Were all MOS's eligible for an SQI S before the 18 CMF?

[HardRoad]

I'm hoping one of the "old hands" here can answer a question for me about the "S" SQI used for SF qualification before the 18 series CMF. On another thread on this site, there was discussion of someone holding MOS 76Y4S, and no-one from that era said anything like, "Wait a minute, that SQI couldn't be awarded to that MOS." I had always assumed that you either had to have the basic MOS for a team position (infantryman, engineer, medic, or radio operator) or that the MOS got awarded to you along with the S identifier when you graduated from the Q course. So, my question is, could any MOS have an S identifier, or was it only added to a a basic MOS that mapped to a team position, like 11B or 11C, 12B, 05B or 91A? Were there people with an MOS like 71L4S running around back in the day?

[JJ_BPK]

Don't quote me,, You listed the basic team mos slots, but TO&E had additional MOS slots at company and group level.

SO,, Supply 76Y probably was a slot in the S4 shop. The S,, not so sure..

There were additional slots at some of the A camps due to mission (read hearts-n-minds). If someone had a non-team mos, but filled a team slot during combat,, they might receive the S.. Remember the camps were getting hit daily,, it made everyone a shooter..

The needs of the business, did not always get you to the school house before Nam..


I think one of the most famous non-mos slotted individuals was Cpt Gillespie, he wore Air Defense brass..

[JJ_BPK]

Looked up 76Y, knew it was supply,, forgot it was used for armorer..

Most camps had that slot..

76Y
ARMORER
ARMORER/UNIT SUPPLY SPECIALIST
ARTIFICER
SATCOM STATION REC/TRANSMITTER ATTENDANT
STORAGE INSPECTOR
SUPPLY SERGEANT
SUPPLY SPECIALIST

Here are the Nam era MOS codes:

http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/vietnam/vwamos.htm

[Astronomy]

Prior to creation of the 18-Series Career Field (~1984), the "S" identifier was mapped to MOS jobs found on SF Detachments. If you were a graduate of the SFQC or served in certain designated SF combat positions from WWII through 1975 SEA (in lieu of the school)... you were awarded an "S" Identifier. Or were at least eligible for such.

After the 1984 creation of the 18 Series MOS Career Field, the "18" denoted Special Forces Qualification. The "S" SQI was re-allocated for use by SF Support MOS personnel. Several years later IIRC. This for folks who served in SF operational units (Company, Battalion, Group, etc.) who were not SFQC graduates nor holders of an 18-Series MOS.

76Y was indeed an MOS filled by SF Qualified folks... on A-Detachments as well as in higher SF unit echelons. They held the same "S" identifier as any other SF qualified team member. And functioned just as any other Team Member. Their Team specialty being Supply, Logistics, & (to a degree) Contracting.

One of my 1980's 11th Group ODA Teammates held that 76YS MOS until the early 1990s. Other Teams had similar billets filled by SF qualified Supply NCOs. We had Modified MTOE 13-man Teams.

SF history has always been a bit nebulous and changes never happened overnight, across the board, for all. For instance...

http://www.specialforcesassociation....ut/sf-history/
In June 1983, the Army authorized a uniform tab for wear on the left shoulder by SF troops. The Army established a separate career management field (CMF 18) for SF enlisted men on Oct. 1, 1984. The Special Forces warrant officer career field (180A) soon followed and, on April 9 1987, the Army Chief of Staff established a separate branch for SF officers (18A).

Unit Roster or Individual Orders converting "S" SQI holders to 18MOS (as well as awarding retroactive SF Tabs) took many months (or even years) to complete for the entire force. Especially in the Guard & Reserve Groups of the time.

General rule of Thumb: If they served prior to the mid-80s and held an "S" Identifier... they were a fully SFQC qualified Green Beret. After the late-80's, anyone with the "S" Identifier was/is a Support Troop.

[TrapperFrank]

not to open another can of worms, but does anyone remember the "soft" skills program of the early 1980s?

[CSB]

Are you referring to the military occupational specialties that were open to qualification via OJT (on the job training), as opposed to those MOS's that could only be awarded by an approved service school?

[tom kelly]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

Don't quote me,, You listed the basic team mos slots, but TO&E had additional MOS slots at company and group level.

SO,, Supply 76Y probably was a slot in the S4 shop. The S,, not so sure..

There were additional slots at some of the A camps due to mission (read hearts-n-minds). If someone had a non-team mos, but filled a team slot during combat,, they might receive the S.. Remember the camps were getting hit daily,, it made everyone a shooter..

The needs of the business, did not always get you to the school house before Nam..


I think one of the most famous non-mos slotted individuals was Cpt Gillespie, he wore Air Defense brass..

Captain. Gillespie was in C Company 1st SFG(Abn.) Machinato, Okinawa in 1964 before deploying to Vietnam as the C O of Det.A-312 CIDG/SF Camp Buon Bring. Another member of that team was Sp4 Earl Bleacher shown in the photo.