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Old 06-22-2010, 10:37   #16
head
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I've read the RS article. Most of the damning statements were from his aides telling the reporter what their "Boss" had previously said about the politicians in charge of this war. Perhaps Gen. McChrystal thought that only he was on the record - either way, the article makes him look like a rogue general trying to bully Washington into adopting a failed strategy and, at the end, the author even hints that VP Biden had the right gameplan all along. I kinda feel bad for the General, but I scratch my head when trying to figure out what he must have been thinking to let this happen...

DubyaDubyaDubya.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:43   #17
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I've read the RS article. Most of the damning statements were from his aides telling the reporter what their "Boss" had previously said about the politicians in charge of this war. Perhaps Gen. McChrystal thought that only he was on the record - either way, the article makes him look like a rogue general trying to bully Washington into adopting a failed strategy and, at the end, the author even hints that VP Biden had the right gameplan all along. I kinda feel bad for the General, but I scratch my head when trying to figure out what he must have been thinking to let this happen...

DubyaDubyaDubya.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236
You know, maybe they let him sit around as an embed till the point where they started to think he was a potted plant or even a buddy?

Obviously, they said a lot of things that should not be said in front of a reporter. Surprisingly candid and unprofessional for McChrystal and his staff.

The real question at this point is whether Obama can afford to cut him away and put another guy in, increasing his buy-in to the success or failure of OEF. Does he want to own the problem any more than he already does?

We will soon see....

TR
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:57   #18
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You know, maybe they let him sit around as an embed till the point where they started to think he was a potted plant or even a buddy?

Obviously, they said a lot of things that should not be said in front of a reporter. Surprisingly candid and unprofessional for McChrystal and his staff.

The real question at this point is whether Obama can afford to cut him away and put another guy in, increasing his buy-in to the success or failure of OEF. Does he want to own the problem any more than he already does?

We will soon see....

TR
No question that the reporter is talented in gathering information... from the last people you would imagine - men, I assume, who have worked on the flipside of the coin.

If President Obama sticks with McChrystal, the reason for failure in Afghanistan will be percieved as the lack of support/cohesion from his subordinates, the POTUS' lack of leadership, and the POTUS will receive much of the blame for not replacing him.

However, if he replaces McChrystal, he will be able to cast more blame on McChrystal's strategy and it will also allow him to extend his impossible Jully 2011 deadline due to giving time for the replacement to implement whatever new vision is decided...
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Last edited by head; 06-22-2010 at 10:59. Reason: typo
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Old 06-22-2010, 14:28   #19
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What if Gates pulls the trigger? Will that insulate the WH and allow the President to fence sit?

The SecDef came out with comments today that included:

""I read with concern the profile piece on Gen. Stanley McChrystal in the upcoming edition of 'Rolling Stone' magazine. I believe that Gen. McChrystal made a significant mistake and exercised poor judgment in this case. We are fighting a war against al Qaeda and its extremist allies, who directly threaten the United States, Afghanistan, and our friends and allies around the world. Going forward, we must pursue this mission with a unity of purpose. Our troops and coalition partners are making extraordinary sacrifices on behalf of our security, and our singular focus must be on supporting them and succeeding in Afghanistan without such distractions. Gen. McChrystal has apologized to me and is similarly reaching out to others named in this article to apologize to them as well. I have recalled Gen. McChrystal to Washington to discuss this in person."
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Old 06-22-2010, 14:53   #20
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Amazing that this reporter could spend that much time with GEN McChrystal and his staff and still be so completely uninformed. Well, maybe not.
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Old 06-22-2010, 15:16   #21
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What if Gates pulls the trigger? Will that insulate the WH and allow the President to fence sit?

