expect due process to be afforded to them to protect their civil liberties. It is as if suddenly they are American Citizens once again. As far as I'm concerned these people give up their rights when they strike or plot against our Nation. Even more mind boggling for me is attempting to reason with those that feel the terrorists have more rights than the victims...real or intended. They give me a headache.
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When a citizen is convicted of a felony, the citizen's rights are impaired. You lose the right to vote, for example.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:32
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#26
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
Molon Labe!
If you catch me, you can have me.
The real issue is these people's "citizenship".
TR
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OK, can someone tell me what "Molon Labe" means? 
The last sentence is understood. The fact that TR was the wrongly accused person in my example does not mean I was replying to his post. I really was responding to a bunch of posts in the thread at the same time.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:33
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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BTW, my opinion is that I want to make life difficult for criminals and terrorists, but I do support many constitutional rights for criminal defendants. Until you've been accused, you may not appreciate how important they are.
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Right! Until you've been unjustly accused by the Man, you just don't know. What's the reason for unjust accusations?
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...=&threadid=667
LOL - coppers need to quit playing GI Joe and get right.
BTW, Sacamuelas is perpetuating the problem.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:34
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#28
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surgicalcric
If a person takes up arms against their own countrymen they do not deserve the rights afforded them under The Constitution.
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At what point has the person "taken up arms"? When the person is accused of it?
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:47
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I'm going to go off on a little tangent here. I think one of the biggest problems is that the Gov doesn't want to tell the judges how they know XYZ dude is a terrorist, sympathizer, whatever. The same problem appears to be occurring with other branches of government, like Senators, etc. Why is that? IMO, because they KNOW there will be a leak. When's the last time we tried a major pwoer figure for leaking classified information? Damn Senator's aids running to the press, judges talking more than defense lawyers, etc. The whole thing has become a whore to the press.
If we can't trust a US District Court Judge with state secrets, he shouldn't be in the damn position. Same same with Senators.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-22-2004, 16:58
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#30
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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One argument is that leaked secure information is more than just a problem in itself- it also allows the government to be increasingly minimalistic with the truth, while maintaining public support. Some say that instead of lying, the government simply says that pertinent information exists, but can't be exposed because of potential security hazards.
In my eyes, the lack of control over individuals- aides, judges, and most importantly the press- has created this problem. On the other hand, I think that a free press is generally beneficial (although often annoying), and is a hallmark of enlightened democracy. I'm not sure that laws can solve this problem, and that it instead relies on the morality of the government.
Solid
Last edited by Solid; 02-22-2004 at 17:01.
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