08-25-2013, 14:08
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 264
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Water Navigation
I'm sure that there are people who do offshore fishing or spend time in large bodies of water that may benefit from this. I realized my lack of skill in maritime navigation very quickly. Does anyone have any pointers in navigating on the water, or just how not to get lost?
Had a great adventure this weekend, and figured someone could learn from it.
Went out jet skiing in a party of 14 with 1 pontoon boat and 2 jet skis on Lake Norman NC. This wonderful lake has 600 miles of shore line and is 18 miles long, you really do need to see a map to appreciate it...
Took one of the jet skis out with another fellow in our group, whom I had just met, away from the shoal where everyone was out just to take a cruise and see how fast they would go. Left the cove that we were in into the main part of the lake. Noting that there were power lines and taking a rough bearing with my compass, of a smoke stack that we could see when we got out. After gallivanting about we decide to head back and realize we are disoriented, taking his direction we ride away.
30 minutes later I realize we're hopelessly lost and he hasn't come to that conclusion yet. We stop and take inventory of what we had on hand, an Iphone that we did not have the password to and no map, stop at a random boat and find we're 5-6 miles away from where we started. While I am on this boat he answers a phone call on the phone for someone looking for the owner, and then hangs up... Which I find out about later. Let him drive and go 5-6 miles past where we wanted to go... Eventually stopping at a total of 6 random compassionate people, some of whom had gotten lost on this lake before.
Finally we make it back to our group and our safety is ensured. At this point I learn that he lost his glasses and couldn't really see, but somehow wouldn't mention that while we were lost. One thing that was done right was not getting into a fight on a jet ski in the middle of a lake when lost. I am also thankful that it did not turn into a survival situation.
Lessons I have learned,
1. My wrist compass has become demagnetized.
2. Ensure that you have a map/GPS in a waterproof container.
3. Ensure possession of a phone/radio in a waterproof case
4. Beware/be aware of your company
__________________
You can change what you are and where you are by changing what you put into your life. -Zig Ziglar
"Nothing is more dangerous than an NCO or Officer who has been taught a technique or method, but doesn't understand the underlying principles or the "why" behind it." -MtnGoat
"How can someone improve their ability to lead? Die to self.
The most rewarding thing a leader will receive is having someone place their life in your hands and say, I will follow you." -SGT Gary Beikirch
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Toaster is offline
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08-25-2013, 19:51
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,162
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Only two suggestions in case comms go out and GPS isn't working:
1- Panic Azimuth or Catching Feature:
If I get totally lost, I'll travel [East, setting sun at my back] [West, towards setting sun]
... until I ...
[come to the bridge]
[see the lighthouse]
[see the landing lights at XXX airport]
2 - Rally Point: "If all else fails, I'll meet you at [5:00 pm] [sunset] at ...
[the bridge]
[the beach across from the lighthouse]
[the beach across from the landing lights at XXX airport].
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CSB is offline
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08-25-2013, 20:19
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Just above the flood plain in Southern Texas
Posts: 3,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster
Does anyone have any pointers in navigating on the water, or just how not to get lost?
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Hmm. Always know where you've been and are now, before proceeding further into trouble.
Stop, turn off everything that makes noise and listen intently for human sounds or machinery (or surf). Sometimes that may take several minutes.
From your starting point, note the position of the sun (as noted above) or the moon (although less dependable) and able to find "Polaris" (North Star) if you are out after dusk.
Without a very good understanding of Over the Horizon navigation it's best to have a good GPS and a waypoint that shows how to return to start point.
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You only live once; live well. Have no regrets when the end happens!
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” (Sir Edmund Burke)
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Old Dog New Trick is offline
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08-25-2013, 20:40
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,944
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When I got my first ocean boat, the closest thing to GPS was LORAN, which I couldn't afford. I used a chart, a compass, my speedometer and a watch to navigate out to 60 miles off-shore. I also had an RDF(Radio Direction Finder) in my radio. Always made it back.
Last edited by mark46th; 08-30-2013 at 08:23.
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mark46th is offline
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08-25-2013, 22:14
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark46th
I also had an RDF(Radio Direction Finder) in my radio.
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Yep. Carry an old analog transistor radio. Tune it to a known local AM station and turn it (the internal antenna) until you find the null (silent) direction. That points TO and FROM the transmitter. It's up to you to know "roughly" where you are in relation to that station so you can figure out which is which. If you still have no clue, at least you can listen to music and reports of your disappearance while you pray for help. Proper Pre-Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
ETA: Use analog because, if the station is close or too powerful, you need to be able to de-tune it to find the null.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
Last edited by PSM; 08-26-2013 at 00:01.
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PSM is offline
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08-25-2013, 22:35
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#6
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BFE PA
Posts: 449
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Can't help much with navigation on the water, but something that might have helped you in this situation is to know that you can make calls on an Iphone without knowing the password.
Iphone's allow you to use call features like a regular phone even if its locked you just can't see the phones contacts.
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Vincit qui se vincit
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fng13 is offline
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08-25-2013, 23:52
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#7
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Area Commander
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Carolina in the rainforest,4000' along the Eastern Cont. Div.
