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Old 12-11-2013, 06:18   #46
MtnGoat
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Originally Posted by frostfire View Post
This might be over-enthusiastic optimism, but is it not probable the tech-savvy population segment can be polarized (shaped) to trickle down the message to the non-tech one?

We just have to put a convincing non-western narrative, appealing with "be good" Koran verses, and throw a massive tweet/retweet along with it. It's like Greg Mortenson reasoning to educate girls when in the culture, the boy needs to get blessing from the mothers to wage jihad.
A bit off subject, but I think the key to the whole Madrassas issues with brainwashing and radicalization that goes on. One of the biggest boat we lost was the whole education of Afganistan. If NATO/US had built or set up more school is rural areas things would have been different after 10 years.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:43   #47
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If you where wanting to study what was going in a country and looking at how a population is using, communicating and the role of unified communications in their actives. What would you want to know? If SM was motivating a sect of population, what parts of the communication platforms would you be looking at.
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Old 12-12-2013, 13:44   #48
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Then you have Palantir, where many 18Fs and MID people don't really know it we'll enough to use it effectively. This plays into one of the biggest issues with a lot of this.. User knowledge. This is where many say other people can do all of this. For me the people saying this aren't down at the tactical level, on the ODAs, CATs or MIST. So sending up a RFS to come MACOM or Nation level Agency takes time, typically over a week. Think about those CIOC RFS you submit online. How long do they take? This goes back to my thinking of adding the new cyber MOSs at the Battalion MIDs and even at some Company levels. Remove a ASAP or HUMINT position and add a heckler or cyber MOS there. We don't have this capability currently. Remember most of what SM is and doing SMA is a big form of OSINT. So your not losing a ASAP, we are gaining another INTEL assist position and can also be very Operational in means. Goes back to the BCT / FSC methodology, keep it internal for better and fast support.
Sorry for the late response! I first saw/used Palantir in OEF and LOVED it. Wish there was a tool that pushed the SIPR info up to high side for a complete picture.

Your TCAE and SOT-Bs currently have the capability (unsure about the training and accesses however) to answer your RFIs related to use of SM. The new 35Qs will be doing other stuff completely however.

Obviously you guys should not be waiting weeks for an answer to a request. Unfortunately, I can only affect a request that would be routed via your TCAE or SOT-A/Bs due to network connectivity. There is a HUGE disconnect at the National Level in that there is a widely held belief among senior leaders that highside information is being downgraded to SIPR and still useful to the end user. From my experience, support elements (both civ and mil) are still not sharing due to classification and simply do not understand how to properly sanitize information to protect sources and methods while still retaining its utility.
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Old 12-12-2013, 15:59   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
If you where wanting to study what was going in a country and looking at how a population is using, communicating and the role of unified communications in their actives. What would you want to know? If SM was motivating a sect of population, what parts of the communication platforms would you be looking at.
I've been holding off posting on this thread for a bit as I just finished Kilcullen's Out of the Mountains.

His book includes aspects of SM as it relates to mobilizing, protest, and revolution in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya.

Here's an interesting slice from the book:

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3019039/h...he-arab-spring

I'm guessing this is an example of offensive UW use of SM.

It identifies a group called "Takrizards" or "Taks" for short as a hacker group that had long opposed the Tunisian regime.

While their use of connectedness to better secure/defend their communication as well as attack the regime online was innovative, this "air war" as labeled by Kilcullen didn't gain traction until a "ground war" with boots on the ground could be established in the form of soccer/football team supporter hooligans called "Ultras".

So it would appear the Ultras had their political consciousness awakened by the Taks who leveraged their sports related violence and helped to shape them to direct that violence against the regime as well as to coordinate/focus their violence against the regime.

I like Kilcullen's labeling of "air war" for the online activity and "ground war" for the offline real world activity that relates to conventional military operations where seizing and holding ground is essential to victory.

Trusted online networks connected with and force multiplied trusted human networks. Which sounds strikingly like a near future SF mission.

But I wonder if the extreme difficulty in centrally coordinating such an offensive campaign voids such analogous "air war" and "ground war" labeling?

To me a contact/airborne virus in a healthy/unhealthy human body analogy or an analogy related to fire, dry/wet tinder, and accelerants feels more relevant.

While I am slowly starting to grasp the absolute enormity of SM and how many different facets, levels, and missions exist from both state and non-state actor perspectives, what interests me the most is:

W5H (Who, What, When, Where, Why, How) is it possible for a group like the Taks to connect with the Ultras?

And can that be replicated/templated/trained/TTP'd both offensive/defensive? (NOT fishing for details)

It's that connection point between online trusted and existing human trusted network crossover that interests me the most.

