Arab Festival 2009

[Richard]

Based on my studies and personal experiences with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam - I remain pretty much in agreement with Mr Clemens' observations and musings on the subject.

Man is kind enough when he is not excited by religion. A Horse's Tale

Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes, and wishes he was certain. Notebook

We despise all reverences and all the objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our own list of sacred things. And yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us. Following the Equator

Alas! those good old days are gone, when a murderer could wipe the stain from his name and soothe his trouble to sleep simply by getting out his blocks and mortar and building an addition to a church. The Innocents Abroad

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste. The Lowest Animal

In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. Autobiography

Zeal and sincerity can carry a new religion further than any other missionary except fire and sword. Christian Science

A religion that comes of thought, and study, and deliberate conviction, sticks best. The revivalized convert who is scared in the direction of heaven because he sees hell yawn suddenly behind him, not only regains confidence when his scare is over, but is ashamed of himself for being scared, and often becomes more hopelessly and malignantly wicked than he was before. Letter Alta California

We don't cut up when mad men are bred by the old legitimate regular stock religions, but we can't allow wildcat religions to indulge in such disastrous experiments. The New Wildcat Religion

Richard's $.02

[Richard]

Question:

What was the basis for our good ol' American documents?

A: Western Philosophical Thought and its influence upon our so-callled Founding Fathers - writings of philosophers and political philosophers such as John Locke's 17th century views on social contract theory, natural law, and limited government - which were echoed by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence.

17th century John Locke:

The state of nature has a Law of Nature to govern it, which obliges everyone, and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions.

18th century Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

And that became the basis for many parts of the US Constitution - such as the 1st Amendment:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt1.html

Richard's $.02

[freelander]

I concur with Richard. Some argue that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were derived from the Bible. Not true. Although many of the values are similar, secular humanity had many of the principles down before Christ. See the Romans and Greeks. I am not saying that the Bible did not influence the founding fathers, just simply that it wasn't the only influence.

There is a trend among all faiths to attribute philosophical acumen to religion. This conclusion needs to be thorougly thought out and explained before it can be justified. Typing from my iPhone, I will say that I personally believe that human acomplishment and divine scripture are not so incompatible. With a discerning eye we can see that they often go hand in hand. It is only when we lean too far to one end do we have problems.

My dad always said: God gave you a brain... Use it!

Cheers.

[Defend]

After watching the tape, I have a few thoughts - although I am coming from it with my perspective as a citizen, my view as a citizen is rooted in my beliefs as a die-hard "fundamentalist" (read conservative evangelical) Christian.

As far as Christians influencing the Islamic world, abroad and at home, there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it. Below are some bullet point observations.

- The booth was looking to convert. Anybody uninterested in converting would by default not be welcome.

- The guy who seemed to be the "interviewer" for the Christians could have gone about this in a much more culturally sensitive way. Think PSYOP, not politically correct. The cross on his neck? maybe. The necklace and the shirt? It was for show.

- The security guards seemed to be normal volunteer security. They over reacted to a perceived threat. They let emotions run hot.

- The ladies behind the cameras did not seem well suited for the job. They were aggressive and ready to passively dominate, such as when they kept repeating over and over "That is assault. In America that is assault. This is America".

- If I were one of the Muslims in this situation, the entire incident would have tarnished my view of Christians and Christianity. From first hand experience, Christians are portrayed as aggressive, insensitive, conniving operators with anything but Muslims best interest in mind. An encounter such as this would cement that idea in my mind.

My conclusion is that much more harm that good will come out of this incident. It can easily be used to promote the Islamic attitude towards Christians. It gives a bad rap to Christians in general.

Now, is there a right way to achieve the outcome they claimed to have (ask questions and get answers)? I say yes.

- If the interviewer spoke Arabic, he should have made his introductions and gotten permission to film in Arabic.

- The group should have been up front about their objectives. Hopefully their objectives were to help the average American Christian gain a better understanding of the "Islamic" attitude towards terror, and to accurately portray said attitude in the finished product they were turning out.

- The cameras should have been on tripods, in a stationary position. You can't intimidate a camera into moving, and you can't claim to be threatened by a stationary object.

- Camera operators should have been small framed women. Small framed women are much harder to portray as a threat or intimidate than any other gender/body type. Honest to goodness I saw this in cross-examination a hundred times. Guys make asses of themselves when they try to use power tactics on a doll. Doing so would only have cemented the stereotype that Muslim men disrespect women.

- If the Muslim group still refused to cooperate, cut your losses and move on. No need to make a scene. A simple statement later can make the point. "such and such a booth refused to take questions on camera." Would have left a better image of the Acts 17 Apologetics group in my mind.

If your goal is to cause a confrontation, don't do it in the name of Christianity. If your goal is to win hearts and minds for the glory of God, more power to you.

-Out

[Richard]

Homebase is here -

Answering Muslims - The Islamoblog of Acts 17 Apologetics Ministries
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/

Richard's $.02

[sg1987]

I wonder if these guys had a recruiting tent at the Festival?

