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Old 04-13-2014, 21:56   #1
futureSOF
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700lbs Squat and 4:15 Mile

http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/...ns-alex-viada/

Found this to be pretty interesting and thought others might.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:21   #2
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That was a pretty interesting article. Combining this new scientific input with the functional crossfit-type training techniques is really effective.

700 lb squat and a 4:15 mile are impressive numbers, especially for a guy who runs ultras
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:26   #3
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Someone is going to bitch about the fact that he used an ultra wide sumo stance for that deadlift, but I challenge them to go do 700 lbs at any stance. Pretty impressive, and his website has some interesting articles on it as well.
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Old 04-14-2014, 14:39   #4
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I don't care how about stance or wraps. To move 700lbs is impressive.

I'm more interested in whether he ran a 4:15 mile. That's the less believable claim, imho. Maybe he did it at a lighter weight than he was at when he squatted 700?
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Old 04-14-2014, 17:48   #5
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I'm more interested in whether he ran a 4:15 mile. That's the less believable claim, imho. Maybe he did it at a lighter weight than he was at when he squatted 700?
Hard to believe anyone could run a 4:15 mile and be conditioned to run an ultra marathon.
Extreme long distance training makes you slower.

There is the occasional freak who can do both well, but they are usually very light with abnormally long legs.
Such a person would never parallel squat 700lbs.
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Old 04-14-2014, 18:40   #6
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Read some of his articles posted on his site and in one of them he states when he trained for a marathon his 700 lbs dead lift suffered.......pretty sure these numbers if true did not coincide......like what I read though
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Old 04-14-2014, 19:16   #7
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Not to take away anything from him -- he's clearly beastly strong and has a lot of endurance.

I'm guessing the title is a little misleading at best if the 700lb squat and the 4:15 mile were separated by anything more than a few months, which I suspect they were.

(Which on second thought, probably does take something away from him. Kinda disingenuous, as I said, depending on how far apart the two events were.)

For those interested, Joe Decker is another that's been able to compete in both ultras and powerlifting. Of these two, Decker's the more accomplished ultra endurance athlete but I don't know if he ever got to a 700lb squat. He did get to 400lbs in the bench.
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Old 04-14-2014, 20:26   #8
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Yeah I highly doubt he schedules powerlifting meets and endurance events two weeks apart. But the fact that he's able to do both at a relatively high level is pretty cool.
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Old 04-14-2014, 21:36   #9
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Yeah I highly doubt he schedules powerlifting meets and endurance events two weeks apart. But the fact that he's able to do both at a relatively high level is pretty cool.
Well, in this article linked below he mentions tearing a quad at a powerlifting meet three weeks before completing a 50 mile ultra. And his youtube video said he pulled 715lbs just 48 hours after a three hour trail run.

So yeah, he is claiming to be simultaneously extremely strong and still able to go long. No talk off seasons or cycling between endurance and powerlifting sports.

Link is NSFW and possibly NSFLife due to photos-
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/201...tation-of.html

But I'm questioning if the 4:15 mile, if it happened, was years ago when he wasn't nearly as big or as strong? Did he run the 4:15 five years ago at 160lb, and now after five years of being juiced to the gills he's up to 230lb and he puts up the impressive powerlifting numbers?

Never mind his one Ironman finish, I'm more interested in how he was able to run the 4:15 mile rather than do some tris/ultra.

Compared to that mile time, it's relatively easy to slog through an Ironman or an ultra. I've done an Ironman and a 44 mile ultra without training a lot for either. I was slow, mind you, but I finished them. (I also was skinny and not strong at the time, so in no way am I trying to make it sound like it's a big deal.)

However, I could have trained a lifetime and I would still never have reached a 4:15 mile.

BTW, from googling Viada, it looks like one or two folks are disputing his run times. All anyone can find online is a 5k he ran in 26 minutes back in 2007. (One race time predictor, using an extrapolation formula, says that someone that runs a 4:15 mile should run a 5k in 14:08. So somewhere along the way he got a lot faster, it would seem).

Having said all that, I'll admit that it's very cool to be that strong and finish an Ironman and some ultras. Good to know that cardio doesn't have to kill strength.

Last edited by Leozinho; 04-14-2014 at 21:39.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:58   #10
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Running a mile vs a 5K are two very different things. One could argue that given the large endurance base (which he continually hammers on in his articles and videos) would provide a good foundation for a mile "sprint" of the sub-5 minute nature. I recall reading years ago about one of the body builders at the time that outsprinted one of the Olympic sprinters at I believe was an 800m distance (the distance is a hazy recollection). Theoretically, depending upon his fast and slow twitch ratio, he could achieve both, but I too would like to see the proof. Not to take anything away from him, because I would put good money on no other endurance runner having those kind of numbers, regardless of the amount of time between the one rep max and the ultra race.
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Old 04-15-2014, 21:41   #11
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Originally Posted by Leozinho View Post
Well, in this article linked below he mentions tearing a quad at a powerlifting meet three weeks before completing a 50 mile ultra. And his youtube video said he pulled 715lbs just 48 hours after a three hour trail run.

So yeah, he is claiming to be simultaneously extremely strong and still able to go long. No talk off seasons or cycling between endurance and powerlifting sports.

