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Old 01-23-2014, 17:41   #631
Javadrinker
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Originally Posted by PSM View Post
Well, you "nullification" guys must have no problem with what O and Holder are doing, then. How about what CA, NY, and IL will do if we ever get control back? In fact, lib judges use nullification every day. Prop 8 in CA, voted in by the "people", was tossed by a judge. Why have laws? Heck, why have a constitution if you are just going to ignore the parts you don't like?

Pat
I'm confused, we still have Our Constitution? Oh! My bad you are talking about one those documents that are under glass in the National Archives.
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Old 01-23-2014, 20:32   #632
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I'm confused, we still have Our Constitution? Oh! My bad you are talking about one those documents that are under glass in the National Archives.

You know, the one written by the old, dead white guys...........
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:39   #633
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Look up the New States Constitution.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:05   #634
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Originally Posted by PSM View Post
Well, you "nullification" guys must have no problem with what O and Holder are doing, then. How about what CA, NY, and IL will do if we ever get control back? In fact, lib judges use nullification every day. Prop 8 in CA, voted in by the "people", was tossed by a judge. Why have laws? Heck, why have a constitution if you are just going to ignore the parts you don't like?

Pat
I'll quote part of email that an constitutional attorney sent to me.

Quote:
Considering the root problem corrupting the Republic, we need to give Citizens the truth about their rights and their "public servants' " duties. Truth delayed is truth denied.

We can ill afford allowing the citizens to be misinformed about the reality of "nullification" and to be encouraged to support bills that allow the governments and the state and local officers under oath to support the Constitution to shirk their obligations.

The Constitution is not a smorgasbord that we or our public servants get to pick and choose from. The oath to support the Constitution requires the Constitution be followed in its entirety, every time in every situation.

The attitude that we can restore the Constitution and the Republic by supporting parts of it and conceding parts of it or ignoring parts of it is an immoral violation of one's oath to support the Constitution. It is like negotiating with cannibals on how much of you they are going to eat for dinner. You will always come out on the short end of that deal.

For the sake of Liberty,

Richard D. Fry
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Revitalizing the Second Amendment(RT2A
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Old 01-24-2014, 22:02   #635
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I'll quote part of email that an constitutional attorney sent to me.


I’ve read the email you posted several times and I can’t really tell which side of the nullification issue he comes down.

Now this Publius Huldah person, who is she? I can’t find a real name for her. Her bio on her blog:

Quote:
Lawyer, philosopher & logician. Strict constructionist of the U.S. Constitution. Passionate about The Federalist Papers(Alexander Hamilton, James Madison & John Jay), restoring constitutional government, The Bible, the writings of Ayn Rand, & the following:
There is no such thing as Jew & Greek, slave & freeman, male & female, black person & white person; for we are all one person in Christ Jesus.
OK, fine. So, a “strict constructionist” is saying that we need to ignore a provision of the Constitution that may help solve the problems we face to solve those problems? Where is nullification mentioned in the Constitution?

I’m not against nullification, per se. When we moved here to SE AZ, after the Monument Fire, Tombstone’s aqueduct from the Huachuca Mountains had been damaged and they needed to repair it. The Feds said that they could only repair it using the methods that were used to build it in the 1800s. At the time, Sheriff Dever was still alive and I felt that he should have challenged (nullification of law or policy), with a posse if necessary, the Forrest Service and allowed the repairs to the water system for a city in his county. He did not and local citizens went up with shovels and sidearms to repair it.

That said, why is she throwing out the Constitutional provision rather than adopting both options? The Constitutional provision is explained, and amendments offered, in Mark Levin’s book. He started The Landmark LegalFoundation in 1976 fighting against abuses of the Constitution and worked in the Reagan Administration. Publius Huldah has done what, exactly?

Quote:
…for we are all one person in Christ Jesus.
I'm sure Mr. Levin would love to know that.

This guy does a pretty good job of saying what I wanted to: http://www.redstate.com/roguepolitic...ntion-process/

In the end, both courses are probably a fool’s errand. Then what?

Pat
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:54   #636
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I’ve read the email you posted several times and I can’t really tell which side of the nullification issue he comes down.

Now this Publius Huldah person, who is she? I can’t find a real name for her. Her bio on her blog:



OK, fine. So, a “strict constructionist” is saying that we need to ignore a provision of the Constitution that may help solve the problems we face to solve those problems? Where is nullification mentioned in the Constitution?

