Wuhan Coronavirus

[scooter]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

I don’t object to pharmaceutical companies developing life-saving medications.
I object to the privatization of profits and socialization of losses.

If the vaccine is now FDA approved, and the doses developed before approval are identical, then legally classify them all as the same thing.
Of course, this means full legal liability for all the batches manufactured before and after approval.

Having skin in the game will go a long way towards engendering trust.

I can get behind all of that. There's plenty of AAR'ing to be done on the public health policies that various governments tried, and I think that government at all levels got more wrong than they got right.

Once all of the vaccines are fully FDA approved I think you'll see 1) elimination of liability protections and a similar legal structure surrounding other medications, 2) health insurance companies refusing to cover COVID-related medical costs for unvaccinated customers, and 3) schools/workplaces requiring COVID vaccination alongside the other mandatory ones like Polio, Measles, varicella, etc.

There's a lot of positions that the conservative media space have taken that are, in my estimation, essentially correct. Opposition to mandatory mask usage, lockdowns, rent moratoriums, and generalized social control all have strong grounding in the evidence. These things do more harm than good.

The vaccines do far more good than harm. That's also really, really clear when you look at it objectively. The article linked above state that there have been 600,000 cases of side effects from the Vaccine. Let's say that's true. With 164 million people fully vaccinated in the US, at two doses a person, that's a side effect rate of 0.18%. That means it's hundreds of times safer than Asprin.

Do I think people should be held down on a gurney and forcibly jabbed? Hell no. Are the vaccines part of a far-reaching conspiracy to destroy our way of life and essentially dangerous in any real way? Hell no.

A lot of liberal media outlets banded together to amplify pandemic hysteria in a way that was designed to injure Donald Trump. A lot of conservative media are doing the same thing right now with regard to the vaccine (designed by Trump's Warp Speed program...), probably for the same type of motivation.

I support anyone's right to make your own medical decisions. But get your medical information from a doctor and not Tucker Carlson.

[Badger52]

I think everyone, even without knowing the term, needs to run their own CARVER matrix. From 2 otherwise healthy seniors who just don't want either to be hospitalized, so mitigating symptoms with a vaccine to a bad cold is a risk worth taking, to a young couple who really just want to have a couple of kids they raise to be good citizens who don't want to take any chance at the miscarriage game.

Small odds are one thing, until they collide with someone's "what's a catastrophic consequence in your book?" Everyone's got to sweep their own house.

The Government's problem is they lost the street creds to conduct a marketing program a long time ago, for a variety of reasons not specific to a vaccine. They have to a large extent lost the trust of the citizenry.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by scooter

The vaccines do far more good than harm. That's also really, really clear when you look at it objectively. The article linked above state that there have been 600,000 cases of side effects from the Vaccine. Let's say that's true. With 164 million people fully vaccinated in the US, at two doses a person, that's a side effect rate of 0.18%. That means it's hundreds of times safer than Asprin.

Do I think people should be held down on a gurney and forcibly jabbed? Hell no. Are the vaccines part of a far-reaching conspiracy to destroy our way of life and essentially dangerous in any real way? Hell no.

I support anyone's right to make your own medical decisions. But get your medical information from a doctor and not Tucker Carlson.

I also object to the fear-mongering and social pressuring techniques.
Transparency of data would be nice.

What is the actual risk to a healthy person (healthy weight, not hypertensive, no other comorbidities) under the age of 50?
Under the age of 35?
Under the age of 18?

The vaccine apparently doesn’t prevent transmission.
If the risk is low enough for a particular demographic, why are they pressured to vaccinate?

The government and media have no business meddling in the medical decisions of individuals.
And that’s the irksome part of the messaging: Individuals are somehow responsible for the health of the collective.

Really?
Why don’t people take responsibility for their own health?

Diseases happen. Natural disasters happen. Accidents happen.
Be as healthy as you can be and you’re more likely to survive.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

I also object to the fear-mongering and social pressuring techniques.
Transparency of data would be nice.

What is the actual risk to a healthy person (healthy weight, not hypertensive, no other comorbidities) under the age of 50?
Under the age of 35?
Under the age of 18?

The vaccine apparently doesn’t prevent transmission.
If the risk is low enough for a particular demographic, why are they pressured to vaccinate?

The government and media have no business meddling in the medical decisions of individuals.
And that’s the irksome part of the messaging: Individuals are somehow responsible for the health of the collective.

Really?
Why don’t people take responsibility for their own health?

Diseases happen. Natural disasters happen. Accidents happen.
Be as healthy as you can be and you’re more likely to survive.