The SecDef came out with comments today that included:

""I read with concern the profile piece on Gen. Stanley McChrystal in the upcoming edition of 'Rolling Stone' magazine. I believe that Gen. McChrystal made a significant mistake and exercised poor judgment in this case. We are fighting a war against al Qaeda and its extremist allies, who directly threaten the United States, Afghanistan, and our friends and allies around the world. Going forward, we must pursue this mission with a unity of purpose. Our troops and coalition partners are making extraordinary sacrifices on behalf of our security, and our singular focus must be on supporting them and succeeding in Afghanistan without such distractions. Gen. McChrystal has apologized to me and is similarly reaching out to others named in this article to apologize to them as well. I have recalled Gen. McChrystal to Washington to discuss this in person."
That is a whopper of a statement by Gates. In most cases a speech like that from the Sec would activate the trap door and the General Officer referenced would be down the chute and out in the cold.
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Old 06-22-2010, 15:34   #22
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When I hear about the Gen'ls "staff", aren't we talking about senior O5's and O6s? Maybe an O7 thrown in for good measure...possibly Air Force or Marine or Navy Senior officers, maybe even Canadian or British "staff"? Are all these people politically illiterate? I have a problem beleving the Gen'l wasn't aware of the exchange. And furthermore, what's Rolling Stone magazine dong in A-stan anyway? What next? Road & Track? Good Housekeeping? Field & Stream?
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Old 06-22-2010, 15:56   #23
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But the big question is.....

were the statements true?

Don't see much chatter about that one.
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Old 06-22-2010, 16:06   #24
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Well Newsweek has decided he needs to go. And they're experts.
I guess that's all she wrote.

Source

Quote:
Why Military Code Demands McChrystal's Resignation

The most important issue at hand in the furor over Gen. Stanley McChrystal's acerbic comments in Rolling Stone is the central one in a democracy: civilian control over the military.

As upset as certain military officers have been with the Obama White House—as much as they like McChrystal's can-do spirit—this was a seriously can't-do moment. No one can quite believe that McChyrstal would be so stupid as to give this interview, which McChrystal himself this morning conceded in a statement was "bad judgment." One retired but informed military source I reached speculates that McChrystal will offer his resignation and President Obama is likely to accept it. I can't independently confirm this, but it sure sounds right to me. The only caveat is that Obama operates on his own timetable, not the media's. He will take his time and make a decision based on what he thinks is best for the overall effort in Afghanistan. He won't sack his commanding general unless he—with Defense Secretary Bob Gates's advice—thinks he is now more a liability than an asset to the war effort, which McChrystal himself described as a "bleeding ulcer."

View a gallery of the longest--and shortest--American wars.

The reason McChrystal must go is that this isn't his first time in trouble for talking out of school in a way that can fairly be described as insubordinate. Last fall, McChrystal gave a speech in London and afterward was asked if he could support the Biden Plan: fewer troops for Afghanistan, with a stepped-up use of Predator drones. He said "no." In other words, the commanding general in the region was saying that if the president sided with the vice president, he couldn't support the policy. Many in the White House last year viewed this as insubordination.

Obama met McChrystal on Air Force One on the tarmac in Copenhagen to discuss the incident. The president decided that McChrystal had been naive about the media and true blame lay with Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. As I recount in The Promise, Obama pushed back hard. He summoned Mullen to the Oval Office upon returning to Washington and dressed him down for allowing McChrystal to box him in—telling him he wanted that conduct changed "here and now." When I later asked the president if he had been jammed by the Pentagon, he replied, "I neither confirm nor deny that I was jammed by the Pentagon."

This time it's clearly not Mullen's fault, which is why he's not likely to be a McChrystal ally. He is more likely to view Gen. David Rodriguez (or perhaps another senior general) as a suitable replacement. Having been burned once by Stanley McChrystal, the president probably will not allow himself to be burned again. The military code—and American democratic traditions—all but demand that he accept the general's resignation of his command.
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Old 06-22-2010, 17:00   #25
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Damn.....Even the TB are now using it as an IO Win..........
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Old 06-22-2010, 17:01   #26
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[President] 'angry' after reading McChrystal's remarks

Source is here.
Quote:
Obama 'angry' after reading McChrystal's remarks
By the CNN Wire Staff
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* NEW:McChrystal has submitted resignation, Joe Klein says
* Gibbs says 'all options are on the table' in deciding McChrystal's fate
* Obama 'angry' after reading McChrystal story
* Rolling Stone article appears to show McChrystal as strongly critical of the administration

(CNN) -- President Barack Obama was "angry" after reading Gen. Stanley McChrystal's remarks about colleagues in a Rolling Stone article, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday.

McChrystal -- the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan -- has been recalled to Washington to explain his actions to the president. He is expected to meet with Obama in the Oval Office on Wednesday, Gibbs said. Gibbs refused to speculate about McChrystal's fate, but told reporters "all options are on the table."

