Medical waiver (mental) question

[Zehuti]

Quiet Professionals,

As much as I would have liked to find the answer to this question on my own, it seems I am unable to do so. The recruiters in my area are fairly clueless when it comes to SF, and the documentation online for SF and medical waivers seems to either be out-dated or non-existent. I am hoping you guys will have more insight into this. I tried searching the forum for more info, but was unsuccessful.

Put shortly, my friend and I are planning to sign an 18x contract within the next 3 weeks (before our ASVAB scores expire). He went to MEPS yesterday for his physical, and they claim that he needs a waiver for a diagnosis of tourettes when he was young. I heard that certain waiver codes will DQ you from SF, period. Is this true? And if so, is there a resource that lists those? I assume it changes often, but any information is better than none. I don't have his waiver code, but would any of you happen to know if such a situation is a dis-qualifier for an 18x contract?

Additional notes;
1) He has been off medication for over 5 years, and has been cleared by his personal doctor.
2) The paperwork has been submitted for a waiver, but it isn't 100% that he will actually need the waiver, I read that each waiver is on an individual basis; his ASVAB score is 92 and has a 3.9GPA. Do any of you think he has much hope either not needing a waiver, or still being able to sign an 18x contract?

I also read that airborne is VERY strict regarding medical waivers. I couldn't imagine a mental condition that doesn't present an issue anymore mattering, but I would like to get all of the information that I can.

Thank you in advance for any information, and thank you for the tremendous amount of effort and information put into this site.

[Surgicalcric]

Did you/your friend read AR40-501? If not thats where you need to start; it will answer your questions about the waiver issue.

Your friends ASVAB and GPA will have no bearing on the decision to grant him a waiver for enlistment nor his being fit, mentally, to serve in SF.

Crip

[Zehuti]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Did you/your friend read AR40-501?

I have viewed the document, but we were unable to find anything regarding tourettes directly, and I was hoping the fact that the diagnosis is about 13 years old, and he has been off of meds for over 5 would help in this regard.

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Your friends ASVAB and GPA will have no bearing on the decision to grant him a waiver for enlistment nor his being fit, mentally, to serve in SF.

Noted. Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure what they take into account.

[Zehuti]

Update:

After looking further into the AR40-501, I found this:

Section 10-11: Waivers
d. Waivers for initial training in Airborne, Ranger, Special Forces, Military Free Fall (MFF), and Diving will not be
approved/granted except on the recommendation by the Commander of the appropriate proponent school.

I suppose this has turned into question of how willing the Commanders would be to provide a "recommendation". The Reaper posted a number in another thread for Ft Bragg SF recruiting (910-432-1818), but no one picks up and their mailbox appears to be full. Also, the SORB site seems to be down.. so I'm not sure how to try to contact the Ft. Bragg Commander.

Anyway, asking for experience now.. is it likely that my friend will be able to sign an 18x contract by contacting the Commanders and getting approval? Or is he going to have to sign as an 11B or something, then moving up via packet submissions?

Thanks for any information.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Zehuti

...is he going to have to sign as an 11B or something, then moving up via packet submissions?

Bingo...

[Zehuti]

Heh, then so be it. Thanks for all of your help. I guess we'll try to pester the commanders, and if we can't get anything out of it, then we'll take the long route.

[Utah Bob]

Yeah. Pestering will work every time.

[Buffalobob]

I couldn't imagine a mental condition that doesn't present an issue anymore mattering, but I would like to get all of the information that I can.

Tourettes not being a psychiatric condition but rather a neurological condition and being fairly well known presents a glimmer of hope ( I am an engineer not an MD). However, just so you don't post up BS as truth, combat and killing real people and being in real situations where you must devalue your own life to zero worth will aggravate any mental condition that is psychiatric in nature. Dehumanizing ones own self and other people creates real internal conflicts that often take a life time to resolve (if one ever actually does resolve them). Combat is not a place for the mentally frail. Even a healthy person has trouble staying sane and stable. Thus the Army has good reason for not allowing certain people in combat.

Now then, the route I went for my profile and to get a waiver was as follows. Once I was rejected for combat arms because of preexisting hearing loss, I went to my ROTC adviser (in your friends case, the recruiter) and begged as piteously as possible while not actually groveling. He then had me retested which I failed again. I then went and grovelled again and he cut orders for me to go to Ft Rucker and be tested by a specialist. I failed again but the MD recognized my desire to be in the Infantry and exercised his authority and issued me a waiver to be approved by my CO (ROTC adviser). My CO obviously was sympathetic and gave me the waiver based upon a medical recommendation. That was all I needed which was good for everything that followed. Just a footnote to history-in the 1969, graduating ROTC class at the University of Alabama I was the only person who selected Infantry as first branch choice.

So, my advice, is to get the recruiter to refer your friend to a qualified Army neurologist (not somebody else but a real board certified neurologist). This person will know the disease and know the long term implications and be able to make the correct recommendation. All you ever need is that one army neurologist to sign his name and you are good to go forever. Once that waiver has been obtained then get an 18X contract. Its been a long time and the army has changed but people and situations are still best handled certain ways. Also many diseases get on lists and never get removed even when new science comes along. It may well be that the neurologist will reject your friend because there are issues that I do not know about. I am merely giving you advice on a process that worked for me long ago.

[Richard]

Section 10-11: Waivers
d. Waivers for initial training in Airborne, Ranger, Special Forces, Military Free Fall (MFF), and Diving will not be approved/granted except on the recommendation by the Commander of the appropriate proponent school.

I guess we'll try to pester the commanders, and if we can't get anything out of it, then we'll take the long route.

A word of advice - take the long route - this passage from the regs doesn't mean you should go about 'pestering' the proponent schools commanders - this means you get board certified medical personnel to examine your friend and make a recommendation which is then forwarded through channels to the appropriate school's commander for review and approval/denial - the school will have competent medical advisory personnel or a board to review the case and give the commander a recommendation to accept, deny, or request further documentation before making a final decision.

If denied - your friend proves himself capable as a soldier w/o further incident and then reapplies - nothing like a history of relevantly demonstrated performance to help weigh such a decision in your favor.

Richard's $.02

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Zehuti

Heh, then so be it. Thanks for all of your help. I guess we'll try to pester the commanders, and if we can't get anything out of it, then we'll take the long route.

I am sure that the General looks forward to hearing from you and your friend.

TR

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Richard

If denied - your friend proves himself capable as a soldier w/o further incident and then reapplies - nothing like a history of relevantly demonstrated performance to help weigh such a decision in your favor.

Richard's $.02

He can take this statement to the bank!

Stay safe.

[Zehuti]

Great info, thanks a lot. Especially Buffalobob and Richard - It's good to see that determination pays off, and someone who has made their way through the process, and made it to SF to boot!

When I said "pestering the commanders", I didn't mean it so literally, if they say no, then that's that. But an Airborne commander has already said yes to looking over his file, and if he approves, then he'll get Airborne on the contract it seems.

Now we're just waiting on his tourettes waiver to come back, if that fails.. then he's definitely going to take one of the routes mentioned.