02-05-2013, 08:43
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,987
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I now subscribe to the "Dusty effect'. Hunkering down in my bunker and waiting for the apocolypse.
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"Were you born a fat, slimy, scumbag, puke, piece 'o shit, Private Pyle, or did you have to work at it?" - GySgt Hartman
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sinjefe is offline
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02-05-2013, 08:48
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
You have to live by your principals.
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Not me - I was wild as a dry August wind and always wanted to live as far away from my 'principals' as possible.
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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02-05-2013, 08:51
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#18
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
I now subscribe to the "Dusty effect'. Hunkering down in my bunker and waiting for the apocolypse.
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" Imitation is the sincerest forum of flattery."
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"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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02-05-2013, 09:05
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#19
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Just above the flood plain in Southern Texas
Posts: 3,608
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There will not be equality and a sexless military until everyone is treated the same and comfortable with co-Ed everything.
As long as we have "Men" and "Women" seperate latrines and shower facilities and a different physical fitness standard to define "qualified" there will be issues with men and women serving in specific roles together.
There is no reason not to expect that many will suffer and some will die, so that a few can achieve some fantasy about what equality is and is not.
There may be roles for women in combat units and those should be defined with tests and qualifications that differ from their male counterparts but do not disrupt the natural order of things.
JMO
ETA: We have and have had women in SF (support roles) for years, they perform their duties with great enthusiasm and professionalism. Some would even be an asset in the field but those roles are limited and very specific.
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Old Dog New Trick is offline
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02-05-2013, 09:32
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,941
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My sister in law was the Athletic Director at a school here in California when Title IX passed, dictating that both men's and women's athletic teams had to have equal facilities, funding, etc.
I asked her if this meant women could try out for men's teams, she said yes.
I asked her if I could try out for her women's softball team, she said no and couldn't tell me (or admit) why...
There are no women playing in the NFL, the NBA, MLB or NHL for a reason...
Last edited by mark46th; 02-05-2013 at 09:45.
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mark46th is offline
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02-05-2013, 12:05
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#21
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ft. Bragg
Posts: 2,908
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Which also begs the question...why do our fearless leaders need all female FETs and CSTs? Why can't a male join those two units? Is my testosterone level too high? I think men should be allowed the option of going out for the CSTs and FETs.
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"Somebody should put that quote on a T-shirt:
Muslim phrase: "Aloha Snackbar!"
English translation: "Draw, Mother-F*cker!""
-TOMAHAWK9521
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1stindoor is offline
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02-05-2013, 13:06
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#22
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 4,941
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Since when did equality, cultural sensitivity and gender have anything to do with logic?
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mark46th is offline
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02-05-2013, 15:33
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#23
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afchic
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but weren't those teams put together because of cultural sensitivity in the AOR?
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That's correct. Now, if we flip the circumstances, how effective will a female infantry company commander be at conducting a shura with a local Afghani tribal elder? Nowadays, SF aren't the only ones out in the wild building rapport and partnerships, and there are a heck of a lot of cultures around the world where women are treated far less than equal.
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Razor is offline
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02-05-2013, 18:45
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,779
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I hear women complaining, with some regularity, that all of the real men are gone, and men don't act like men anymore.
Then I hear my Chief of Staff saying that in order to get women into units where they do not meet the standards, the units will have to reevaluate and justify those standards.
What do you think has happened to the boys who wanted to be men?
Eventually, this is going to get a lot of people hurt.
For those of you unfamiliar with it, there was a combat load study of a "light infantry" unit in the box, and their measured loads ranged between 125 and 145 pounds per man, at significant altitude, for days on end. Any women I know who could physically lift that load (less strength, especially upper body), could not sustain it for as long as the men (lower aerobic capacity), and would suffer permanent damage to their bodies (lower bone density).
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-05-2013, 18:47
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#25
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tennesse
Posts: 766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
That's correct. Now, if we flip the circumstances, how effective will a female infantry company commander be at conducting a shura with a local Afghani tribal elder? Nowadays, SF aren't the only ones out in the wild building rapport and partnerships, and there are a heck of a lot of cultures around the world where women are treated far less than equal.
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I can imagine VERY few places in the 5th Group AOR that would react well to a female Detachment Commander showing up to meet with a counterpart military commander.
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scooter is offline
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02-05-2013, 19:04
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#26
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: PNW
Posts: 685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I hear women complaining, with some regularity, that all of the real men are gone, and men don't act like men anymore.
Then I hear my Chief of Staff saying that in order to get women into units where they do not meet the standards, the units will have to reevaluate and justify those standards.
What do you think has happened to the boys who wanted to be men?
Eventually, this is going to get a lot of people hurt.
For those of you unfamiliar with it, there was a combat load study of a "light infantry" unit in the box, and their measured loads ranged between 125 and 145 pounds per man, at significant altitude, for days on end. Any women I know who could physically lift that load (less strength, especially upper body), could not sustain it for as long as the men (lower aerobic capacity), and would suffer permanent damage to their bodies (lower bone density).
TR
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These?
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The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal. Aristotle
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire
Last edited by BKKMAN; 02-05-2013 at 19:08.
Reason: Added MCOE .pdf
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02-06-2013, 05:58
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I hear women complaining, with some regularity, that all of the real men are gone, and men don't act like men anymore.
Then I hear my Chief of Staff saying that in order to get women into units where they do not meet the standards, the units will have to reevaluate and justify those standards.
What do you think has happened to the boys who wanted to be men?
Eventually, this is going to get a lot of people hurt.TR
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Well I'll say, even if USASFC brings back the SF yearly certification, this wouldn't help Groups or the Regiment in a cause. The standards will be changed and arms/hands tied.
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History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
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Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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02-06-2013, 08:26
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#28
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ft. Bragg
Posts: 2,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
That's correct. Now, if we flip the circumstances, how effective will a female infantry company commander be at conducting a shura with a local Afghani tribal elder? Nowadays, SF aren't the only ones out in the wild building rapport and partnerships, and there are a heck of a lot of cultures around the world where women are treated far less than equal.
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Thanks for the assist...and it was my point exactly. Growing up in 7th SFG was another prime example of why women on teams wouldn't being accepted.
__________________
"Somebody should put that quote on a T-shirt:
Muslim phrase: "Aloha Snackbar!"
English translation: "Draw, Mother-F*cker!""
-TOMAHAWK9521
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1stindoor is offline
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02-06-2013, 15:45
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#29
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
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Couldn't resist
womens.jpg
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D-3129 Life
"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."
"De Oppresso Liber"
Last edited by Snaquebite; 02-06-2013 at 17:25.
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Snaquebite is offline
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02-06-2013, 17:29
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#30
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaquebite
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lol Made my day.
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Dusty is offline
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