Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > Area Studies > Middle East

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2014, 21:13   #1
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
Why We Lost: A General's Inside Account of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars

This one is likely to shake some branches - the fallout should be interesting.

Why We Lost: A General's Inside Account of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars
LTG Daniel Bolger

Over a thirty-five-year career, Daniel Bolger rose through the army infantry to become a three-star general, commanding in both theaters of the U.S. campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. He participated in meetings with top-level military and civilian players, where strategy was made and managed. At the same time, he regularly carried a rifle alongside rank-and-file soldiers in combat actions, unusual for a general. Now, as a witness to all levels of military command, Bolger offers a unique assessment of these wars, from 9/11 to the final withdrawal from the region. Writing with hard-won experience and unflinching honesty, Bolger makes the firm case that in Iraq and in Afghanistan, we lost — but we didn’t have to. Intelligence was garbled. Key decision makers were blinded by spreadsheets or theories. And, at the root of our failure, we never really understood our enemy.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Lost-Ge...ghanistan+Wars

Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 06:02   #2
Tree Potato
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NoVA
Posts: 171
Interesting choice for a release date... 11 Nov (Veteran's Day, and after mid-term elections).
Tree Potato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 09:22   #3
JimP
Quiet Professional
 
JimP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: State of confusion
Posts: 1,523
Bolger's the man!! I worked for him when he was COS at 2ID. He is a good man - Honorable.
JimP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 10:57   #4
Tree Potato
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NoVA
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
The problem is not all soldiers are suited to this type of interaction. While it looks good on paper in reality it does not work. They have known this since WWII and that is why the created the OSS and later SF and other types of SOF forces. The standard military is very black and white mentality and many very good soldiers have a hard time with grey areas. SOF soldiers excel in working in the gray areas where the average infantry officer may or may not get it.
Shack.

From the perspective of a minimally trained Air Advisor to the IqAF, we would have made better progress if more of the team had an SF mindset. As it was, the size of the mission greatly exceeded AFSOC's personnel numbers so it was handed to the conventional side; half of our team were non-vols, and of the half that volunteered maybe a quarter "got it." This made functioning in the gray zone very difficult and slow.

Please note this isn't an indictment against anyone serving as an Air Advisor on a MiTT or the CAFTT as training consisted of a couple months a Camp Bullis, far short of anything resembling an SF pipeline, and was inadequate to give any semblance of language proficiency. Nearly everyone gave it their best shot, but those best efforts were based on the experiences and training each person brought with them and varied widely.
Tree Potato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 13:52   #5
Scimitar
Area Commander
 
Scimitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
You also have to be willing to fight dirty. It is not Marcus of Queensbury.
Brush Okie, could you expound on this, I'd be interested in understanding more. Not saying you're wrong at all, just interested in how an SOF unit may imploy tactics that a regular line unit might not think of.

S
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning

"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me

"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim

"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
Scimitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 02:30   #6
Box
Quiet Professional
 
Box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,746
Good stuff but its frustrating that so many senior leaders dont seem to be able to articulate this type of shit until AFTER they retire.

Where are all the guys that are able to find solutions for strategic problems while they are still on active duty? If they are out there NOW why do they always wait until after retirement to say something?
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.

"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
Box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 05:52   #7
Streck-Fu
Area Commander
 
Streck-Fu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach View Post
Good stuff but its frustrating that so many senior leaders dont seem to be able to articulate this type of shit until AFTER they retire.

Where are all the guys that are able to find solutions for strategic problems while they are still on active duty? If they are out there NOW why do they always wait until after retirement to say something?
That is the thought I had. I don't get it.
__________________
Daniel
GM1 USNR (RET)

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Streck-Fu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 07:33   #8
glebo
Quiet Professional
 
glebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hope Mills, NC
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocIllinois View Post
Strategic policy is set by folks very high in the food chain.

Vary from that and the officer career you'd prefer to have is put into jeopardy, and in a high profile way.

Go along to get along.
True, however that is what's ending us up in these "win less" situations.

There was a day we didn't "Go along to get along"...

That's what made us "Special" per sey
__________________
Out of all the places I've been, this is one of'em....
glebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:17   #9
Box
Quiet Professional
 
Box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocIllinois View Post
Strategic policy is set by folks very high in the food chain.

Vary from that and the officer career you'd prefer to have is put into jeopardy, and in a high profile way.

Go along to get along.

I dont disagree with you...

My frustration is that many of these folks want to be seen as visionary leaders with earth shaking discoveries when the fact is, when the lives of their men were at stake they went along to get along.

They 'self served' their own career until they were "safe", THEN they grew balls and spoke out against the boss.

...could have been the greatest guy ever. Finding his conscience after retirement doesn't inspire me.
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.

"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
Box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:32   #10
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
An Incompetent War: Britain in Helmand

Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic, time to break out ye olde Official Secrets Act to once again squealch anything that contradicts the 'official' version of history?