McChrystal has already submitted his resignation, Time magazine's Joe Klein told CNN Tuesday, citing an unnamed source. CNN is working to confirm Klein's information.

The White House will have more to say after Wednesday's meeting, Gibbs said. He noted, however, that McChrystal did not take part in a teleconference Obama had with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and other top officials on Tuesday.

The "magnitude and graveness" of McChrystal's mistake in conducting the interview for the article were "profound," Gibbs said. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said McChrystal had "made a significant mistake and exercised poor judgment."

Several elected officials have strongly criticized McChrystal but deferred to the president on the politically sensitive question of whether the general should keep his position. A couple of key congressmen, however, have openly called for McChrystal's removal.

McChrystal apologized Tuesday for the profile, in which he and his staff appear to mock top civilian officials, including the vice president. Two defense officials said the general fired a press aide over the article, set to appear in Friday's edition of Rolling Stone.

"I extend my sincerest apology for this profile. It was a mistake reflecting poor judgment and should never have happened," McChrystal said in a Pentagon statement. "Throughout my career, I have lived by the principles of personal honor and professional integrity. What is reflected in this article falls far short of that standard."

In the profile, writer Michael Hastings writes that McChrystal and his staff had imagined ways of dismissing Vice President Joe Biden with a one-liner as they prepared for a question-and-answer session in Paris, France, in April. The general had grown tired of questions about Biden since earlier dismissing a counterterrorism strategy the vice president had offered.

"'Are you asking about Vice President Biden,' McChrystal says with a laugh. 'Who's that?'"

"'Biden?' suggests a top adviser. 'Did you say: Bite Me?'"

McChrystal does not directly criticize Obama in the article, but Hastings writes that the general and Obama "failed to connect" from the outset. Sources familiar with the meeting said McChrystal thought Obama looked "uncomfortable and intimidated" by the room full of top military officials, according to the article.

Later, McChrystal's first one-on-one meeting with Obama "was a 10-minute photo op," Hastings writes, quoting an adviser to McChrystal. "Obama clearly didn't know anything about him, who he was. Here's the guy who's going to run his f---ing war, but he didn't seem very engaged. The Boss (McChrystal) was disappointed."

The article goes on to paint McChrystal as a man who "has managed to piss off almost everyone with a stake in the conflict," including U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry, special representative to Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke and national security adviser Jim Jones. Obama is not named as one of McChrystal's "team of rivals."

Of Eikenberry, who railed against McChrystal's strategy in Afghanistan in a cable leaked to The New York Times in January, the general is quoted as saying, "'Here's one that covers his flank for the history books. Now if we fail, they can say, "I told you so.'"

Hastings writes in the profile that McChrystal has a "special skepticism" for Holbrooke, the official in charge of reintegrating Taliban members into Afghan society and the administration's point man for Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"At one point on his trip to Paris, McChrystal checks his BlackBerry, according to the article. 'Oh, not another e-mail from Holbrooke,' he groans. 'I don't even want to open it.' He clicks on the message and reads the salutation out loud, then stuffs the BlackBerry back in his pocket, not bothering to conceal his annoyance.

"'Make sure you don't get any of that on your leg,' an aide jokes, referring to the e-mail."

Both Democrats and Republicans have been strongly critical of McChrystal in the wake of the story. House Appropriations Committee chairman David Obey, D-Wisconsin, called McChrystal the latest in a "long list of reckless, renegade generals who haven't seemed to understand that their role is to implement policy, not design it."

McChrystal is "contemptuous" of civilian authority and has demonstrated "a bull-headed refusal to take other people's judgments into consideration."

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-North Dakota, became the first member of the Senate Democratic leadership to call for McChrystal to step down, telling CNN that the remarks were "unbelievably inappropriate and just can't be allowed to stand."

Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Carl Levin, D-Michigan, deferred to Obama on the question of a possible McChrystal resignation. He said the controversy was sending a message of "confusion" to troops in the field. I think it has "a negative effect" on the war effort, he said.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, urged a cooling off period before a final decision is rendered on the general. My "impression is that all of us would be best served by just backing off and staying cool and calm and not sort of succumbing to the normal Washington twitter about this for the next 24 hours."