Agreed, on almost all fronts.

Vaccination does lessen the rate of transmission and catching the virus, just less so for the delta variant. Based on data and my surgeon’s personal observations (works in an ER for fun in his off time), the people getting admitted to the ICU for COVID are all unvaccinated. So while the vaccines aren’t as effective in preventing delta variant infection, they’re almost 100 percent effective in preventing serious illness. The powers that be have failed, massively, in communicating that. I don’t know why.

Otherwise I think we agree. Those pushing vaccination as a collective health measure are wrong, in my humble opinion. But I also think those demonizing the vaccine itself are wrong. It works as intended. Whether you get it or not should be your choice.

[Box]

I'm still scouring the internet for a source that has provided consistent and reliable data that wasn't later found to be intentionally misleading or flat out wrong.
...nor have I found a professional organization that has come forward and copped to posting bad info or at least tried to explain why their data was “wrong”.

So: here is a list of my current truths...

COVID-19 is a communicable disease
...so are influenza, smallpox, ebola, HIV, yellow fever, anthrax, and several others

COVID-19 attacks certain segments of the populace with FATAL results...
...so does influenza, smallpox, ebola, HIV, yellow fever, anthrax, and several others

The “science” of vaccines has a proven track record of preventing certain diseases from infecting and possibly even killing the host.
Sometimes those same vaccines are what kills the host.
...because, “science”

Pretty much every Soldier, Sailor, Marine. and Airman in last 100 years has been ordered to accept some sort of vaccination unless there is a formal exemption of some sort. (devout religious beliefs or allergies)

People are well within their rights to complain about mandatory vaccinations or the threat that COVID vaccination may be required for entry into certain countries.
Yellow fever vaccination may be required for entry into certain countries.

The COVID vaccine is not the first controversial vaccine that I have dared to cause me harm. My immune system laughs as such foolishness...
-HepA in the mid 1990's: for a disease with a mortality rate of 0.015% in the general population.
-Anthrax in the late 1990s when fatality rates were reportedly as high as 90%
-COVID with its 99% survival rate and its deadly vaccine that only kills a tiny percentage of a percentage point.

-Politicians are very well positioned to benefit from an ongoing COVID panic.

-The same pharmaceutical companies that have been demonized for generations for thier ill guided pursuit of profit are now in bed with the politicians that have been attacking them for generations.

-Facts and information as well as opinions about both have become valuable political commodities that play a key role in keeping the population divided and distracted

Opinions dont have to be binary - mine arent

I fear none of these facts.

We ALL die.
Most of us have spilled coffee in our lap at some point
The chances of one of us dying BECAUSE we spilled coffee in our lap is the tiniest of a fraction of a percent and yet, there are 81 million voters that are convinced that the new guy is going to save us by having us all get a shot that has a near zero percentage chance of killing the general populace so that we are vaccinated from a disease that has a near zero percentage of killing the general populace.
If COVID gets me - its not because of a vaccine developed by a supervillain or because some yet unspecified variant took on universal superpowers – it will be because my system was insufficiently prepared to fight off an external contaminant.

The people you should fear are the ones that try to use “science” to fear you into compliance. The same science that doesn’t seem to protect vaccinated people from getting COVID.
Oddly, the same demographic that seemed most likely to die from it WITHOUT being vaccinated.

Don’t be afraid.
There are no monsters in your closet (skeletons - maybe - but that's on you).
There is no murderous stuffed clown with long arms hiding under your bed waiting to strangle you.
The government is the only bogey man you need to fear.
Those people that are comforted more by a false sense of security than a solid anchor point to reality are the ones you should be afraid of.
The weak minded that refuse to accept that this entire situation might be more complex than just an apocalyptic virus released by a bad president with an unacceptable social media habit.
They are the ones that will report you for not masking.
They are the ones that will continue to believe EVERYTHING they are told.
They are the ones that will refuse to accept any possibility that could have been caused by a nefarious group of people tampering with nature for profit without considering the consequences of their money grab.
They are the ones that will continue to vote for those people because they think it is the virtuous thing to do.

Live your lives – be happy – be well.

That is all...

[Old Dog New Trick]

Whole post should be on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

Bravo!

[rsdengler]

Originally Posted by Box

There is no murderous stuffed clown with long arms hiding under your bed waiting to strangle you.

Ummmm....You sure about that?

[7624U]

Originally Posted by rsdengler

Ummmm....You sure about that?