They produce some fine graduates.

Coalition Fights Expansion of Islamic Saudi Academy in Virginia

A holy war is brewing in Virginia, where a controversial Islamic school is seeking permission to expand its campus and a group of residents is going all out to stop it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

[Richard]

I wonder if these guys had a recruiting tent at the Festival?
They produce some fine graduates.

As do many schools internationally - even SWC has produced some stellar grads we can all be proud of.

Interesting school - doesn't quite look as if it's a madrasah of the sort we've seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

http://www.saudiacademy.net/2008AboutISA.html

Richard's $.02

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Richard

As do many schools internationally - even SWC has produced some stellar grads we can all be proud of.

Interesting school - doesn't quite look as if it's a madrasah of the sort we've seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

http://www.saudiacademy.net/2008AboutISA.html

Richard's $.02

Come on now.....
Infiltrate, assimilate, gather Intel and then strike with non threatening unknowns. Know your enemy before you can fight and defeat your enemy.

The do not look like Madrasah's in Pakistan or Afghanistan as that would stand out too much. I am not saying that they are bad but I can say that they are a person of interest............

These guys learn and adapt to try to blend in. Shoot they know that running around in the US with rags on your head and a long beard with a bad 7-11 accent will get you secondary in the line. So they cut them off, drink alcohol and dress like the locals to fit in. Hummmmmm ever heard of any one dong that?

[SF-TX]

A lawsuit has been filed by the Thomas More Law Center (TMLC) in response to police action against Acts 17 Apologetics members at the 2010 Dearborn, Michigan International Arab American Festival. The press release from the TMLC:

February 22, 2011

Sharia in the U.S.A.: Christians Jailed for Preaching to Muslims--Dearborn, MI Officials Sued

People - David Wood arrest (with caption)The Thomas More Law Center (TMLC) announced today that the City of Dearborn, its Mayor, John B. O’Reilly, its Chief of Police, Ronald Haddad, 17 City police officers, and two executives of the American Arab Chamber of Commerce were named as defendants in a ninety-six page federal civil rights lawsuit filed in the Federal District Court in Detroit this morning.

The lawsuit, brought by TMLC and co-counsel and Sharia law expert, David Yerushalmi, stems from two separate police actions at the June 2010 Dearborn, Michigan Annual International Arab Festival.

Richard Thompson, TMLC President and Chief Counsel, commented, “Muslims dominate the political and law enforcement process in Dearborn. It seems that police were more interested in placating the Mayor and Muslims than obeying our Constitution. Sharia law makes it a crime to preach the Gospel to Muslims. This is a classic example of stealth Jihad being waged right here in America. And it should be a wake-up call for all patriotic Americans.”

The first incident occurred on June 18, when police jailed four Christian missionaries when they witnessed Dr. Nabeel Qureshi, a Muslim convert to Christianity, peaceably discussing his Christian faith with Muslim youths. The other three, David Wood, Paul Rezkalla, and Negeen Mayel, were arrested along with Qureshi for allegedly “breaching the peace.” The Christians were led away in handcuffs by police to the applause and cheers of Muslim onlookers who just witnessed a victory of Sharia law over the Christians.

Watch Video of Arrest

The second incident occurred on June 20, as two missionaries, Rezkalla and Josh Hogg, stood on the public sidewalk handing out the Gospel of John to passersby willing to take them. The Christians were there for approximately 5 minutes when eight City police officers descended upon them, seized them, and brought them to the police command trailer located inside the festival where the Christians were admonished, photographed, and ordered to stop their peaceful religious activity.

Watch Video of Police Seizure

The police assaults and arrests of the Christians, captured on video, caused a national furor over the lawless tactics of the City’s police department.
Dearborn is considered home to the largest Muslim population in America. As a result, it is evident that City officials, including the Mayor, engaged in this unconstitutional official action solely to please this significant voting bloc and to submit to its will.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Acts 17 Apologetics, Dr. Nabeel Qureshi, David Wood, Paul Rezkalla, Negeen Mayel and Josh Hogg.

Read the Law Center’s Federal Complaint here

Robert Muise, TMLC’s Senior Trial Counsel who is handling the matter, stated, “While the videos of the police violating the fundamental constitutional rights of our clients are utterly shocking, it is perhaps even more shocking that City officials, including the Mayor, would engage in a propaganda campaign to smear the good reputation of these Christians even after they were acquitted by a jury of the bogus criminal charges. All of this is strong evidence of the fact that Sharia is negatively influencing the City and its officials.”

Link

[SF-TX]

The City of Dearborn has agreed to a settlement of the lawsuit filed on behalf of Acts 17 Apologetics.

Detroit, Michigan (May 6, 2013) — After more than two years of intense motion practice and discovery, the City of Dearborn has agreed to enter into a settlement that includes a public apology for arresting several Christian missionaries who were peacefully preaching to Muslims at the Dearborn Arab International Festival in 2010...

Source