The leap from online to human.......like virus transmission from contact to airborne(or vice versa) or smoldering ember hit with an accelerant maybe?
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Old 12-12-2013, 21:03   #50
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Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
I don't want this to be the okie/goat thread so I will try not to post too much more, but one question I have is do you think this stuff should start being incorporated into Area Studies and Area Assessment that the SF teams use?
I say HELL YES. But will a 18F/35F even think about looking at SM. Most don't do a IPB now a days. IMO. So if they are not doing IPBs, I don't see them DOING a IPE/IPOE. I put it this way, SF Batts have EW NCOs and never think about having them look at EW "things".

Targeteer and Targeting is where the money is and that's what we have been doing for ten years. So we have guys that are dart board analysis and darts drive ops. Because ops drive intel.
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Old 12-13-2013, 00:47   #51
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SM in UW

I sat in on a presentation by members of this group. They have a very large and skilled network of volunteer collectors, analysts and others that do a very impressive job of getting in, setting up comms (SM, computer networks etc) where governments and aid organizations cannot. Many of the volunteers are local "hackers" good sources of real time, information not "filtered" by any government. Their networks are in place in areas that may be of interest. I am guessing you folks already know about them but, just in case.

Noslack

The International Network of Crisis Mappers is the largest and most active international community of experts, practitioners, policymakers, technologists, researchers, journalists, scholars, hackers and skilled volunteers engaged at the intersection between humanitarian crises, technology, crowd-sourcing, and crisis mapping. The Crisis Mappers Network was launched by 100 Crisis Mappers at the first International Conference on Crisis Mapping (ICCM) in 2009. As the world's premier humanitarian technology forum, we now engage 6,000+ members in over 160 countries, who are affiliated with over 2,000 different institutions, including over 400 universities, 50 United Nations agencies & projects, dozens of leading technology companies, several volunteer & technical community networks, and disaster response and recovery organizations.
Dr. Patrick Meier & Dr. Jen Ziemke are the Network's Co-Founders & Co-Curators.
Crisis Mappers leverage mobile & web-based applications, participatory maps & crowdsourced event data, aerial & satellite imagery, geospatial platforms, advanced visualization, live simulation, and computational & statistical models to power effective early warning for rapid response to complex humanitarian emergencies. As information scientists we also attempt to extract meaning from mass volumes of real-time data exhaust.
• 6,363 = Members of Crisis Mappers Network
• 3,000+ = Member Organizations/Affiliations (List) including 400+ Universities, 50 UN Agencies/Programs, dozens of leading technology companies, several Volunteer & Technical Community Networks & Disaster Response NGOs.
• 162 = Countries where Members Currently Work
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• 1,955 = Members of Crisis Mappers Google Group
• 7,194 = Emails since 2009
Join our Google Group to participate in the latest discussions, ask questions, share & brainstorm, add yourself to the member map, learn what Crisis Mapping is all about, and view our list of member affiliations to learn about who we are. Pursuing other avenues for involvement? Visit our friends at the Standby Task Force & the Digital Humanitarian Network.
For immediate feedback from our community, please post your forum and blog comments to: crisismappers@googlegroups.com.
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Old 12-13-2013, 17:25   #52
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Originally Posted by Noslack71 View Post
POST
Noslack,

I would love to attend a BLACKHAT, REDHAT, DOJOCON or DEF CON conference. I think SOF needs to start send people to them. We need to send people to different conferences. I have done more networking from a conference than a school. Gotten more R&D or equipment than from a school.

Jump onto YouTube is see what these conferences are about.
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"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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Old 12-13-2013, 17:55   #53
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POST
FLAGG,

I think many parts of the Tunisian, Egyptian and Syrian Revolutions/Movements could differently be labeled as "offensive" use of SM.

The biggest issue with it is "selling" it as a means of employment. I differently think you could be using it as a form of analyzing what is happen inside a country.


I have pick up the book, thanks for the review.
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"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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Old 12-13-2013, 22:53   #54
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Conferences

MtnGoat:
RSA is another one that is worthwhile. I started attending BH, Defcon etc in 2009. You are absolutely correct, my learning curve looked like one of the Shuttle launches. There are a number of very worthwhile ones in Metro DC that are free to Govies and AD. AFCEA, and DOD has a very good Cyber Crime Conference in Atlanta ( or used to prior to budget issues) every year. DefCon has a monthly group meeting in several cities w/in driving distance of you. Very talented, interesring though a tad quirky lot. If you are interested PM me and I can get you some POC's. There was an interesting article in the NYT about a " suitcase sized" ISP that was being used by Arab Spring groups when the govts shut off the country's internet. It operated under the gov's isp and worked much like the old PRC 77' s in a relay mode. Individual ranges were limited but the protesters set them up to overlap each other and got good coverage countrywide.
Basi c problem with Cyber is that this time is similar to 1945-the 60's nuclear weapons development. No real policy, strategy or doctrine which means its wide open to creative thinkers and operators.