Sens. John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Jim Webb of Virginia -- also key senators on defense and foreign policy issues -- were each strongly critical of McChrystal's remarks, but noted that the general's future is a decision for Obama to make.

Karzai weighed in from abroad, urging Obama to keep McChrystal as the U.S. commander in Afghanistan. The government in Kabul believes McChrystal is a man of strong integrity who has a strong understanding of the Afghan people and their culture, Karzai spokesman Waheed Omar said.

A U.S. military official said Tuesday that McChrystal has spoken to Biden, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Adm. Mike Mullen and other officials referenced in the story, including Holbrooke, Eikenberry and Jones.

An official at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul said Eikenberry and McChrystal "are both fully committed" to Obama's Afghan strategy and are working together to implement the plan. "We have seen the article and General McChrystal has already spoken to it," according to a statement from an embassy official, making reference to McChrystal's apology.

"I have enormous respect and admiration for President Obama and his national security team, and for the civilian leaders and troops fighting this war and I remain committed to ensuring its successful outcome," McChrystal said in the closing to his apology.

Rolling Stone executive editor Eric Bates, however, struck a less optimistic tone during an interview with CNN on Tuesday.

The comments made by McChrystal and other top military aides during the interview were "not off-the-cuff remarks," he said. They "knew what they were doing when they granted the access." The story shows "a deep division" and "war within the administration" over strategy in Afghanistan, he contended.

McChrystal and his staff "became aware" that the Rolling Stone article would be controversial before it was published, Hastings told CNN Tuesday. He said he "got word from (McChrystal's) staff ... that there was some concern" about possible fallout from the story.

Obama tapped McChrystal to head the U.S. military effort in Afghanistan in the spring of 2009 shortly after dismissing Gen. David McKiernan.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, Barbara Starr, Dana Bash and Alan Silverleib contributed to this report.
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Old 06-22-2010, 17:16   #27
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Lead story on the major news networks tonight - the 'fox' was apparently 'in the henhouse' for so long due to the Icelandic volcano's closing of the European airspace and he couldn't leave.

Here's the front page for tomorrow's Stars and Stripes.

McChrystal forces Obama into a no-win situation

President Barack Obama faces two grim choices on Wednesday: Fire Gen. Stanley McChrystal and risk looking like he’s lost control of the war in Afghanistan. Or keep him and risk looking like he’s lost control of his generals.

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-e...ation-1.108154

Could this Rolling Stone article be the real reason GEN Petraeus was stressed and fainted before Congress last week?

If McChrystal is releived/resigns - any thoughts on who'd be his replacement...or is this one of those situations like we used to experience whenever the Soviet Premiership changed hands?

And so it goes...

Richard
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Old 06-22-2010, 17:52   #28
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Lead story on the major news networks tonight - the 'fox' was apparently 'in the henhouse' for so long due to the Icelandic volcano's closing of the European airspace and he couldn't leave.

Here's the front page for tomorrow's Stars and Stripes.

McChrystal forces Obama into a no-win situation

President Barack Obama faces two grim choices on Wednesday: Fire Gen. Stanley McChrystal and risk looking like he’s lost control of the war in Afghanistan. Or keep him and risk looking like he’s lost control of his generals.

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-e...ation-1.108154

Could this Rolling Stone article be the real reason GEN Petraeus was stressed and fainted before Congress last week?

If McChrystal is releived/resigns - any thoughts on who'd be his replacement...or is this one of those situations like we used to experience whenever the Soviet Premiership changed hands?

And so it goes...

Richard
Frankly,. I would not have the Gen's job. I would refuse to work for this admin. That is me. Who wants to be the next Abrams?
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Old 06-22-2010, 19:27   #29
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were the statements true?

Don't see much chatter about that one.
If they are denied and called "misquotes" or "misinterpretations" that doesn't necessarily mean that they are not true. But, when no sort of rebuttal is offered, well that speaks volumes.
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Old 06-22-2010, 20:00   #30
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Every been in one of those "We won't let you quit and we aren't going to fire you" jobs?

Perhaps the General did not care to be the one to lower the American flag and depart IAW the "rigid timeline".

An exit strategy.



(this of course is a massive stretch)
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