Fallujah - Sunni Triangle

1235 GMT - Five non-U.S. soldiers with the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq were killed March 31 when a bomb exploded under their vehicle in al-Anbar province, west of Baghdad. In a separate incident, gunmen attacked two vehicles in Al Fallujah, killing at least two civilians. Crowds were seen dragging two burned and mutilated bodies through the streets of the town. In a third incident, at least 12 people were injured in a suspected car bomb attack in Baquba, north of Baghdad.

(from Stratfor).

[QRQ 30]

I heard a couple of interesting questions this morning concerninf the recent events:

1. Why do they do such things?
My answer: Because they don't like us very much.

2. How can we stop them?
My answer: Make them like us or exterminate them!!

[The Reaper]

From Fox News. Nine US deaths.

May be some buddies of ours.

RIP.

TR



Violence Strikes Iraq's Sunni Triangle

Wednesday, March 31, 2004

FALLUJAH, Iraq — The charred corpses of four coalition civilian contractors, all Americans, were pulled out of burning cars, dragged through the streets of Fallujah and hung from a bridge by rejoicing residents Wednesday. Five U.S. soldiers died in a separate bombing nearby.

Chanting "Fallujah is the graveyard of Americans," locals cheered during the grisly assault on two four-wheel-drive civilian vehicles, which left both in flames. Others chanted the more standard "We sacrifice our blood and souls for Islam."

The four contract workers were killed in a rebel ambush of their SUVs in Fallujah, a Sunni Triangle (search) city about 35 miles west of Baghdad.

The State Department is contacting the families of the victims. All four were men, said Sgt. 1st Class Lorraine Hill, a coalition spokeswoman.

Support for Saddam Hussein has always been strong in the area, and rebels often carry out attacks against American forces.

"It is not surprising that they are engaging in attacks as we increasingly make progress ... their strategic goal is to turn back the progress," Dan Senor, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, told reporters Wednesday. "Those aren't people we're interested in helping — those are people we have to capture or kill so this country can move forward."

In a separate incident in Malahma, 12 miles to the northwest of Fallujah, five 1st Infantry Division soldiers died when their M-113 armored personnel carrier ran over a bomb.

Also in Ramadi, a roadside bomb exploded near a U.S. convoy, witnesses said. U.S. officials in Baghdad could not confirm the attack.

On Tuesday in Ramadi, one U.S. soldier was killed and another wounded in a roadside bombing, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt.

"We condemn these attacks in strongest possible terms," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters in Washington Wednesday. "We mourn the loss of life."

"Iraqis are realizing freedom is on its way. As we move forward, obviously there will be those who want to stop the progress, but there's no turning back," McClellan continued.

"These former regime elements, these terrorists and others who are making trouble, will be dealt with and will be defeated," Secretary of State Colin Powell told reporters during a meeting with Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Wednesday.

"We regret the loss of any life and I express my condolences to the families of those who lost their lives to date," he added. "But those lives are lost in the cause of freedom and the Iraqi people will be free. It will happen."

Another 'Black Hawk Down'?

The brutal treatment of the four contractors' bodies was some of the most graphic violence since the beginning of the American occupation a year ago.

It was reminiscent of Somalia in 1993, where a mob dragged the corpse of a U.S. soldier through the streets of Mogadishu (search), eventually leading to the American and U.N. withdrawal from the failed East African state.

Associated Press Television News pictures showed one man beating a charred corpse with a metal pole. Others tied a yellow rope to a body, hooked it to a car and dragged it down the main street of town. Two blackened and mangled corpses were hung from a green iron bridge across the Euphrates.

"The people of Fallujah hanged some of the bodies on the old bridge like slaughtered sheep," resident Abdul Aziz Mohammed said. Some of the corpses were dismembered, he said.

Beneath the bodies, a man held a printed sign with a skull and crossbones and the phrase, "Fallujah is the cemetery for Americans."

"If you think of a gangster mentality, that is exactly how Iraq was ruled for the past 35 years. It was only recently that efforts have been made to free the country," said retired Navy Capt. Chuck Nash, calling former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein "the Al Capone of the 21st century."

"These people have the most to lose in a free Iraq because they have the most to gain under the gangsters," Nash said of the attackers in Fallujah. But "what we can't do is to ease off at this point. These people cannot gain from this activity."

APTN showed the charred remains of three slain men. Some were wearing flak jackets, said resident Safa Mohammedi.

One resident displayed what appeared to be dog tags taken from one body. Residents also said there were weapons in the targeted cars. APTN showed one American passport near a body and a U.S. Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

"Most of the people in Fallujah want to move on with their lives ... want to be part of a new Iraq. There's a small part of Fallujah that just doesn't get it," Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad Wednesday.

"They [attackers] have a view somehow that the harder they fight, the better chance they have" at restoring some of the pro-Saddam movement, Kimmitt continued.

Witnesses said the two SUVs were attacked with small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades.

Hours after the attack, the city was quiet. No U.S. troops or Iraqi police were seen in the area.

"It's a horrifying site ... it's brutal and terrible and reminds you of 'Black Hawk Down,'" retired Army Maj. Gen. Donald Edwards told Fox News, referring to the book and movie depicting the Mogadishu disaster. "I think it's a harsh reality that these people are very unpleasant people ... It's an area that's going to be a problem, I'm afraid, for a long time to come."

Asked whether the attacks would cause U.S. military servicemen and women to question their missions, Edwards replied: "This will only strengthen their resolution. They're not going to quit."

[Radar Rider]

Originally posted by QRQ 30
2. How can we stop them?
My answer: Make them like us or exterminate them!!

I don't think they'll be getting like us anytime soon. A few MOABs (or hell, even a nuke) in Fallujah might teach them bastards what the hell. This is unacceptable; they're are savages and need to be dealt with on their own terms!

