11-18-2005, 12:37
|
#1
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,938
|
Iraq and Foreign Volunteers
This partially addresses some questions CoLawman had a few days ago.
Iraq and Foreign Volunteers
http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/...foreignvol.pdf
PDF, 9 pages
|
|
Airbornelawyer is offline
|
|
|
11-18-2005, 13:31
|
#2
|
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
|
Thanks for the link, AL. This report has been the subject of some recent contention. Although CSIS estimates that only about 12% of insurgents in Iraq are foreigners, this past week several statements were made by Iraqi security officials claiming that 90% of the suicide bombers are foreigners, mostly of Saudi origin. I'll look for a link to the source of those statements, but in the meantime it seems that
1. CSIS does not have an incentive to falsify statistics (or the reputation for ever having done so), while Iraq's officials would clearly benefit from placing blame outside of their own sphere of influence.
2. Perhaps both are right. While the insurgency's main corpus may be composed of Iraqis, it may be the case that the most violent attacks depend on a supply of foreign volunteers.
I'd be interested in hearing how others would square these two conflicting sets of claims... 
__________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
|
|
jatx is offline
|
|
|
11-18-2005, 13:37
|
#3
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
|
All insurgents are not suicide bombers.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
11-18-2005, 13:49
|
#4
|
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Reaper
All insurgents are not suicide bombers.
TR
|
Sir,
That was my point under #2. You put it more succinctly. I suppose my main question is whether or not the Iraqi insurgents would take up the task of suicide attacks if the supply of foreign volunteers were interdicted. The various possible answers would seem to imply very different strategies.
__________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
|
|
jatx is offline
|
|
|
11-18-2005, 14:44
|
#5
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,938
|
The source for the 90% claim is the "study" by Reuven Paz noted in the CSIS report. As noted in the report, Paz's methodology was deeply flawed.
|
|
Airbornelawyer is offline
|
|
|
11-23-2005, 10:37
|
#6
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,938
|
Some more on the foreign fighters debate:
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the...istakes_b.html
Quote:
More Mistakes by the Washington Post on the Foreign Fighters "Debate"
As much as I am fatigued by the seemingly endless "fisking" of misinformed articles on Iraq's foreign fighters, I cannot resist drawing attention to yet another recent Washington Post article which twists the research and conclusions of Anthony Cordesman at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
...
|
Read the rest
|
|
Airbornelawyer is offline
|
|
|
11-23-2005, 20:46
|
#7
|
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,205
|
Thanks for the posts AL and agree that it sheds some light on the reason Syria is the gateway.
|
|
CoLawman is offline
|
|
|
11-23-2005, 21:07
|
#8
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
I haven't read the articles (I will, just tired today). I'm not sure a general percentage is relevant. What I think they should be looking at is what percentage of the leadership is foreign. Insurgent groups tend not to do very well without a dynamic or threatening leadership. Most of the insurgent gen pop are probably either:
1. On the fence
2. Adventurers
3. Have family members threatened etc.
I recently read a post from a guy there in which they are finding "suicide bombers" chained to the vehicles, something we saw here a few years ago and I highly suspect came via the IRA. Most groups have long put fail-safe systems in their vehicles in case the the martyr loses nerve.
I would think it would be fairly difficult to replace Zarqawi or Bin Laden, it takes a few years to develop the Che Mystic.
Just 02
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:38.
|
|
|
Linear Mode
