Eric Haney on Schools as Targets

[CoLawman]

Now as an LEO riddle me this, ever wonder WHY the authorities will NOT release the documents relating to the Columbine shooting????

If what I've been told is true a few more need to go to jail or at least be relieved of duty.

TS

[/QUOTE]

The answer to your riddle can be found in an old Chinese Proverb.
What was so yesterday, may not be so today.

The entire investigation, including tapes, maps, photos, diaries, autopsy reports are all available for viewing.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col...t.exclude.html

[CoLawman]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Not looking to start a pissing contest, and I fully understand your comments about the quality of the talent in those positions.

Having said that, as a warrior, I think that the job of the SRO in the event of an active shooter is to call in the SITREP, defend the students to the last round and then go down swinging.

I do not want anyone who does not believe that to be securing the schools of my kids. In fact, that should be part of the requirements and inbrief for an SRO.

Firing a few rounds and abandoning your post (and kids) to run from a couple of untrained punks is cowardice.

There, I said it.

I intentionally avoid these "my dad can beat up your dad" threads as they always get me in trouble. I want so badly to respond, but just bite my lip. I do need to make an important clarification. The SRO neither fled, nor did he behave cowardly. Deputy Gardner performed as a warrior should.

[Team Sergeant]

There is no similarity between the mission of the military and the task of the federal, state or local LE.

There is no LE vs. military just as there is no techniques, tactics or procedures, that are similar, none.

And yeah, I get a bit irritated when anyone brings up LE and military in the same paragraph.

I’ve also offered a bit of advice to the LE community as far as response to a critical situation, by placing a few federal, specially trained, teams every few hundred miles apart spread out across the United States. (Sort of what the US military does by having bases around the world, shortens our response time to any critical situation) It ain’t going to happen, we have too many Fed, state and local LE agencies that don’t work together in that area. Now if you want to question that last statement look no further than WACO. After the initial screw-up the FBI, IMO, should have taken over the situation and they did absolutely nothing.

CoLawman, I have my sources, you have yours, mine tell me the whole story was not told. I will go and have another look at all the evidence complied; I’m as not close-minded as some would think.

As to the original context of this thread, I guess ranger haney was incorrect.

TS

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

There is no LE vs. military just as there is no techniques, tactics or procedures, that are similar, none.

And yeah, I get a bit irritated when anyone brings up LE and military in the same paragraph.

TS

Stay safe.

[mdb23]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

1. There is no similarity between the mission of the military and the task of the federal, state or local LE.

2. There is no LE vs. military just as there is no techniques, tactics or procedures, that are similar, none.

3. And yeah, I get a bit irritated when anyone brings up LE and military in the same paragraph.

4. I’ve also offered a bit of advice to the LE community as far as response to a critical situation, by placing a few federal, specially trained, teams every few hundred miles apart spread out across the United States. (Sort of what the US military does by having bases around the world, shortens our response time to any critical situation)

5. It ain’t going to happen, we have too many Fed, state and local LE agencies that don’t work together in that area.

1. Agreed. But, once again, I can't see where anyone was arguing that there was.

2. I agree that there is no LE versus military (at least not from this end), but disagree with the latter part of your statement. There are a lot of guys on our tactical teams that were recently part of your teams. They bring with them them the techniques, tactics, etc that they leaned in SF, USMC Force Recon, NSW, etc. and incorporate them (when applicable) to the LE tactical mission. We all learn from that. There is a sharing of information that goes on, and stuff does "trickle down" to us. Doesn't mean our mission is the same, but you might be surprised at how many of "your" techniques for everything from clearing a room to taking down a bus or train ends up in "our" hands.

3. That's pretty apparent, but I have yet to figure out why. Nobody has said the LE is as good at this stuff as military CT units (we aren't), that we can do it better (we can't), or that we even want the freaking mission..... I actually said the exact opposite. However, we may be all that you have, depending on how fast everything goes down.

4. I agree. It's a great idea, but......

5. .... if this is true, then what's the point of talking about it?

Like I said, we know where we stand on this stuff, and are trying to get up to speed as quickly as possible. You can keep bringing up WACO, North Hollywood, and Columbine, but the fact remains that each of those instances was a "first" for us (LE), and we have attempted to adapt and learn from these lessons. A lot changes in 15 years.

We are much better armed and trained now. In North Hollywood, you had coppers with revolvers and 9mm handguns pitted against heavily armored (from head to toe) gunmen wielding high powered, fully automatic rifles with armor piercing rounds.... we learned from that, and now have patrol rifles of our own.

We learned that we can no longer "stage" at an incident like we did at Columbine, and our new training and techniques reflect that. 15 years ago, nobody was doing regular, dedicated force on force training in schools, hospitals, etc.... depts weren't obtaining maps, schematics, etc of all likely targets and setting up emergency action plans before shit happens...there wasn't inter agency coordination like there is now...none of this was in place at the time of Columbine. Now, at most large departments, it is routine business...

I have never claimed to be anything more than what I am.... we aren't Delta, DevGru, SAS, GSG9, etc..... we understand that... but not all of us are 400 pound range instructors, either. We are cops. We would prefer that you guys handle it, but you are too far away. Telling us how inferior we are isn't going to prove or help anything.

Different missions, but same team here guys..... we all want the kids to come home safe and the wives to be happy.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

mdb23:

I agree with what you had to say 100% I thought I said pretty much the same thing a couple of times; however, this was right to the point!

[CoLawman]

My favorite team is not the Broncos it is our United States Military. If I walked into a room full of celebs and SF.....I would want to spend time with America's true role models and heroes, America's warriors.

I recall a trip to Kaiserslautern as a young MP (1974). I saw two guys wearing the Green Beret, in the flesh! I had never seen one before! I can assure you I was completely star struck.

The Avalanche is not my favorite team. They are not deserving of adoration, but my other heroes are. The men and women manning the ramparts in our cities and counties. Even though I wear a uniform, I am in awe of those individuals who step up to serve in law enforcement.

Cops, soldiers, marines, and others in uniform are what makes America great. WE are the patriots. WE are select and elite. WE serve our country... BY CHOICE.

Columbine was law enforcement's hedgerows. SWAT is a concept that is a couple of decades old and is still evolving. The military has had centuries to perfect their trade.

What is important, is that you have law enforcement like Tripwire, MDB23, and myself who have confidence in law enforcement's ability to respond to the next Columbine and be successful. The lack of confidence in the law enforcement community would be cause for alarm.

A significant percent of the battle is mental. Confidence and arrogance brougt about by self assuredness and faith in your department is healthy and necessary.

There will be a Beslan in America. There is plenty of documentation that it is coming. Law enforcement is perparing for it. There will be no repeat of Columbine or Beslan. We will go to the sound of gunfire, as we always have. The difference is the mindset. 9/11 is an example of that mindset. How many police officers perished on that day? 72 gave all that day.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

CoLawman:

A great post! I agree with you on all points. We all learn from our mistakes.