Link is NSFW and possibly NSFLife due to photos-
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/201...tation-of.html

But I'm questioning if the 4:15 mile, if it happened, was years ago when he wasn't nearly as big or as strong? Did he run the 4:15 five years ago at 160lb, and now after five years of being juiced to the gills he's up to 230lb and he puts up the impressive powerlifting numbers?

Never mind his one Ironman finish, I'm more interested in how he was able to run the 4:15 mile rather than do some tris/ultra.

Compared to that mile time, it's relatively easy to slog through an Ironman or an ultra. I've done an Ironman and a 44 mile ultra without training a lot for either. I was slow, mind you, but I finished them. (I also was skinny and not strong at the time, so in no way am I trying to make it sound like it's a big deal.)

However, I could have trained a lifetime and I would still never have reached a 4:15 mile.

BTW, from googling Viada, it looks like one or two folks are disputing his run times. All anyone can find online is a 5k he ran in 26 minutes back in 2007. (One race time predictor, using an extrapolation formula, says that someone that runs a 4:15 mile should run a 5k in 14:08. So somewhere along the way he got a lot faster, it would seem).

Having said all that, I'll admit that it's very cool to be that strong and finish an Ironman and some ultras. Good to know that cardio doesn't have to kill strength.
26 minute 5k?

I could run a 22:15 5k, completely untrained, at altitude, when I was 10 years old.
Never broke 4:15 in the mile at any weight, age, or condition.

My dad has been racing competitively for more than a half century and coached for more than a quarter century.
Ran the numbers by him and asked his opinion.

His assessment on the mile time: complete BS.

There has never been (in modern times) a man that big who could run a mile that fast.
A 4:15 mile would put you on a Div I NCAA track team where the 1600 meter guys typically weigh 125-145 lbs.

My dad ran a 4:17 mile at high altitude in college (equivalent to about ~4:05-4:10 at low altitude).
Compared to his competitors, he was an absolute giant at 162 lbs (6'4").

I ran a 4:37 mile (high altitude, tactical race) at age 18 and 155 lbs (6'2") on 8 weeks training.
A decade later, at 195lbs, getting under a 6 minute minute mile was trivial, but getting under a 5 minute mile at that weight would've been difficult with any amount of training.

A 4:15 mile? Never.
Never mind trying to keep up other training simultaneously.

Had a high-pull power clean (minimal drop) of 260lbs then, not sure what it converts to for dead lift.
There's no way someone could keep up the muscle mass necessary for those lifting numbers and run that fast.

The only way someone can run that fast at a heavier weight (over 170 lbs) would be if they were very tall/long legs (maybe Bill Russell, with specialized training).
Long legs would make those squat numbers beyond impossible.


A pretty accurate correlation between mile times and 5000m times:

For 5k to mile:
-Divide 5k time (in seconds)/3.1 for mile splits.
-Multiply mile splits x .93 to allow for shorter race.

Reverse process for mile to 5k.

A 4:15 miler should have a 5k time of about 14:10.
26 minutes? Not even close.

Throwing the BS flag on the mile time.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:07   #12
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On average, what is the maximum distance one can run without seriously affecting their ability to develop a decent amount of strength? Ten miles?
Endurance training in and of itself doesn't affect strength much.
It affects speed.

There is an explosive/speed element to some strength movements.
Endurance training can take take away a little due to this.

Finite training time and recuperative abilities will be more of a limiting factor when it comes to the strength/endurance balance.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:02   #13
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On average, what is the maximum distance one can run without seriously affecting their ability to develop a decent amount of strength? Ten miles?
You probably need to define "strength" with this question. Strength as in the ability to lay on a bench and lift a heavy bar one time, versus strength as in being able to climb a rope or carry shingles up a ladder.

A buddy of mine does the Scottish strongman competitions. He is about 300 lbs. I'm not sure what he can bench or squat, and I doubt he knows, as he seldom if ever works out in a gym. But that guy can do some ridiculously heavy stuff. Carrying full kegs (a rather handy ability to have), throwing 50 lb. bags with a pitchfork, throwing timbers, moving atlas stones, etc. A good friend to have around when there is heavy work to do.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:44   #14
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On average, what is the maximum distance one can run without seriously affecting their ability to develop a decent amount of strength? Ten miles?
That is completely training dependent. Gym Jones has trained some endurance folks (ultra runners, etc) that have ridiculous strength numbers. As stated above, it has more to do with recovery, etc. than a cut and dry number.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:19   #15
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What about in terms of muscle mass? For example, would it be possible for say a marathoner to have a form of muscled physique, or do they have to be very lanky thin?
A heavily muscled person can do plenty of endurance activities well.
They will actually have more absolute endurance than they will with less muscle mass.

Racing against a clock (at a distance where endurance matters) is a function of relative endurance, not absolute endurance.
Thinner people do it better because they are doing less work (carrying less weight), not because they have more endurance.

The limiting factor in an aerobic activity is how much oxygen you can process (heart and lungs).
The exact same person at a heavier weight has to process more oxygen to maintain the same speed they would at a lower weight.

In my father's experience, the correlation between his weight and running times (for longer distances) was almost 1 to 1.
His peers experienced similar correlations.
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