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Old 05-14-2007, 16:42   #16
Pete
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Serbia

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Originally Posted by jjames83
(continued)....But there is a way to win this conflict. Although unresolved, the Serbian conflict has stabilized......
The Serbian conflict has not stabilized.

That whole area is still fighting a war that was "over" hundreds of years ago.

The USSR thought they had things stabilized and sat on the region for about 40 years. People were born, grew up, married and grew to middle age while the USSR had things stabilized. As soon as the lid was off it exploded again.

To blame this on one boogie man and say things are "stabilized" now is to just sit around and wait for the pot to boil over again. These people hate, hate deep down and through the generations from one to the next. To these people it's all or nothing.

It's hard for Americans to understand just how deep "land" and "relations" (family, blood, religion & tribe) are in the Balkins, Middle East and Africa. The average American sees Arabs, Blacks and in the Balkins, Europeans. These groups can place each other by the way they dress, act and talk. To them it will never be over until they have it all.
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Old 05-14-2007, 17:40   #17
jjames83
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so what happens next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
The Serbian conflict has not stabilized.

That whole area is still fighting a war that was "over" hundreds of years ago.

The USSR thought they had things stabilized and sat on the region for about 40 years. People were born, grew up, married and grew to middle age while the USSR had things stabilized. As soon as the lid was off it exploded again.

To blame this on one boogie man and say things are "stabilized" now is to just sit around and wait for the pot to boil over again. These people hate, hate deep down and through the generations from one to the next. To these people it's all or nothing.

It's hard for Americans to understand just how deep "land" and "relations" (family, blood, religion & tribe) are in the Balkins, Middle East and Africa. The average American sees Arabs, Blacks and in the Balkins, Europeans. These groups can place each other by the way they dress, act and talk. To them it will never be over until they have it all.
Lets say I agree with you. What is our next move?

Disclaimer: This isn't meant as an challenge, or instigation. I would simply like to understand your perspective better.
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Old 05-14-2007, 19:02   #18
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Our move?

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Originally Posted by jjames83
Lets say I agree with you. What is our next move?
Oh, you can disagree with me all you want. It don't upset me any at all.

Our only move is to try and contain this mess as long as we can. Go read, or re-read, the "Are We at War With Islam" thread.

Just my opinion now but I think the UN is a waste of time and money. It's an Anti-American platform for dictators, bottomless money pit and a blight on NY, NY. Any number of problems can be traced right to their doorstep and all they do is kick the trash to the curb. Need I say Oil for Food program?

I liked the "with us or against us" bit. I think we should inform all countries that "You stand with us or you don't get even one more skinny dime from us." I'm getting as bit worn out by the "Here's some money, please be nice. Ok, Ok, that was bad but here's some more money, please be nice" routine.


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Old 05-14-2007, 20:46   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete

I'm getting as bit worn out by the "Here's some money, please be nice. Ok, Ok, that was bad but here's some more money, please be nice" routine.


Pete
Why should I be nice when your giving me free stuff ?

I was thinking if maybe I act like I can't take care of myself you will give me more handout's "UMMMMMM your hand looks tasty... if I bite your hand I will still save face with the rest of the Lower Life Forms
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Old 05-14-2007, 22:39   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Just my opinion now but I think the UN is a waste of time and money. It's an Anti-American platform for dictators, bottomless money pit and a blight on NY, NY. Any number of problems can be traced right to their doorstep and all they do is kick the trash to the curb. Need I say Oil for Food program?
Not just your opinion, I share the same. They even tell us that we aren't giving them enough money. When they take to a military action, they bitch about us not helping out. We still do and we still get the shit end of the stick. When we take to a military action, they don't do a damn thing. The UN angers me so much. Good idea on paper - bad implementation.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:22   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper

The Turks will go crazy if the Kurds get an independent state.

TR

They have a history of that:

http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/chro.e.html
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Old 05-19-2007, 13:14   #22
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Everyone, thanks for your responses.

