'Islam Is Islam, And That's It' - Page 2

T-Rock · 02-05-2012, 03:58

Quote:

This guy doesnt even recognize Islam for what it is.

I do, Islam is the petri-dish which allows vile pathogens to grow and flourish…

wmaousley · 02-06-2012, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Ok then. What is Islam?

In a nut shell, The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of God.

wmaousley · 02-06-2012, 00:25

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Originally Posted by orion5

wmaousley,

You live in the Middle East and work for Oil & Gas. You apparently have unique insight into Islam. I, too, would like to hear your answer.

o5

I think one of the biggest perceptions of Muslims is that all follow a strict Islamic code, which is farthest from the truth.

Islam has its following just like Christianity, Judaism etc; Since I have been in the ME I see many who identify as Muslim but drink alcohol, eat pork, have tattoo's and many other things Islam forbids.

This is normal in any religious sect. WHy do we as westerners hold those who Identify as Islamic to a higher standard than we hold ourselves? Are we looking for the greater good, or are we looking to point out someone's faults? Think about that for a reason.

I have a huge respect for all religions, and could care less how you pray, or who you pray too.

I judge a man by his character not his religious beliefs.

wmaousley · 02-06-2012, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

The answer will depend on if you're an 80%er or a 20%er.

But the religion of peace was toasting some more civilians in Bagdad the last day or so.

Boko Haram is working hard to get out front in the church burning and civilian slaughtering tally count.

The KKK burns churches every year across the southern United States. Did we go after the KKK in the 40's, 50's, 60's & 70's for burning down churches and hold them responsible? NOPE

This is what I was talking about in the other post. We only look for the bad in others so we can point fingers. Lets look at our own and start with policing them before we point fingers.

Yeah what you mention above is horrible and these people identify as muslims but arent recognized by the islamic community.

T-Rock · 02-06-2012, 00:39

Quote:

Islam has its following just like Christianity, Judaism etc...

Islam is unique in having a developed doctrine, theology, and legal system that mandates warfare against unbelievers..., it is a legal imperative to do so...

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (5:51), therefore, "...Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. (9:29) also,..."The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews" (al-Bukhari)

ETA:

The Objectives of Jihad

o9.0
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion.

o9.1 Jihad is a communal obligation (def: c3.2). When enough people perform it to successfully accomplish it, it is no longer obligatory upon others.

o9.6 It is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the Caliph’s permission (A: though if there is no Caliph (def: o25), no permission is required.
(The Reliance of the Traveler. Pgs 599-609)

**Pete** · 02-06-2012, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmaousley

Yeah what you mention above is horrible and these people identify as muslims but arent recognized by the islamic community.

Well it appears "those people" are the 80% of Islam that you 20%ers are not recognizing.

**Box** · 02-06-2012, 10:30

I also notice that most normal western world folks are quick to openly denounce the KKK or any other band of fruitcakes (like the fine god fearing christians at westboro baptist church) as little more than common criminals

On the other hand, when someone is beheaded as an honor killing, or creates a stir and blames it on religious intolerance of islam, or looks the other way when muslim suicide bombers kill innocent muslims as a way of punishing americans, CAIR and others cut from the same cloth fail to DENOUNCE the behavior, instead they seem to remind us that there is a sensitivity that we uneducated unwashed westerners just dont understand and that we should try to understand instead of judge, accept instead of isolate...

blah blah blah...

smoke and mirrors

Badger52 · 02-07-2012, 10:04

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Originally Posted by wmaousley

Yeah what you mention above is horrible and these people identify as muslims but arent recognized by the islamic community.

Cool. I'm gonna cruise around today looking for the mild-mannered Muslim organizations; ya know, those engaged in their other Jihad, fixing their own personal failings, the ones overtly renouncing such violent behavior...

PedOncoDoc · 02-07-2012, 10:43

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Originally Posted by Badger52

Cool. I'm gonna cruise around today looking for the mild-mannered Muslim organizations; ya know, those engaged in their other Jihad, fixing their own personal failings, the ones overtly renouncing such violent behavior...

You could start here: 34 Imams in Canada and US issue Fatwa against honor killings (link).

A google search for "Fatwa against suicide bombings" also yields some potential contacts.

Unfortunately, these are "too little, too late" IMHO, and have be responded to with violence by those who disagree.

Badger52 · 02-07-2012, 13:14

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Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

You could start here:

Agree, in some cases (but not for present POTUS and many others) too little too late. Thanks for the links.

The 2010 Tahir-ul-Qadri document has some interesting topics. Still, this is one cleric and there is no unity of interpretation - not uncommon in religions - but not too many of the varied branches of other religions are wholesale bent on killing me & mine. A small percent of a really huge number is still a really big number.

I recall one gent on another forum quite awhile ago who drew a parallel regarding the outrage over stereotyping or profiling a threat. He posted dog attacks on humans, all breeds, the large majority of which were pit bulls and the premise was summarized by the title of the discussion:

"Once again, it was not a Golden Retriever..."

**The Reaper** · 02-07-2012, 19:27

Could a Muslim Martin Luther reform Islam today, or would they stone him to death out of hand as an apostate?

Are Muslims capable of that level of introspection and analysis of their religion?

TR

greenberetTFS · 02-08-2012, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Could a Muslim Martin Luther reform Islam today, or would they stone him to death out of hand as an apostate?

Are Muslims capable of that level of introspection and analysis of their religion?

TR

TR

He would be stoned to death because in most of their eyes he would be an apostate.....

Well,maybe not stoned,instead "beheaded" that's the more up to date measure of retaliation to those who disagree with Islam.......

Give the big "O" four more years and you won't believe where this country will be at culturally,but then it maybe to late,time is not on our side............

Big Teddy