Bad Toelz - Page 17

MVP · 02-28-2011, 16:33

http://armykaserne.com/us/flint-kaserne-bad-tolz/

MVP

02-28-2011, 20:17

I have a question concerning 10th's original formation. Is it true that some early members of 10th group wore the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab above and "7steps to hell" tab below the 7th army patch?

lksteve · 02-28-2011, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

I have a question concerning 10th's original formation. Is it true that some early members of 10th group wore the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab above and "7steps to hell" tab below the 7th army patch?

I recall the initial patch was the Airborne Command patch...

02-28-2011, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

I recall the initial patch was the Airborne Command patch...

I've heard that as well, from what I was told the Airborne Command patch was worn, along with some wearing the 7th Army patch with the Airborne tab. I was speaking about this with a current 10th grouper and he mentioned the same thing as you did. When I asked someone else, they sent me this,

"According to a softbound book titled "Guide to United States Army Special Forces Insignia 1952 - 1987 by Leonard Martin and H.W. Snyder & H.J. Saunders" this combination of 7th Army SSI with white on blue airborne tab was worn by the 10th Special Forces Group (Europe) between 1952 through 1955"

Having said all this, I'm just plain confused, but I really do appreciate the response sir especially so quickly.

ArtR · 03-01-2011, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

I've heard that as well, from what I was told the Airborne Command patch was worn, along with some wearing the 7th Army patch with the Airborne tab. I was speaking about this with a current 10th grouper and he mentioned the same thing as you did. When I asked someone else, they sent me this,

"According to a softbound book titled "Guide to United States Army Special Forces Insignia 1952 - 1987 by Leonard Martin and H.W. Snyder & H.J. Saunders" this combination of 7th Army SSI with white on blue airborne tab was worn by the 10th Special Forces Group (Europe) between 1952 through 1955"

Having said all this, I'm just plain confused, but I really do appreciate the response sir especially so quickly.

I was with the 10th Group in 1955 and we wore the Abn Command Patch. I still have my 10th Group Year book from 1956 and all pictures from 1952 forward show only the Abn Command Patch being worn.

Richard · 03-01-2011, 09:11

I've never seen a pic nor heard of any 7th Army SSI with Airborne tab being worn by the 10th SFG.

The 10th wore the Airborne Command Patch upon activation at Fort Bragg, NC, on 11 June 1952 and continued to wear it after deployment to Europe in 1953 until it was replaced with the SF SSI which was approved in Aug 1955.

A number of the original 10th SFG Officers also wore their Infantry branch insignia with a number "10" superimposed atop the crossed rifles - but that was never authroized insignia.

The 10th SFG oval (dark green with red border) for the parachutist badge backing was authorized on 19 Sep 52 and was never changed.

The 10th SFG beret flash was approved with the authorization of the beret for SF in Oct 1961.

However, with Operation REFORGER, the 1-10th (which remained in Europe while the majority of the 10th SFG redeployed to CONUS) was authorized a separate dark green oval (without red border) and flash which contained three diagonal stripes of the German national colors (black, red, gold).

Richard

ArtR · 03-01-2011, 09:42

I just talked with a friend who was an original member of the 10th, July 52 to Jan 56. He stated that they never wore a 7th Army Patch.

I don't know where some of the people writing these books get there information. I think they just pull it out of the air, or they are talking to people who just don't know.

03-01-2011, 12:09

Thanks guys, I'm definitely more inclined to believe all you who've been there and seen it. Thanks for all the replies and information in regards to this. If I come across anymore information I'll post it here. Thanks Richard, ArtR and lksteve. Much appreciated guys.

03-05-2011, 23:51

Just to update everyone with information I've unearthed with the help of a QP who's really great with research... the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab was worn by early groups who would mesh into LRS type of units in Germany. I can provide a link but I just wanted to reinforce what you all have told me and thank you all again for the help. All of you were a great help in trying to figure out the information. Thanks and I really appreciate it.

FILO · 03-06-2011, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Just to update everyone with information I've unearthed with the help of a QP who's really great with research... the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab was worn by early groups who would mesh into LRS type of units in Germany. I can provide a link but I just wanted to reinforce what you all have told me and thank you all again for the help. All of you were a great help in trying to figure out the information. Thanks and I really appreciate it.

I was with VII Corp Pathfinders out of Schwabisch Hall from 1983-1986 and we wore the VII Corp patch with an airborne tab. We used infantry blue flash on our beret and oval on our greens. The unit was attached to 11th CAG for administrative purposes and was disbanded in the late 80s. Although we were called a platoon, we really were the size of a squad with as few 10 and as many as 18. We had two teams: Alpha and Bravo and our leadership element was usually a 1st LT as the PL and a E-6 or E-7 as NCOIC. I was on Alpha the entire time with the unit. Another distinguished member of this board, CSM Perry D, was my first platoon SGT at the unit and could add additional info or background. Hope this helps.

03-06-2011, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FILO

I was with VII Corp Pathfinders out of Schwabisch Hall from 1983-1986 and we wore the VII Corp patch with an airborne tab. We used infantry blue flash on our beret and oval on our greens. The unit was attached to 11th CAG for administrative purposes and was disbanded in the late 80s. Although we were called a platoon, we really were the size of a squad with as few 10 and as many as 18. We had two teams: Alpha and Bravo and our leadership element was usually a 1st LT as the PL and a E-6 or E-7 as NCOIC. I was on Alpha the entire time with the unit. Another distinguished member of this board, CSM Perry D, was my first platoon SGT at the unit and could add additional info or background. Hope this helps.

I really appreciate the information sir. Definitely piecing together history much more thoroughly than any book I've read thus far. I really do appreciate it and it helped a lot.

FILO · 03-10-2011, 09:19

You're very welcome and here is a photo showing part of the platoon in dress greens. Note the VII Corp patch with the airborne tab and the blue flash and oval. We used 11th CAG crest on the beret.

03-10-2011, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FILO

You're very welcome and here is a photo showing part of the platoon in dress greens. Note the VII Corp patch with the airborne tab and the blue flash and oval. We used 11th CAG crest on the beret.

Thats great sir, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to save that picture for future reference.

I attached a picture of the ike just for reference. I have the jump wings as well... maybe one day I'll post up a picture of my mini museum.

Again I really appreciate the help from everyone.

Stras · 03-11-2011, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Thats great sir, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to save that picture for future reference.

I attached a picture of the ike just for reference. I have the jump wings as well... maybe one day I'll post up a picture of my mini museum.

Again I really appreciate the help from everyone.

Very nice looking jacket.

It might be my eyes, but the SPC rank appears to be the Female version, as well as from the Class A's era. I think there was a different rank structure for the WWII/KOREA era timeframe.

ArtR · 03-11-2011, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stras

Very nice looking jacket.

It might be my eyes, but the SPC rank appears to be the Female version, as well as from the Class A's era. I think there was a different rank structure for the WWII/KOREA era timeframe.

The smaller size chevron was worn by male enlisted until some time in the 60's then they went to the large size. The chevrons on the Ike jacket are correct for that time frame.