And so it goes...

Richard


Mike Martin, An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict, 1978-2012 (Oxford University Press, 2014)

“Fury Over MOD’s bid to ban Book”, “Captain resigns over Afghanistan book.”

These are just some of British newspaper headlines that preceded the publication of An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict last month. If you don’t know the story, here it is in brief: a former Territorial Army Captain, Dr Mike Martin, was actually commissioned by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) to read for his PhD at King’s College, London. In his final thesis he was to provide them with an independent view of the Afghanistan campaign; that thesis has since become this book.

Whilst the MOD’s official objections concern the alleged use of classified information in the book, one can’t help but presume that this is a mask for the real source of anger, which is just how far Martin goes in criticizing the Ministry’s involvement in Afghanistan. ‘Killing the wrong people’, ‘complicity in corruption’, ‘indirectly funding their enemies’ and ‘sponsoring some of the most despicable people in Helmandi society to rise to the top’ are just a few of the charges being levelled at their door. Perhaps most cutting of all, however, is the underlying suggestion that this was all the result of a conceptual void which did not allow British military leaders to understand the type of conflict they were engaged in.

(Cont'd) http://warontherocks.com/2014/05/an-...in-in-helmand/
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 09:16   #11
glebo
Quiet Professional
 
glebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hope Mills, NC
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocIllinois View Post
As an O who's guile and independence has already raised eyebrows, I couldn't agree more.

Where does the culture change begin, though? I'm thinking it would start with the civilian leadership, since that's the dog that wags the military tail, but that arena needs more individuals with balls plus integrity, too. So... don't know.
True, so...we can probably expect that to never happen...
__________________
Out of all the places I've been, this is one of'em....
glebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 18:22   #12
Scimitar
Area Commander
 
Scimitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach View Post
Good stuff but its frustrating that so many senior leaders dont seem to be able to articulate this type of shit until AFTER they retire.

Where are all the guys that are able to find solutions for strategic problems while they are still on active duty? If they are out there NOW why do they always wait until after retirement to say something?
General Shinseki
__________________
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men! Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for power equal to your tasks."
-- Phillip Brooks

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp"
-- Robert Browning

"Hooah! Pushing thru the shit til Daisies grow, Sir"
-- Me

"Malo mori quam foedari"
"Death before Dishonour"
-- Family Coat-of-Arms Maxim

"Mārohirohi! Kia Kaha!"
"Be strong! Drive-on!"
-- Māori saying
Scimitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 20:19   #13
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Nothing but great word on LTG Bolger, yet why does it seem that so many of these former, retired Commanders or leaders come out swinging once there out. I never heard of LTG Bolger while I was on vacation in Afghanistan, so I can't say anything.

But I feel these Commanders would have better if the would have spoke out more while on active duty. Heck look at Gen Mattis and how out spoken he was.

“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 06:47   #14
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
Even if we're not aware of it, I think a lot of these guys like LTG(R) Bolger do speak out while on AD (within their circles of influence and the accepted protocols of the profession) and are busy "fighting the fight" from within. Once they retire and have the time to reflect both personally and professionally, they seem to want to seek a broader audience, both within and outside their respective branch of service and outside of the various branches of the services themselves, and pass on their views and lessons learned to a much greater audience, including John Q Public, our political leadership, etc. Books like LTG(R) Bolger's are a proven way to do that.

One thing I learned as a commander, your focus on preparing and leading your unit to carry out its assigned missions forces your 'world-view' to become necessarily self-limiting and, therefore, limited, and it isn't until months or even years after relinquishing command that you become far enough removed to realize it, and can then reflect back with a deeper sort of "couldawouldashoulda" self-assessment that re-establishes that broader sense of context and greater understanding. Anectdotal, but my experiences and MOO.

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading LTG(R) Bolger's reflections.

Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 10:41   #15
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Even if we're not aware of it, I think a lot of these guys like LTG(R) Bolger do speak out while on AD (within their circles of influence and the accepted protocols of the profession) and are busy "fighting the fight" from within. Once they retire and have the time to reflect both personally and professionally, they seem to want to seek a broader audience, both within and outside their respective branch of service and outside of the various branches of the services themselves, and pass on their views and lessons learned to a much greater audience, including John Q Public, our political leadership, etc. Books like LTG(R) Bolger's are a proven way to do that.

One thing I learned as a commander, your focus on preparing and leading your unit to carry out its assigned missions forces your 'world-view' to become necessarily self-limiting and, therefore, limited, and it isn't until months or even years after relinquishing command that you become far enough removed to realize it, and can then reflect back with a deeper sort of "couldawouldashoulda" self-assessment that re-establishes that broader sense of context and greater understanding. Anectdotal, but my experiences and MOO.

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading LTG(R) Bolger's reflections.

Richard
It should be a good book.
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:26.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies