How to Decrease Taxes.

[Ockham's Razor]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Ah, here's the crux of your problem. You think this country is great because of the government.

Greenhat and I (and Ronald Reagan and probably TR) think this country is great in spite of the government.

Great! You called in the wild card and now all I have are jokers for a hand. This is not how the game is supposed to be played. I have absolutely no support and am fighting a losing battle here.

Yet, I am not going to give on this issue. I have given on almost every other issue, on this I absolutely refuse to.

You are telling me that we have become the nation that we are completely aside from the government we created? Wow. I have never heard that perspective before. I thought we won the cold war on the diplomatic and manufacturing front, on many fronts, in such a way that no one issue can be pointed to for winning, in that the system we set up worked to defeat it. That system would be the United States Government.

Agree or disagree, the State department, the intelligence arms, and the DoD won the day. Last I checked all of these are governmental arms paid for by the taxes of the citizens. Am I not correct in this inference?

Are you suggesting that Susie Q at the local soda shop won the Cold War, or the organised effort she funded with the taxes she paid, because what you suggest is otherwise.

I find it amazing that you even attempt to make the argument that it was not the government that defeated the terror that was the cold war. I make such an inferende based on the fact that you seem to downplay the significance of our government in the creation of the reality that we enjoy today.

The United States Government, as bloated and disorganised as it is, remains the greatest entity on Earth simply because it has, collectively, ensured the security and freedom of our nation from those whom seek us harm and ill-will. Nothing is perfect. 9/11 happend. OKC happend. Many other things have happend. Yet, we are the greatest nation on the face of the Earth, and you are suggesting that it has absolutely nothing to do with our governmental structure? I find this amazing. We would have acheived all of our heights without our form of government? How is that even possible?

If that were the case, then why are we trying to export our form of government?

[Ockham's Razor]

After a lengthy discussion with a fellow member, I would like to submit a possible truce. Can we agree on a National Sales Tax and disagree on the flat payroll tax?

Submitted with respect to all parties.

A national sales tax and the elimination of the income tax? Absolutely. Much more in holding with the Constitution as originally written and far easier to enforce.

[QRQ 30]

NAH!! More money will go to Thailand.

The question was: "How can we reduce taxes?"

It doesn't really matter what you call it or how you collect it , or from whom, income must meet expenses. There can be no reduction in taxes without reduction in spending.

My "inaccurate and invavid" analogy stands: "Taxes are like a bladder. You may reduce them at one point but they will increase at another point, unless we reduce spending."

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Ockham's Razor
Great! You called in the wild card and now all I have are jokers for a hand. This is not how the game is supposed to be played. I have absolutely no support and am fighting a losing battle here.

Yet, I am not going to give on this issue. I have given on almost every other issue, on this I absolutely refuse to.

You are telling me that we have become the nation that we are completely aside from the government we created? Wow. I have never heard that perspective before. I thought we won the cold war on the diplomatic and manufacturing front, on many fronts, in such a way that no one issue can be pointed to for winning, in that the system we set up worked to defeat it. That system would be the United States Government.

Agree or disagree, the State department, the intelligence arms, and the DoD won the day. Last I checked all of these are governmental arms paid for by the taxes of the citizens. Am I not correct in this inference?

Are you suggesting that Susie Q at the local soda shop won the Cold War, or the organised effort she funded with the taxes she paid, because what you suggest is otherwise.

I find it amazing that you even attempt to make the argument that it was not the government that defeated the terror that was the cold war. I make such an inferende based on the fact that you seem to downplay the significance of our government in the creation of the reality that we enjoy today.

The United States Government, as bloated and disorganised as it is, remains the greatest entity on Earth simply because it has, collectively, ensured the security and freedom of our nation from those whom seek us harm and ill-will. Nothing is perfect. 9/11 happend. OKC happend. Many other things have happend. Yet, we are the greatest nation on the face of the Earth, and you are suggesting that it has absolutely nothing to do with our governmental structure? I find this amazing. We would have acheived all of our heights without our form of government? How is that even possible?

If that were the case, then why are we trying to export our form of government?

You really need to do some historical reading. Start with the Federalist Papers.

The government was an experiment. If it failed, initially, or ever, the intent of the Founders was that a revolt would remove the oppressive government and establish a different form more responsive to The People.

The Government does none of the things you mentioned above. American citizens, with citizen money, did all of the great things you cite, at the behest of The People.