Noslack
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:26   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
I would love to attend a BLACKHAT, REDHAT, DOJOCON or DEF CON conference. I think SOF needs to start send people to them. We need to send people to different conferences. I have done more networking from a conference than a school. Gotten more R&D or equipment than from a school.

Jump onto YouTube is see what these conferences are about.
Mnt Goat,
There may be some assistance already available . My understanding is that MAJ T.J. O'Connor is/was a member of the SF community. I had viewed several YOU TUBE videos of his presentation at DEF CON, but can't seem to locate them now. Perhaps someone on the board has contact info
SnT

[B]Previous thread where he is discussed

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...ght=stay+frost

White Paper
http://www.sans.org/reading-room/whi...&cat=attacking
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:39   #56
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Mnt Goat,
There may be some assistance already available . My understanding is that MAJ T.J. O'Connor is/was a member of the SF community. I had viewed several YOU TUBE videos of his presentation at DEF CON, but can't seem to locate them now. Perhaps someone on the board has contact info
SnT

[B]Previous thread where he is discussed

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...ght=stay+frost

White Paper
http://www.sans.org/reading-room/whi...&cat=attacking
S&T

Thank you BIG TIME on the Whitepaper. I had this once and lost it due a laptop crash. This is a great read for many of us. I've been trying to find it again. I have a friend that needs it for a baseline, a bit different than what is discussed here. This paper is more of cyber-warfare attacks than analysis a populations and looking to see if it (SM) can be used to motivate a population in a countries social movement for change.

I will have to find out about MAJ T.J. O'Connor.
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"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”

Last edited by MtnGoat; 12-14-2013 at 10:40.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:39   #57
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Here is something to think about and put your UW Goggles on for.

If you're a Facebook messenger app user and didn't read the term of service. Here are a few app permission you've accepted as reported in Huffington Post:

Quote:
Allows the app to change the state of network connectivity

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention. This may result in unexpected charges or calls. Malicious apps may cost you money by making calls without your confirmation.

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges. Malicious apps may cost you money by sending messages without your confirmation.

Allows the app to record audio with microphone. This permission allows the app to record audio at any time without your confirmation.

Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This permission allows the app to use the camera at any time without your confirmation.

Allows the app to read you phone's call log, including data about incoming and outgoing calls. This permission allows apps to save your call log data, and malicious apps may share call log data without your knowledge.

Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your phone, including the frequency with which you've called, emailed, or communicated in other ways with specific individuals.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device, such as your name and contact information. This means the app can identify you and may send your profile information to others.

Allows the app to access the phone features of the device. This permission allows the app to determine the phone number and device IDs, whether a call is active, and the remote number connected by a call.

Allows the app to get a list of accounts known by the phone. This may include any accounts created by applications you have installed.

Something else to think about in UW mindset is they way social media is using Facial recognition with every picture. Well to a point.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/t/vi...reepy-13817484

Yet we have a guy that makes a app for everyone to use to log into the DFAS MY PAY account which turned out to be what? Identity theft?!? BTW, that guy self taught how to do all of what he did by YouTube and some basic skills.
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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Old 12-17-2013, 20:10   #58
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Palantir

Palantir --How A 'Deviant' Philosopher Built Palantir, A CIA-Funded Data-Mining Juggernaut

Read this in hard copy and thought I would share the electronic version. Sometimes the people managing the companies are as weird as their products are important
SnT

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...ng-juggernaut/
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Old 12-17-2013, 21:18   #59
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Originally Posted by Surf n Turf View Post
Palantir --How A 'Deviant' Philosopher Built Palantir, A CIA-Funded Data-Mining Juggernaut

Read this in hard copy and thought I would share the electronic version. Sometimes the people managing the companies are as weird as their products are important
SnT

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...ng-juggernaut/
Interesting article, didn't know all the back ground of how "it" was made. I think most "big" Companies owners are all weird. Steve Jobs was to Bill Gates. We're all weird in our own wells. Haha
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"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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Old 12-29-2013, 14:43   #60
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U.S. officials warn about "military attacks" on electric power facilities

http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/pos...litary-assault

For anyone that hasn't seen this floating around, it's a good read. More of an example of how CARVER works. I'm using this to make a point. For anyone that does know how the Chinese have "testing" our online world that the USA has migrated to with most of power plants, water treatment plants, etc.

So throw this out, if you are looking into a country and see on social media different trending topics. Now thinking with your UW hats or deceiveous thinking caps, if you see that a nation, sect of population is pissed about their Governments handling of a public service facility. So if you see a trending indicator could a hacker shutdown a said public service system, think CARVER, and then use SM to support the said group of trending topics?

Think of it this way. Could this be going on with what the Chinese has been doing here? Do our political parties do this? Can social media drive a change within a country?
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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