I’m not against nullification, per se. When we moved here to SE AZ, after the Monument Fire, Tombstone’s aqueduct from the Huachuca Mountains had been damaged and they needed to repair it. The Feds said that they could only repair it using the methods that were used to build it in the 1800s. At the time, Sheriff Dever was still alive and I felt that he should have challenged (nullification of law or policy), with a posse if necessary, the Forrest Service and allowed the repairs to the water system for a city in his county. He did not and local citizens went up with shovels and sidearms to repair it.

That said, why is she throwing out the Constitutional provision rather than adopting both options? The Constitutional provision is explained, and amendments offered, in Mark Levin’s book. He started The Landmark LegalFoundation in 1976 fighting against abuses of the Constitution and worked in the Reagan Administration. Publius Huldah has done what, exactly?



I'm sure Mr. Levin would love to know that.

This guy does a pretty good job of saying what I wanted to: http://www.redstate.com/roguepolitic...ntion-process/

In the end, both courses are probably a fool’s errand. Then what?

Pat
Quote:
Now this Publius Huldah person, who is she?
I asked Richard Fry that question. His answer is the name is a, quoted "Her pseudonym is Publius Huldah. Publius is the pseudonym for Madison and Hamilton in the Federalist papers and Huldah is prophet mentioned in 2 Kings 22, and 2 Chronicles 34. " Sorry if that doesn't help.

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Where is nullification mentioned in the Constitution?
Not being an attorney, I'd say most of this is found in the 10th Amendment.

"Michael Boldin is the founder and leader of the TAC, a national group. He is the number-one spokesperson on behalf of TAC. Boldin believes he and TAC are the leading entity and spokesperson educating and promoting "state nullification".

Quote:
The Legal Basis for Nullification

First, "nullification" as espoused by Jefferson in the Kentucky Resolution of 1798 is in fact constitutionally based. Jefferson said of it:
“. . . whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force..."

So in Jefferson's view nullification is predicated on an unconstitutional act, i.e., an act outside the general government's enumerated authority as delineated in the Constitution. Madison also had this belief.

Another way to say "unauthoritative, void, and of no force" is to say "null," which legally speaking means “having no legal validity.”

Five years later, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the same principle in a formal holding. Chief Justice John Marshall said for the Court:

"... a law repugnant to the Constitution is void...."

Chief Justice Marshall made it clear that this was a general principle of constitutional law, not just of the U.S. Constitution. Marshall did rely upon specific language in the Constitution as part of the Court's support for this holding. Marshall noted:

"It is also not entirely unworthy of observation that, in declaring what shall be the supreme law of the land, the Constitution itself is first mentioned, and not the laws of the United States generally, but those only which shall be made in pursuance of the Constitution, have that rank." (Emphasis added.)

Marshall was quoting Article VI clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution also known as the Supremacy Clause. Subsequently the Court in addressing unconstitutional enactments has stated:

"An unconstitutional law is void, and is as no law. An offence created by it is not a crime. A conviction under it is not merely erroneous, but is illegal and void, and cannot be a legal cause of imprisonment."
Ex parte Siebold, 100 U.S. 371,376-77 (1879)

"An unconstitutional act is not a law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; it affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation as inoperative as though it had never been passed."
Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 426 (1886)

These cases tell us that an unconstitutional enactment is ipso facto (by that fact itself) null and void, and not enforceable.

I like your story about rebuilding the dam. Maybe some nullify effects in that The People took care of business.

To make this more a layman's term, I'd say nullification is that which the government, state, local cannot enforce because those laws are not ethical or not moral as to the Oath we all took when held up our right hand. I think also part of this is the pledge of allegiance to the Flag of the United States. Just my thoughts.

Our rights are from our Creator not the government.

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In the end, both courses are probably a fool’s errand. Then what?
As an SF soldier you would rather the enemy die for his country than you die for yours!
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Old 01-27-2014, 17:54   #637
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"the Forrest Service and allowed the repairs to the water system for a city in his county. He did not and local citizens went up with shovels and sidearms to repair it."

True American spirit...

The fed land managers in southern az are a good bunch too. Let me drive deep into one of the wilderness areas down their once to track a bad lion.
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Old 01-27-2014, 23:13   #638
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"the Forrest Service and allowed the repairs to the water system for a city in his county. He did not and local citizens went up with shovels and sidearms to repair it."

True American spirit...