[Smokin Joe]

RIP Gentlemen

[QRQ 30]

This is a case wherer "Hearts and Minds" means "Rip their hearts out and we'll control their minds."

I'm not a serious proponent of the "Scorched Earth" policy but believe this is one time we need to react quickly and violently. If we hurt some "neutrals" they will either join us or join the terrorists. Either way we'll know where they stand.

[The Reaper]

If that ever happens to me, I hope that when they see we are dead, and the crowd has us, they cut loose with an Apache (max load, 2.75" flechette) and Warthog clearance sale (GAU, CBU, and FAE mix) right down the middle of the street, and find some napalm to finish the job right.

Nothing better than showing up at the Gates with 500 bad guys you helped take out on the way.

There were no friends of the U.S. or anyone who is going to be converted in that crowd.

Hell's coming to dinner, now go get some payback.

TR

[D9 (RIP)]

I hope our response is forceful. And, it should be directed against the citizens of Fallujah at large, given the mob, rather than looking for the handful of individuals that did the original shooting. Unfortunately, from the interviews I have seen by CPA bureaucrats today, it sounds like they are sticking to the premise that this is just a few proverbial bad apples. I don't see how you can draw that conclusion rationally given what we all saw happen yesterday, but that appears to be the character of our response anyway.

It appears that on the premise that this is only a handful of "anti-democracy" types, we are going to proceed with a "surgical" response. But while the attackers may be the worst of the bunch, it should be clear that the general population of Fallujah needs to be taught a lesson.

Surgery may the right response to repair a wound on a person's foot if the tissue around the injury is not malignant with infection. But if the lower leg is consumed with gangreen, then the problem has to be dealt with more comprehensively. I think this is the appropriate lens through which to view a solution to the incident in Fallujah. Clearly, the general sentiment in that area is poisoned against our goals.

It's time to amputate. I would have no problem with laying seige to the city and shutting down every utility (water, power, etc) until every individual who participated in that animal mob and the attacks was hanging from the same bridge that our men were hanging from - or at least turned over to the American forces laying seige. Make Fallujah and example of the stick that will meet those who refuse the carrot.

[Sacamuelas]

I considered not typing a response to this one due to the raw emotions that all that frequent this site must be experiencing when viewing the results of yesterday's barbarism. I, too, experienced these feelings but I know my reaction cannot compare to some of you based on your backgrounds, personal relationships, and personal history with those directly involved in this mission and ones like it in the past.

IMO, The response should be focused only on the people that were responsible. Let me clarify quickly who I think that is before I upset to many of you. Anyone “at the scene� has contributed to this atrocity. Not just the actual participants in the ambush and subsequent attack, but also the relatively small % of the total population of the city that came out of their houses and celebrated the brutality. The punishment and retribution should be extreme, brutal, and definite.

That being said, I do not agree with the ideas that the entire town should be sanctioned/lay siege to it. That is exactly what the terrorists, extremists, etc want the US military to do in the wake of this tragedy. That is exactly why they tried to influence our foreign policy by their barbaric attempt to replicate the outcome in Somalia.

I think our military and the contractors still in the area responded very professionally by not simply rushing into the area with guns blazing once it was determined that the initial attack/disgusting follow-on brutality had already taken place and had dispersed before the adequate troops could arrive on scene to prevent or disrupt its occurrence. The time to do something was either rapidly(like TR's suggestion) while it was occurring (probably not logistically possible at the time for the current forces in the AO) or by waiting and performing subsequent surgical attacks and intelligence collection by "whatever means necessary" from the people in the video tape in the near future.
If our troops and/or contractors would have rushed into "the city" after the event was completely over, the scumbags would have already blended into the general population again and been using human shields/regular civilians.

It is much more effective to ensure their destruction by allowing our professionals to enter the AO and conduct operations against these swine on our operator’s terms and using the advantages our operators choose to utilize. The contract personnel in the area can perform this alone or with SF personnel and/or a joint effort.

I do not fault anyone for feeling more radical or extreme than my ideas on the topic. I just thought this viewpoint should be expressed into the thread.

RIP
Sympathy to the families and friends of those already lost while performing their duty in this honorable task ... and hopeful for absolute and swift justice/retribution for those that caused this atrocity.

[ktek01]

Originally posted by Sacamuelas

It is much more effective to ensure their destruction by allowing our professionals to enter the AO and conduct operations against these swine on our operator’s terms and using the advantages our operators choose to utilize. The contract personnel in the area can perform this alone or with SF personnel and/or a joint effort.

I think that should be a Military only mission, not a mission for contract workers. Contract workers play an important role with our downsized forces, and they are needed, but I wouldn't want to see us start using them for large scale direct action missions.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Anybody have an idea of what the population there is?

[Airbornelawyer]

Posted this on Socnet, might as well repeat it here:

Fallujah is a city of over 280,000. The core of the city is some 30 square kilometers. Taking it over will require planning and extensive resources. Unlike a lot of Middle Eastern cities, though, much of its roads and neighborhoods are laid out in grids, so cordoning is a little easier.

Here is a map of the city (the map is about 2 megabytes and 1350x2000 pixels in size)

[NousDefionsDoc]

Thanks for that. If you were General Kimmett, what would your response be?

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Anybody have an idea of what the population there is?

Several thousand more today than there needs to be.

Don't tell me we couldn't have made an air strike on that party while it was underway. They took several hours to finish.

The perpetrators, and those who are complicit, do not respond to the carrot, let us show them the stick, and make an example of them.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Of course we could Boss. If we wanted to, we could turn it into the world's largest roller-skating rink in a day. But that's not going to happen.

280k doesn't seem like a lot of people to deal with.