I didn’t want it to seem that I opened this thread and then abandoned it, but summer classes started this past week, so I have been away from the internet for the most part. But, seriously, I love the perspective that y’all bring to this thread. I am learning things here that, for various reasons, don’t get taught at my University; not so much of a knock on my school as it is a compliment towards y’all for being so open with relating your real world experiences to my book-taught education.

With that being said, I will re-read this thread more critically when I get a little extra time and see if I can contribute. If not then, again, I thank you for the knowledge shared.

On a side note, someone mentioned that I should read “Clash of the Civilizations.” This is not the first time this has been suggested to me. In fact, I have heard it so much that I will certainly have to check it out. I am currently taking two classes (Globalization and Comparative Religions: Judaism and Islam) that may have subject matter related to this thread. I got lucky and picked outstanding professors for both these classes it seems, so it will be interesting to see if their teaching sheds any different light on everything mentioned here.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:17   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjames83
It's amazing how quickly we forget the lessons from the past.
It seems many have forgotten the wretched history of war in the Middle East. If we paid a little more attention to what happened in history, we might find a bit more understanding in the roots of radical Islam. GI Joe says it best..."Knowing is half the battle"
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:25   #24
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Turkey already wants to involve itself in Iraq against the Kurds. They have expressed interest in crossing the border into the north and engage the Kurdish "revolutionaries"(for lack of a better or more PC term) who cross back and fourth from Turkey to Iraq causing trouble. The US doesn't want this since the Kurds are looked at as allies, but doesn't want to upset Turkey since military basses there are an asset.

The Kurds are painted as the tragic heros of Iraq, but don't forget- Ansar al Sunna, one of the premier Iraqi insurgent groups, has a very large Sunni-Kurdish involvement. As for Arab-Kurd relations, the Kurds aren't neccessarily trying to co-exist either. No one really wants a part of anyone else.

Maybe full blown civil war is needed to bring stability to the region. It worked for the US. After our Civil War, we reunited stronger than ever and haven't faultered since. However, in Iraq we'd see the Sunni Arab vs Shia Arab war, the Arab vs Kurd war, and maybe even fighting between the different Kurdish groups like Yazidi vs Muslim. The days of the great islamic states, I believe, are over. There will never be another Ottoman Empire, Persian Empire, Almohad Caliphate, or Egyptian state under Saladin. No more unity, just grumbling over technicalities.

Maybe we could destroy all military assets in the Islamic countries and leave them with horses, camels, swords, and text books. The Beduoins, Persians, Turks, etc could begin disputes for the land all over again and try to do it better this time with history as a guide. Then when things are looking up, 1st Group could come marching across the Steppes with a Mongol Horde- just to make things interesting.

Last edited by KSC; 06-17-2007 at 02:27.
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:47   #25
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Kurds move-up in Turkey?

New Turkish parliament sworn in

Kurdish MPs are in the chamber for the first time since 1991
Turkey has sworn in a new parliament with attention focusing on 20 pro-Kurdish deputies, represented for the first time since 1991.
The new deputies say they want reconciliation and a peaceful solution to the Turkish-Kurdish conflict, which has claimed 30,000 lives since 1983.

The last Kurdish MPs to be elected were jailed for taking their oath in Kurdish but this time they spoke Turkish.

Their party was later banned for its alleged links to the PKK rebel group.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6930915.stm
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Old 09-02-2007, 15:55   #26
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I remember reading in the recent "iran shells northern iraq," media that Iran had made a deal with Turkey to fight PKK/Kurdish Militias for Turkey agreeing to fight certain anti Iranian groups in Iraq. someting like this http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=120792
You fight anti iranians and we will fight anti turks.

The facts that Kurds want to take parts of Iraq and Turkey to make Kurdistan would be a big problem since there is oil in that area and neither Iraq's central government, especially the sunnis, and Turkey want to lose the oil or money that comes from it.

And were you guys talking about the articles of confederation vs the u.s. constitution pertaining to there being nothing wrong with the US before states' rights were usurped?
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