The fed land managers in southern az are a good bunch too. Let me drive deep into one of the wilderness areas down their once to track a bad lion.
To be honest, the sidearms were not to intimidate the FS personal. It's pretty much daily wear wherever you go here and defiantly when going into wilderness areas. Then again...

Pat
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Old 01-28-2014, 01:20   #639
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To be honest, the sidearms were not to intimidate the FS personal. It's pretty much daily wear wherever you go here and defiantly when going into wilderness areas. Then again...
Pat
I believe you, there are some Bob Munden(rip) types here that need special single actions. Actually getting in the market pretty soon myself for a 3 1/2 birds head - mine broke in Montana (blew up - nice scar on left side of face too) - don't have a few thousand to spend on a new one yet - gettin' alittle out of practice %^#. A good single can shoot faster than a 1911 - for me two at a time - Munden types scary fast. Good for critters

Love Arizona!

Crap ten of the Worlds best shooter's are in New River alone - Whoever said don't mess with Texas?
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Old 01-28-2014, 20:36   #640
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As an SF soldier you would rather the enemy die for his country than you die for yours!
I missed this the first time. I am not, and was not, SF. But, as a former Soldier, I agree.

Pat
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Old 02-03-2014, 18:26   #641
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Printz v US may prove to be quite significant.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/sb1294p.pdf

This bill has teeth:
Quote:
D. ANY AGENT OR EMPLOYEE OF THIS STATE OR ANY POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES THIS SECTION IS DEEMED TO HAVE RESIGNED ANY COMMISSION FROM THIS STATE THAT THE PERSON MAY POSSESS, THE PERSON'S OFFICE IS DEEMED VACANT AND THE PERSON IS FOREVER AFTER INELIGIBLE TO HOLD ANY OFFICE OF TRUST, HONOR OR EMOLUMENT UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS STATE.
E. ANY PERSON OR CORPORATION THAT PROVIDES SERVICES TO OR ON BEHALF OF THIS STATE AND THAT VIOLATES THIS SECTION IS FOREVER INELIGIBLE TO ACT ON BEHALF OF, OR PROVIDE SERVICES TO, THIS STATE OR ANY POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE.
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Old 02-13-2014, 16:44   #642
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Officials in Connecticut Stunned by What Could Be a Massive, State-Wide Act of ‘Civil Disobedience’ by Gun Owners

On Jan. 1, 2014, tens of thousands of defiant gun owners seemingly made the choice not to register their semi-automatic rifles with the state of Connecticut as required by a hastily-passed gun control law. By possessing unregistered so-called “assault rifles,” they all technically became guilty of committing Class D felonies overnight.


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Old 02-13-2014, 17:39   #643
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California ban on concealed weapons overturned by 9th Circuit appeals court

California ban on concealed weapons overturned by 9th Circuit appeals court

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By Paul Elias, Associated Press
POSTED: 02/13/14, 12:25 PM PST | UPDATED: 56 SECS AGO

SAN FRANCISCO — A divided federal appeals court has struck down California’s concealed weapons rules, saying they violate the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Thursday that California is wrong to require applicants to show good cause to receive a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The court ruled that all law-abiding citizens are entitled to carry concealed weapons outside the home for self-defense purposes.

The divided three-judge panel disagreed with two other federal appeals courts that have upheld permit rules similar to California’s.

The U.S. Supreme Court often takes cases when federal appeals courts issue conflicting rulings.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that law-abiding citizens can keep handguns in the home for self-defense purposes, but didn’t address whether that right extends outside the home.

http://www.dailynews.com/government-...-appeals-court
Did hell freeze over and I missed it?

Pat
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Old 02-13-2014, 18:12   #644
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Did hell freeze over
Interesting...it must have

The Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that law-abiding citizens can keep handguns in the home for self-defense purposes, but didn’t address whether that right extends outside the home.

Morons! 'Bear' means: (of a person) carry. bring, transport, move, convey, take, fetch, deliver, tote, lug...pretty straight forward to a dumb ass like myself.


Do they really need the Supreme Court to figure that out
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Last edited by badshot; 02-13-2014 at 18:16. Reason: straight forward/color as per standard
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Old 02-13-2014, 18:12   #645
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California ban on concealed weapons overturned by 9th Circuit appeals court

Did hell freeze over and I missed it?

Pat
Sorry, I'm a pessimist; especially WRT the 9th Circuit. We live in troubled times and this does not follow the established pattern. Given that it conflicts with two other Federal Circuit decisions it might be a strategy to force the Supreme Court to review the case law. That concerns me.
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