Tattoo on an 18A wannabe...

[Peregrino]

FWIW - SF is changing (again ). Within 3-5 years I expect door kicking (a very simple mission set that doesn't require much tact, discretion, or low profile attitudes) to be out of style. So get whatever tats you want (don't forget to concentrate on learning 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62 - no need to study pesky, headache inducing, CAT IV languages). MOO - Tats make it a lot easier to screen candidates for interesting missions. (Interesting is a VERY imprecise parameter! )

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Flame Magnet

I would hate to be told something like that...I'm just going to go to the "Q" course give a 110% and we will see from there. I already had a tattoo removed and it hurt more than the tattoo and looks worse than when the tattoo was there.

Yeah, but it looked so COOL when you got it!

Agreed that life is about decisions, and that they have consequences.

TR

[CDG]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

FWIW - SF is changing (again ). Within 3-5 years I expect door kicking (a very simple mission set that doesn't require much tact, discretion, or low profile attitudes) to be out of style.

Why do you think this? Do you mean it will be out of style in general, or specifically in Special Forces? I ask this as a genuine question, not a challenge to your opinion.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CDG

Why do you think this? Do you mean it will be out of style in general, or specifically in Special Forces? I ask this as a genuine question, not a challenge to your opinion.

Door kickers can be trained in a lot less time than two years.

[CDG]

Originally Posted by Pete

Door kickers can be trained in a lot less time than two years.

Do you feel that is true for training guys to kick doors with the same ability as a DA-specific unit? For example, would you feel better with a certain famous Army CT Unit kicking down doors in search of a HVT, or a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army? Do you feel the skill level at door-kicking maintained by SOF is a crucial skill that does take two years or more of training and experience? Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CDG

.......... Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

Again, if all you want to do is kick doors it don't take two years of training.

Language? All you need to speak is 5.56, 9mm and have a working knowledge of 7.62.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by CDG

Do you feel that is true for training guys to kick doors with the same ability as a DA-specific unit? For example, would you feel better with a certain famous Army CT Unit kicking down doors in search of a HVT, or a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army? Do you feel the skill level at door-kicking maintained by SOF is a crucial skill that does take two years or more of training and experience? Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

SF is getting back to its roots is what Peregrino was getting at. Door kicking, as seen in 4:00 youtube clips, isn't it.

Dont get us wrong, door kicking has its place but there are specific units which focus on that set of skills. And it isn't those skills which sets SF apart from the other Special Operations Forces (Ranger Regiment, SEALs, certain other DA centric units, etc.)

As for skill levels, dont be obtuse. Of course there is no comparison in the two you mention. However, there are selection processes out there for guys whose focus and drive is to kick doors; SFAS isnt it.

If you still need clarification feel free to use the search button. The differences in SOF and SF have been discussed here a time or twenty.

Crip

[CDG]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

SF is getting back to its roots is what Peregrino was getting at. Door kicking, as seen in 4:00 youtube clips, isn't it.

Dont get us wrong, door kicking has its place but there are specific units which focus on that set of skills. And it isn't those skills which sets SF apart from the other Special Operations Forces (Ranger Regiment, SEALs, certain other DA centric units, etc.)

As for skill levels, dont be obtuse. Of course there is no comparison in the two you mention. However, there are selection processes out there for guys whose focus and drive is to kick doors; SFAS isnt it.

If you still need clarification feel free to use the search button. The differences in SOF and SF have been discussed here a time or twenty.

Crip

Understood. Apologies for the poor analogy. You're right (obviously), it was a dumbass move on my part to use those two examples. Thank you to yourself and Pete for the information.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CDG

Understood. Apologies for the poor analogy. You're right (obviously), it was a dumbass move on my part to use those two examples. Thank you to yourself and Pete for the information.

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

[CDG]

Originally Posted by Pete

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Point taken. Yet another example of why I want to be SF.

[Stras]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

FWIW - SF is changing (again ). Within 3-5 years I expect door kicking (a very simple mission set that doesn't require much tact, discretion, or low profile attitudes) to be out of style. So get whatever tats you want (don't forget to concentrate on learning 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62 - no need to study pesky, headache inducing, CAT IV languages). MOO - Tats make it a lot easier to screen candidates for interesting missions. (Interesting is a VERY imprecise parameter! )

ROFLMAO.....

still have memories of the Ex's retort to COL T's infamous speech to the FRG (we don't need language training, we speak 5.56 and 7.62), "if that's true, why did you go away for 12 weeks of Language Training???"

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Pete

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Exactly. Back when (pre-H TO&E circa 1970), the JrEngr slot was labeled Demo Specialist - they wore specialist rank (e.g., SP5 vs SGT) and were authorized demolition pay because of the way they were slotted. It was changed to reflect the thinking Pete articulated in his post.

And so it goes...

Richard

[MTN Medic]

Roughly 50% of the guys on my team have tattoos. This seems fairly consistent group-wide. Will things change? Definitely. Group have changed in just the last coupe years; no telling where we'll be in 10.

I could care less if a guy does have a tattoo but if it is military affiliated, you have to ask yourself what would happen if you were doing some secret squirrel stuff and got caught. Think not only what would happen to you, but also your teammates.

Are not going to be non-selected over it? Extremely unlikely.

[Ironmike]

Tats are a form of identification, on a sterile mission they would be difficult to leave behind. I am still camera shy and have had all of my dental identifiers removed. But really not for a covert mission.

[MTN Medic]

Originally Posted by Ironmike

Tats are a form of identification, on a sterile mission they would be difficult to leave behind. I am still camera shy and have had all of my dental identifiers removed. But really not for a covert mission.

Really?