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Old 04-11-2010, 23:31   #151
Bill Harsey
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Originally Posted by NOQUIT View Post
Thank you for this thread Mr. Harsey, it's a great read. Being a knife lover the chemical make up of blade steel has fascinated me. GO CPM S30 V! I especially like your explanations on what goes on at the molecular level during the heating and cooling processes with respects to freezing it in the ideal configuration. I hope this is even relevant but it made me think of a time I was fortunate enough to have a plane ride next to a guy that worked with NASA in the carbon fiber area and he was explaining to me (among other fascinating things) the differences in the molecular structure of a diamond carbon molecule as opposed to the I guess you could say "spun fiber" carbon molecule (carbon fiber) they use (not your average carbon fiber) as well as the individual strengths. What are your thoughts on or what have you heard/read about the possible applications of such molecular manipulation of carbon molecules for the making of blades? Not sure if I'm out in left field with this... I was also wondering if you have any knowledge of the OU-31 steel that Kikuo Matsuda employs and what your take is? I love the look of his work but haven't foot the bill for one yet. Thanks again for the great thread.
NOQUIT,
Wow, good plane ride!
My only experience with carbon fiber is to cut, drill and grind then complain when some chunk of it came from aerospace because it is much tougher to cut, drill and grind.
I have no knowledge of the OU-31 steel and this does not mean it isn't good steel.
As Oditker points out, there are many manufacturers of tool and bearing quality steels and each make many alloys.
We have to find ways to shorten up the list we draw from but it doesn't mean we aren't paying attention.
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Old 09-14-2010, 13:40   #152
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Mr. Harsey,

Like many people who have posted before me, I am intrigued by the material science and engineering aspects of knife manufacturing. Reading through my texts books and pages in this thread, I'm beginning to realize that I now know much less than previously realized.

After using the search button, I could not find any information located on this website about the matter; I am curious, if metallic glasses (or bulk metallic glasses in particular) have ever been a viable option for knife design?
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Old 09-14-2010, 14:28   #153
Bill Harsey
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Originally Posted by greyfox View Post
Mr. Harsey,

Like many people who have posted before me, I am intrigued by the material science and engineering aspects of knife manufacturing. Reading through my texts books and pages in this thread, I'm beginning to realize that I now know much less than previously realized.

After using the search button, I could not find any information located on this website about the matter; I am curious, if metallic glasses (or bulk metallic glasses in particular) have ever been a viable option for knife design?
greyfox,
Often I feel like I don't know enogh to have gotten this far and also ask a couple of good metallurgists, like the one who developed CPM S-30V, to review my writing here to make sure I'm not screwing up.

Haven't yet heard of metallic glasses being used for knifemaking. I know that there are ceramic blades, ruby, obsidian and glass with some modern applications.

If there is anything better than steel for making a knife out of, haven't heard about it yet.

Yes there are materials that get sharper than steel, like obsidian but obsidian has very little resistance to fracture or "toughness'.

Some good ceramics have much more fracture resistance than obsidian but are still subject to catastrophic failure when used hard.

Also of note, any material we use has to be relatively affordable. If something starts costing hundreds (or more) dollars per lb. Then we have another problem.

Some can take a broken glass window and make something that will open an animal and get to the food part. Here is one of mine...
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Old 09-14-2010, 15:11   #154
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Mr. Harsey,

I'd be more than willing to share some academic presentations on the topic of Bulk Metallic Glasses. From my brief knowledge on the topic, it seems that the applications of the amorphous metal alloys such as Vitreloy, will be something that is going to explode in the next decade.
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Old 09-14-2010, 15:53   #155
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greyfox,
Are you talking about stuff like Liquidmetal?
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Old 09-14-2010, 18:59   #156
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Mr. Harsey,

After a quick google search, it seems that one of the leading commercial companies of BMG's is in fact Liquid Metal; so in short, yes. In class we had only discussed the recent technological developments within the BMG field, not any of the manufacturers, so please forgive me if we've arrived at my original question in a somewhat round-about manner.
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Old 09-14-2010, 19:14   #157
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Originally Posted by greyfox View Post
Mr. Harsey,

After a quick google search, it seems that one of the leading commercial companies of BMG's is in fact Liquid Metal; so in short, yes. In class we had only discussed the recent technological developments within the BMG field, not any of the manufacturers, so please forgive me if we've arrived at my original question in a somewhat round-about manner.
About six or seven years ago the Liquidmetal thing was announced to the knife world as the ultimate material from which to make knives, it was on the cover of our trade magazines etc. and has now fallen off the radar...in my circles anyway.
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Old 09-14-2010, 20:07   #158
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Bill, I can help some on this subject.