Posts: 1,427
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Time and speed is a good way to keep track of distance on water or an alternate method on land. When speed varies you can keep track ( similar to azimuth changes ) or average with practice. Bracket your navigation with landmarks and boundaries rather than pin point location ie. miss left or right, West or East, North or South, etc... That way you will know which way to head once you get to a boundary instead of having to guess which way to go ( if you are off your mark ). Know terrain before you operate in it (map or experienced knowledge). Elevation and contour is some times more effective than compass in dense terrain. Tips from Adventure Racing...
__________________
"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband
Essayons
By Dand
"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart
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Golf1echo is offline
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08-26-2013, 12:24
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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Good thing we don't have to use the old sextants any more. Kind of amazing how those guys did so much without our modern technology
__________________
"And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay
"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"Well Mr. Carpetbagger. We got something in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."
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craigepo is offline
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08-29-2013, 10:28
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 264
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Thank you
Thank you everyone for the input. Proper prior planning is what I will ensure that I do henceforth.
FNG13 - I am not sure you are correct on that. I could have called 911 or some other emergency call, but regular phone numbers I haven't been able to make. I could have called the police, but my ego prevented me from doing that.
Craigpo - Due to my ignorance, I am finding it difficult to fathom ye olde schoole celestial navigation.
There is a system on the lake, in the main channel, towards the shore every mile there is a number, red on one side and green on the other to help with people from getting lost.... Proper prior planning yet again.
I am thankful that it was a beautiful day giving me a sunburn, rather than a cold stormy one placing me in a survival situation.
__________________
You can change what you are and where you are by changing what you put into your life. -Zig Ziglar
"Nothing is more dangerous than an NCO or Officer who has been taught a technique or method, but doesn't understand the underlying principles or the "why" behind it." -MtnGoat
"How can someone improve their ability to lead? Die to self.
The most rewarding thing a leader will receive is having someone place their life in your hands and say, I will follow you." -SGT Gary Beikirch
Last edited by Toaster; 08-29-2013 at 10:30.
Reason: Adding picture
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Toaster is offline
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08-29-2013, 17:59
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#10
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BFE PA
Posts: 449
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You are correct only emergency numbers.
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Vincit qui se vincit
Last edited by fng13; 08-29-2013 at 21:05.
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fng13 is offline
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08-29-2013, 22:21
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster
Thank you everyone for the input. Proper prior planning is what I will ensure that I do henceforth.
FNG13 - I am not sure you are correct on that. I could have called 911 or some other emergency call, but regular phone numbers I haven't been able to make. I could have called the police, but my ego prevented me from doing that.
Craigpo - Due to my ignorance, I am finding it difficult to fathom ye olde schoole celestial navigation.
There is a system on the lake, in the main channel, towards the shore every mile there is a number, red on one side and green on the other to help with people from getting lost.... Proper prior planning yet again.
I am thankful that it was a beautiful day giving me a sunburn, rather than a cold stormy one placing me in a survival situation.
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I have to say that I've never navigated anything nearly that complicated! I'm used to open ocean, so I could use some tips on water nav too, it seems.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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08-30-2013, 07:16
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#12
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Area Commander
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Carolina in the rainforest,4000' along the Eastern Cont. Div.
Posts: 1,427
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Kingfisher Maps
http://www.kfmaps.com/
These are the lake maps of That area I prefer. With lake levels changing throughout the season you can almost use them as contour maps. They are available at many bait shops near the lakes. They also helped support our adventure race for SOWF.
__________________
"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband
Essayons
By Dand
"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart
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Golf1echo is offline
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08-30-2013, 08:33
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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We fish some pretty big lakes here in the southern Missouri/northern Arkansas area, i.e. 700 miles of shoreline. During the day, it isn't too hard to find your way back, especially with the Corps-installed mile markers. At night, it's almost impossible.
I have a compass mounted on my boat, and try to keep a map of every lake I fish. However, a few years ago, I broke down and bought a fishing graph with a GPS unit built in. For a few extra dollars, you can buy an SD card with maps of 1/2 of the United States, and so when you turn the unit on, it automatically plots your spot on the map. Might be a little tough to do on a jet ski.
My old team medic was into obscure stuff. When he started sailing, he wanted to learn how to really navigate on open water. So, he went and learned how to use the sextant. I have to say, the damned things are accurate, but you need to be really capable with them before trusting your life to one.
__________________
"And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay
"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"Well Mr. Carpetbagger. We got something in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."
Josey Wales
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craigepo is offline
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01-30-2015, 08:45
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#14
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 859
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I'm about to acquire my first boat, and have just started studying small craft operations, water navigation, etc. Has much changed in technological advancement as far as marine GPS' or any advice on a good spotlight for use during night operation?
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"1000 days of evasion are better than one day in captivity"
"Too many men work on parts of things. Doing a job to completion, satisfies me."- Richard Proenneke
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BryanK is offline
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01-30-2015, 10:33
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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You can get some pretty good gps/fish finders for not a lot of money. The downloadable maps on SD cards are really cheap insurance, and many have underwater topography on them that is super helpful for a lot of fishing, diving, etc.
I think I purchased my small Hummingbird for $500-ish, but you can pay as much as you want. Some friends have them with screens the size of a computer monitor, and these units come with options like side-imaging radar. If you're fishing deep, they work really well. Plus, navigating with the big screen is much easier than the 4" X 5" on my little model.
What kind of boat are you getting?
__________________
"And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay
"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"Well Mr. Carpetbagger. We got something in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."
Josey Wales
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craigepo is offline
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