Don't let clowns serve you coffee or you could be in trouble
https://yowzers.com/ccdata/images/smallMain_30_347.jpg

[RCummings]

Well said as always Box. Over the years this forum has always been a place that I can read other opinions. I have not always agreed with some but they are exactly what I need to see. I miss those that have passed or no longer write and provide the necessary counterpoint. Thank you Scooter for providing your input even though some guest took issue.

Very respectfully,

Bob

[RCummings]

An interesting video from a Doctor. I understand that this is just a view from one person. His explanation of what happens was easy for me to understand. Like all things I do not agree with everything. Link below:

https://www.yout**e.com/watch?v=tUE5EBPt-lU&t=664s

[Box]

Originally Posted by rsdengler

Ummmm....You sure about that?

Well, I am "pretty sure" - but just to be on the safe side - I wouldn't look under your bed unless you have someone on speed dial to rescue you in the event that I am wrong.

[rsdengler]

Originally Posted by 7624U

Don't let clowns serve you coffee or you could be in trouble
https://yowzers.com/ccdata/images/smallMain_30_347.jpg

Originally Posted by Box

Well, I am "pretty sure" - but just to be on the safe side - I wouldn't look under your bed unless you have someone on speed dial to rescue you in the event that I am wrong.

Ugggh...I really dislike clowns...

[7624U]

Originally Posted by rsdengler

Ugggh...I really dislike clowns...

Thats the problem we all have it is only clowns to vote for!! Clown A. or Clown B.
But still Clowns.

And this has lead us down this path of disinformation (Social Media) and distrust of the Gov't all in the name of protection of the Freak show that won't give out the real numbers for this Virus infection and death rate's.

Would be nice to actually have an accurate Threat/Risk assessment of the Virus instead of the sky is falling from Fauci little.

Or getting the real Vaccine Death numbers from each Manufacture and risk factors would be a better option. Instead of blanket Vaccine propaganda.

It has started to move the needle a little in my mind like (Scooter) said all the vaccines do prevent most of the Hospitalizations, But does not stop transmissions.

All the numbers I have crunched over the past few months from state reporting of infections and deaths only used (TN) because that is where I live.

Point to 2-3% of people that contract this strain will be hospitalized because of three main factors 1. Vaccination 2. Underlying Conditions 3. Shitty Health to begin with IE Obese.

We are sitting right at 1.3% chance of death in this state currently from Data.
(Could be lower or higher because of testing or none testing don't know)

(My Opinion)

Once in the Hospital your chances actually get worst to survive, and I think this has to do with all the virus that is lingering in the Hospital and close contact with high virus loads from the newly infected spreading to the recovering people. This has happened to a few people that I know of while being weened off of Oxygen. looks like they are recovering then boom dead a week later.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by 7624U

Once in the Hospital your chances actually get worst to survive, and I think this has to do with all the virus that is lingering in the Hospital and close contact with high virus loads from the newly infected spreading to the recovering people. This has happened to a few people that I know of while being weened off of Oxygen. looks like they are recovering then boom dead a week later.

Our family doc told me recently while chewing the fat on this subject (we're in a Mayo system area) he & others in our clinic down the road are routinely referring folks who have mild or moderate symptoms for the Monoclonal Antibody treatment (aka "Regeneron cocktail") because they have often seen mild symptoms dissipate but then 10 days to 2 wks later come roaring back to cause a hospitalization. The MA treatment attacks in a different way and is used to avoid this follow-on problem - it's specifically designed, as you point out, to keep people OUT of the bug-factory of a hospital setting in the first place.

This is the regimen Trump was given, and the system DeSantis is trying to get propagated around Florida. To the public it seemed to be a new-fangled thing when Trump got it but I talked to a gal I know works over at our local infusion clinic who often is the one giving my wife blood when she's a quart low, and she's like "Pffft, Mayo's done like 7,000 of these things, the results are great. It's literally a small bag, takes 20 minutes & then we keep you for an hour to make sure you don't explode (laughter)."

Doc also mentioned it obviates the need (so far) for this perpetual subscription of boosters that seem to be getting talked about.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by Badger52

...are routinely referring folks who have mild or moderate symptoms for the Monoclonal Antibody treatment (aka "Regeneron cocktail") because they have often seen mild symptoms dissipate but then 10 days to 2 wks later come roaring back to cause a hospitalization. The MA treatment attacks in a different way and is used to avoid this follow-on problem - it's specifically designed, as you point out, to keep people OUT of the bug-factory of a hospital setting in the first place....

I am strangely surprised that the MA treatment isn't discussed more than it is. We've recently had two people in our office get COVID, plus family members, of the 4 that were diagnosed, two were candidates for the treatment and had excellent results. Several hospitals in our area will not do the treatment but several outlying clinics will.