I worked with Liquid Metal for awhile back in the 90s. Built several knives from it and wasn't impressed. The least bit of heat while grinding would make weak spots. It was difficult to put a decent finish on and you could never get that "sharp" edge when sharpening.

I still have a few pieces on hand, as a historical thing.

The maker that brought it forward isn't using it anymore. It can cause some medical problems that are hazardous.

http://www.liquidmetal.com/applicati...p.sporting.asp

Also, do a Wiki search and read about Gallium and skin absorption.

If it's the future, I'm going back to school to learn plumbing or carpentry..
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:39   #159
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Tactical Knives just did an article on Crucible's CPM-S35VN and noted that Chris Reeve had a hand (probably a whole arm and most of a leg or two) in it's formulation. From the write up the Niobium looks to have reduced the grain size, increased the uper limit for hardening, and really reduced chipping - tighter austensiting and martensiting is what appears to be the effect of the Niobium Carbides... Chris has already made a few knives from it, I'd love to get a chance to see how it sharpens and holds an edge.

Bill- any thoughts on Crucible's newest addition?
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:52   #160
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Kit,
Thanks for the help, info and warnings.

I've heard that the Liquidmetal is prone to micro fracture and then rapid fracture propagation and that is reason enough for me to stay well away from using it.

x SF med,
Your quite correct on all counts. I'm just starting to make some test blades out of the CPM S-35VN and am interested in seeing how it works. I think it's going to be good stuff.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:04   #161
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Originally Posted by greyfox View Post
Mr. Harsey,

After a quick google search, it seems that one of the leading commercial companies of BMG's is in fact Liquid Metal; so in short, yes. In class we had only discussed the recent technological developments within the BMG field, not any of the manufacturers, so please forgive me if we've arrived at my original question in a somewhat round-about manner.
Not dismissing this material. People have been working iron for about three thousand years to get it to this point so not ready to say Liquidmetal won't have knife applications.
Keep us posted, please.
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Old 09-15-2010, 14:11   #162
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Bill, sounds like it's time for the Troll to visit "the Chapel of Our Lady of the Edged Weapons" again soon... if only to see you working the new steel. Colorado Low-Cal knifemaker fuel will be provided (and chocolate for Mrs. H).
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:29   #163
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I have read through this thread a couple of times as I have many of the threads in the Edged Weapons forum where I have been lurking for a while. I followed Mr. Harsey here from a link in his signature line on another forum IIRC. I have learned much here and know that my proper lane is one from which I should read much and post little. However, I'm curious about steels like H-1 that Spyderco is using for their maritime-application knives. It makes perfect sense that for such applications that one may need more than just "stainless" properties, i.e., real corrosion resistance. However, I've noticed that they are using H-1 on their incarnation of the Warrior and on a knife called the Jumpmaster.

My question to Bill, The Reaper, Sal, and other SMEs here is this: What are the pros and cons for using H-1 and similar alloys for general-purpose blades. What would one be giving up in exchange for "rust-proof"?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback and for being gentle with me as a first-time poster on this forum.

this from Spyderco's web page on the Aqua Salt:
"Whether sporting or laboring in saltwater two features rate highly in choosing a fixed blade utility knife, reliable cutting performance and the knife’s ability to remain rust free without maintenance. The knife industry toyed unsuccessfully with non-rusting steels for years until two years ago when Spyderco started manufacturing blades using an alloy called H-1. H1 is precipitation-hardened steel, utilizing .1% nitrogen instead of carbon. Carbon is the component in steel that makes the blade hard and allows it to hold an edge. Carbon also reacts to chloride, making rust. With nitrogen replacing the carbon; hardness and edge retention are realized but nitrogen doesn’t react to chloride so it physically cannot rust. "
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Old 09-24-2010, 17:55   #164
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I'm not smart enough to know the steel science so I just take what the smart guys like Mr. Harsey say and run with it
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Old 09-25-2010, 16:19   #165
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I just got a sample of a "powder metallurgy" version of BG-42 from Carpenter...
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