The U.S. Government is an instrumentality of the American People and should function as an extension of their wills. When it doesn't act in that manner, for the good of The People, it should be changed.

The American People could recreate a new government. The Government could not create a new American People.

TR

[QRQ 30]

Alright folks: It's pistols at 20 paces.

Who was it that said that the only sure things in life were "Death and Taxes"?

I'm going out and mow the lawn with my taxed mower which runs on highly taxed gasoline.

Originally posted by QRQ 30
Alright folks: It's pistols at 20 paces.

Who was it that said that the only sure things in life were "Death and Taxes"?

I'm going out and mow the lawn with my taxed mower which runs on highly taxed gasoline.

Ben Franklin

http://www.taxfoundation.org/ff/zerotaxfilers.html

[QRQ 30]

There are so many more taxes and my premise still stands. Federal Income tax is replaced by other taxws. Below is just a small examole of these taxes in Georgia. Did you ever buy tires ir batteries lately and notice the fee (tax) you pay for the disposal of the old?

National and local taxes are in effect in Georgia.

The following are included in National taxes:

Income Tax;
Company Profit Tax;
Value-added Tax (VAT)
Excise
Property tax
Land tax;
Tax on Ownership of Motor Vehicles;
Tax on transfer of Property;
Social Security Tax;
Tax on Use of Natural Resources;
Tax on Pollution of the Environment with Harmful Substances;
Tax on Entering Motor Vehicles onto the Territory of Georgia and Being Overloaded.

The following are the Local taxes:

Tax on Business Activity;
Tax on Gambling Business;
Resort Tax;
Hotel Tax;
Advertisement Tax;
Local Symbols Use Tax.

[Para]

Originally posted by Intruder
While I was a student making under $12k/yr I paid roughly 10% total income tax. "Joe Richguy" making $500k was paying roughly 40%. Where does the "fairly even" part come in?

Because you make the assumption that the $500k is gross income and not adjusted income. For instance, and I am going to make my explination simplistic, I take $100k and purchase a $1 million dollar apartment complex on a 10% down payment non-owner occupied loan. This apartment complex has 20 units valued at $50k per unit. With todays interest rates I am paying $7.50 per $1000 borrowed for Principle, Interest, Taxes, and Insurance (PITI).

My monthly payment is $6,750.
My monthly rents are $10,000 (if completely full).
Positive cash flow is $3,250, over 12 month's for $39,000.

But as this is a business, the IRS allows me to depreciate my assets over the usable life-span of the item. For real estate that is 15 years. For this apartment complex, the appraised value is $1,000,000, $900,000 for the building and $100,000 for the land. So for my first year, I take an asset deduction of 6.66667% of the asset (the building) of $60,000. I have just effectively showed the IRS a loss of $21,000 while actually earning $39,000 for the year. And this is just the start.

Now consider this while I am at it. You just made $39,000 from your $100,000, a 39% return on your investment. It was all tax free making your return all that much better, because you would have been taxed if that money was realized in the stock market, but here its tax-free. On top of that, you have loss against your other income. Now add the fact that your real estate just appreciated in value at a rate dependant upon the market that it was in, Fayetteville (6 to 7%), Seattle (10%), Tampa Bay (15%). Take Seattle, that 10% is not on the $100,000 investment, but the $1,000,000 purchase. Therefore, the property appreciated $100,000 on your $100,000 investment, a 100% return.

When I have more time I will actually read this whole thread.

[Valhal]

What's wrong with working hard and striving to be filthy rich? Most multi-millionaires not only pay more in taxes they also give substantial amounts to charity. Yes it offers a tax credit, but it is also, I would say, altruistic.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Valhal
What's wrong with working hard and striving to be filthy rich?

I like you. You need to post more. LOL

Originally posted by QRQ 30
There are so many more taxes and my premise still stands. Federal Income tax is replaced by other taxws. Below is just a small examole of these taxes in Georgia. Did you ever buy tires ir batteries lately and notice the fee (tax) you pay for the disposal of the old?

So move out of Georgia.

Originally posted by Para
Because you make the assumption that the $500k is gross income and not adjusted income.

What people do with their money should be their choice, not based on what will provide the best tax shelter.

[QRQ 30]

Originally posted by Greenhat
So move out of Georgia.

I don't live there!! It just happened to be th first state that popedf up in a Google search.

Seeing as I draw a huge disability checfk of $1199/month I don't pay income tax. But they get what little money I do have in other ways.